WOW - SW - what happened?

All depends on the size of your market. If you are in a city that is connected to multiple "hub" cities, you are won't see the 2-stop flights typically. However, if you are in a limited market the system will try to offer 2-stop flights that still have legal connections to give more options.

As others have mentioned, there is a lot of moving things around right now with the retirement of the 733s and the MAX-8s coming online. Things will get jumbled a bit when Hawaii starts since that will be a MAX exclusive market and they'll shift that equipment west.

It's only been this way since May (could have been even less but I can only vouch for May)
 
I think SW is raising fares because they can. So many people are getting the companion pass, I mean heck they gave them away to people in California. The fares are high because so many people are using points and the CP to fly SW. to raise revenue they have to increase fares and cut services somewhere.
 


How is this system different from what they had before?
Here is a little background:

http://www.travelweekly.com/Travel-...es-system-enables-flexibility-ancillary-sales

https://thepointsguy.com/2017/04/southwest-new-reservation-system/

Another change is one that customers need to be aware of. Previously, a points booking could be "changed," without any financial risk. Since the change to Amadeus, if a points booking is "changed," instead of canceling and re-booking, the tax and fee portion of the ticket will not be refunded back to the original form of payment; the confirmation number must be retained so that that the non-refundable taxes and fees can be applied to the cost of future travel, to be completed within one year from date of original purchase. The one caveat, though, for canceling and re-booking, is that the EBCI fee on a canceled ticket will be lost. It's not lost, however, if the booking is just "changed."
 
I think SW is raising fares because they can. So many people are getting the companion pass, I mean heck they gave them away to people in California. The fares are high because so many people are using points and the CP to fly SW. to raise revenue they have to increase fares and cut services somewhere.
I cannot imagine that there are that many people flying on Companion to make a billion dollar company lose money.

Their RR points program is of their own making-it's very easy to earn-though moreso when you have the SWA CC. If they wanted to curtail how many points people earned (which influences how many points they can use towards a flight) then they would make their program much more strict.

People who tend to have Companion are ones who tend to fly a ton (you either have to get 110,00 pts or fly 100 flights in a Jan-Dec calendar year). The year my husband earned Companion it was a combination of flying a TON (though most often with WGA fares) and getting the SWA CC with a 50,000 RR pts bonus. All that flying he did for business was thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars. His company spent a lot more on airfare for him to fly for business then the cost of what my airplane tickets would have been. Even moreso when the WGA fares were sold out and the Anytime fare was over $500 each way. A handful of times he had to buy the Business Select though that was only about $20-$50 more expensive than the Anytime fare. If you waited til you got very very close to the travel date then the Anytime fares were a bit better.

Granted you can sign up with two different SWA CC to get the points but that requires you to be eligible for both cards (both in credit, income and length of time since your last SWA CC) and have good sign up bonus. In order to get Companion pass again after it expires you either have to earn it (which isn't all that easy the normal way) or you have to cancel your CC and wait 2 years in order to sign up again.
 


I cannot imagine that there are that many people flying on Companion to make a billion dollar company lose money.

Their RR points program is of their own making-it's very easy to earn-though moreso when you have the SWA CC. If they wanted to curtail how many points people earned (which influences how many points they can use towards a flight) then they would make their program much more strict.

People who tend to have Companion are ones who tend to fly a ton (you either have to get 110,00 pts or fly 100 flights in a Jan-Dec calendar year). The year my husband earned Companion it was a combination of flying a TON (though most often with WGA fares) and getting the SWA CC with a 50,000 RR pts bonus. All that flying he did for business was thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars. His company spent a lot more on airfare for him to fly for business then the cost of what my airplane tickets would have been. Even moreso when the WGA fares were sold out and the Anytime fare was over $500 each way. A handful of times he had to buy the Business Select though that was only about $20-$50 more expensive than the Anytime fare. If you waited til you got very very close to the travel date then the Anytime fares were a bit better.

Granted you can sign up with two different SWA CC to get the points but that requires you to be eligible for both cards (both in credit, income and length of time since your last SWA CC) and have good sign up bonus. In order to get Companion pass again after it expires you either have to earn it (which isn't all that easy the normal way) or you have to cancel your CC and wait 2 years in order to sign up again.
In 2016 it was much easier to get the companion pass because you could transfer hotel points to SW to get it. In January 2017 they restricted hotel point transfers for the companion pass. So they did see an increase in people obtaining it.
 
In 2016 it was much easier to get the companion pass because you could transfer hotel points to SW to get it. In January 2017 they restricted hotel point transfers for the companion pass. So they did see an increase in people obtaining it.
Perhaps..but that still doesn't mean it led to increase in fares which is what you stated.

The fares are high because so many people are using points and the CP to fly SW. to raise revenue they have to increase fares and cut services somewhere.

I'm sure it's a lot more complicated.

But FWIW our airport that we use is supposed to be redone as a single terminal airport (it's a complicated decades old battle that is a "I'll believe it when I see it" type thing but still). You wanna know how they are going to pay for that? Increase ticket prices and fees rather than via property tax {ETA: and/or sales tax increase} (as it has failed time and time again when taxpayers were going to be responsible for it). So for me personally if it all pans out our tickets prices will increase for the sole reason of paying for the airport not at all related to how many people use RR pts or have a Companion Pass. SWA is also the #1 airline in terms of passengers in our airport.
 
They have made changes to the RR program, more points are required now than it used to be. It used to be a flat per mile. Now there are many variables - date, time, cities, etc. That was in 2015.

Not charging for bags or changes is costing them a lot compared to other airlines, they have to make it up somewhere. It definitely keeps my business. I have a trip at the end of June that I recently changed to arrive a day earlier. On a legacy airline, it would have cost me $200 to make that change (which I wouldn't have). Legacy airlines charge to redeposit miles on a reward ticket cancellation. SW puts them back in your account like it never happened.
 
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I completely agree both SW eliminating/curtailing non-stops. Makes me sad. But, I was inspired by this thread to check for flights with a different airline (our flights are already booked with points) out of curiosity.

Frontier had a flight out of Cleveland to Orlando. The flight was $130. It went from Cleveland to Denver, Denver to Buffalo, Buffalo to Orlando. Total flight time was over 15 hours. Of course, there were other options, but that cracked me up
 
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I completely agree bot SW eliminating/curtailing non-stops. Makes me sad. But, I was inspired by this thread to check for flights with a different airline (our flights are already booked with points) out of curiosity.

Frontier had a flight out of Cleveland to Orlando. The flight was $130. It went from Cleveland to Denver, Denver to Buffalo, Buffalo to Orlando. Total flight time was over 15 hours. Of course, there were other options, but that cracked me up
I can get from KC to Hawaii with hours to spare in that amount of time :laughing:

*Obviously adding in more stops adds travel time but still 2 stops could get you there in 13 hrs 40mins total travel time as an example.
 
Yeah, EWR to MCO is awful. Right now, United is offering a million choices each day but they're SUPER expensive.

Even Frontier out of Trenton is pretty crazy expensive, especially when you have to pay for bags, seats, etc.

Hi. on Thursday I booked EWR-MCO for $95 each way for September 7 and September 15 non stop.

Also, I booked 7 tickets from EWR-FLL for August 11 and August 19. Non stop with EB for $126 round trip each, which also includes two pieces of checked luggage. That adds up for 7 people. I was up at 4:50 am and had all our birthdates and credit card ready. I kept refreshing for two hours until it opened and was estatic! I have been watching flights on other carriers for many months and cannot find roundtrip and a decent time and non stop for anything under $400.

Good luck!
 
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I completely agree both SW eliminating/curtailing non-stops. Makes me sad. But, I was inspired by this thread to check for flights with a different airline (our flights are already booked with points) out of curiosity.

Frontier had a flight out of Cleveland to Orlando. The flight was $130. It went from Cleveland to Denver, Denver to Buffalo, Buffalo to Orlando. Total flight time was over 15 hours. Of course, there were other options, but that cracked me up


:rotfl2: In less time than it took for that flight just to get from Cleveland to Denver, you could have just driven the 3 hours to Buffalo & picked it up there. Heck, at that point, you could have just driven to Buffalo & flown a Southwest nonstop to Orlando. Drive to Buffalo - 3 hours. Nonstop flight to Orlando - 2.5 hours. Saving 9.5 hours on a plane - priceless. :rotfl2:
 
2013 lots of SW NS PVD - MCO. 2016 a lot fewer and some odd routes - BWI-PVD-MCO; was a "direct" flight.
we prefer Jet Blue but they have cut their schedule out of PVD as well. BOS-MCO fares are SO high.

NCL cruise out of Boston is looking more and more attractive -no airfare costs
 
Here is a little background:

http://www.travelweekly.com/Travel-...es-system-enables-flexibility-ancillary-sales

https://thepointsguy.com/2017/04/southwest-new-reservation-system/

Another change is one that customers need to be aware of. Previously, a points booking could be "changed," without any financial risk. Since the change to Amadeus, if a points booking is "changed," instead of canceling and re-booking, the tax and fee portion of the ticket will not be refunded back to the original form of payment; the confirmation number must be retained so that that the non-refundable taxes and fees can be applied to the cost of future travel, to be completed within one year from date of original purchase. The one caveat, though, for canceling and re-booking, is that the EBCI fee on a canceled ticket will be lost. It's not lost, however, if the booking is just "changed."

Those were decent high level write ups on the impacts to pax. A bit deeper, the original QIK reservation system we used was originally used by Braniff back in the day. It was brought over and maintained by Sabre (former AA subsidiary) through its life with the company. It was a very basic system that required a lot of...creativity in how to get things done. Amadeus is night and day to the old system and allows them to get more efficiency out of the network.

A lot of comments about cut backs on nonstops to MCO out of the Northeast cities - WN has struggled at times to get things established. PHL was resistant to move away from US/AA. EWR is struggling today as UA has been putting up a good fight. Closer to home, DTW use to have a nonstop that went seasonal and rarely makes it back for any length of time thanks to DL, Spirit, etc.

A side note to those look at F9. I've been seeing other crazy connection options as well, including overnight stays being required and other insane things. Something changed in what they consider a legal connection recently and is causing these crazy results. Also, I had looked at Frontier for a trip down last month, but eventually went back to the old employer after F9 kept moving flight times around and actual days of operation around. All these changes were happening 2 months out, so just be aware what you are seeing right now may not be there when it comes time to travel.
 
A side note to those look at F9. I've been seeing other crazy connection options as well, including overnight stays being required and other insane things. Something changed in what they consider a legal connection recently and is causing these crazy results. Also, I had looked at Frontier for a trip down last month, but eventually went back to the old employer after F9 kept moving flight times around and actual days of operation around. All these changes were happening 2 months out, so just be aware what you are seeing right now may not be there when it comes time to travel.

Another warning about Frontier - though their on-time performance has been improving, they are still down toward the bottom of the list.

Also, customers often don't realize that ultra low cost carriers, such as Frontier and Spirit, will nickel and dime them for everything - from carry-on bags to a can of soda, and not to mention checked bag and change fees.

Going back to when Midwest (the original, not after they were bought out by Republic) and AirTran had hubs at my home airport, it took a little bit to get used to Southwest. Now, with no Midwest or AirTran around, both having been bought out, Southwest is my best option. I've grown to appreciate the flexibility and usually reliable service, as well as their customer-friendly business model.
 
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I can't stand the additional fees for things, I love the one price covers it all setup. The one time we were going to use F9, I was making sure to use their packaged pricing that included everything and also made the ticket refundable. I get too nervous anymore about not having the option to move things around when needed.
 
I completely agree both SW eliminating/curtailing non-stops. Makes me sad. But, I was inspired by this thread to check for flights with a different airline (our flights are already booked with points) out of curiosity.

Frontier had a flight out of Cleveland to Orlando. The flight was $130. It went from Cleveland to Denver, Denver to Buffalo, Buffalo to Orlando. Total flight time was over 15 hours. Of course, there were other options, but that cracked me up

On the other hand Frontier is new to my home town airport. They have non stop flights to Orlando. When I was checking dates it was about $113 each way. Non stop both ways.
 
On the other hand Frontier is new to my home town airport. They have non stop flights to Orlando. When I was checking dates it was about $113 each way. Non stop both ways.
Frontier is not a good priced airline at all with my airport. It also doesn't fly non-stop to MCO.

For example random checking of 7/31 departure reflects $168 (cheapest option if not with their discount program) however that is over a 10 hr travel time. The other two are nearly 22hrs or nearly 24hrs of travel time :scared1:. To get home on 8/7 it would be $173 (cheapest option) and an over 19hr travel time :scared1:. And then you have to count in baggage fees AND a carry on fee as only personal item is included unless you join their discount program at a cost of $49.99 per year (gives you also a slight discount on airfare) for Frontier. A carry on bag costs $35. 1st checked bag costs $30, 2nd checked bag costs $45.

Conversely that same travel dates for SWA is non stop cheapest $142 getting there with a travel time of 2hrs 40 mins (the longest if not taking non-stop is 5hrs) getting home would be also be $142 non-stop same travel time and it's 2 checked bags plus a personal item plus a carry on.

So all in $284 with SWA vs $451 (included airfare,carry on bag and 2 checked bags for a tit for tat situation of SWA perks). Not to mention the immense travel time. *prices are for 1 passenger
 

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