What can or should Disney do about the crowds?

[disneysteve]

If I was Disney and my plan was to allow for negative experience - and thus negative word of mouth - to be the solution, that just doesn't seem like the best impact to the brand

Exactly. If this is actually their plan (not that they'd ever say so publicly) then the problems are far bigger than we realize.

 

[disneysteve]

Ultimately, a big part of the problem is that the parks were designed for fewer people. The width of the walkways, the size of the shops, the capacity of the rides were all done with fewer guests in mind, especially on older rides. There has been some retrofitting like redesigning the hub area of MK or adding a 3rd track to Toy Story Mania, but they can't make Main Street wider or boost capacity on Spaceship Earth.

Things need to be built in scale though too. It wouldn’t make sense to have a giant Main Street with the buildings being the size they are.

Although, as I said, Disney has made some changes where they could, to help with the crowding. Just recently there was a story about them removing benches from Disneyland to improve crowd flow through the park, so sometimes the changes needed are relatively simple. The hard part is how to improve flow without negatively impacting the experience. For example, we've been in MK when the Main Street bypass was open (the street that runs behind the right side as you face the castle). We took that route but we've been on Main Street hundreds of times so didn't feel we were missing anything but the crowd. But do you want first timers being funneled onto that route and bypassing that first experience of walking down Main Street and getting their photos of the castle?

They've also expanded shops, like making The Emporium one giant store behind the left side facades, even eliminating one side street in the process. It's better for crowds, sort of, but it forever changed the Main Street experience.

Obviously, I don't have the solution. I just know it's an ever-growing problem and I fear that sometime soon, it's going to hit a breaking point.

 

[rteetz]

Although, as I said, Disney has made some changes where they could, to help with the crowding. Just recently there was a story about them removing benches from Disneyland to improve crowd flow through the park, so sometimes the changes needed are relatively simple. The hard part is how to improve flow without negatively impacting the experience. For example, we've been in MK when the Main Street bypass was open (the street that runs behind the right side as you face the castle). We took that route but we've been on Main Street hundreds of times so didn't feel we were missing anything but the crowd. But do you want first timers being funneled onto that route and bypassing that first experience of walking down Main Street and getting their photos of the castle?

They've also expanded shops, like making The Emporium one giant store behind the left side facades, even eliminating one side street in the process. It's better for crowds, sort of, but it forever changed the Main Street experience.

Obviously, I don't have the solution. I just know it's an ever-growing problem and I fear that sometime soon, it's going to hit a breaking point.

On the topic of the bypass I often feel they don’t use it enough. I myself have never been there when it is in use.

 

[hertamaniac]

If I was Disney and my plan was to allow for negative experience - and thus negative word of mouth - to be the solution, that just doesn't seem like the best impact to the brand

Oh, I'm certainly not suggesting it is a good strategy, but at least recognize it as an option. I have seen that two AP increases in less than 1 year has soured my viewpoint towards WDW and that is without the crowd factor. Interesting article to support this:
Is Disney World trying to price out it's annual passholders?

 

[rteetz]

Oh, I'm certainly not suggesting it is a good strategy, but at least recognize it as an option. I have seen that two AP increases in less than 1 year has soured my viewpoint towards WDW and that is without the crowd factor. Interesting article to support this:
Is Disney World trying to price out it's annual passholders?

I’m not a big fan of the Motley Fools take on Disney often so I didn’t read the full article but no I don’t think WDW is trying to price out APs yet. Not like Disneyland at least. Disneyland has a much larger AP problem than WDW does.

 

[hertamaniac]

I'm already there.

For the first time in my life, I have absolutely zero desire to visit WDW, whether in the near or distant future.

I'll give Disneyland another shot, though. And definitely the overseas parks.

But WDW? Nah, I'm good.

I can understand that, but I still have the desire to visit WDW. But, I know we've reached the tipping point and will take a year or two sabbatical. Now, that is only because we our local and had AP's; if I was in a different demographic, my viewpoint would likely be dramatically different.

 

[hertamaniac]

I’m not a big fan of the Motley Fools take on Disney often so I didn’t read the full article but no I don’t think WDW is trying to price out APs yet. Not like Disneyland at least. Disneyland has a much larger AP problem than WDW does.

I understand, but I think the author is using a % increase reference across an annual range to put it into context.

If WDW AP's get another "double-dip" in increases next year, then I'd say there is concerted effort to slow down the AP attendance.

 

[disneysteve]

I think that article is reasonable. It makes sense that they don't need to cater to the AP holders as much when the place is packed already. And when SW: GE opens, it will be mobbed. From a business standpoint, it's probably better to sell $100+ daily tickets than $800 annual passes.

 

[DLgal]

Cap daily in park attendance to a much lower number. Shut the gates until enough people leave to allow more people to enter. Make every ticket a park hopper by default. Direct people to other parks that aren't close to or at capacity via app notifications or social media real time updates. Simple.

 

[disneysteve]

On the topic of the bypass I often feel they don’t use it enough. I myself have never been there when it is in use.

Well, the problem is it's an almost entirely un-themed space. If they want to use it regularly, they need more than the rolling carts with the fake bushes and some posters on the fence. They would need to build it up as an extension of Main Street.

 

[disneysteve]

Cap daily in park attendance to a much lower number.

Which would also mean raising the prices to compensate, but I don't necessarily have a problem with that.

 

[hertamaniac]

Cap daily in park attendance to a much lower number. Shut the gates until enough people leave to allow more people to enter. Make every ticket a park hopper by default. Direct people to other parks that aren't close to or at capacity via app notifications or social media real time updates. Simple.

Resource leveling is a generally good idea based on my experiences. However, I can see the scenario where the guests will want/need to transport to another park only to find that one has also just hit capacity. I do wonder how that scenario would impact the guest experience. Maybe there could be FP kiosks at each park exit that would essentially reserve your entrance at a park that is not at capacity? I just don't know.

I guess another question I would have is CM staffing. How would we level CM's across all 4 parks for these crowd shifts? Perhaps that is done already to some degree.

 

[DLgal]

Resource leveling is a generally good idea based on my experiences. However, I can see the scenario where the guests will want/need to transport to another park only to find that one has also just hit capacity. I do wonder how that scenario would impact the guest experience. Maybe there could be FP kiosks at each park exit that would essentially reserve your entrance at a park that is not at capacity? I just don't know.

I guess another question I would have is CM staffing. How would we level CM's across all 4 parks for these crowd shifts? Perhaps that is done already to some degree.

I would imagine you would simply staff all parks "full up" every day, operating on the assumption that they will all reach capacity at some point. It seems that if they limit attendance they can also lower the staffing levels overall. Let's say right now MK capacity is 75,000 per day. You need X number of cast members when the park is full. Now, say they knock maximum capacity down to 40,000 per day. You now need approximately 50% fewer staff. Knowing exactly how many people will be in the park each day will allow them to streamline park operations and operate with fewer overall CMs. They could also go to an entirely reservation based system, which will force ALL park goers to choose a specific day to visit and require a reservation to gain entry. They could allow spontaneous entry to a set number of guests, in order to account for no shows or last minute planners.

Oh, and if they were to move to this model, they would have to eliminate FP+ and switch over to Disneyland's Maxpass system, which gives people an equal playing field every day.

 

[KingLlama]

One other option is to exponentially increase Duffy's presence at each of the four parks, thereby drastically reducing the crowds at those parks.

 

[sharadoc]

Things need to be built in scale though too. It wouldn’t make sense to have a giant Main Street with the buildings being the size they are.

Or they could create other walkways from the Train Station end direct to Adventureland and Tomorrowland. Then Main St is mostly Fantasyland and Frontierland crowds or those of us who want to linger for the shopping and entertainment.

 

[disneysteve]

One other option is to exponentially increase Duffy's presence at each of the four parks, thereby drastically reducing the crowds at those parks.

Or drastically increasing the number of Japanese visitors.

 

[disneysteve]

I guess another question I would have is CM staffing. How would we level CM's across all 4 parks for these crowd shifts?

One option is to shift to dated tickets. Then Disney could know how many people will come each day (plus AP holders). Plenty of other tourist attractions do this, though none on the scale that would occur at Disney.

The new tickets move a step in that direction with the shorter window to use the days. A 3-day ticket is now only good for 5 days so Disney has a much better handle on how many people will be in the parks those days than they did when a 3-day pass was good forever, or even for 14 days.

 

[hertamaniac]

I would imagine you would simply staff all parks "full up" every day, operating on the assumption that they will all reach capacity at some point. It seems that if they limit attendance they can also lower the staffing levels overall. Let's say right now MK capacity is 75,000 per day. You need X number of cast members when the park is full. Now, say they knock maximum capacity down to 40,000 per day. You now need approximately 50% fewer staff. Knowing exactly how many people will be in the park each day will allow them to streamline park operations and operate with fewer overall CMs. They could also go to an entirely reservation based system, which will force ALL park goers to choose a specific day to visit and require a reservation to gain entry. They could allow spontaneous entry to a set number of guests, in order to account for no shows or last minute planners.

Oh, and if they were to move to this model, they would have to eliminate FP+ and switch over to Disneyland's Maxpass system, which gives people an equal playing field every day.

Interesting. I see this as an option with potentially negative ancillary effects.

I would think that by capping attendance numbers down would have an adverse effect on food/merchandise pricing. The volume of sales would likely go down and drive the WDW purchasing leverage lower. But, your direct labor on CM's, as you point out, would be significantly reduced. I am not sure if that would be sufficient to offset the food/merchandise increase that I would anticipate.

 

[hertamaniac]

One option is to shift to dated tickets.

Yep. And as such, staffing and even food/merchandise could be mapped out to support this model. Now the accuracy of that model........

 

[SL6827]

I don’t think Disney has any incentive to control crowds since people keep coming no matter the cost. They encourage crowds - not the other way around.

I think there are only two things that would control crowds.

1) An economic recession or dare I say depression. (Job numbers have never been better. The economy has been raging in recent years and Americans have a lot more to spend. So increased tickets prices are flame-resistant at this point.)

2) A catastrophic event. (Such as 911, when the crowds sort of disappeared overnight.)

And since both of those options would be horrific for this country, let’s hope they never happen.

This pretty much sums up what is going to thin the crowds back down. Sad to say, but this is it.