All FP machines to be removed from Animal Kingdom by next week and....

[rebbyparker]

Oh I have no doubt they are fully committed to FP+ and will sell it accordingly. I do not think that Disney is committed to convincing everyone that Rope Drop is the way to tour. I think it would be a hard sell to get people who up until now have avoided RD to all of a sudden change their touring and become RDs. That's my point.

They may not have a choice. When they get online to book their FP+'s, it better be the very second it opens or they may end up with the early morning FP+ selections.

 

[amylevan]

Can I turn this quote around and say- "The fact that the system is worse for you doesn't mean that it is not fair"?

It's just changing the time you have to get in line for those desired fast passes. Additionally, now you probably can't use FP to ride Soarin' three times in a day. Instead those second two rides on Soarin' will go to someone else who is booking at 60 days in advance. Now instead of your family riding Soarin 3x, 3 families ride Soarin' once.

Is that more fair? I don't know and I don't really think any system is "more fair" than the other; however, if someone wanted to make an argument that it is more fair I could be persuaded

Forget riding Soarin 3x....we went from the ability to get a FP for Soaring and TT to having to choose between them. Everyone had equal opportunity to get those 2 before, fair. Now, we have to choose. Still fair, but a lot less user friendly.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

Forget riding Soarin 3x....we went from the ability to get a FP for Soaring and TT to having to choose between them. Everyone had equal opportunity to get those 2 before, fair. Now, we have to choose. Still fair, but a lot less user friendly.

I don't think tiering is fair, necessarily, but limiting everyone to one FP+ per ride per day is inherently more fair.

 

[wisblue]

You're making a lot of assumptions that people will do their homework before going on a vacation. Most of these things are common knowledge on the boards; however, they are not common knowledge to the average park goer. It take a lot for people to decide to get in line for a bus at 7:30 to get to a 9:00 park opening.

I understand your concerns I just don't see the majority of guests all of a sudden becoming super efficient tourers. I think it is more likely that RD becomes less crowded as people say "well we don't have to go at RD anymore because we have these three rides already booked in advance."

We will have to see how things play out- the masses at WDW haven't adopted RD and efficient Touring Plans yet, we will see if FP+ is what makes them change their ways.

A few weeks ago I quoted from a guide that I had from 1993 that says that the most important things for a successful WDW vacation are (1) learning how the rides work and what you want to do, (2) visiting at a less busy time, and (3) arriving at the park early.

And yet, without fail, as we leave a park at 1 PM on a busy holiday the gates are jammed with people trying to get into the park and, as they enter, they stop and look at their maps to see how to get to something.

I am confident that human nature is a lot more powerful than Disney marketing. In fact, the tendency to get to the park early to get standby rides could be offset by people who feel entitled to sleep in because they have PM FP reservations. It will be interesting to see how it plays out when everything is fully implemented.

The same goes for people making FP+ reservations 60 days out. My observation is that a majority of people are poor planners and natural procrastinators, even for things that are a lot more critical than making theme park ride reservations.

 

[bcrook]

Oh I have no doubt they are fully committed to FP+ and will sell it accordingly. I do not think that Disney is committed to convincing everyone that Rope Drop is the way to tour. I think it would be a hard sell to get people who up until now have avoided RD to all of a sudden change their touring and become RDs. That's my point.

I agree 100%. Disney is not going to do that. But clsteve's point is the dynamics might force it that way.

1. more people assigned the early shift with their FP+ (somebody has to get them).
2. with only 3 FP+, more people will be motivated to make it to RD to get in a few extra headliners.

Disney is definitely trying to even out the crowds more.

Besides rope drop losing its value. I also think the crowd calendars will be leveled out. Disney is able read those "best park" calendars too. Now with FP+, the crowds might be more evenly distributed daily from park to park daily.

I think late nights in the summer might still be a good time. The 12:00 am close on a non EMH night at MK is the best thing in all WDW. I would be willing to bet that this 10:00pm -12:00am is still great.

 

[amylevan]

I dont understand how the old system was unfair. Everyone played by the same rules. Get FP. When the appropriate time had passed, get another one if you so desire. You want multiple FP, get there early.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

I dont understand how the old system was unfair. Everyone played by the same rules. Get FP. When the appropriate time had passed, get another one if you so desire. You want multiple FP, get there early.

That's great, unless you have a medically fragile child who can't get to the parks early, or young kids whose routines do not necessarily jive with FP return time, etc.

 

[rebbyparker]

I dont understand how the old system was unfair. Everyone played by the same rules. Get FP. When the appropriate time had passed, get another one if you so desire. You want multiple FP, get there early.

It was fair. It was level. Everyone had the same opportunity. I haven't seen any post that convinces me that because some people wanted to sleep in and didn't take advantage, that it was unfair. This new system is not on the same level at all. They've taken something that everyone had the opportunity to obtain and offered it to select people only. Now that's unfair and unlevel and everyone does not have the same opportunity.

 

[bcrook]

A few weeks ago I quoted from a guide that I had from 1993 that says that the most important things for a successful WDW vacation are (1) learning how the rides work and what you want to do, (2) visiting at a less busy time, and (3) arriving at the park early.

And yet, without fail, as we leave a park at 1 PM on a busy holiday the gates are jammed with people trying to get into the park and, as they enter, they stop and look at their maps to see how to get to something.

I am confident that human nature is a lot more powerful than Disney marketing. In fact, the tendency to get to the park early to get standby rides could be offset by people who feel entitled to sleep in because they have PM FP reservations. It will be interesting to see how it plays out when everything is fully implemented.

The same goes for people making FP+ reservations 60 days out. My observation is that a majority of people are poor planners and natural procrastinators, even for things that are a lot more critical than making theme park ride reservations.

I have noticed the same thing. It makes it nice for me and my group.

One thing that is a big leveler though is the three FP+ at once.

So here is what I think will happen.

At DAK - Kilimanjaro Safaris will be ridiculously hard to score, so the savvy 8800 (or less if it closes early) will get online early to get it. Maybe 50-60 days out. But in the process they are required (and would anyway) grab Expedition Everest (now only 4000 of those are left) and whatever else.

At DHS - People WILL get online early to grab those precious 9,000 FP+ for TSMM and wipe out an additional 9,000 TOT and Star Tours.

At EPCOT - Less people will get online to fight for Soarin, but it will happen.

At MK - The new Mountain will cause a frenzy of FP+ booking. So with the 10000-15000 people logging in early to grab Fps Splash and Space and Peter Pan will be taken down with it.

Its going to happen. The second tier stuff should be available the day of. I am not thinking I will ever have a problem with Star Tours, Little Mermaid, Pirates, Jungle Cruise, or Dinosaur.

 

[btk2333]

They may not have a choice. When they get online to book their FP+'s, it better be the very second it opens or they may end up with the early morning FP+ selections.

Then they have the choice not to sign up for them- and there's still a decent chance that that's they'll not show for the early reservation

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

Then they have the choice not to sign up for them- and there's still a decent chance that that's they'll not show for the early reservation

I'm not sure what you're talking about. With FP+ they aren't locked into a morning reservation anymore.

 

[doconeill]

Fairness requires a definition of what fair is, and what aspects they are trying to make fair.

They CANNOT make this fair in every possible aspect.

It's not fair right now because some guests can only get FP, some can only get FP+, and some can get both.

With this test, it won't be fair because some can get FP+ in advance, while others have to wait until that day and fight over what is left.

Even if they can all get them in advance, there will still be other aspects where it won't be fair. I don't think it is fair that I'm limited to 3 FP+, while others are complaining that they are forced to make 3 FP+ choices when they'll only use one. Or that someone won't ride Soarin' or Test Track while being forced to choose one, while I can ONLY choose one and not both.

But for some criteria, it will be fair.

Then again, I don't know that fairness was ever a stated goal of Fastpass+.

 

[btk2333]

I'm not sure what you're talking about. With FP+ they aren't locked into a morning reservation anymore.

People are saying that since someone will have to have the 9:00 fpp that it will drag more people to the park early. I'm saying that will not actually happen to the lebels predicted here

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

People are saying that since someone will have to have the 9:00 fpp that it will drag more people to the park early. I'm saying that will not actually happen to the lebels predicted here

Yeah, I don't see that happening either.

 

[Mkrop]

Can I turn this quote around and say- "The fact that the system is worse for you doesn't mean that it is not fair"?

It's just changing the time you have to get in line for those desired fast passes. Additionally, now you probably can't use FP to ride Soarin' three times in a day. Instead those second two rides on Soarin' will go to someone else who is booking at 60 days in advance. Now instead of your family riding Soarin 3x, 3 families ride Soarin' once.

Is that more fair? I don't know and I don't really think any system is "more fair" than the other; however, if someone wanted to make an argument that it is more fair I could be persuaded

Yes, that is the definition of more fair.

Just because something is redistributed doesn't mean it's necessarily fair.

I agree with Silock

what was fair was the early bird gets the worm...

what was fair was it did not matter who you were or where you stayed, from a suite at the GF, to a room at Pop, to staying at Grandma's house in FL, to a guest on IDrive, everyone had the same opportunity when they enter those gates(minus EMH hours, when you could not pull FPs anyway).

RIGHT NOW, some resorts guests are getting advantages, Pop and AStar peeps are limited and offsite guests are getting the leftovers or shut out altogether like at TSMM. Tell me what is FAIR about RIGHT NOW when people have spent a good chunk of change to go to WDW. Our trip was last week and we were fortunate to be staying onsite at AKL and BW but it was not fair to all those people who were shut out of TSMM when the FPs ran out at 9:25am. Dont talk about FAIR when you have people there now, they are dealing with all of this now, and are subjected to WDW changing their minds on a whim and with no compensation for being guinea pigs.

And I doubt imho that this system will be FAIR to offsite people when it is all rolled out, what is the point then if the goal is to lock you in, they want people onsite. There is no way onsite and offsite will be competing for those coveted FP+s at the same time. And even a onsiter who has given their money to WDW might be out of luck on the headliners if they did not book at the 60 day mark or whatever they decide.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

OK, first of all, I don't think anyone really believes that "early bird gets the worm" is fair. There are tons of reasons that would prevent someone from getting there early, and they should be given equal access.

As to the on-site/off-site/value resort problem, it's temporary. Yes, for people who are taking their once in a lifetime trip now, it sucks. But most people here go to Disney a LOT.

 

[bcrook]

Rasulo just said this week that the goal is to lock people into schedules, as early as possible. Not to keep things as flexible as possible.

Regardless, how much moving around you can do the day-of will depend on a lot of things...the crowds, the particular ride you are trying to move around, what other things you have to move around, etc etc.

What I noticed the week before TG was that things really tightened up about a week or ten days before. The day before...it became basically impossible to do any major re-scheduling because of all of the other moving parts.

I can see the new guidebooks writing themselves now..."The best plan is to book your schedule at 60 days out and plan on sticking with it."

With the Rasulo comment about locking in advance being the main objective, the D23 comments about First Come First Serve, and the Official Disney Q&A page referring to the new improved standby lines in every post. I think Disney's intent of booking up early and standby being the alternative is pretty clear.

I agree about the guidebooks.

 

[bcrook]

OK, first of all, I don't think anyone really believes that "early bird gets the worm" is fair. There are tons of reasons that would prevent someone from getting there early, and they should be given equal access.

As to the on-site/off-site/value resort problem, it's temporary. Yes, for people who are taking their once in a lifetime trip now, it sucks. But most people here go to Disney a LOT.

Its still going to be early bird gets the worm. It will be a virtual slugfest at the 60 day mark. It sounds like this will benefit you though.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

Its still going to be early bird gets the worm. It will be a virtual slugfest at the 60 day mark. It sounds like this will benefit you though.

Point taken, unless FP+ are held back as ADRs are, which I believe will be the case.

 

[bcrook]

Then again, I don't know that fairness was ever a stated goal of Fastpass+.

I haven't read that in one single press release, blog, news story or quote. This has never been about equity.