Never Tell Me The Odds!: From the Hospital Bed to Club 71

The trick is to focus on how many miles you've completed and send a positive message to yourself about the miles behind you. I've got 'numerology' I use at most miles of a marathon.

You want to try to only think of the 'next' mile in front of you.

I'll post more when I get back from my run.
Thank you. I appreciate as many different ideas as I can get about how to approach this. It's a new way of thinking about a race for me, but I also think it's going to be very beneficial during the marathon. I think I always dreaded the marathon because I couldn't wrap my head around the distance or the time on my feet.

I was wondering if you'd be super busy yesterday. Next deadline is October 15th, right? (Or do you not do extensions?)
But wow, pretty crazy that you trained for a half right before a tax deadline. I wasn't thinking about that. Now I'm even more impressed with how you did!
Yep, next deadline is October 15th. My trick this time around was with the Dark Side races, I trained during a deadline, but the race fell after the deadline, so the stress was gone. This time the race fell shortly before the deadline.

I do like the idea of breaking things down. I heard someone once say "at mile 20, it's just a 10K." At the end of most of my half marathon races, I always tell myself I've gone one last training run left to go. But I didn't really do that this time.

As for failing, I don't believe anyone who finished any race or event ever truly "failed". Sure, sometimes we don't hit the goals we want, but that's because we decided to challenge ourselves in the first place by setting goals outside our comfort zone. If a goal is too easy, there's not much of a sense of accomplishment on meeting it.
There is so much truth to this. While failure isn't quite the right word, I think the statement from Yoda that my mind picked up on is the perfect description for this race. I certainly didn't fail. But because I didn't have the race I dreamed of, I learned so many very important lessons that I believed I needed to learn before the marathon instead of during it.

I've certainly had races where things do not go as planned - poor pacing, poor training, poor weather, etc. - but I've never regretted running the race itself. I know I've given a good effort, and I can be proud of that, whatever my result was. You ran a great race and overcame some serious obstacles. Never forget that.
Thank you so much. Sometimes it's too easy to get tangled up in my own thoughts and not realize what did happen during the race. I've met a few people in the parks after runDisney races who say "I wish I could do that." I offer as much encouragement as I possibly can that they really can do that, but at some point, each person needs to believe it for themselves.

One of the things I did was consciously try to appreciate the current moment and be grateful that I'm in that moment. I start by appreciating that I'm alive and I'm healthy enough to start this race. I think back to my training and remind myself that I put in enough work that I'll probably finish this race, too. I look around and really try to notice my environment.
I really love this approach. I wish I had utilized it more during the Giant Race, but really want to apply it during Dopey. I chose the Walt Disney World Marathon precisely because it's in Disney World. Lots to look at, be distracted by, and look forward to.

I also chat up my fellow racers, and I've found most of them are grateful for the distraction. I'll talk about training, other races they've done, etc. - just anything to help pass the time. If someone is struggling, I try to increase their spirits as much as I can. When you do Dopey, there are going to be so many great moments you're going to want to savor - things like running down Main Street in Magic Kingdom, passing by Everest in Animal Kingdom, and the lap through World Showcase before you finish outside EPCOT. Plus, there's going to be so many cool photo ops, on-course entertainment spots, and cool runner costumes that you'll have a lot to take in as you run. Sometimes I've even missed mile markers because I've been so distracted by all that's going on around me! So enjoy the moment when you run Dopey, and just keep moving forward. You'll be fine and you'll get to the finish eventually. As much as I love crossing the finish line in a RunDisney event, a part of me is a little sad it's over. Enjoy the experience and good luck!!
I know I say it a lot, but I really appreciate so many people in this community offering their expertise, experience, and encouragement. I've come to realize that even though I often run alone, I don't really run alone if that makes sense.

I've never run through the Magic Kingdom so that should be cool. Plus, I've heard about the Gospel Choir in Epcot near the end. That sounds amazing.
 
Particularly the idea about not counting down how many miles I have left to go at certain points. Now I just have to figure out how to do that.

This is what I've done for marathons:

Never think about how many miles you have to go. Your 'forward-looking' window should only be the next mile.
At each mile, give yourself positive feedback on the miles you've completed. Try not to think of individual miles completed, because that makes it easy to think about how many miles you have left.
I use mathematical trickery and outright lies. I think of completed miles in known race distances and fractions of the total.
Some simple math first:
3x8=26.2
4x6=26.2
5x5=26.2

Here are the thoughts I would have at each mile:
Mile 1: That came earlier than expected! Good job!
Mile 2: Pace has even out, all systems at operating temperature, all green on the dashboard.
Mile 3: 5K done!
Mile 4: 1/6th of the way!
Mile 5: 1/5th of the way!
Mile 6: 1/4th of the way AND a 10K done! 4, 5, and 6 are pretty lame, but you see how fast you went from 1/6th to 1/4th.
Mile 7: Over half a half done! (first one that's not a lie!)
Mile 8: 1/3rd of the way!
Mile 9: 5K plus 10K done!
Mile 10: Into double digits!
Miles 11 and 12: Not much trickery to be done here, just another mile done!
Mile 13: A half done!
Mile 14: Over half way!
Mile 15: 3/5ths of the way!
Mile 16: 2/3rds of the way!
Mile 17: A prime number!
Mile 18: The 'wall' is a myth if you want it to be. If you're properly trained and fueled, there is no wall. I've heard runners and coaches practically guarantee the runner is going to hit the wall, saying things like "here it comes, get ready for it, blah, blah, blah...' I make mile 18 my 'memory mile'. I think of family (both humans and pets, deceased and living). I relive good times and think of their smiling faces. Before I know it, 18 is behind me.
Mile 19: A half plus 10K done!
Mile 20: Into the '2's! How many people can run 20 miles? I just did it!
After mile 20, the math tricks start to fail. It's best just to forget about what mile it is. Try to become some kind of machine, serially processing small tasks: another mile down, and I'll finish the one in front of me. Rinse, repeat. At this point, start to visualize the rewards at the end. Picture the medal, feel it hanging around your neck, feel the weight of it in your hand. Think of your celebratory lunch/dinner. What are you going to order? After 20, try to occupy your mind with thoughts of anything but running.
Mile 25: It's finally safe to think of how many miles you have to go. This is the 'meat' of the victory lap, enjoy it!

Silly? Yes. Does it work? Yes.

Additional points:
Each mile is a celebration of what you've finished. Give yourself positive feedback. Try not to think in absolute mileage: a 5K done, not 3 miles done, because that leads you to do the math of how many miles you have to go.

At each mile, you set the goal of finishing the next mile. Not mile 15 or 17 or whatever, just the 'next' mile. If the going gets tough toward the end, set smaller goals. I've finished marathons running from street sign to street sign.

I visualize my progress as a pie chart, not a bar graph. Mentally, bar graphs get updated in real time, like downloading a big file with a slow internet connection: 1% complete... Ugh.
A pie chart can be mentally updated when you want it to. Start with an empty pie chart and fill it in as you go. Don't start with a 'full' pie and eat your way through it. The reason for this is that you want to focus on what you've finished, not how much you have to go.

Practice these and any other Jedi mind tricks you can come up with on training runs. Training runs are as much about mental training as they are physical training.

Focus on the positive, not the negative. If body part X is hurting, it's easy to focus every brain cell on how much it hurts. Try to compartmentalize it: 'Ok X, you're hurting, I'll do what I can and I'll check back with you in 10 minutes.' I'm not saying you should ignore aches and pains, just don't focus on them.

As @BikeFan says, anything you can do to distract yourself and pass the time (and miles) is a good thing. Spectators, other runners, signs, etc.

Disclaimer: I've not done any research and I have no empirical data that these tricks works. I do have plenty of anecdotal evidence, having used them plenty of times to get across the finish line.
 
I know I say it a lot, but I really appreciate so many people in this community offering their expertise, experience, and encouragement. I've come to realize that even though I often run alone, I don't really run alone if that makes sense.

The running community in general, and the RunDisney community in particular, are full of some great people. That's a huge part of why I've remained in the sport for the past 6 years or so, the many small moments when I've gotten a chance to see humanity at its best, encouraging each other in pursuit of these shared goals.

I've never run through the Magic Kingdom so that should be cool. Plus, I've heard about the Gospel Choir in Epcot near the end. That sounds amazing.

For me, the run down Main Street is the best moment of the race, and if you're doing Dopey, you'll get to do it twice (half and full)! Disney lets people into the park super-early to cheer, and the street is usually lined the whole way with spectators going nuts. I usually run next to the crowd and get high-fives the whole way. It's a huge rush! Enjoy it!
 
Each mile is a celebration of what you've finished. Give yourself positive feedback. Try not to think in absolute mileage: a 5K done, not 3 miles done, because that leads you to do the math of how many miles you have to go.
I loved your whole post but this stuck out the most. Each mile is a celebration. I feel like that on training runs. Each mile I am out there is a mile I am working through things or not worrying or stressing or anything. Maybe I will come up with a list of 26 "celebrations" and at each mile just focus on that. Reasons why I am running, things that make me happy, my family, etc. And then I will save the last .2 thinking about the beer and pizza I will be immediately consuming. ;)
 


Practice these and any other Jedi mind tricks you can come up with on training runs. Training runs are as much about mental training as they are physical training.
I really like these. Especially the part about the wall being a myth. Since @DopeyBadger is coming up with my Dopey plan, I appreciate that part about how to overcome the idea of the wall.

Am I correct that I can use these same principles in applying them to shorter distances (say a half) as well? Or maybe in training tell myself that a 3 mile run is really a 6 mile run so my mind? Or is that doing more harm than good? This is new to me so I want to start working on it now so it's part of my mental routine on the day of the marathon.

I have found that in long runs, I tend to hate running the first 2 or 3 miles. But then I get my legs as it were and settle in. One good aspect for me about doing runDisney challenges is that I deal with these negative thoughts in a shorter distance race and they're gone during the half. But obviously Dopey is a different animal.

The running community in general, and the RunDisney community in particular, are full of some great people. That's a huge part of why I've remained in the sport for the past 6 years or so, the many small moments when I've gotten a chance to see humanity at its best, encouraging each other in pursuit of these shared goals.
It really does help when I can think of so many people that I've never actually met in person who are cheering me on from wherever they are all over the country.

Each mile is a celebration. I feel like that on training runs. Each mile I am out there is a mile I am working through things or not worrying or stressing or anything.
I like this too. Over the past couple of weeks, I've come to learn that I need to approach miles differently. I hope this will help the task not feel so daunting.
 
Am I correct that I can use these same principles in applying them to shorter distances (say a half) as well? Or maybe in training tell myself that a 3 mile run is really a 6 mile run so my mind? Or is that doing more harm than good? This is new to me so I want to start working on it now so it's part of my mental routine on the day of the marathon.

Yes, definitely apply them during shorter races. And if my 'reward' suggestions don't work for you, come up with your own.

As far as training runs: yes, practice the mind tricks. I'm guessing the 3/6 mile trick isn't going to work. I doubt that you can trick yourself into believing 3 is really 6. Of course at the end of your training cycle, 3 WILL feel like 6!

I offer the following suggestion: Don't think about the total miles, just like you don't want to do in the marathon. Just think 'Good job, a mile (no number) done, do the next one'. The goal is to program yourself to do a mile, congratulate yourself, and focus on the next mile, repeat as many times as necessary. When you start to do this, there is no difference between a 3 mile run and a 6 mile run, because you're only thinking about the next mile, and it's doable.

I know I'm making that sound easier than it is. Obviously, you looked at the plan and know how may miles it really is. The trick is to move your focus from 'total' to 'next' mile(s).

This happened to me today. I was scheduled for a 6 mile tempo run with warm-up and cool-down. For some reason, I couldn't download the workout to my watch. I had a 9 mile tempo run, with appropriate WU-CD, already loaded. I figured I'd just do 6 at tempo and ignore the rest. Since I was just focusing on the 'next' mile, I lost track and did 7.5 at tempo, instead of 6!

Speaking of watches, don't display total miles or time for the marathon. You want blind or split-oriented data.
 
As far as training runs: yes, practice the mind tricks.
Am I off base in thinking this sounds similar to what I will do during a difficult run overall or an early training run when I'm getting back into the swing of things?

Scenario 1: Plan called for a 30-45 minute run. I'm tired, I'm not feeling it, I'm in pain, whatever between 20-30 minutes. According to the plan, I could quit at 30 minutes and be good for the day. But unless the pain is a very serious problem, I tell myself that I'm really at mile 12 of the half marathon and power through.

Scenario 2: Plan calls for 45 minute run, but I'm feeling especially lazy on this day. I tell myself it's really mile 10 on race day and proceed with the run.

I realize there's some potential mile countdown problems in those scenarios, but I'd like to know if it's at least a start.
 


Practice these and any other Jedi mind tricks you can come up with on training runs. Training runs are as much about mental training as they are physical training.

This is extremely good advice. When you're out there on your training runs, you're not just building up your body to take on a marathon, you're building up your confidence and your belief in yourself that you're capable of reaching your goal. Sports psychology studies have repeatedly shown that confidence in oneself plays a huge role in positive outcomes. Of course confidence alone isn't going to get you very far - showing up to the starting line without training is a recipe for failure. So we train, and when we train, we need to change our mental picture of who we are as an athlete. A marathon or whatever race isn't just 26.2 miles - it's the many miles we covered beforehand just to get to the starting line, to reach that level of preparedness that we can and we should believe that we'll reach that finish line on race day. Sometimes people don't want to be confident because they're afraid of being arrogant, but those two things are different. It would be arrogant (and foolish) to tell myself I'm going to win the Disney Marathon - I'm just not that fast and there's no evidence I can hang with those sub-3 folks. But I'm always confident I'll finish. I've put in the work and I can take confidence that it's going to pay off. When I'm waiting in the corral I always think back to my training miles, and I remind myself that I worked to get here, and it was time to reap the rewards of that work. There's a medal waiting for me at the finish line and I'm definitely going to be wearing it in a few hours.

I've trained with a bunch of first-time marathoners, and I've never seen a single runner who put in the work fail to finish. More than anything, this sport rewards the persistent. When you're out on your training runs, remember that these training miles aren't just about the legs and lungs, they're about building that confidence that we can do this. Remember before your first half, 13.1 probably felt like a near-impossible distance, and you've cruised through how many of those now? If you sow the seeds in training, you will reap the reward come race day. Reflect on that when you're training, and remember it on race day. The best way to get through the mileage of a marathon is to beat it before it starts. "Oh, look, Mile 1! 25 to go. Eh, no worries, I got this." If you've done the work, the race is just the victory lap!
 
Hi Sleepless Knight, sorry for the delayed response. I was out enjoying the double glorious combination of retirement AND my running off day.

I'm reading between the lines and wondering if my information is confusing you. I suspect @DopeyBadger may be suggesting a different way to NOT focus on the total miles. While the goal is the same: don't think about the total, don't think about how many you have to go, take the miles one at a time, I'm guessing his methodology is to imagine your training run started at X miles rather than zero, basically lying to yourself about what mile you're at.

My methodology is to 'abstract' the miles and to think of the distance covered in any unit other than plain old miles.

If this is the case, I would suggest going with DB's methodology because you're in closer contact with him. Plus, he's coached hundreds of athletes, and I've only coached one, me. Not to say you can't mix some of my suggestions in.

Whatever methodology you use: Do NOT think of the total miles and do NOT think of how many miles you have to go! I know I sound like a broken record (broken MP3?), but this cannot be said enough.

I'll be following along offering advice and encouragement where I can!
 
Hi Sleepless Knight, sorry for the delayed response. I was out enjoying the double glorious combination of retirement AND my running off day.

I'm reading between the lines and wondering if my information is confusing you. I suspect @DopeyBadger may be suggesting a different way to NOT focus on the total miles. While the goal is the same: don't think about the total, don't think about how many you have to go, take the miles one at a time, I'm guessing his methodology is to imagine your training run started at X miles rather than zero, basically lying to yourself about what mile you're at.

My methodology is to 'abstract' the miles and to think of the distance covered in any unit other than plain old miles.

If this is the case, I would suggest going with DB's methodology because you're in closer contact with him. Plus, he's coached hundreds of athletes, and I've only coached one, me. Not to say you can't mix some of my suggestions in.

Whatever methodology you use: Do NOT think of the total miles and do NOT think of how many miles you have to go! I know I sound like a broken record (broken MP3?), but this cannot be said enough.

I'll be following along offering advice and encouragement where I can!

Certainly don't disagree. Above all else remember these things when it comes to the marathon:

1) Stay positive
2) Smile
3) Stay motivated

If you can master these three simple things, then you've found whatever mental trick is necessary for you. Research shows motivation is a key factor in long distance racing. So I use the mental tricks to stay positive (because thinking about how many miles left usually leads to negative thoughts), smile, and stay motivated.
 
I'm reading between the lines and wondering if my information is confusing you. I suspect @DopeyBadger may be suggesting a different way to NOT focus on the total miles. While the goal is the same: don't think about the total, don't think about how many you have to go, take the miles one at a time, I'm guessing his methodology is to imagine your training run started at X miles rather than zero, basically lying to yourself about what mile you're at.
I really appreciate you taking the time to offer me your tips and experience. I ran my first half under a philosophy best described as I lived all alone on an island and one day decided to run 13.1 consecutive miles so I trained to do it and don't tell hardly anyone I'm even doing it.

All I really did with that philosophy was spook myself into fearing I would not finish and also depriving myself of a community that could teach me how to succeed and enjoy the experience instead of just getting through it.

Whatever methodology you use: Do NOT think of the total miles and do NOT think of how many miles you have to go! I know I sound like a broken record (broken MP3?), but this cannot be said enough.

I'll be following along offering advice and encouragement where I can!
I really needed to hear this. I've always counted down the miles in the past and it sounds like that's a disastrous idea heading into a marathon because that can really mess with my brain. You correctly guess coach's advice, but it sounds like I can use a combination of Jedi mind tricks and his ideas to achieve the desired outcome.

And don't fear sounding like a broken record. You've done what I hope to someday do in running. Reminders can only help me especially if I apply them.

If you can master these three simple things, then you've found whatever mental trick is necessary for you. Research shows motivation is a key factor in long distance racing. So I use the mental tricks to stay positive (because thinking about how many miles left usually leads to negative thoughts), smile, and stay motivated.
I've been practicing more blind runs recently. I only worry about the intervals. I think I'm still in the process of retraining my mind to stop thinking in terms of x number of minutes/miles to go. However, in a still small sample size, I think it might be helping me work through "bad running" thoughts better since I don't know how long I still have to go. Almost as if I have to clear the thought because I don't actually know how much longer I "have" to do this.

I often find that a "bad" run always makes me feel better than if I didn't do it at all.
 
I know I say it a lot, but I really appreciate so many people in this community offering their expertise, experience, and encouragement. I've come to realize that even though I often run alone, I don't really run alone if that makes sense.

It's funny that you mention this because in my half marathon on Sunday, I had exactly the opposite thought. As everyone was passing me near the start, the thought occurred to me that I was very much alone in the endeavour and couldn't fix my pace to anyone. I chatted with one lady for a few minutes but her pace was too fast for me at the time and let her go ahead pretty quickly. I'm glad I did that because I've had the situation happen in the past where I've stayed with a runner who was running to fast for me and at the end I just had nothing in the tank.

Basically, in my line of thinking, we all have to run our own race at our own pace. You can turn that into a Tshirt, if you'd like.

But the community here does help and it's fantastic to be able to share our training, our ups and downs on the forums!
 
Basically, in my line of thinking, we all have to run our own race at our own pace.
I believe that the sooner we understand and learn this concept, the more we come to enjoy running. Now instead of feeling bad because I'm not as fast as someone else, I enjoy the training and obviously the race itself on my terms.

I started out my very first half in a futile attempt to be as fast as others even though I had not actually trained at that pace. Well, I wasn't and the results were nearly disastrous. I decided that if I was going to fail at finishing, I would fail on my terms. They would have to remove me from the course. I would fail because I wasn't good enough, not because I didn't try. In the years since I have discovered that caring only about my own pace has liberated me as a runner because I'm only focused on improving myself and/or dealing with my challenges that day.
 
A rambling update of sorts from me, but mostly an attempt to stop overthinking things.

September and October are always very busy professionally with October being the most difficult of the two months. Somewhere in there running became something I needed to do, but didn't have time to actually do. Since not training would create much more difficult problems when I actually had time, I settled on getting the running in, but writing down just the basic details like pace and number of miles.

Then the week of October 8th hit. I quickly realized that I had two choices that week. Train and have no time whatsoever to unwind or take the week off training and have a few minutes each night to unwind. Somewhat reluctantly I decided to go with option 2 as it would be substantially less stressful. Once I accepted that I was not training and would resume training as soon as the deadline was past, I felt better. Or at least not guilty about it.

So last week, I resumed training. All things considered, I feel good about how the week went. Taking a week off running hurt me less than I thought it would. The week called for runs on Monday, Tuesday, Thursday through Saturday. I couldn't run on Monday, but forced myself out there Tuesday through Thursday. I had planned to run on Friday, but the exhaustion of the week struck back and I decided to take Friday off. Saturday's run went according to plan albeit later than I wanted.

So here's where I'm at. Mostly I'm just tired. Not so much of running, but of life. I think there's a lot of work burnout for obvious reasons. But I suppose the fear of failure during the marathon is working to keep me out there running. Sometimes I find myself questioning why I signed up for the marathon and the training really isn't even ramping up yet. Hopefully it will pass or at least I'll adjust to it.
 
Is taking a few days off from work for a short vacation or staycation an option? Some time away from work (and maybe a chance to run somewhere new?) may help with some of that burnout.

If that's not an option ... just stick with it. Hopefully things will get better. And in 80 days you'll be at Walt Disney World in the middle of running 4 awesome races!!
 
Is taking a few days off from work for a short vacation or staycation an option? Some time away from work (and maybe a chance to run somewhere new?) may help with some of that burnout.
For the moment, it isn't. Maybe after Thanksgiving. But maybe a long weekend then will be what I need. I also hope that being more conscientious about how I spend my newfound free time will help. I need a break, but maybe a break doing something I enjoy instead of feeling tired will help.

If that's not an option ... just stick with it. Hopefully things will get better. And in 80 days you'll be at Walt Disney World in the middle of running 4 awesome races!!
That's part of why a break from work right now isn't really feasible. But that's not a bad thing. I realized in the midst of the tax deadline last week that I already know how to cope with near complete mental and physical exhaustion. That has to help when the marathon gets difficult.
 

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