'Waiting for Riviera' Info Thread (Update including LONGER press event 10.25.19)

crvetter

DIS Veteran
Joined
Nov 26, 2018
As far as I know, it would be the only deluxe sharing with a moderate at wdw if it shared with Caribbean.
Actually WL shares with FW occasionally, but FW isn't often viewed as moderate always (though Disney does classify it in that bracket for the cabins).
 

summerw

DIS Veteran
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
Actually WL shares with FW occasionally, but FW isn't often viewed as moderate always (though Disney does classify it in that bracket for the cabins).
True, I didn’t think of that. FW does seem to be in its own category kinda. I could see the point made either way, neither of which probably have any bearing on what they will do with DRR buses. It’s fun to randomly hypothesize though. Just over two months!!
 

emchen

Let's explore!
Joined
Jul 4, 2019
If anyone on these boards is still considering Riviera on the basis that it will be the first of the DVC2 resorts (as I was), the revision comprehensively dispels that theory.
@Mumof4mice ...I just read this on the resale restriction thread. Went through several pages of the thread, but not the legal bible that is the Public Offering Statement, in search of the reasoning behind your statement. Can you give me and other interested members the Cliff's Notes version?
 
  • Tonberry

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Dec 21, 2014
    We were also told that the Riviera would have it's own busses.
    And honestly, I can't see them sharing with CBR. CBR's busses are always packed. And sometimes they don't even finish the internal loop before heading to the parks.
     

    dmurf01

    Disney fan
    Joined
    Sep 2, 2019
    Hi everyone. We purchased 240 points at Riviera and are looking forward to our first trip home in March. We have a cash trip this month at CB and my wife is going with her friends on a cash trip in early December. Looking forward to all future trips to be DVC.
     

    summerw

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Oct 23, 2011
    Hi everyone. We purchased 240 points at Riviera and are looking forward to our first trip home in March. We have a cash trip this month at CB and my wife is going with her friends on a cash trip in early December. Looking forward to all future trips to be DVC.
    Jealous of all your trips! And your points, lol. Since we live near Disneyland, we started small, but I've already got add-on-itis to have enough for one bedrooms.

    Please let us know how your trips go! Are you planning to ride the Skyliner? We loved it.
     

    summerw

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Oct 23, 2011
    We were also told that the Riviera would have it's own busses.
    And honestly, I can't see them sharing with CBR. CBR's busses are always packed. And sometimes they don't even finish the internal loop before heading to the parks.
    Fingers crossed! :-)
     

    Mumof4mice

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    May 4, 2018
    @Mumof4mice ...I just read this on the resale restriction thread. Went through several pages of the thread, but not the legal bible that is the Public Offering Statement, in search of the reasoning behind your statement. Can you give me and other interested members the Cliff's Notes version?
    Hi @emchen ,
    The membership saw a whirlwind of changes in 2018, beginning with the MF increase, attempted (and retracted) point chart reallocations, culminating in the announcement of the Riviera resale restrictions. Truth be told, I didn't care enough to take action until a friend told me they were selling out of irritation. @crvetter , @ziravan , @Bing Showei and many other members read into the POS in more detail and will be able to answer specific questions far better than I can.

    When the Riviera resale restrictions were announced, I thought it might have been the first step toward creation of "DVC 2", a new group of resorts that would trade amongst themselves. I could see the benefits (for Disney) in the segregation of future builds from the existing DVC resorts. Creating a new club with it's own trading company = clean slate to structure POS, point charts, and "perks" for future resorts any way they like. It could even encourage existing owners to add points at DVC2 resorts.

    Surely Disney was restricting Riviera resale owners from the L14, not all future resorts? I couldn't see the logic for Disney to implement a change so devastating to all Riviera purchasers, should they need to sell, and so damaging to public relations, for a short term boost to their bottom line. But the POS revision document I obtained stated otherwise. Riviera resale owners were indeed restricted to home resort only. Further, direct buyers were free to trade into all resorts, while post-1.19 resale buyers of L14 could not trade into future resorts.

    I don't have an issue with not being able to trade into future DVC resorts. No owner, direct or resale, was guaranteed that. The POS explicitly states that DVD does not guarantee any future resort would be built, or that we would be able to access them. In fact, existing amenities are not guaranteed to continue to exist - what would VGF be worth without GF, the monorail and Magic Kingdom? We bought accepting the risk of complete disaster, trusting Disney's self interest of staying in business would keep the theme parks and hotels running.

    However, if Disney wanted to tap into existing resorts to sell Riviera and Reflections instead of waiting for DVC 2's own halo resort, I expect the trading terms to be equitable. If post 1.19 resale owners from my home resorts aren't allowed to trade out (our resales were grandfathered), allowing new direct purchasers to trade in is an unequal situation, IMO. I'm still surprised and unimpressed Disney made that business decision.

    Having said that, we don't let our annoyance with DVC management affect our enjoyment of the parks and DVC resorts. Our opinion is DVC should be viewed in the same category as vacations and cars; only bought with entertainment budget that would have 100% disappeared. When one takes that position, expectations and therefore disappointment are low.
     
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    emchen

    Let's explore!
    Joined
    Jul 4, 2019
    Hi @emchen ,
    <snip> Riviera resale owners were indeed restricted to home resort only. Further, direct buyers were free to trade into all resorts, while post-1.19 resale buyers of L14 could not trade into future resorts.<snip>
    @Mumof4mice ...thank you so much for taking time to write such a clear and detailed explanation.

    I'm not convinced that the impact on the resale market will be as bad as people fear.

    Here's why: everyone is missing the forest for the trees. They are overlooking the fact that DVD has segregated owners into three de facto groups by its recent actions, and the third group is so small that it may never be relevant in the long run.

    Group 1. (L14+): Direct and Resale (pre 1/19) owners...most owners (>80%). Growing as a percentage...Direct is always adding to its ranks. Resale (pre 1/19) will never be larger than it is today.

    Group 2. (L14 only): Resale (post 1/19) owners...a minority of owners (<20%). Resale (post 1/19) will continue to add, but at a rate lower than Direct owners. Shrinking as a percentage.

    Group 3. (exclusive to "new" resort): Resale owners of a "new" resort...very few owners (<1%). See group 2. Shrinking as a percentage.

    A group comprising < 1% of the overall ownership pool will not have the impact on the resale market that many fear.

    Having said that, we don't let our annoyance with DVC management affect our enjoyment of the parks and DVC resorts. Our opinion is DVC should be viewed in the same category as vacations and cars; only bought with entertainment budget that would have 100% disappeared. When one takes that position, expectations and therefore disappointment are low.
    AMEN to this!
     
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    dmurf01

    Disney fan
    Joined
    Sep 2, 2019
    @Mumof4mice ...thank you so much for taking time to write such a clear and detailed explanation.

    I'm not convinced that the impact on the resale market will be as bad as people fear.

    Here's why: everyone is missing the forest for the tress. They are overlooking the fact that DVD has segregated owners into three de facto groups by its recent actions, and the third group is so small that it may never be relevant in the long run.

    Group 1. (L14+): Direct and Resale (pre 1/19) owners...most owners (>80%). Growing as a percentage...Direct is always adding to its ranks. Resale (pre 1/19) will never be larger than it is today.

    Group 2. (L14 only): Resale (post 1/19) owners...a minority of owners (<20%). Resale (post 1/19) will continue to add, but at a rate lower than Direct owners. Shrinking as a percentage.

    Group 3. (exclusive to "new" resort): Resale owners of a "new" resort...very few owners (<1%). See group 2. Shrinking as a percentage.

    A group comprising < 1% of the overall ownership pool will not have the impact on the resale market that many fear.



    AMEN to this!
    I was thinking similarly for the groupings. Something to review over time is if enough new direct purchases continuously get added to Group 1 to offset the people moving from 1 to 2 or 3 by selling and purchasing post 1/19. What we also don't know is as Riviera actively appears for resale is if there will be more people who live the new resorts so much that they are fine with Group 3 and don't care about not being able to stay at the other resorts. I think time will tell. There could be other factors in the mix no one is thinking of. We'll see.
     

    emchen

    Let's explore!
    Joined
    Jul 4, 2019
    Something to review over time is if enough new direct purchases continuously get added to Group 1 to offset the people moving from 1 to 2 or 3 by selling and purchasing post 1/19.
    Growth of Group 1 will always offset Groups 2&3...and by a mile.

    It goes without saying that resale owners will comprise an enlarging proportion of any Single resort as it matures. I read somewhere that the number ranges from around < 5% for new resorts (eg. CCV, AUL ), to “newish” (VGC, VGF) around 10%, while a mature resort like SSR is around 20%. Meanwhile each addition of a “new” resort will mean new direct contract owners whose numbers will far outpace Group 2 and 3 owners.
     

    crvetter

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Nov 26, 2018
    Growth of Group 1 will always offset Groups 2&3...and by a mile.

    It goes without saying that resale owners will comprise an enlarging proportion of any Single resort as it matures. I read somewhere that the number ranges from around < 5% for new resorts (eg. CCV, AUL ), to “newish” (VGC, VGF) around 10%, while a mature resort like SSR is around 20%. Meanwhile each addition of a “new” resort will mean new direct contract owners whose numbers will far outpace Group 2 and 3 owners.
    Here is a good thread that attempted to see the turn over rate of the resorts. It ended up being far less than expected on the boards. Though I believe it did show that SSR has the largest number of points in resale, by a fair amount, of any of the resorts but proportional to the entire points of the resort it’s only a bit ahead of the average. But that’s because it’s the largest resort. But OKW the oldest is at 20% and SSR is at 14%.

     

    emchen

    Let's explore!
    Joined
    Jul 4, 2019
    Here is a good thread that attempted to see the turn over rate of the resorts. It ended up being far less than expected on the boards. Though I believe it did show that SSR has the largest number of points in resale, by a fair amount, of any of the resorts but proportional to the entire points of the resort it’s only a bit ahead of the average. But that’s because it’s the largest resort. But OKW the oldest is at 20% and SSR is at 14%.

    Ah yes... bet thats where I saw it thank you!
    ...probably strongest argument that resale restrictions will have little effect on overall DVC resale market. Macro trends are going to remain the driver there.
     

    mom2elle

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Apr 10, 2011
    Hi! We visited Disney (CBR) this past weekend (Oct11-15), and after years of considering DVC we took the plunge and bought at Riviera! We are so excited - and have our first trip booked for Aug 2020. Can’t wait to learn more about Riviera in the coming months!
     

    sethschroeder

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Feb 24, 2013
    Group 3. (exclusive to "new" resort): Resale owners of a "new" resort...very few owners (<1%). See group 2. Shrinking as a percentage.

    A group comprising < 1% of the overall ownership pool will not have the impact on the resale market that many fear.
    What? Who is saying it will effect L14 resort resale prices? The impact is about RIV resale pricing specifically from what I have read.
     

    summerw

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Oct 23, 2011
    Hi! We visited Disney (CBR) this past weekend (Oct11-15), and after years of considering DVC we took the plunge and bought at Riviera! We are so excited - and have our first trip booked for Aug 2020. Can’t wait to learn more about Riviera in the coming months!
    Welcome home, neighbor! Congrats on your purchase!! We'd been considering for a while too! I'm so excited about the opening. We looked around a little when we were there earlier this month and toured the models. I was shocked how much more beautiful there were in person! I'll be trying to post everything I see!
     

    Brianstl

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Sep 8, 2019
    What? Who is saying it will effect L14 resort resale prices? The impact is about RIV resale pricing specifically from what I have read.
    It only takes a few really cheap WDW DVC contracts on the market to apply downward pressure on the other WDW properties. It has a psychological effect on what buyers think other properties are worth.
     

    emchen

    Let's explore!
    Joined
    Jul 4, 2019
    What? Who is saying it will effect L14 resort resale prices? The impact is about RIV resale pricing specifically from what I have read.
    It is the conventional wisdom of many longtime DISBoarders.
    Yeah I think you are right, it primarily impacts the individual trying to sell.
    That’s my point as well, that speculation that it will “destroy” the resale market is overblown.
    It only takes a few really cheap WDW DVC contracts on the market to apply downward pressure on the other WDW properties. It has a psychological effect on what buyers think other properties are worth.
    That is the “conventional wisdom”...Pretty tenuous hypothesis in my view, and so far no data to support it.
     

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