Breaks My Heart

[NAB]

A punishment should not be everything. Pick one thing and stick to that. If you take everything away from them they will just do it anyway. What else do they have to lose. She is only 11 , I can guarantee that she will lie again. It would have to be something really big , but if it is only because she lied. You are going to have a rough teenage years. People are kidding themselves if they think they don't lie. You never lied when you were young?

I'm sorry that is what kids do so they don't get in trouble...it is normal if though you think this would stop it forever. I went to parenting class and this is what they said. Plus never give a punishment that punishes you and this one sure is. But it is your child and you can only do what you have to do. But if you have to come on here and ask you know it is not right or maybe you want people to say good job at being strict.

That is a lot of money to lose. It sounds like you will make her the black sheep if she goes on the cruise , it can still be a family vacation can't it. It doesn't have to be a sad time the whole time.

 

[disney0210]

A punishment should not be everything. Pick one thing and stick to that. If you take everything away from them they will just do it anyway. What else do they have to lose. She is only 11 , I can guarantee that she will lie again. It would have to be something really big , but if it is only because she lied. You are going to have a rough teenage years. People are kidding themselves if they think they don't lie. You never lied when you were young?

I'm sorry that is what kids do so they don't get in trouble...it is normal if though you think this would stop it forever. I went to parenting class and this is what they said. Plus never give a punishment that punishes you and this one sure is. But it is your child and you can only do what you have to do. But if you have to come on here and ask you know it is not right or maybe you want people to say good job at being strict.

I did not ask for advice. Please reread my post. I don't classify myself as strict either. I only tell you that because you do not know me. You really think what matters to me is being given a pat on the back by people who do not know me, my family, or the situation? If you do, you are sorely mistaken.

Thanks to all who gave their input. I have had my question about the cancellation answered so that should be it.

 

[NAB]

I did not ask for advice. Please reread my post. I don't classify myself as strict either. I only tell you that because you do not know me. You really think what matters to me is being given a pat on the back by people who do not know me, my family, or the situation? If you do, you are sorely mistaken.

Thanks to all who gave their input. I have had my question about the cancellation answered so that should be it.

You brought up the punishments. And why she wasn't going. Sorry if you do not like what I said you do not have to take the advice. But I have read the whole thread. It is just sad to me.

So to answer your question. You will lose the all the money. And the rest of you can still go.

 

[SuperDry]

If you cancel a passenger within the 100% penalty deadline, you do indeed lose all of the fare, but will get a refund on port charges and some nominal amount of tax (like $50) that's built into the fare. As fa as I know, you can do this at any time, up to and including when you get to the port at check-in. Removing passengers does not affect the remaining passengers' ability to sail, as long as you don't cancel the primary passenger in each cabin. I hope your situation works out as to what's best for your family, regardless of the decision you make.

 

[bumbershoot]

I don't think she's having a hard time with the baby, she loves to take care of the baby and very often offers to feed him or change his diaper.

I don't want to leave her. But at the same time, I know adults who lie or cheat or steal or do bad things, didn't just start then - they started when they were younger.

Aaarrrggghhh! If I didn't care about her, this would be too easy. Just forget it and move on.

Oh, I bet she's having some sort of hard time. 11 years old and having a brand new baby in the house is pretty darned huge.

In the case of my husband, drastic overreactions to totally innocent lies caused him to START to truly lie. Until he was around 38 his family still expected him to lie and they had a very hard time believing him. Because of an incident when he was a kid.

I am truly amazed that without knowing anything about the family or situation so many of you know this mom is doing the wrong thing

People are just offering their thoughts. The question was answered; they won't get anything back. And the mom, at least, won't enjoy the cruise. Which, the mom said, they are only taking because of the daughter.


11 is hard (is there anything going on at school or with her friends, by the way?) and having a new baby in the house is hard. Combined....

 

[gotomu212]

Wow, my heart goes out to you. It's so difficult to parent, and discipline is one of the hardest issues to deal with.

I think a lot of people have added some good advice so I'll only add that a lot times lying is a developmental stage that kids have to pass through. It's not necessarily about dishonesty but about control, or privacy, or grasping differ emotions/complexities of the real world. It's something that we needs to be addressed and something that they need to take responsibility for, but it doesn't necessarily mean they will grow up to be dishonest. (So, so hard for me to keep that perspective with my parenting and thought it might be another helpful thought).

The most important part is that you're clearly invested and involved and that's what will make the biggest impact for your children. Good luck

 

[geoly1]

Thank you for sharing your story. I understand completely what you are going through. Be strong !

 

[tbergan]

What about having her volunteer at a local shelter and do community service for a week after school. That can even happen after the cruise. There's nothing like her seeing reality of what can happen base on the choices you make.

 

[calimom951]

I have no idea what the answer to your question is. I completely understand what you are going through. I have an 11 year old daughter myself. It's so hard being a parent nowadays. We are struggling to raise hard working, honest and productive young people. All the while we are providing the high priced toys (ipads & iphones) and expensive vacations. Sometimes to children who misbehave or we feel don't deserve them. May you find piece and comfort in whatever you decide is best.

 

[Ravenne]

I think you have your original question answered so I don't have anything else to add to that. I just wanted to give you a virtual hug and to also thank you for being a responsible parent, no matter how tough it is. Being a parent is never easy and neither are the decisions that comes with it. It's easy to be an arm chair parent but parenting is not something that can be experienced vicariously. You know your child best. I don't doubt for a minute that to even have consider what you're considering is daunting, and heart breaking. Do what's right for you and your family. From one parent to another, I just want to say, good luck with your decision, and I hope it works out well. Hang in there.

 

[kos1228]

.

 

[renesmom]

I think you not allowing her to go on the cruise will punish you more than her. You will miss her and will not enjoy your vacation.

You are a great mom

 

[cgolf]

To the OP, good luck with your decision, parenting is so tough. Only you know how your child will react to either option, so go with your gut on what you feel will set her up for better behavior in the future. Whatever you decide have a great cruise, knowing whatever decision you made you did it in the best interests of your daughter's future.

cgolf

 

[JnDRader]

Hi everyone,

We are 11 days away from the Dream cruise to the Bahamas. It is me, DH, DD11 and our new 4-month old baby.

My question is this - if I needed to cancel DD11 from the trip, will I lose 100% of what I paid for her? Am I allowed to roll that over to at least credit for purchases in the ship? Will they even allow just 3 of us to board if there are 4 originally planned to go on the cruise? If I lose what I paid for her, it's not the end of the world, I just didn't want it to go to complete waste.

Not to go so much into details, but my DD11 lied straight to our faces (the offence was equally disappointing, but lying about it on top of that made it so much worse) and I am now contemplating on not taking her with us. As a parent who works for, and wants to give the best to, her children, it will break my heart to do this, but taking away a cellphone or internet for a week or even a month can only affect her so much. She has a class ski trip on Tuesday that she is now not going to attend because of this, but I don't know if missing a ski trip is enough of a lesson for her to remember not to do this ever again.

As the father of an 11yo daughter I can feel your pain. We have come close to leaving her behind on vacations before as punishment but could never bring ourselves to do it because honestly we'd be miserable without her. As others have said cancelling a school trip is probably enough. And yes, I'd yank the phone in a heartbeat and ground her for good measure.

On the bright side, it can get better. Our daughter's never been particularly bad, just has a nasty habit of talking back . Pushes her younger brother's buttons on purpose too. But over the last couple of months she's made huge strides in both areas. She's growing up.

Best of luck!

 

[travln1234]

Good luck in your decision. I've dealt with the lying issues, too. It's not fun, nor easy.

A suggestion: what if she went with you on the cruise, but let there be consequences. No souvenirs, no dessert, have her write lines instead of attend shows or club activities (or send her there if she doesn't like going, etc.). Kids loathe writing the same thing over and over. Something as simple as "I will not lie." written repeatedly is far worse than being forced to write an essay. Basically, she'd be on the ship to be with family and not much more. Plus, if she's with your family while you're gone, you can't be 100% sure that she's not using electronics or a phone. You can definitely be sure of that if she's with you on the cruise.

Good luck in your decision. As a parent, only you know what's best for your family. i hope you enjoy your cruise!

 

[OrangeCountyCommuter]

This would be an interesting case to follow for years. Especially if she gets left behind. That is a tough call even not knowing what happened. I'd fear the feelings being so hurt that it does longer term damage but if what she did is really bad and you'd rather have her mad at you then repeating the offense then I guess the choice is easy. I also think if your family frequently goes on trips missing this one to make a point May be worth it. How about take her with but she has to spend 2-3 days in the storeroom? Sorry. I know you didn't ask for parenting advice. Good luck in whatever you do.

You don't find post like this a veiled threat telling the mom " you are screwing up your child's entire life". Hmm ..

Seems like it is saying "you are wrong" to me

 

[disney0210]

Today, DH and I have decided we are going to teach the lessons of forgiveness, compassion, second (or third) chances, and how lying hurts the people you love. She will go on the trip with us, but excursion is cancelled, and she will not be going on the school ski trip. We will use the time at Disney to reconnect and bond as a family, after all the craziness we've gone through in the last year trying to adjust to a new baby.

I asked her why she did it, and she said she didn't want to get in trouble for doing the first offence, and so she tried to cover it up and blame someone else for it. Again, I told her, her lying to us was worse than what she was trying to cover up.

I told DH, it's like with him and me as husband and wife for example. We know not to lie to each other no matter how small the lie is, because we both know it's not going to be about the lie, but that we lie. We know lying will hurt the other person so we don't do it. Same with DD, but the difference is that we are adults and know we will hurt the other if we do it, and DD on the other hand, is still a child. Did she know she was gonna hurt us the way she did by lying? Probably not. So we told her. So she knew. We told her exactly how it hurt us. She asked what she can do for us to trust her again. I said unfortunately, it's not like a physical injury that you just put bandaid on and it's gone in a few days. She's going to have to work at it and I told her she's a smart and a good girl and will figure it out. I reminded her never to be afraid to come clean with us, and that when she is faced with a dilemma like this again, to remember that she got into deeper doodoo (didn't actually say doodoo) by lying. I reminded her that we loved her, and that even though we are still upset and angry, we choose to forgive her.

And before someone says that I want a pat on the back, I want to say thank you for all the advice (though unsolicited) that people gave. I did not ask for any but I always try to keep an open mind, and I know that at the end of the day, I will have to do what I think is right, and what I think will work for our situation.

I'm stopping at 2 kids.

You all have a great week ahead!

 

[wallawallakids]

Have you thought about having her "work it off" the offense in combination with taking away the electronics? We give a list of "jobs" as punishment. Like cleaning the basement, cleaning the cars, etc. I find that taking things away doesn't always work but if they know that doing something wrong may lead to work, they are more apt to stick to it. (I might just have lazy kids though ) They don't like having to do manual labor. They grumble, but they get the point. (Plus it is a Saturday where they are not playing with friends because they have to work)

I know you do not want advise and you have had your question answered so I won't try to say anything about that. However, not one of my 4 children is perfect. They have all lied before. I have struggled with that in the past as well. I even went so far as to take my oldest to the priest once after she lied and made her sit down with him and tell him what she did. But you know what, that wasn't the last time I have ever caught her! And I am going to bet, that whatever you do as a punishment this time, may still not prevent it from happening again with your DD.

Only you can decide how best to parent her, and you will come up with what is best for you, and her. And I know you will be thinking long and hard about what to do.

Parenting is hard. It is much easier when they are little and only need you to feed and change them. Every year they get older, it gets harder. The days are long, but the years are short and I try to remember that while I am parenting them. I also try to put things in perspective, which is very hard when I am in the throws of things. However, my children are well behaved 99% of the time. Praising them when they are good, I find, gives us more returns than punishing them when they are wrong. Good luck.

ETA: Oops. We posted the same time. So ignore my post! Sounds like it is all figured out. Have a great cruise.

 

[wxman0]

How about take her with but she has to spend 2-3 days in the storeroom.

Haha oops.... stupid autocorrect, 2-3 days in the stateroom not the storeroom. Don't want to lock her up in a closet on the ship.

 

[ahain]

Today, DH and I have decided we are going to teach the lessons of forgiveness, compassion, second (or third) chances, and how lying hurts the people you love. She will go on the trip with us, but excursion is cancelled, and she will not be going on the school ski trip. We will use the time at Disney to reconnect and bond as a family, after all the craziness we've gone through in the last year trying to adjust to a new baby.

I asked her why she did it, and she said she didn't want to get in trouble for doing the first offence, and so she tried to cover it up and blame someone else for it. Again, I told her, her lying to us was worse than what she was trying to cover up.

I told DH, it's like with him and me as husband and wife for example. We know not to lie to each other no matter how small the lie is, because we both know it's not going to be about the lie, but that we lie. We know lying will hurt the other person so we don't do it. Same with DD, but the difference is that we are adults and know we will hurt the other if we do it, and DD on the other hand, is still a child. Did she know she was gonna hurt us the way she did by lying? Probably not. So we told her. So she knew. We told her exactly how it hurt us. She asked what she can do for us to trust her again. I said unfortunately, it's not like a physical injury that you just put bandaid on and it's gone in a few days. She's going to have to work at it and I told her she's a smart and a good girl and will figure it out. I reminded her never to be afraid to come clean with us, and that when she is faced with a dilemma like this again, to remember that she got into deeper doodoo (didn't actually say doodoo) by lying. I reminded her that we loved her, and that even though we are still upset and angry, we choose to forgive her.

And before someone says that I want a pat on the back, I want to say thank you for all the advice (though unsolicited) that people gave. I did not ask for any but I always try to keep an open mind, and I know that at the end of the day, I will have to do what I think is right, and what I think will work for our situation.

I'm stopping at 2 kids.

You all have a great week ahead!

I can certainly take a lesson from you to bear in mind when I'm dealing with my 16yo DD. Too often, I tend to react too quickly and with (much) emotion when she behaves inappropriately. Choosing instead to focus on "lessons of forgiveness, compassion, second (or third) chances, and how lying hurts the people you love" sounds like a wonderful resolution - one that I'm certain she will remember into her adulthood and as she encounters & deals with challenges with her own children one day. Not knowing the whole story of your family dynamics, I can't help but believe that this will strengthen your family bonds and that you will have a wonderful vacation, enjoying your time together. Thank you for sharing.