Woman Arrested for Dragging Child in Epcot

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There is nothing wrong with a harness if it is used properly. My kid hated strollers and much preferred to walk. When he was 2 I was very pregnant and couldn't always run to keep up with him or bend well to pick him up so a harness kept him safe and kept him from running off when I was slow moving.
 
There is nothing wrong with a harness if it is used properly. My kid hated strollers and much preferred to walk. When he was 2 I was very pregnant and couldn't always run to keep up with him or bend well to pick him up so a harness kept him safe and kept him from running off when I was slow moving.

Now see that is a totally understandable use of a harness. Unfortunately I see way too many people using them as dog leashes which is just sad.
 
I also used a harness on DD when we took her to Disneyland when she was 13 months old. She did not want to ride in a stroller or be carried, so a harness was the best option. She was happy and it made for a memorable trip. I did hear a few comments about treating my child like a dog, but I ignored those who were blindly passing judgement.
 
I don't understand why parents find it necessary to take young children and babies to Disney. I guess we take them because we want to share our excitement or because we wanted to go when we were young but our parents didn't take us. Our adult children's memories of Disney vacations starts when they were 8 years of age, not their earlier vacations. We witnessed an overheated tired melt down of a very small child in a stroller. The Mother had finally had enough and yelled, "stop crying, you are in the happiest place in the world, damn it".

:earsboy: Bill
I get what you're saying, but it's possible to bring babies and small kids to Disney without it being a negative experience. We took our kids to Disney as babies and toddlers. We didn't want to wait until the youngest was older. My kids span 7 years. if I had waited until my youngest was 7 or 8, my oldest would've have been 14 or 15 and past all of the magic of believing in characters and meeting princesses.

I think the key is putting the kids first and sticking to their regular meal and sleep schedules (we didn't see fireworks for years because the kids needed to be in bed). Our kids are older now, but none of them ever had a meltdown on vacation. And the pictures of DD holding hands with the "really real" Wendy or DS having a light saber fight with Darth Vader are priceless.
 


Why use a harness when you can use a stroller?
The reason for the harness is during times when the baby is sick of sitting all day and wants to walk, but holding his hand isn't working (too hot, or he just doesn't want o hold hands, thank you, he wants to roam!) So the harness is only used rarely, though there's nothing wrong with using it for long periods because it doesn't hurt the baby, and if he walks nicely along, he doesn't feel the tug at all. In my experience, most of the time I use the harness, the cord is sagging because baby is walk alongside me, so it's only during times when he strays when it gets tight and I say, "Over here, sweetie," and my baby responds very nicely and turns right along with me.
The harness isn't good for crowded places because then you can get people stuck in it. So I don't use it in the parks. We only use it when it's not crowded, like in the evening when we want to go for a walk at the hotel (Pop), which is alongside a lake and I don't want the baby getting off the trail into the grasses or rocks by the lake.
Once the baby is old enough to know how to follow and not get lost, the harness will have no use. On rare occasions, however, there are even older kids who love taking off so much that the harness is the only way to take them out anywhere. Next year when my baby turn 3, I won't be needing the harness.
 
I don't understand why parents find it necessary to take young children and babies to Disney. I guess we take them because we want to share our excitement or because we wanted to go when we were young but our parents didn't take us. Our adult children's memories of Disney vacations starts when they were 8 years of age, not their earlier vacations. We witnessed an overheated tired melt down of a very small child in a stroller. The Mother had finally had enough and yelled, "stop crying, you are in the happiest place in the world, damn it".

:earsboy: Bill

Speaking just for myself, I had a baby after our family started the tradition of going to WDW every year. Before baby, I took my 2 sons to Disney while DH stayed home and worked to help pay the trip. The year I was pregnant, I was in bed vomiting for 9 months and couldn't go anywhere, not even Walmart. (I wanted to go to Walmart so much, it was like Walmart had turned into Disney World!) Once the baby came, I wanted to go back to Disney World badly, but I didn't want to leave the baby. So after months of thinking, I figured out how to make it happen:

1. I scheduled our meal times at odd hours (11am, 3p.m, 7p.m.) in accordance with the baby's breastfeeding schedule.
2. I bought a super light weight stroller so that my then DS9 can carry it onto the bus while I carry the baby.
3. I bought a sling to carry the baby should I not be able to find a seat on the bus.
4. I gave up my favorite rides such as Splash Mountain and Soaring so that I could stay with the baby.
5. I told the kids that they will have to give up some stuff in order to be at Disney with a baby, and they were OK with it -- it was better than no Disney World!

So we went and had a wonderful time! Granted, I had to give up almost all of my favorite rides, but it was still worth it because just being at WDW is magical. The baby slept well in the stroller and always passed out when we got to Splash Mountain. (Don't know why.) When he was awake, he adored the rides and watched them with wide open eyes. But he did that at the mall too, so I think he just liked the color.

To clarify, you ask why bother going when the baby won't remember. But we don't go to make memories. We go for the experience, not so that we can remember it later. I myself don't remember much of our trips because we've gone so many times and they all blend together. We go because it is such a wonderful place, we consider it our second home. In fact, not remembering is a plus: it's like reading a good book and then afterwards you don't remember it. Why, you can then read it again and enjoy it like the first time!
 
The first time we took our first grandchild to WDW we struggled with the idea of using a harness. I know there are a lot of people who find them objectionable and I too struggled with it but in the long run having the knowledge that my grandson would be safer with the harness then he would be without it helped us decide. We did use the harness, not all the time but when we were in the crowded parks and he wanted to be out of the stroller but didn't want to be held we would use the harness. It gave him some freedom and it gave us peace of mind that he wouldn't get lost in the crowd or possibly kidnapped because we could keep good track of him. People shouldn't judge others for using a harness, there could be medical reasons why the harness is necessary.

To the original poster, I agree that you shouldn't deliberately pull/drag a child along by the harness causing them to stumble and fall, that is not acceptable behavior.
 


The first time we took our first grandchild to WDW we struggled with the idea of using a harness. I know there are a lot of people who find them objectionable and I too struggled with it but in the long run having the knowledge that my grandson would be safer with the harness then he would be without it helped us decide. We did use the harness, not all the time but when we were in the crowded parks and he wanted to be out of the stroller but didn't want to be held we would use the harness. It gave him some freedom and it gave us peace of mind that he wouldn't get lost in the crowd or possibly kidnapped because we could keep good track of him. People shouldn't judge others for using a harness, there could be medical reasons why the harness is necessary.

To the original poster, I agree that you shouldn't deliberately pull/drag a child along by the harness causing them to stumble and fall, that is not acceptable behavior.

I agree with what you are saying, though I don't think anybody would drag a toddler by the harness. For one thing, it doesn't work --the kid will just fall and cry and won't budge anymore -- he's got no wheels on him like luggage. What my DS2 does, if you try to get him to move when he doesn't want to, is that he would let his legs turn into jello and fall to the ground (and cry, of course). He does this whether I'm pulling him by hand or by harness, so I'm forced to pick him up. So after a tough day at the park, the mom might get mad that the toddler won't move, and just yell while he's down on the ground. The trick is, don't let yourself get to that point. Even at $400 a day or more "once in a lifetime trip", you gotta cut your losses and get out of there. Go back to the hotel and relax, and forget that fastpass to the fireworks. It's not worth it.
 
Some children behavior that CPS can consider:

Yesterday, my DS13 was sitting on the sofa, playing his iPad and minding his own business. As I watched, my DS2 picked up a toy bucket, went up to his brother, hit him on the leg with the bucket, then ran back towards me with a pathetic voice and tears in his eyes, "Mama! Mama!" So I held him and he stopped crying instantly. Then he made me put him down, went back to DS13, and hit him again! And ran away again before DS13 could grab him, running towards me, crying out "Mama! Mama!" with real tears bursting out of his eyes!

A friend of mine has a son who is over 30 years old now, a fine young man. I still remember back when he was six, my friend told me this story: she took him to the grocery store when he asked for candy. My friend said no. He suddenly started yelling, "Don't hit me! Don't hit me!" She just stood there, was total embarrassed, and did not know what to do!
 
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I also used a harness on DD when we took her to Disneyland when she was 13 months old. She did not want to ride in a stroller or be carried, so a harness was the best option. She was happy and it made for a memorable trip. I did hear a few comments about treating my child like a dog, but I ignored those who were blindly passing judgement.

I did the exact same thing! It was the 1 time I used it. I never heard any comments but probably wasn’t listening for them plus not their business. Not their kid.
 
I don't understand why parents find it necessary to take young children and babies to Disney. I guess we take them because we want to share our excitement or because we wanted to go when we were young but our parents didn't take us. Our adult children's memories of Disney vacations starts when they were 8 years of age, not their earlier vacations. We witnessed an overheated tired melt down of a very small child in a stroller. The Mother had finally had enough and yelled, "stop crying, you are in the happiest place in the world, damn it".

:earsboy: Bill

I find this sweeping generalization to be as unnecessary as the one that says there shouldn't be adults-only trips because Disney is a place for children.
 
Why use a harness when you can use a stroller?

Because not every kid likes being seated the entire time they're in a place. Kids do actually like to move around, and it's good for them.

We used a harness for my DS11 when he was a toddler. He was extremely active and could not sit still for long periods of time, but he was also prone to wander. The harness was a great compromise that allowed him a bit of freedom of movement, while still allowing me to keep him safe.

There were occasional people who felt like armchair parenting and made comments about treating my kid like a dog, but armchair parents don't live my life and can sit on their opinions while I continue being the parent I know my child needs :)
 
Unfortunately I'm not convinced that type of thing is all that uncommon with the harnesses.
We got my daughter a backpack that can be used as a harness because we were leaving her with her grandparents for a week at the peak of the "let me run off as fast as I can" phase and I had an overwhelming fear that she would get away from them in a parking lot. Luckily, they never needed to use it and I have never personally felt the need to.

Anyways, my daughter loves the backpack as just a backpack, but a couple weeks before our last WDW trip she wanted me to use the leash, so I put it on in our house. She immediately decided to test it out, ran pulled the leash tight and she went face first toward the ground, luckily I was able to grab her before she hit.
That was the end of playing with the leash, but I then noticed multiple toddlers going face first into the ground at WDW for the same reason. I don't think any of it was malicious intent by the parents, just a bad design of the harnesses.

Last week we were at a resort and DW saw a woman pulling a ~3 yo around by his hair. After telling me about it, she regretted not getting security or calling the police. I just can't believe what people will do to little kids.
 
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It's easy for you all to sit here and say how we have to protect kids, etc. It's easy to say "CPS is doing great work". It's easy to do that if you've never been subject to an investigation.

My daughter (8) pushed my son (6) down the stairs and broke his arm. At the hospital the doctor asked what happened. I told her that my daughter pushed my son down the stairs. She called CPS on me because I "blamed my daughter" and "an 8 year old is not responsible for their own actions".

It was months of hell. CPS can, and will, contact your employer, relatives, neighbors, child's school, etc. Their power is large and unwieldy and they will do ANYTHING to prove you are an unfit parent. I'm sitting in the interview and the CPS person is like "why did you blame your daughter for your son's injury" and I'm like "she pushed him down the stairs. What am I supposed to say when the doctor asks how he got the injury" and she's like 'you can't say your daughter pushed your son down the stairs. That is bad parenting." and I'm like "but that's what happened" and she's like "no, it's your fault because you LET your daughter push your son down the stairs".

CPS didn't care AT ALL about my son who had a broken arm. The entire focus of their "investigation" was my relationship with my daughter.

Spend 10 minutes on Google looking for "CPS out of control" and you will learn the truth.

This is something I've never understood about CPS. I've known multiple that have been harassed over nothing, but then I know kids in truly horrible situations that are completely ignored even when reported to CPS time and time again.
 
I don't understand why parents find it necessary to take young children and babies to Disney. I guess we take them because we want to share our excitement or because we wanted to go when we were young but our parents didn't take us. Our adult children's memories of Disney vacations starts when they were 8 years of age, not their earlier vacations. We witnessed an overheated tired melt down of a very small child in a stroller. The Mother had finally had enough and yelled, "stop crying, you are in the happiest place in the world, damn it".

:earsboy: Bill
My first memory is from a vacation right after I turned two. Swimming in the resort pool at sunset with my brother and my older cousin who was babysitting us. I finally asked my mom about it when I was 30 and she knew exactly what I was talking about.

Regardless, I've loved every trip I've take with DD and there have been many, starting at 6 months. Even when she had two teeth come in on my lap on an 8 hour flight to Hawaii in a 90 degree aircraft. She may not have memories into adulthood, but she has kept many for more than a year, the experiences teach her, and I will remember them for the rest of my life.
 
Should the mom have done it? No, probably not. But we have also all had our moments, on vacation and otherwise. I remember on one trip with took our 4 year old niece with us and she was whining every 5 minutes that she wanted to go to the pool. We had already been to the pool that day and were going to go again but every 5 minutes she was whining she wanted to go to the pool. If all we were going to do was go to a pool we could have stayed home. An hour or two into it my mom was just done and told her if she asked again she wouldn't go at all. No, she didn't slap her like the mom the story a PP posted, but she was close. But if she had, the person who saw it happen would have been like the PP and said how terrible it was. They wouldn't have seen the 2 hours of whining leading up to it. They wouldn't have known about the previous visit to the pool and the second visit planned for the afternoon. They wouldn't have seen the 3 tantrums that had occurred already in the day before we got to the park because she wasn't getting her way.

I struggle really hard in these situations to judge the parents. We just don't really know what is going on.
It is never okay to physically assault a child, a woman, or an animal. I don't care what the lead up to it is. If you ever get to the point that you feel the right answer is physical violence, it is time to get out of that situation any other way possible and if it is a reoccurring issue you probably need to seek anger management. It is better to leave a kid screaming on the bathroom floor and walk away for a few minutes, than to resort to physical abuse.

There is a huge difference in telling a kid if they don't behave that you won't take them to the pool and slapping them across the face. There is even a huge difference in proper spanking and slapping them across the face. I don't think anyone would ever try to justify a husband hitting his wife, regardless of the lead up, so why on earth should anyone ever try to justify an adult hitting a toddler?

I do agree in general that a few lines in an article don't give a clear picture and it could be overblown, and I agree a lot of negative interactions you see between parents and kids is a very small segment in time and the parent yelling a little is probably the worst it ever gets. However, in this case, a women bashing her head against a car hood hard enough to dent it, probably was being pretty rough with the child as well.
 
So....

Is everyone done telling others here how to parent with a stroller/harness? Are we all done here complaining about the bad CPS?

Because, if so, maybe we could focus the attention to a lady who (reportedly) dragged her kid in to a bathroom stall and (according to LEO's on the scene) became combative with them and also headbutted the police vehicle? I mean, we aren't really disputing that we shouldn't 'jump to conclusions' in her case and surely we aren't somehow trying to overshadow the safety of this child in the care of a woman who clearly isn't stable with stupid arguments about whether or not someone is parenting right by using a harness? Right?...
 
It is never okay to physically assault a child, a woman, or an animal. I don't care what the lead up to it is. If you ever get to the point that you feel the right answer is physical violence, it is time to get out of that situation any other way possible and if it is a reoccurring issue you probably need to seek anger management. It is better to leave a kid screaming on the bathroom floor and walk away for a few minutes, than to resort to physical abuse.

There is a huge difference in telling a kid if they don't behave that you won't take them to the pool and slapping them across the face. There is even a huge difference in proper spanking and slapping them across the face. I don't think anyone would ever try to justify a husband hitting his wife, regardless of the lead up, so why on earth should anyone ever try to justify an adult hitting a toddler?

I do agree in general that a few lines in an article don't give a clear picture and it could be overblown, and I agree a lot of negative interactions you see between parents and kids is a very small segment in time and the parent yelling a little is probably the worst it ever gets. However, in this case, a women bashing her head against a car hood hard enough to dent it, probably was being pretty rough with the child as well.


I don't mean to start trouble but isn't there a famous saying "Spare the rod, spoil the child"? I don't condone slapping or beating a child but an occasional smack on the behind is sometimes in order. My parents didn't beat/slap me but I did on very rare occasions receive a smack to my bottom (that I'm sure was deserved) and I grew up just fine, no emotional scares. I knew my parents loved me and they required me and my siblings to follow the rules. I learned to respect my parents and adults in general, follow the rules and have personal accountability for my actions. This learning starts at a very early age and unfortunately in todays world to many children don't learn these lessons. Parents today are afraid to discipline their children for fear that they will be turned in to social services and possibly loose their child.

While I was raising my children I didn't resort to hitting my children unless it was absolutely necessary. When they were bad I would make them "stand in the corner", on very rare occasions I did give them a smack (1) on their backsides. I raised two very good children who have grown up to be responsible and productive members of society.

My daughter doesn't believing in hitting her children saying how can I tell them not to hit if I am hitting them? This is a very valid point but sometimes a good swift smack to the bottom is in order. My daughter was telling me about taking her 4 year old daughter to pre-K on the first day of school, her daughter didn't want to hold her mothers hand in the parking lot and didn't even want her mother to walk her into school. She was throwing a temper tantrum in the school parking lot with all the other parents watching. I asked her why she didn't just give her a good swift smack to the behind, she said "because there were all the other parents around, I didn't want someone to turn me in and possibly have my daughter taken away from me". This is how it is today, people react to what they see without knowing all the facts. I'm sure if my daughter gave her daughter a quick smack on her behind she would have straighten up pretty fast, end of story.

I hope these comments will be taken in the way they are intended. I'm not trying to judge anyone else on how they feel a child should be disciplined and I don't want anyone to judge me for my thoughts. Sometimes when we are at Disney and I see the crying children and upset parents I think to myself "this is supposed to be the happiest place on earth". I think people need to learn to take Disney in small bites especially when they are traveling with young children.

I hope everyone has a "Magical Day"! pixiedust:
 
Why use a harness when you can use a stroller?

As others have mentioned, my son was smart enough when he was younger to figure out how to get out of the stroller. He would also defeat baby proofing gadgets around our home as well.

My son has Asperger's and when he was younger, he had sensory issues (thankfully, grown out of.) He was also a runner, and a very fast runner. He could make a break from you quickly. Much more quickly than you would expect. When he became too big to carry and could get out of the stroller, we had to use a harness on him.

We would occasionally get dirty looks in public, but we just smiled back and thought "if you only knew...."

Fortunately, the harness helped break him of running. He hated wearing it with a passion. We finally were able to reason with him and say, if you hold our hand and don't run away, we won't use the harness. It worked.
 
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