All FP machines to be removed from Animal Kingdom by next week and....

[btk2333]

Sorry for the length of this post, but I think it was necessary to clarify my thinking. I will now step aside and let you all tell me how crazy I am. I am getting used to it.

Well put- this is a great description of how we adapt our touring to fpp. I am confident that whatever system disney puts in place those of is that do our research will still be able to optimize our touring and we will continue enjoyin our Disney vacations.

 

[rebbyparker]

I am so sad that we chose this year to surprise our kids with a Christmas trip to WDW. If I could take it back, I would. But as it is, we're going. That train has left the station.

I am trying so hard not to let this madness get to me. DH and I keep saying, "There's nothing we can do about it. We have to plan as best as we can, and the rest is out of our hands." Not exactly the kind of vacation we'd been hoping for, you know? And certainly not during the Christmas season.

Every time I think it can't get any worse, it does. The (potential) removal of FP- machines during the height of the season is the last straw. It's just so absurd!! But again, out of our hands.

I'm going to try very hard to keep an open mind. But as it stands, I really am starting to wonder if this self-proclaimed "Disney Geek" is ready to move on to other vacation endeavors. Time will tell.

You're not alone there. I never thought I'd be sitting here two weeks out wondering why I thought this was a good idea. But regardless of what Disney does, we'll have a great time because we're flexible. Got tentative touring plans made and we'll adapt as needed. No small children on this trip (DGD is 12) so we'll be pretty fast on our feet as needed.

 

[ckelly14]

Being a scientist, I love an exercise in numbers as much as anyone. However, have any of these numbers changed from pre- to post FP+? We're still talking the exact same ride capacity, right?

Personally, I'd rather check in 60 days earlier, find out the only fast pass to Soarin' is at 7PM, rather than get there at rope drop, run to Soarin' (we enter through IG) and find out once we get there the only FP+ available is at 7PM.

 

[Mkrop]

Awwwww...I really hope this gets better for the people with malfunctioning MB's. Aside from your resort fiasco, I'm glad you had a good time and I hope your arm heals fast!

I am so sad that we chose this year to surprise our kids with a Christmas trip to WDW. If I could take it back, I would. But as it is, we're going. That train has left the station.

I am trying so hard not to let this madness get to me. DH and I keep saying, "There's nothing we can do about it. We have to plan as best as we can, and the rest is out of our hands." Not exactly the kind of vacation we'd been hoping for, you know? And certainly not during the Christmas season.

Every time I think it can't get any worse, it does. The (potential) removal of FP- machines during the height of the season is the last straw. It's just so absurd!! But again, out of our hands.

I'm going to try very hard to keep an open mind. But as it stands, I really am starting to wonder if this self-proclaimed "Disney Geek" is ready to move on to other vacation endeavors. Time will tell.

You're not alone there. I never thought I'd be sitting here two weeks out wondering why I thought this was a good idea. But regardless of what Disney does, we'll have a great time because we're flexible. Got tentative touring plans made and we'll adapt as needed. No small children on this trip (DGD is 12) so we'll be pretty fast on our feet as needed.

I hope you both have a wonderful time. Just remember you have the advantage of reading all this in advance...forewarned is forearmed. And also you both have been before so you know the parks and I feel that will help you both tremendously unlike a newbie going at this time of year and with this rollout! Pixie dust for both of you.

 

[kellyg403]

I hope you both have a wonderful time. Just remember you have the advantage of reading all this in advance...forewarned is forearmed. And also you both have been before so you know the parks and I feel that will help you both tremendously unlike a newbie going at this time of year and with this rollout! Pixie dust for both of you.

Just remember, its still vacation! Our trip was still wonderful despite our issues with fp+. We did get to see a few things we have not made the time to do in 10 trips!

Kelly

 

[Robo]

7. Properly rested, we will go to a park, usually a different one, to spend the evening. That is where we will gratefully use our 3 FP+ reservations to enjoy 3 things that we couldn't have done otherwise without long waits. Tiering or not, that is a big perk for us.

Keeping with the math motif...
I just used a bit of "mathematical reduction" to pare down the presented data to where you actually use FP+.

 

[g-dad66]

I hope you both have a wonderful time. Just remember you have the advantage of reading all this in advance...forewarned is forearmed. And also you both have been before so you know the parks and I feel that will help you both tremendously unlike a newbie going at this time of year and with this rollout! Pixie dust for both of you.

Agree.

And I would add that some of our best trips were when we were expecting the worst (summer heat, or huge Easter crowds, or mobbed weekend day at Food and Wine Festival, etc.), and we turned out be very pleasantly surprised by how well things went.

Hopefully the same will be true for you and all others who are traveling during the next month with lowered expectations.

 

[KatieCharlotte]

I don't think it's willfully ignorant to believe this will work better for some people. Clearly, there will be winners and losers.

I think the math is being ignored when people give the impression that everyone will be able to book the FP+ they want, both ahead of time and day-of, there could be plenty to "hold back" for day-of while still meeting the stated goal of locking people in, and there will be any day-of flexibility for headliners once this is marketed to all. It's not going to fix the problems at DHS and Epcot; it's just going to shift the way the same fastpasses are distributed. This is frustrating to me, because I would have much rather had new rides that took the pressure off the few headliners at certain parks and created more happy guests.

Re the AK test, I'm most concerned about the confused guests not being prepared for this sudden change and the poor CMs who have to deal with them.

 

[wisblue]

Keeping with the math motif...
I just used a bit of "mathematical reduction" to pare down the presented data to where you actually use FP+.

Yes, almost everything I said in that opus is something that I have said somewhere else. But, I think it helps to put it into the context of how we will use FP+ and how it fits with all of the numbers that some people think I am willfully ignoring.

 

[Laketravis]

Being a scientist, I love an exercise in numbers as much as anyone. However, have any of these numbers changed from pre- to post FP+? We're still talking the exact same ride capacity, right?

Personally, I'd rather check in 60 days earlier, find out the only fast pass to Soarin' is at 7PM, rather than get there at rope drop, run to Soarin' (we enter through IG) and find out once we get there the only FP+ available is at 7PM.

Excellent point.

I think we can all agree that whatever a park capacity is, that is what it is and no magic behind a reservation system can increase that.

What all the conjecture and speculation is about could have more to do with psychology, and the point you made may ultimately be the saving grace for WDW - if you can't eliminate the disappointment, see if you can at least minimize it.

In other words - if I go online now to make a reservation for California Grill two months out and there is no availability, I'm somewhat disappointed but the wisdom of my choice is affirmed for me. Wow, it must be good - everyone wants it. So I then embark on a personal endeavor over the next two months to continue to attempt to secure a reservation. Whether I do or not, the experience is much different than if I had walked up to the CG desk at the Contemporary on the day of my visit only to find out there are no tables for that evening. That's a one-shot major disappointment pill that had to be swallowed then and there.

Of course, that's how the psychology works for me - your mileage may vary.

But what I described could be a self-healing process for WDW - reservations for popular attractions reach a point of equilibrium. People will still be disappointed, but in a much different way, a way that might lessen the disappointment because they are made to feel they have additional options.

That's even true, albeit to a much lesser extent, for off-site guests who show up to the park and know nothing about FP+ and learn they need to make three selections from a limited set of options. In many ways the disappointment they might feel at that point is a singular event with a solution, rather than multiple events of disappointment throughout the day as they pass long line after long line with no possible solution.

If you're not convinced, research how yield management has been perfected by the airline industry to keep a certain number of seats filled on every plane yet still accommodate the travel days/times/destination preference of the people who pay to sit in those seats.

 

[Shaden]

Yes, almost everything I said in that opus is something that I have said somewhere else. But, I think it helps to put it into the context of how we will use FP+ and how it fits with all of the numbers that some people think I am willfully ignoring.

Wis,

For the record, I didn't say YOU were willfully ignorant. I said some people are. In fact, if you note in my statement, I actually pointed out that some people will benefit from this due to their touring style. In particular people who used to get NO FP, will now perhaps get a couple, even if they are "slightly bruised apples".

I mean, you admit things like, you don't "think" FP+ is going to change your RD experience too much. Though we already have evidence that it is doing so, ok, cool maybe it wont once its fully rolled out. You admit that you might not be able to get your evening FP+s that you want, but that you will be online at day 60 fighting it out to get them. You admit that its likely closer to the date there will be much decreased flexibility (if any) in FP+s but suggest you pretty much stick to plan.

You make some rosier assumptions, ie: capacity of FP+, over capacity booking, holding some back for day of, etc. But those are all possible, so while I would disagree, I wouldn't call you ignorant of facts there.

That's not being willfully ignorant. There are people on these boards that deny any, and all of that, and more. Those are the people I was talking about. Even when you point it out to them, repeatedly.

 

[kellyg403]

Kelly, some of these things can be improved as the MDE app improves. And, some of the things, like FP in more than one park, could also be implemented once the testing and rollout gets further along. Even if that happens, I would expect it to be subject to the same tiering as there would be for one park because of the numbers/capacity issue.

And if that comes to fruition I can see being a bit happier with it. I still don't like not having the opportunity to be a little more spontaneous. We have been known to get the dining plan. We like it, it works. We sometimes use 2 TS in one day and 2 CS the next day. Basically, so the CS day we can wake up decide where to go, and go. Usually those decisions are based on riding a particular attraction. Haunted Mansion, even at standby most of the time has very little wait. So getting a fp for that attraction probably won't be an issue. However, trying to ride all of the mountains in the same trip, or quite frankly even 2 with one fp and one standby, becomes an issue. IMHO.

Kelly

 

[rebbyparker]

Thanks for the good wishes. I have the same for everyone going over the Christmas holiday.

 

[wwitt]

Well skootch over guys, I brought a plate of cookies......

I'm in, I have snickerdoodles baking as we speak. Skootch some more.

 

[bcrook]

10. Maybe I'm being selfish to put our situation above that of the offsite guests who do not have access to FP+ (yet), guests who like to ride certain things multiple times in a day, guests who dont want to arrive at park opening, guests who dont want to decide ahead what park to go to, or guests who dont like to park hop. But, it seems to me that most of the people who are vehemently opposed to FP+ are doing that based on selfish reasons too. And that selfishness takes the form of wanting significantly more FPs for certain attractions than the average guest. Im just looking for my fair share. I should add that I dont need to hear all of the arguments again about how much fairer the old FP system was. I fully understand that it was better for some but not for others.

I think that might be an oversimplification. I actually tour very much like you and I share your strategy. My teen age children don't though.

And as for the bolded part. I think there has been just as much lamentations about the specter of battling for FP online in advance, dealing with glitchy technology, losing flexibility once at the parks, and for me - being locked into a schedule based on my FP+ selections even though I have a hopper and like to make decisions to wander the parks on the day of the playing. And you said in one of your points - this will be become more difficult during peak seasons (the only time I can visit) when everybody is on line.

This has nothing to do with me getting to ride Tower of Terror twice or three times with a fast pass.

 

[bcrook]

Being a scientist, I love an exercise in numbers as much as anyone. However, have any of these numbers changed from pre- to post FP+? We're still talking the exact same ride capacity, right?

Personally, I'd rather check in 60 days earlier, find out the only fast pass to Soarin' is at 7PM, rather than get there at rope drop, run to Soarin' (we enter through IG) and find out once we get there the only FP+ available is at 7PM.

Even though ride capacity has not changed, distribution is much different. In the past, the fastpasses were distributed to the people who pulled them. Now, all the fast passes are being collected by Disney and then Disney is giving three to every person who books a room and links a ticket. At some point they will probably be giving them to everyone off site who links a ticket also.

These are no longer place holders in a line. They are place holders for a spot in Disney's new all inclusive theme park.

So in the past, I may have actually not used any fastpasses for a entire day (those are usually days when I am in the Cave at Mexico). But now, I have been assigned three fastpasses. They are mine, and I am not going to waste them. So, I am going to go on Test Track whether I want to or not. I am not going to waste one of my precious fastpasses.

I saw this on my food and wine trip in October. We booked up our 5 days of fastpasses. I was with a group of 10 people who were there for the food and wine. They couldn't care less about rides. Then they got their three golden fastpasses. We were running all over the place making sure we didn't waste any. I was exhausted. I couldn't pry those things out of their virtual hands.

With everybody getting three - that is it for the parks. No more available for day of last minute choices. AND the worst part is, after full roll out and during peak times - we won't be able to decide on a Tuesday morning I want to go to the Studios. Because now I am locked into DAK.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

With everybody getting three - that is it for the parks. No more available for day of last minute choices. AND the worst part is, after full roll out and during peak times - we won't be able to decide on a Tuesday morning I want to go to the Studios. Because now I am locked into DAK.

You make some very good points, but Disney has said that they have designed FP+ to be flexible so that you won't be locked into any park. You can change your reservations that morning, no problem. Otherwise, how would locals ever get on rides?

 

[amylevan]

10. Maybe I'm being selfish to put our situation above that of the offsite guests who do not have access to FP+ (yet), guests who like to ride certain things multiple times in a day, guests who dont want to arrive at park opening, guests who dont want to decide ahead what park to go to, or guests who dont like to park hop. But, it seems to me that most of the people who are vehemently opposed to FP+ are doing that based on selfish reasons too. And that selfishness takes the form of wanting significantly more FPs for certain attractions than the average guest. Im just looking for my fair share. I should add that I dont need to hear all of the arguments again about how much fairer the old FP system was. I fully understand that it was better for some but not for others.

But as the numbers point out, you still aren't guaranteed your fair share. Now, instead of being at a park at opening, you'll be required to grab that FP+ 60 days out. It has simply moved the point at which a FP might run out at TSSM from the morning of to some point earlier, potentially weeks earlier.

And I'm sorry, but it's just absurd. My DH is not a Disney fanatic. He goes along because the family likes it there, but doesn't want to talk about it, plan it , or even hear about it until we are on our way. He walked in the room while I was cursing at MDE trying to schedule our FP+ and he wanted to know what I was doing. He couldn't fathom why anyone would want to pick a ride and a time months before arrival.

 

[amylevan]

You make some very good points, but Disney has said that they have designed FP+ to be flexible so that you won't be locked into any park. You can change your reservations that morning, no problem. Otherwise, how would locals ever get on rides?

Ding Ding Ding. We have a winner.

Where has Disney said they designed it to be flexible? They specifically stated that they designed it to get people scheduled and locked into a Disney park as opposed to going offsite.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

Ding Ding Ding. We have a winner.

Where has Disney said they designed it to be flexible? They specifically stated that they designed it to get people scheduled and locked into a Disney park as opposed to going offsite.

I have no idea where I read it. But since it is designed for EVERYONE, and we have had many reports on this board of people changing reservations for headliners last minute, I assume this to be the case.