*** Updated to add spring break Data*** New Data, FP+ impacting wait times, discuss

[Queen2PrincessG]

No, there's nothing rude about this statement at all.

As for how I tour that makes me not like FP+? Well, let's see...last March, during spring break season, we were able to get FPs for Buzz, Ariel, Space, Thunder, Dumbo. Of those, the only one we'd usually get a second FP for is Buzz, which we never saw run out of FPs. There was no "hyper running around the park" required, nor did we employ a FP runner. We had an infant at the time, and I was exclusively pumping (aka frequent breaks of 20-25 mins required), so our pace was very relaxed. We would get FPs for the land we were in and do other attractions in the area while we waited for the window to open. No trying to "mash everything in," as your post implies is required.

Now with only 3 FPs, we have to choose whether we're going to spend more time apart as a family (so that DH and I can both ride headliners using SB and RS, while keeping FP+ for rides for DD), or being together longer, but having a toddler in longer lines for more of the day. Said toddler is not mobile (i.e.not crawling, not standing, not walking) as she has delays, so DH and I would have to carry her in line. The idea of carrying her, even in a carrier, at the weight she is now for 45+ mins is not appealing. I wouldn't be physically able to do it by myself. I did not have such concerns with legacy FP.

We also like to park hop. One morning last March we got to DHS at rope drop, rode what we wanted to by noon. I think we ended up getting 1 FP for TSMM, and 2 for Star Tours. Then it was back to the resort for lunch. Then we went to AK in the afternoon, got FPs for Expedition Everest, Dinosaur and KS. That's no longer possible.



You don't currently have to plan everything in one shot, no....because 50% of guests can't access the system until they get to the park, and are limited to the kiosks even once they do. What happens to that availability when everyone, including offsite, has the ability to prebook, which it seems pretty clear is going to happen?

Im going to word this careful because I don't want to offend you. Your situation isn't "the norm". Most toddlers are walking and able to ride, and walk around. God bless you i cant imagine. Wouldn't you be able to get and use the new version of the GAC card? Also one of your issues if that you cant get a 2nd FP for the same ride/ To me that's not an issue and falls under the " now things are fair" because what about the person who didn't get 1 FP for the ride? you're asking for 2?

you can park hop. When you choose pick 2 that you want then third whatever. When you go to your new park you can open the app and switch the third for what is available at the new park.

 

[KatieCharlotte]

Does this mean that you will not return? I'm truly curious about this. It goes to a conversation I was having on here with some fellow DISers the other day.

I'm also curious why those who are so dissatisfied by this change that they say they'll curtail their Disney vacationing keep coming back to an unofficial Disney board to discuss.

Not saying that you are - just asking the question - but if I was truly DONE with Disney because of this, I'd plan other vacations in its place and certainly bail on DISboards. But everyone is different, of course...

I am on the Disboards because we will be at MK and Islands of Adventure in a couple weeks. (And I work on the computer and need lots of breaks, obviously. ) We cut back the number of Disney days. We are not done with Disney but FP+ is one factor in evaluating the amount of money and time we are willing to spend at Disney.

 

[JimmyV]

I think we more or less agree. The new system benefits the masses, which does not include you or me. That's not something for you to be excited about, but I don't fault Disney for doing it. It's the "right" business move.

We shall see. Remember, in the cupcake parable, at first there were a few people waiting to buy out the entire inventory of cupcakes. I never waited more a few minutes to place my order. 10 people could buy 60 cupcakes. Now, with the one-per-person limitation, I have to wait in a very long, single file line to buy my one cupcake. I get exasperated and I stop going to the bakery. And so do 39 other people. Soon, there are only 20 people lining up for cupcakes and the bakery relaxes the limitation and these 20 people buy up all 60 cupcakes. At no point in time did the bakery make (or lose) any money. Its sales were static and so were its profits. But it succeeded in frustrating, and thus losing 40 loyal customers, which, in the long run, isn’t good.

Disney doesn’t earn a single extra penny from redistributing Fast Passes. So it is difficult to see how this is good business. If it starts to monetize the system and profit from it, that would change. But simply taking three Fast Passes away from me and leveling the playing field by handing them to the people who like to sleep in doesn’t result in any extra revenue that I can discern.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I am on the Disboards because we will be at MK and Islands of Adventure in a couple weeks. (And I work on the computer and need lots of breaks, obviously. ) We cut back the number of Disney days. We are not done with Disney but FP+ is one factor in evaluating the amount of money and time we are willing to spend at Disney.

Gotcha' - thanks for answering! Makes total sense to me.

 

[Queen2PrincessG]

[QUOTE Last time, we gave away the kids' fastpasses to BTMRR because both had motion issues that day. They say they won't ever ride it, so none of us have FP+ for it, but what if they change their minds when they see it running? Do I make DH load the app on his smartphone and hope that we have no technology issues and there is availability last-minute on spring break and cancel another planned FP+?[/QUOTE]

Why wouldn't you download it before you go? There is wifi in the park even if your phone misses up you can go to a kiosk and have it changed.

 

[Queen2PrincessG]

We shall see. Remember, in the cupcake parable, at first there were a few people waiting to buy out the entire inventory of cupcakes. I never waited more a few minutes to place my order. 10 people could buy 60 cupcakes. Now, with the one-per-person limitation, I have to wait in a very long, single file line to buy my one cupcake. I get exasperated and I stop going to the bakery. And so do 39 other people. Soon, there are only 20 people lining up for cupcakes and the bakery relaxes the limitation and these 20 people buy up all 60 cupcakes. At no point in time did the bakery make (or lose) any money. Its sales were static and so were its profits. But it succeeded in frustrating, and thus losing 40 loyal customers, which, in the long run, isn’t good.

Disney doesn’t earn a single extra penny from redistributing Fast Passes. So it is difficult to see how this is good business. If it starts to monetize the system and profit from it, that would change. But simply taking three Fast Passes away from me and leveling the playing field by handing them to the people who like to sleep in doesn’t result in any extra revenue that I can discern.

HAHA REALLY! They earn so much more. You are in the park for X- amount of time longer because you aren't going from ride to ride to ride anymore . You are bound to buy something while you are waiting. ITS ALWAYS about the money for The Mouse.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Off-topic, but seriously impressed by the exclusive pumping. That takes major dedication. I only had to for three weeks before DS could latch and that was not easy.

lol, thanks It definitely sucked...TBH, I'm entirely glad I'm done with it (lasted about a year), and I doubt I will ever do it again

I keep getting pulled back into FP+ threads because I hate this idea that only "superuser" "run all over the park" "ride the headliners seven times" selfish "I don't want to wait" people don't like FP+. We all have different family circumstances and different ways of touring.

I totally agree

 

[MrInfinity]

We shall see. Remember, in the cupcake parable, at first there were a few people waiting to buy out the entire inventory of cupcakes. I never waited more a few minutes to place my order. 10 people could buy 60 cupcakes. Now, with the one-per-person limitation, I have to wait in a very long, single file line to buy my one cupcake. I get exasperated and I stop going to the bakery. And so do 39 other people. Soon, there are only 20 people lining up for cupcakes and the bakery relaxes the limitation and these 20 people buy up all 60 cupcakes. At no point in time did the bakery make (or lose) any money. Its sales were static and so were its profits. But it succeeded in frustrating, and thus losing 40 loyal customers, which, in the long run, isn’t good.

Disney doesn’t earn a single extra penny from redistributing Fast Passes. So it is difficult to see how this is good business. If it starts to monetize the system and profit from it, that would change. But simply taking three Fast Passes away from me and leveling the playing field by handing them to the people who like to sleep in doesn’t result in any extra revenue that I can discern.

Ah... but Disney does earn more. Because in your example you're paying per cupcake. (per FP). You have to consider where you do not pay per cupcake... you pay per visit to the bakery and take 10 of the 60, the bakery charges 6 admissions. Now they handle 60 guests and give them one cupcake each, and they get 60 admissions, and they sell a more profitable cup of coffee to each guest (the cupcake was just a loss-leader to entice the guests to come - the coffee is where they make their money). Even if the original 10 disappear, they've still got 50 others, and are making more money off of them than they did the guy who bought 10 cupcakes and no coffee.

 

[2Tiggies]

HAHA REALLY! They earn so much more. You are in the park for X- amount of time longer because you aren't going from ride to ride to ride anymore . You are bound to buy something while you are waiting. ITS ALWAYS about the money for The Mouse.

I don't have any stats to say this is not true in any cases but it's not true for me. I don't have more spending money because I am not on rides so the budget I have is the budget I have to stick to. I don't buy things because I'm bored. I go find something to do and in this case, it is very likely that I will be leaving the park to do whatever that is. It may involve sitting at the pool at our resort but I will be filling my resort mug with the included soda that comes with the deal as I have always done. I take very little spending money with me because buying things is not that important to me. My daughter loves shopping and spending but she has requested an afternoon at the mall to buy her souvenirs and whatever else she wants to blow her money on.

In fact, when I look at our park plans thus far, we are spending less time in the parks than we ever have before because we are going in to do our rides with our 3 FP's and then going to do something else. Will we still have a great time? Oh you bet! But I'm not sticking around in a place if there is nothing I feel like doing.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Im going to word this careful because I don't want to offend you. Your situation isn't "the norm". Most toddlers are walking and able to ride, and walk around. God bless you i cant imagine.

I'm not offended. I didn't claim my situation was the norm. You asked about my personal situation, and that's how I responded.

Wouldn't you be able to get and use the new version of the GAC card?

Possibly. Our daughter is not disabled, just delayed...so considering you don't get GAC cards for infants with her developmental level, it doesn't really cross my mind to get something that is for disabled people for her.

Also one of your issues if that you cant get a 2nd FP for the same ride/ To me that's not an issue and falls under the " now things are fair" because what about the person who didn't get 1 FP for the ride? you're asking for 2?

The ride I mentioned getting 2 FPs for was Buzz. A ride that we never saw run out of FPs. So since FPs were still available, who did we take a FP away from?

you can park hop. When you choose pick 2 that you want then third whatever. When you go to your new park you can open the app and switch the third for what is available at the new park.

Since when has this been the case? AFAIK, all 3 FP+s must be for the same park. I've seen one person report here that they were able to park hop how you describe, but no one has reported being able to replicate that (and quite a few have reported trying, but not being able to).

 

[WillAustin]

Even if the original 10 disappear, they've still got 50 others, and are making more money off of them than they did the guy who bought 10 cupcakes and no coffee.

I'm still not sold on the belief that FP+ makes anything significantly better for the average guest or that the average guest generally spends more than people who used more than 3 FPs in a day.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

I didn't say everyone did, of course. But on this and other threads some certainly have, and I was curious why they'd return to DIS if that was the case.

Also, to the good conversation I had the other day on this subject, I think that despite the vocal dissatisfaction of many here and elsewhere, I am still not certain it will impact Disney's bottom line in any appreciable (or even noticeable) way -- I think most (not all) of these people will still spend a chunk of their vacation dollars with Disney. Maybe less, but likely more than made up for by the increased business they must clearly expect from instituting FP+ and MDE. Just my take.

Yes, this year because my trips are planned far in advance. We see how the summer goes with FP+

Also one of your issues if that you cant get a 2nd FP for the same ride/ To me that's not an issue and falls under the " now things are fair" because what about the person who didn't get 1 FP for the ride? you're asking for 2?

you can park hop. When you choose pick 2 that you want then third whatever. When you go to your new park you can open the app and switch the third for what is available at the new park.

Why wouldn't I want 2 for a ride I love? Every single ticket holder could get 2 if they wanted how is that unfair? Now I am limited to picking between two things I love?

HAHA REALLY! They earn so much more. You are in the park for X- amount of time longer because you aren't going from ride to ride to ride anymore . You are bound to buy something while you are waiting. ITS ALWAYS about the money for The Mouse.

You aren't buying anything waiting in longer SB lines or doing your 3 rides and then out the park and finishing earlier.

 

[JimmyV]

HAHA REALLY! They earn so much more. You are in the park for X- amount of time longer because you aren't going from ride to ride to ride anymore . You are bound to buy something while you are waiting. ITS ALWAYS about the money for The Mouse.

First...."HAHA REALLY"??? Are you, like, in kindergaten?

Second...Unlike many of the "I haven't been yet, but I know that I will (love/hate) it" crowd, we have been under the new regime. I track my spending to the penny. Other than eating at one extra Signature restaurant than we would normally eat at which had to do with a celebration and not any change to the FP system, we did not spend one extra dime. We weren't in any park "X-amount of time longer". We were in the park the same amount of time, but were in lines longer. Until they set up a beer cart in the ride queues, there is no way that I can spend more money waiting in lines than I did out of lines. So, no, we were not bound to buy anything. And didn't.

I don't have any stats to say this is not true in any cases but it's not true for me. I don't have more spending money because I am not on rides so the budget I have is the budget I have to stick to. I don't buy things because I'm bored. I go find something to do and in this case, it is very likely that I will be leaving the park to do whatever that is. It may involve sitting at the pool at our resort but I will be filling my resort mug with the included soda that comes with the deal as I have always done. I take very little spending money with me because buying things is not that important to me. My daughter loves shopping and spending but she has requested an afternoon at the mall to buy her souvenirs and whatever else she wants to blow her money on.

In fact, when I look at our park plans thus far, we are spending less time in the parks than we ever have before because we are going in to do our rides with our 3 FP's and then going to do something else. Will we still have a great time? Oh you bet! But I'm not sticking around in a place if there is nothing I feel like doing.

Recognizing that this is a statistically insignificant sample size, Disney is now Oh-For-Two as far as 2Tiggies and I are concerned.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Yes, this year because my trips are planned far in advance. We see how the summer goes with FP+

Hopefully they'll make some changes that will make it more palatable to more of us.

 

[Queen2PrincessG]

Yes, this year because my trips are planned far in advance. We see how the summer goes with FP+


Why wouldn't I want 2 for a ride I love? Every single ticket holder could get 2 if they wanted how is that unfair? Now I am limited to picking between two things I love? As my girl Ursala says, "life is full of tough choices..." If you want to ride it twice you will have to wait in standby. no one is saying you can't



You aren't buying anything waiting in longer SB lines or doing your 3 rides and then out the park and finishing earlier. Yes, many people are. You have more wait time between the fastpasses you aren't standing in line then, are you?

Bolded

 

[WillAustin]

You aren't buying anything waiting in longer SB lines or doing your 3 rides and then out the park and finishing earlier.

This is a valid plan for a lot of people, especially those who have APs or are local.

 

[Queen2PrincessG]

First...."HAHA REALLY"??? Are you, like, in kindergaten?

Second...Unlike many of the "I haven't been yet, but I know that I will (love/hate) it" crowd, we have been under the new regime. I track my spending to the penny. Other than eating at one extra Signature restaurant than we would normally eat at which had to do with a celebration and not any change to the FP system, we did not spend one extra dime. We weren't in any park "X-amount of time longer". We were in the park the same amount of time, but were in lines longer. Until they set up a beer cart in the ride queues, there is no way that I can spend more money waiting in lines than I did out of lines. So, no, we were not bound to buy anything. And didn't.


Recognizing that this is a statistically insignificant sample size, Disney is now Oh-For-Two as far as 2Tiggies and I are concerned.

HAHA Really? I have been twice with FP+. No complaints other than the amount we are given and even that isn't that big a deal.
Other than that one meal. You may not be typical but for people who are going to stay in the park the $$$ amount will go up.

 

[JimmyV]

You have more wait time between the fastpasses you aren't standing in line then, are you? Bolded

This is emphatically not true. Under the old system, you had two hour gaps between most of your FPs. You might have had one for 10:00, 1:30, 4:00 and 7:00. Now, you can go back-to-back-to-back and I suspect that many are. All of our FPs were for 1:00, 2:00 and 3:00. Or close to it. Little to no down time between FP rides at all.

 

[2Tiggies]

HAHA Really? I have been twice with FP+. No complaints other than the amount we are given and even that isn't that big a deal.
Other than that one meal. You may not be typical but for people who are going to stay in the park the $$$ amount will go up.

First off, I really am pleased that it works for you (no sarcasm in here, I'm being sincere).

Most people who go on vacation have a vacation budget. So say they have one day for each park and have $200 to spend. Long waits on day one might drive them to the gift shop if they are doing what you believe they are and that may well be the case. But if they aimed to spend $50 a day and spent $100 on day one, they will only spend less over the next three days. I don't personally know anyone who spends out of their 'daily bread' money on vacation. As far as I have seen, most people, regardless of their destination, have a separate vacation account for savings and when it's gone, it's gone. I would love to contact my payroll office on Disney's free in-park wifi and ask them to give me a little more money so that I can pass the time in a gift shop instead of in line but the bottom line is, most people save very carefully for their vacation and don't have an enormous margin for error with spends.

 

[OtherScott]

Disney is trying to provide the maximum amount of today's guests with as enjoyable an experience as possible while building toward what it believes is its future success.

We argue about whether 3 pre-books are better than unlimited same-day-pulls, and whether or not Disney should model or compete head on with other theme parks. Disney knows more about why you love them than you do. And they know this about all of their guests, across every conceivable ethnic, national and socioeconomic demographic.

Disney knows more about your kids than you do, and knows that in a few short years they'll be the ones deciding where to take their kids. Disney knows why you come, why you'll eventually choose "competing" venues (which they consider as "complimentary") and why you'll come back.

They know how to connect to you through various platforms and emerging technologies. They have created strategic partnerships that build brand loyalty.

The only thing Disney desires more than loyal customers is a larger number of loyal customers. If their plans to achieve the latter leaves some less than satisfied, that's the unfortunate price that must be paid. It isn't personal, except for you.

Disney has always planned beyond a horizon that you aren't even aware exists. Disney is playing chess and we're talking about checkers.

*And by you, I don't mean you. I mean the collective of the 100s of millions who make pilgrimage to the parks around the world annually, take cruises and buy movies and videos and merchandise.