When will Riviera resales be available

[TexasChick123]

Here's the thing, I fully expect Riviera to not only be desirable and popular, but hard to get into. I know they are selling 300 units, but I do think that it will be comparable to BLT and VGF in quality and accessibility. The trouble is that even with 300 units being sold, once 10% or so of those have turned over on the Resale market, there will be a significant number of people tied ONLY into Riviera. Combine that with the desirability and I honestly think it is going to be one of the hardest to get into and hardest to book. The people who can't go anywhere else will cause a real snowball effect. The most popular units are going to be gone right at the 11 month window, year round. Most of the rest will be booked before the 7 month window, and at the 7 month window the rest of the units will probably disappear every morning by 8:30 AM.

So you will see two things: One is that Riviera will be quite popular on the Rental Market. People who want it but don't own will be renting it out, a lot. The Second thing is, I think you are going to see a kind of strange 'trade' activity where people will be 'trading' out of Riviera, by going to the market, since they can't do it through Disney. It will be a kind of a "Hey, I will schedule a vacation for you at Riviera, if you will use your points to schedule me at your home resort." This will only work if Riviera truly is as popular and desirable as I think, but you might see things where 2 Riviera points is worth 3 points somewhere else.

However, I think this will be unique to Riviera. I don't see the same thing happening with Reflections. First of all, it has a much less desirable location. South shore of Bay Lake isn't that much farther away than the south shore of Seven Seas Lagoon, but mentally, it seems significantly farther, especially since you can't see the Magic Kingdom from there. And even if they put in a gondola to it, that gondola will go to one resort, MK rather than two, like Riviera. Second, I just don't think it will be as 'high class' as they are trying to make Riviera. Third, there will be so many units there. I keep hearing 900 to 1700 units, including hotel rooms and DVC. Most likely they will have many more DVC units than the 300 at Riviera. So there will be less desire to trade into DVC units there and more units to fill the demand.

Maybe I am wrong, but with the Resale restrictions on Reflections, and the lack of pent up demand, it might also be significantly harder for Disney to sell their units there. I guess time will tell.

I traded a BWV reservation for a VGC reservation this year as you described. The other owner and I agreed to make reservations for each other. In essence, we were renting out our points but the payment was an almost equal amount of points to trade.

 

[DaveNan]

In 30 to 60 days it will hit the OCC and we will know the exact numbers......

 

[Madame]

I still feel like, since this is so new AND THE SUPPLY AT RESALE IS SO LOW, SOMEBODY would have been willing to pay a bit more than that. As more of them come on the market in the future, it might be hard to keep the price up.

Why? Maybe an unrestricted resale, but why should a buyer pay more for a restricted contract that might become MORE restricted as time goes on when they can just buy direct for not that much more? I’m surprised it’s that high. I wouldn’t pay $130.

ETA. I see that it sold for under $130. Sub $80 with the high point chart & MF is where I might consider purchasing. Otherwise OKW SSR BRV are all more attractive.

 

[katandmouse]

I’m so surprised that there has already been a Riviera resale, only what, 4 months after direct sales started? I was expecting the first resale to be sometime in the winter, after the resort opened. I do feel sorry for the owner who had to sell.

I think people have made a lot of good points - I could see the resale price potentially rising next year if the resort is truly luxury/checks all the boxes And it proves difficult to book. I’m just skeptical about that - personally I don’t see it being on par with VGF, maybe BLT. But I keep coming back to AKV. I mean, AKV is such a unique amazing resort but doesn’t command a higher price, I think because of size and location (and maybe high dues). So in my mind Riviera pricing should fall somewhere between BLT and AKV, without the restrictions. With the restrictions, I couldn’t see paying higher than AKV.

I wonder about the buyer too, to commit for 50 years to one resort that hasn’t even opened yet (and potentially have more restrictions added). Although I guess when you’re buying resale at that price chances are better you could turn around and sell for similar.

I’m so curious about all this.

 

[Bing Showei]

Not gonna lie, didn't see that coming; totally missed on the first-contract prediction. Granted, it is just one data point. Even two points don't make a trend. But if a few more come up like this one, I'll have to concede I completely misread Riviera.

Not convinced any of that will matter though, in terms of Disney policy, as resale is apparently such a small component of Disney timeshare ownership. As long as they're able to sell a resort once, I’m sure Disney will be happy to sell, pack up camp, and move in to the next town where there will be tons of people lining up around the corner to buy.

 

[katandmouse]

I just saw that on Facebook. If it hadn't already sold, I'd be tempted to throw in an offer. There is no way that makes it through ROFR though.

I think it might pass ROFR. DVC doesn’t typically ROFR resorts in active sales; look at CCV, AUL, even PVB isn’t being taken back. Plus, didn’t DVC want to differentiate between direct and resale? Well, looks like they’ve achieved that now!

Maybe I am wrong, but with the Resale restrictions on Reflections, and the lack of pent up demand, it might also be significantly harder for Disney to sell their units there. I guess time will tell.

I agree with you about Reflections. The demand for Riviera is probably enough to keep driving direct sales (and with the incentives, I admit it is appealing), but I don’t see the same need for Reflections with CCV and BRV right next door, plus the other MK resorts. Maybe that’s the point when DVC will revert the resale restrictions. (I keep hoping.)

 

[TexasChick123]

I think everyone needs to take a few steps back. Some think this price is too high and some too low. It is one person deciding to sell. We have absolutely no idea what the circumstances are. Here are some of the MANY possible scenarios:

1) death in the family
2) job loss
3) divorce
4) one spouse purchased without consulting the other, as we have seen happens
5) medical issues where they need cash now
6) bankruptcy
7) so many other possibilities...

I am not surprised in the slightest that there is already a Riviera listing. Apparently, VGF had a resale listing 2 or 2.5 months after sales began. Life is completely unpredictable. To make all these assumptions is silly IMO because none of us have any idea what happened. Also, the listing was live for less than a day before the person took an offer less than asking which means this seller really needs the money for some reason. I think something pretty bad happened to this seller or sellers whether it be financial or personal to take such a loss, and people need to be sensitive to that. Climbing down off my high horse now...

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

... Plus, didn’t DVC want to differentiate between direct and resale? Well, looks like they’ve achieved that now!

That they did! It's not going to work very well if resale prices drop low but why shouldn't they on the resorts with booking restrictions like Riviera? And the "benefits" aren't worth enough to make up the difference in most cases. Throw in them showing exactly how benefits can be pulled at any moment like they did with TOTWL for July 4th on 3 weeks notice after they said it would be open for members staying at BLT? Just pay Disney cash for a room - DVC isn't the only way to stay onsite and the current management is not exactly trust worthy nor even looking out for their direct purchase members which is supposedly part of their justification for imposing resale restrictions. Of course it really wasn't - it was always $$$'s. Otherwise buy resale for as low as you can negotiate.

 

[Frederic Civish]

The only way Disney comes out ahead on their Direct sales compared to Resales is if somehow they can use Resales to increase their Direct sales. In order to increase their Direct sales at the expense of Resales they must make the Direct sales look better then the Resales. The Direct sales don't need to be 'worth it' compared to Resales, they only need to look like it enough so that they can convince people to buy Direct.

How might they do this?

* Raising the price of resales would help because then the Resales would be closer in price to Direct, and more people would be willing to pay the little bit extra for Direct. But it seems that Disney has taken the opposite tack.

* Increasing the apparent value of Direct sales compared to Resales does appear to be something they have done with Riviera and the restrictions on resales.

* However that has a Corollary which is that Riviera will now sell for less than other resorts at the resale Market, and this will percolate back up to the purchaser pool to a degree and discourage people from buying Riviera.

* So their restrictions on Riviera resales help on one head but will hurt on the other hand. I guess Disney is betting more on a positive result, but only time will tell.

* The third point that Disney is probably missing is that when the Direct buyers actually do resell their Riviera contracts at a significantly lower price because of the restrictions, then that lower price will make the Resales more worthwhile to the purchasers. People will then buy Riviera Resales because of the extremely low price. So this will once again end up sucking customers away from Direct sales.

In the end, it looks like Disney is trying to walk a tightrope on this one. I'm sure they are only going off their best predictions, but those predictions are in entirely new territory. Disney might come out smelling like a rose, or they might fall off a cliff.

But I predict that even if they do well here at Riviera, the wheels will fall off with Reflections.

 

[suemom2kay]

I'm shocked! SHOCKED I tell you!

It is amazing to me that someone was willing to take such a large loss after buying it only a couple of months ago. They must have paid cash for it and needed money back quickly, since, if they still owed Disney for most of it, there is no way they would be selling at that price.

Or the owner died, and the heir(s) don't have a desire to use the property. My resale was one of a number of contracts sold from a trust. Death happens, and family often just want to close the loose ends. Just a thought.

 

[Anthony Vito]

Or the owner died, and the heir(s) don't have a desire to use the property. My resale was one of a number of contracts sold from a trust. Death happens, and family often just want to close the loose ends. Just a thought.

Doesn't even have to be wanting to close loose ends - could be a direction to sell any real estate interests and divide the proceeds. This is not uncommon - many reasons people include a direction to sell and cash out property and then distribute. If that's the case, there's no choice really - have to sell.

 

[suemom2kay]

Doesn't even have to be wanting to close loose ends - could be a direction to sell any real estate interests and divide the proceeds. This is not uncommon - many reasons people include a direction to sell and cash out property and then distribute. If that's the case, there's no choice really - have to sell.

Very good point.

 

[Frederic Civish]

Doesn't even have to be wanting to close loose ends - could be a direction to sell any real estate interests and divide the proceeds. This is not uncommon - many reasons people include a direction to sell and cash out property and then distribute. If that's the case, there's no choice really - have to sell.

That could easily explain the behavior. Post the sale quickly and take the first decent offer that comes up, because you don't want to delay the money distribution to the inheritors.

I'm sorry if this is the case. My condolences to everyone. We might not know each other, but I feel like we are family, because we have been connected through a shared love of Disney. May the Lord bless you all.

 

[Littlelulu01]

Aulani is actively in direct sales. They have podiums set up around the resort and I’m sure they are selling aulani every day to folks caught up in the moment. Some get buyers remorse just like with any larger purchase and end up selling at a big hit once the “new car smell” wears off.

The two actively pitched dvc resorts definitely have pros and cons. Aulani resale doesn’t qualify for Rivera forward and Rivera resale doesn’t qualify for anything except Rivera. Rivera has more use years and aulani has better purchase incentives.

If aulani can be easily had in the $80-$90 & $95 subsidized, I’d think dvc is fine with Rivera resale value about the same or less. I personally wouldn’t touch it even at $90 with the resale restrictions. Somewhere in low 80’s would tempt me. Since Rivera is wdw property it will likely resell a little higher than Aulani.

 

[aoconnor]

Honestly, I don't think $130 is a low price for a contract that size. Direct with incentives it's $177pp for 175 points plus you save another couple dollars in closing costs so call it $175 apples to apples.

A $45pp discount for awfully severe restrictions sounds reasonable to me.

 

[jerseyduke]

(snip)
all resale contracts on the market have gone down in value
(snip)

They have????????

 

[Bing Showei]

(snip)
all resale contracts on the market have gone down in value
(snip)

They have????????

They haven’t. That was my point when I said...

My point in all this is that to me, personally, all resale contracts on the market have gone down in value, yet prices continue to defy gravity and I’m at a loss to explain steadily rising BLT and BCV prices. So what do I know?

What point are you trying to make?

 

[DougEMG]

Honestly, I don't think $130 is a low price for a contract that size. Direct with incentives it's $177pp for 175 points plus you save another couple dollars in closing costs so call it $175 apples to apples.

A $45pp discount for awfully severe restrictions sounds reasonable to me.

Personally I don't think that was a big enough discount based on the restrictions
For that I would have probably bought direct.

 

[The Jackal]

Honestly, I don't think $130 is a low price for a contract that size. Direct with incentives it's $177pp for 175 points plus you save another couple dollars in closing costs so call it $175 apples to apples.

A $45pp discount for awfully severe restrictions sounds reasonable to me.

I thought it was sold below the asking price of $130. We will find out soon what the agreed price was.

 

[The Jackal]

Aulani is actively in direct sales. They have podiums set up around the resort and I’m sure they are selling aulani every day to folks caught up in the moment. Some get buyers remorse just like with any larger purchase and end up selling at a big hit once the “new car smell” wears off.

The two actively pitched dvc resorts definitely have pros and cons. Aulani resale doesn’t qualify for Rivera forward and Rivera resale doesn’t qualify for anything except Rivera. Rivera has more use years and aulani has better purchase incentives.

If aulani can be easily had in the $80-$90 & $95 subsidized, I’d think dvc is fine with Rivera resale value about the same or less. I personally wouldn’t touch it even at $90 with the resale restrictions. Somewhere in low 80’s would tempt me. Since Rivera is wdw property it will likely resell a little higher than Aulani.

DVC has problems selling Aulani. If RIV resale was at $80, I bet DVC would be very upset. This resort is supposed to be the VGF for Epcot. VGF resale is crazy high right now.