Why do you own DVC if you hate Disney?

Parking fees is not just about profit. It is part of Disney's eco-friendly plan. There are many spokes of the system one is for letting hotel guests forgo mousekeeping for a monetary benefit. Charging for cars will make more people leave their cars at home and just use the mass transit systems in place is another part. Yes they make money from it too but Disney is looking outside of the box to make better choices for the environment.
 
Parking fees is not just about profit. It is part of Disney's eco-friendly plan. There are many spokes of the system one is for letting hotel guests forgo mousekeeping for a monetary benefit. Charging for cars will make more people leave their cars at home and just use the mass transit systems in place is another part. Yes they make money from it too but Disney is looking outside of the box to make better choices for the environment.
I disagree. It's a multi-pronged money grab. If people leave cars at home, that means that they are completely in the Disney "bubble": visiting only Disney parks, eating only Disney food and spending every single one of their vacation dollars at Disney. They did not offer "free" Magical Express out of the goodness of their hearts or to help save the environment. They did it to trap people, and all their money, in the Disney "bubble". In the same vein, they did not start charging for parking to encourage people to use the buses.
 
And while we are on the subject - is there anyone but me on these boards who believes that Disney is honestly doing the best they can to deliver good entertainment at a reasonable cost (understanding that they are not a 501(c) and do actually need to make a profit and earn money for their investors so they can continue to do so)?

Hear Hear!! :thumbsup2
 
I don't hate Disney or DVC, but I imagine it's like my love/hate relationship with the NFL. I hate what the NFL has become. It's no longer fun to watch knowing that the players are literally killing themselves for our entertainment. It's sad to see how many people try to get into the NFL and never make it, and the physical toil they put their bodies through. And don't even get me started on the plight of college athletes and how the universities and colleges are making a mint off of student athletes. Also, when it comes to my son, I never want him to play football even though I played on my high school team and always as a kid.

But if I'm walking through an airport and see my team on the tv about to score, I will stop and watch. I'll watch every season of "Hard Knocks." I'll watch a NFL highlight reel.

I can't explain why I do it, I just do it.
 


Parking fees is not just about profit. It is part of Disney's eco-friendly plan. There are many spokes of the system one is for letting hotel guests forgo mousekeeping for a monetary benefit. Charging for cars will make more people leave their cars at home and just use the mass transit systems in place is another part. Yes they make money from it too but Disney is looking outside of the box to make better choices for the environment.

Sorry but with all the diesel busses, I just don’t buy that parking fees are part of Disney’s eco friendly plan. And I believe the gift card for skipping housekeeping at mods and values is more a function of they can’t hire enough people to do housekeeping and the $10 gift cards for buying overpriced Disney food or whatever is better than ponying up the hiring bonuses.
 
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Sorry but with all the diesel busses, I just don’t buy that parking fees are part of Disney’s eco friendly plan. And I believe the gift cards for skipping housekeeping at mods and values is more a function of they can’t hire enough people to do housekeeping and the $10 gift cards for buying overpriced Disney food or whatever is better than ponying up the hiring bonuses.
Don't they also have some natural gas buses? But none of them are electric. No battery that big.
 


Sorry but with all the diesel busses, I just don’t buy that parking fees are part of Disney’s eco friendly plan. And I believe the gift card for skipping housekeeping at mods and values is more a function of they can’t hire enough people to do housekeeping and the $10 gift cards for buying overpriced Disney food or whatever is better than ponying up the hiring bonuses.

Actually, Disney outfitted all of their fleet to run on Biodiesel. As far as I can tell (and it's difficult to find a good comparison), R50 biodiesel is better for the environment than Natural Gas buses. They can't effectively use batteries for their fleet, so that's probably about as clean as their buses can get with current technology. Beyond that, you have to move to other systems such as the monorails and Skyliner.
https://www.laughingplace.com/w/new...y-world-bus-fleet-to-run-on-renewable-diesel/
It should be noted that they use Natural Gas to power the Jungle Cruise and other attractions.
 
Yeah, Disney is really concerned about the environment. That is why they charge for parking so you use their transportation and why they stopped using plastic straws for the cheaper paper straws. They offer gift cards to not have housekeeping to save on washing linen-has nothing to do with new union contract that has them eventually paying $15 hr for the cast members. I also believe in Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy--wonder why I did not get anything when I lost a tooth in an accident a couple of years ago?
 
Yeah, Disney is really concerned about the environment. That is why they charge for parking so you use their transportation and why they stopped using plastic straws for the cheaper paper straws. They offer gift cards to not have housekeeping to save on washing linen-has nothing to do with new union contract that has them eventually paying $15 hr for the cast members. I also believe in Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy--wonder why I did not get anything when I lost a tooth in an accident a couple of years ago?
Not disagreeing with your larger point, but paper straws cost 5x-10x what plastic straws cost. And given how it could take more than one to get through dinner before becoming unusable, I'm guessing there isn't anything nefarious about the paper straws.
 
I disagree. It's a multi-pronged money grab. If people leave cars at home, that means that they are completely in the Disney "bubble": visiting only Disney parks, eating only Disney food and spending every single one of their vacation dollars at Disney. They did not offer "free" Magical Express out of the goodness of their hearts or to help save the environment. They did it to trap people, and all their money, in the Disney "bubble". In the same vein, they did not start charging for parking to encourage people to use the buses.

Our last two trips we had a car. When we got to WDW we parked the car (free of charge) and the car stayed there for the entire trip. My husband doesn't want to drive around WDW he would rather be able to look out the window on a bus and enjoy the sites without the stress of trying to figure out the correct road to take and dodging all the other crazy drivers. We don't feel "trapped", we enjoy our time at WDW and don't care to venture off site for dinning or shopping. I get plenty of shopping time when I'm home, I don't need to shop the outlet stores while I'm on my precious Disney time. I enjoy going into all the shops that are located on WDW property, no need to leave. JMHO.
 
Both parts of parking are true. They want to reduce emissions, and fewer cars on property helps. They also want you to be in the Disney bubble. They also don't want to have to build more lots or ramps - surface lots use valuable limited real estate and ramps are expensive to build. Parking lots also create run off problems - for somewhere with huge surface lots sitting on the edge of the fragile Everglades, parking lots are a PR problem - even if you don't give them any green motives themselves for wanting to reduce the number of cars on property. They are also a safety issue - more cars, higher chances of accidents involving Disney vehicles, more vacations impacted by hospital visits (never a highlight of vacation) and no matter who is at fault in those cases, Disney will get sued - they have deep pockets. Multiple motives for wanting fewer vehicles on the road, multiple approaches - from paying for parking at hotels, to higher parking fees at park, to Magical Express to gondolas. From Disney's standpoint, if they can both make or save money, reduce risk, AND it has a green upside - that's great.
 
Not disagreeing with your larger point, but paper straws cost 5x-10x what plastic straws cost. And given how it could take more than one to get through dinner before becoming unusable, I'm guessing there isn't anything nefarious about the paper straws.

Yep, if paper straws were cheaper, the restaurant industry wouldn't be fighting city ordinances for paper straws (and paper shopping bags) tooth and nail.
 
Why do you invest in that which you do not believe?
I've been around the Disneyana community for a while now, and this happens a lot. It's largely just part of human nature.

Disney is in the business of selling happiness. That's not the same thing as "Disney wants me, personally, to be happy." Of course, if I am happy, and I'm happy to give Disney my money because of it, great! But, they don't really care about me individually. I'm just one of many guests. If for some reason I stop coming back, there are enough others who are just starting their love affair to take my place, so it doesn't really matter.

Inevitably, if you hang around as a customer of the Parks & Resorts segment long enough (and that includes DVC, DCL, etc.) Disney will do something that strikes you as "wrong." Maybe they raise the price of something higher than you think it is worth. Maybe they change some policy arbitrarily that impacts you negatively. Maybe you just get to the point where you notice that, after all, not everything is perfectly Magical because these are real people who make the whole thing work and that inevitably means that some things don't work as well as they could.

When that happens with most companies, it's easier to shrug it off, because my relationship with those companies has always been a bit mercenary. But, when it first happened with Disney, it felt more like a personal violation. After all, Disney wanted me to be happy, right? Well, no not really. And the first time I realized that, it was significant. Observing many other long-time guests who go through this, it seems almost expected that it eventually happens to everyone.

And when I reached this point, I realized I could go one of two ways.

One: I can accept it. Disney is just a business, but one that is generally competent and tries to deliver a range of good experiences, some of which I am willing to pay for and others of which I am not. And, if I stay on the right side of the "willing to pay for it" line, understanding that sometimes things will be short of Perfectly Magical but usually they are close, I will find enough joy in the experience to keep doing it.

Two: I can decide that now that the illusion is broken, I'm done, because the marketing promise wasn't ever true.

Of course, it's not that simple. It takes a while to make it through this process, and during that time it's pretty easy to be bitterly disillusioned. I know, I've been there. It's also not a linear progression. You can go back and forth between "No, it really is Perfectly Magical," "Well, this is a good but imperfect thing," and "This is awful. I'm done." Given the nature of the folks who hang out on the DVC Boards---a mix of newcomers, multi-decade several-times-a-year visitors, and everything in between---you'll see people at all of these stages all of the time.

But, some of those people will be in the bitterly disillusioned stage but not yet ready to just walk away, because they haven't decided which way they are going. That's probably most of what you are seeing.
 
Yeah, Disney is really concerned about the environment. That is why they charge for parking so you use their transportation and why they stopped using plastic straws for the cheaper paper straws. They offer gift cards to not have housekeeping to save on washing linen-has nothing to do with new union contract that has them eventually paying $15 hr for the cast members. I also believe in Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy--wonder why I did not get anything when I lost a tooth in an accident a couple of years ago?

So here is one place I will definitely disagree with you. Disney is one of the more environmental friendly companies out there. Oh - don't get me wrong - they tout it and use it to their advantage and to make money, for sure. But they go further than is required by any law or regulation to be environmentally friendly. EVERY Disney resort maintains or exceeds the requirements to be a Florida Green Lodging hotel. Walt Disney World is an EPA Energy Star Partner. They contribute a large amount of resources to the Disney Wildlife Conservation Fund and of course the Disney Nature series. They now own National Geographic as well (through FOX). DCL was one of the few (the only?) cruise line to get an A rating I believe on environmental policy and conservation efforts. They cut emissions in 2018 by over 40% and diverted over 50% of their waste. They built a HUGE solar farm (and are building a bigger one?). Nearly 1/3rd of WDW is wildlife conservation.

Is this all "altruistic"? Surely not. Many of these save them money. For example, turning off the lights saves electricity which also saves them money. Upgrading vehicles saves on fuel costs. All of these policies do - in some way - give back. However, they are not all cost positive (such as the straws). That isn't to say Disney doesn't use the PR to their advantage. Of course they do (and I would, too). However, when you stand Disney up to similar companies, they do more than the average to maintain the environment and/or educate the public (which is just as important).

Do a little research before you spout nonsense.
https://www.thewaltdisneycompany.com/environment/https://www.arcgis.com/apps/MapJournal/index.html?appid=d8ab06e289194a368de7da28cea25b45https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/09/business/energy-environment/the-magic-kingdom-is-going-green.htmlhttps://www.tripsavvy.com/disney-environmentally-friendly-world-1514267https://www.cheatsheet.com/culture/how-green-is-disney.html/https://www.forbes.com/sites/edfene...orld-is-betting-on-clean-energy/#4b903c686722
 
Wow-TigerBouncy a little touchy there. I am very aware of the things Disney does regarding environmental policies. I will admit I was incorrect on the paper straw thing above, seems the paper straws are actually .025cents more expensive. I am not an apologist for Disney, but am a Capitalist at heart. So if they want to save money and institute policies that make them more money/and or save them money it is fine by me. But call a spade a spade, and do not try to hide behind being environmentally friendly.
 
I am a simple person and can put this simply for our consumption.
I love "Disney" as the visionaries, people who loved to delight people and put customers over profit. Disney the visionaries and Disney the man are long gone but still loved.
I love/hate "Disney" the corporation, which has turned the dream into a payment plan. My love is for the fact that in today's world of "practical implementation of limited resources" Disney is still keeping the dream alive, though at a higher cost and less affection than in the past.

Disney has and will always have a special place in my heart. Heck, grew up with it and still enjoy it. There is no denying though that it is a corporation with the sole purpose of delighting shareholders.
 
Of course, if you go back and look deep enough, Disney the man was also a human being, flawed, and not magical, who made himself into a very rich man selling a version of happiness - often on the backs of his employees who seldom got credit as well as his largely white middle class customers who could afford Disney - its films, its merchandise, and later its theme parks. He was a union buster and on the wrong side of HUAC. Did you know he couldn't even sign his own distinctive Disney name - that was done by another animator? (as an artist, he was rather mediocre - as a businessman, exceptional). He was not, by any means, a simple man.
 
Wow bah-humbug is what I say to this. I for one am very glad there was a Walt Disney who had the vision to create what we now know as WDW. I know he died before his dream was fully realized but if it wasn't for him we wouldn't have all the wonderful things that have come out of Walt Disney's dreams and imagination. If it was so easy we would all be able to achieve what he did. We all know he was human and not perfect, who among us is?

I don't like the reference to "white middle class customers who could afford Disney". I grew up watching "The Wonderful World of Disney" which instilled my love of Disney, this was not viewing just for "white middle class people" anyone was able to watch if they so desired. My family wasn't well to do by any means, my father worked hard and was very careful with his money. My mother made our clothes and I learned how to sew at an early age and made my own clothes when I was in high school because I couldn't afford to buy clothes ready made at the department stores. One year we did a cross country trip, camped most of the way. We were a family of 6, my youngest sister had downs syndrome, god bless my mother. My only request was to go to Disneyland. My wish was granted and we went, we spend one whole day, it was great, I lover every minute of it but I would have liked to spend two or three days but that wasn't in the cards due to money (I'm sure) and time. How many among us could achieve what he did with his limited education, don't put him down for not being able to sign his own name. Kids today aren't being taught cursive, guess they won't be able to sign their name either...Sorry if this is coming off as mean spirited but this post just struck a nerve in me.
 

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