Two new Podcast members...still no diversity?

[Queen2PrincessG]

That’s not exactly what I meant. I just think that a topic like this isn’t going to make any productive headway, regardless of your perspective, on an Internet forum like this.

My friend the point is to have the conversation, that in itself is productive. People having the discussion, sharing information, other vlogs. There is no endgame. I'm not asking anyone to hire someone just on race. I came here to see if others were seeing or feeling the same thing I was.

 

[jbehr12]

My friend the point is to have the conversation, that in itself is productive. People having the discussion, sharing information, other vlogs. There is no endgame. I'm not asking anyone to hire someone just on race. I came here to see if others were seeing or feeling the same thing I was.

Conversation is good, but open online forum conversation about a topic like this will only lead to arguments and the ugly side of people. If you want to see something done I’d suggest sending a respectful email directly to Craig or Pete with what you’d like to see. That’s all I’m trying to say. I agree that a person of color would be a good addition, while I also respect the established diversity they have in terms of gender and sexuality. Either way it definitely matters, I’m just suggesting a route that might have a more effective outcome.

 

[disneyland_is_magic]

Folks, there is a thread about farting. And it’s three years old.

No one is questioning what it has accomplished, how potentially productive it will continue to be in 2020, if the title properly articulated the subject or is the OP was overly dramatic with all that punctuation. I scroll pass it everyday and don't look, I am not interested in discussing farting.
But if people want to discuss that, it it brings humor or a sense of community to the boards, if it's something people relate to and want to discuss the less glamorous parts of Disney and for three years...go for it!

 

[jbehr12]

Folks, there is a thread about farting. And it’s three years old.

No one is questioning what it has accomplished, how potentially productive it will continue to be in 2020, if the title properly articulated the subject or is the OP was overly dramatic with all that punctuation. I scroll pass it everyday and don't look, I am not interested in discussing farting.
But if people want to discuss that, it it brings humor or a sense of community to the boards, if it's something people relate to and want to discuss the less glamorous parts of Disney and for three years...go for it!

I think farting and racial representation are apples and oranges here...

 

[disneyland_is_magic]

Absolutely. But I don’t go in there and ask them to justify it over and over.
We are having a great discussion and it’s only been a few days. I am learning a lot. Even if it only last a week, I will be really glad it happened.

 

[tellingson]

I don't see this thread as productive. It has turned into an echo chamber for those that agree, and shutting down of voices of dissent.

SO much to unpack here but what stands out to me is your feeling that having people of color could be non-organic? I'm sorry do we not naturally exist in the world?

In response to

If you start forcing non-organic changes, then you ALWAYS end up with lower quality content, or the content goes away altogether. These shows are good because the individuals get along well and bounce off each other. (Organic meaning that Pete runs into someone, they become friends and Pete offers the person a spot on the show because Pete thinks that individual would be a good fit).

I just don't even know how we can have a constructive dialog when the attack is planned before even finishing the post. I even gave the definition of organic that I was using in my post to make sure that there could be no misunderstanding.

Or you have messages like this that basically say, "Anyone that is white like me, you're wrong. And if you look deep inside, you'll recognize it."

This thread is tremendously interesting. I understand the irony of what I'm about to say, but I wanted to encourage all of my white cohort on this board to pause for a moment. When a black person raises an issue of non-representation, it is our job to listen, acknowledge that the lack of representation can be hurtful and amplify their voice (if we are able to). It is not our job to try to prove them wrong. We cannot get caught up in our "white feelings". Listen to what is being said. It is not an attack on you. It is a statement of fact.

And the response?

THIS and THANK YOU! Don't be quiet!

Why would anyone applaud messages like that? It is an abusive message. It's virtue signaling. It's patronizing to People Of Color. If I were a POC, I would be disgusted.

As it stands, as a white male millennial, I'm going to exercise my white privilege to be offended in your behalf.

Joking aside... Honestly, there are too many preconceived notions of intent to every message posted. I think if this conversation could be had in person, then I think that it might be doable. But as it stands, I'm out.

I wish you the best of luck in your endeavor, OP.

 

[TresGriffin]

Actually, I just thought of a prime example: It goes back to an old Dis Pop episode, specifically when they were talking about Live Action Nickelodeon in the 90s. “My Brother and Me” was mentioned relatively briefly compared to the other shows because Ryno and Craig vaguely knew of it, at best, so they didn’t have much to say about it. See, MBAM was Nickelodeon’s first show with a predominately black cast and was particularly popular amongst black kids in the 90s. Sadly, because of behind-the-scenes disagreements, the show didn’t last longer than 1 season, but Nickelodeon kept the show in rotation for a few years afterwards. But, I digress...

But I promise you if you had a POC (particularly Black) on that show, chances are, they could’ve told you all about “GOOOO PUNCH” and “HIT ME!!!”.

 

[jbehr12]

I don't see this thread as productive. It has turned into an echo chamber for those that agree, and shutting down of voices of dissent.



In response to


I just don't even know how we can have a constructive dialog when the attack is planned before even finishing the post. I even gave the definition of organic that I was using in my post to make sure that there could be no misunderstanding.

Or you have messages like this that basically say, "Anyone that is white like me, you're wrong. And if you look deep inside, you'll recognize it."



And the response?



Why would anyone applaud messages like that? It is an abusive message. It's virtue signaling. It's patronizing to People Of Color. If I were a POC, I would be disgusted.

As it stands, as a white male millennial, I'm going to exercise my white privilege to be offended in your behalf.

Joking aside... Honestly, there are too many preconceived notions of intent to every message posted. I think if this conversation could be had in person, then I think that it might be doable. But as it stands, I'm out.

I wish you the best of luck in your endeavor, OP.

This. Thank you for the well worded explanation of what I was trying to say myself.

 

[Queen2PrincessG]

Conversation is good, but open online forum conversation about a topic like this will only lead to arguments and the ugly side of people. If you want to see something done I’d suggest sending a respectful email directly to Craig or Pete with what you’d like to see. That’s all I’m trying to say. I agree that a person of color would be a good addition, while I also respect the established diversity they have in terms of gender and sexuality. Either way it definitely matters, I’m just suggesting a route that might have a more effective outcome.

Why would it lead to arguments? All I see are people openly discussing the topic in a respectful way. No need to place that negativity.

 

[CampbellzSoup]

Why would it lead to arguments? All I see are people openly discussing the topic in a respectful way. No need to place that negativity.

I agree with you. I believe you are wrong, but a respectable debate is always good rather than not having a conversation.

I just still feel you enjoy a product for the content not individuals skin color as diversity is a spectrum of thoughts ideas, genders, ages, sexual orientations, especially for a fan produced show.

 

[Beer Me]

If you own a business and do the hiring it’s easy to be biased towards people who have similar or more relatable backgrounds. Whether it’s age, physical appearance, economic class, style of dress, manner of speaking etc. It’s not necessarily an explicit racial bias or even a conscious thing at all. It’s also possible that the level of diversity is due circumstances other than any kind of hiring bias.

I feel like whenever a lack of diversity is pointed out a bunch of people automatically get defensive almost as if they’re being accused of racism which is not the case at all.

Having a conversation can shake you from a routine mentality and help you see things a bit differently. That’s pretty much always a good thing.

 

[Fred M]

I‘ll rephrase. I guess what I meant is that we Disney Enthusiasts (and I’m talking to the pint of being regulars on these boards, watching the shows on YouTube on a regular basis and even being a Patreon supporter) are already a niche demographic, race notwithstanding. Throw any ethnic minority into the criteria, and you’ve cut that pool down significantly.

This struck a cord with me. I’m a managing attorney at a relatively small government agency and we have 80 lawyers. We have a great mix of ethnic diversity in our office (Latinx, old school Latinos, lawyers who identify as black and others who identify as African-American, Chinese, Japanese, API, LGBTQ, and even lu-Mien, to name a few), and we’re always looking to expand our diversity.

And we have two problems at attracting diverse talent. First, we're in Sacramento. I love Sacramento, but if you’re a new law school grad, the allure of Sacramento doesn’t compare to Southern California or San Francisco. So our hires tend to reflect the community we’re in—primarily white and Latin descent. Second, we’re a niche group of drafting attorneys. We don’t set policy, we don’t go to court. We research, draft, review, and edit documents all day long. I absolutely adore my job. But lawyers don’t generally jump out of bed with excitement to do what we do.

We constantly make job offers to People of Color, and for every one that says yes we have three or four who say no because they’re going to a big firm in San Francisco, they’re going to be a DA or Public Defender, they’re going to clerk for a judge, they’re going to work at a more “glamorous” state agency, etc.

Everyone on the podcast works for Dreams Unlimited in some capacity (with the DVC Show being the outlier). Some work behind the scenes at Dreams. Some are travel agents. So the podcast isn’t just a bunch of Disney fans sitting around filming themselves for fun. They are part of the marketing arm of a travel agency to get you excited to go to Orlando or to book a cruise through Dreams. Add to that the desire to be on camera, and to spend time filming podcasts in Pete’s house, you also have a niche field.

But @Queen2PrincessG brings up a great point—is there anyone at Dreams who wants to do this and would add to the diversity?

None of us can really answer that question. Maybe the podcast is drawing the most diverse group it can from the talent it has available. Maybe they aren’t. But they said Dreams is hiring. It all starts there.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

If you own a business and do the hiring it’s easy to be biased towards people who have similar or more relatable backgrounds. Whether it’s age, physical appearance, economic class, style of dress, manner of speaking etc. It’s not necessarily an explicit racial bias or even a conscious thing at all. It’s also possible that the level of diversity is due circumstances other than any kind of hiring bias.

I feel like whenever a lack of diversity is pointed out a bunch of people automatically get defensive almost as if they’re being accused of racism which is not the case at all.

Having a conversation can shake you from a routine mentality and help you see things a bit differently. That’s pretty much always a good thing.

I also think it gets exacerbated here as people can want to defend Pete and the podcast and anything that comes off as "telling Pete how to do his job" can elicit those defensive responses (and I know I have been guilty of doing that in the past). It comes up in other threads, such as after the show for a given week is cancelled because Pete is sick and tons of people have ideas for how that should be handled.

I have no idea the intent behind the OP for this (the problem with reading someone online, hard to tell intent or tone) but in reading it I think it could be interpreted as telling the team what to do ... and that will garner certain reactions and when you add in something like Race which is a delicate topic.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

This struck a cord with me. I’m a managing attorney at a relatively small government agency and we have 80 lawyers. We have a great mix of ethnic diversity in our office (Latinx, old school Latinos, lawyers who identify as black and others who identify as African-American, Chinese, Japanese, API, LGBTQ, and even lu-Mien, to name a few), and we’re always looking to expand our diversity.

And we have two problems at attracting diverse talent. First, we're in Sacramento. I love Sacramento, but if you’re a new law school grad, the allure of Sacramento doesn’t compare to Southern California or San Francisco. So our hires tend to reflect the community we’re in—primarily white and Latin descent. Second, we’re a niche group of drafting attorneys. We don’t set policy, we don’t go to court. We research, draft, review, and edit documents all day long. I absolutely adore my job. But lawyers don’t generally jump out of bed with excitement to do what we do.

We constantly make job offers to People of Color, and for every one that says yes we have three or four who say no because they’re going to a big firm in San Francisco, they’re going to be a DA or Public Defender, they’re going to clerk for a judge, they’re going to work at a more “glamorous” state agency, etc.

Everyone on the podcast works for Dreams Unlimited in some capacity (with the DVC Show being the outlier). Some work behind the scenes at Dreams. Some are travel agents. So the podcast isn’t just a bunch of Disney fans sitting around filming themselves for fun. They are part of the marketing arm of a travel agency to get you excited to go to Orlando or to book a cruise through Dreams. Add to that the desire to be on camera, and to spend time filming podcasts in Pete’s house, you also have a niche field.

But @Queen2PrincessG brings up a great point—is there anyone at Dreams who wants to do this and would add to the diversity?

None of us can really answer that question. Maybe the podcast is drawing the most diverse group it can from the talent it has available. Maybe they aren’t. But they said Dreams is hiring. It all starts there.

I can't believe I'm getting involved in this, but here we go..........

In addition to this, we also have to factor in basic statistics. How many regulars are there on the DIS? 10 maybe? This isn't a sampling of tens of thousands where by basic statistics you should expect proportionate representation. A single addition/subtraction will have an extreme effect. I'll try and explain with an example.

You flip a coin. Odds are 1/2 that it will land on heads. If you flip the coin 10,000 times in a row, you should flip heads very close to 5,000 times. If you only get 2,000 heads, it is fair to dig deeper to see if something is giving an unfair advantage to Tails. On the other hand, if you flip the coin only twice, and get tails both times, that is not strong evidence that the coin is weighted in favor of Tails. It's just too small of a sample size to draw any conclusions off of.

As has been mentioned by a couple of posters, the extremely tiny niche that would fit into this role specifically may not be representative of the US census. Add to that, that we are dealing with a very very small sampling, and it's no wonder that there isn't proportional representation.

In my personal opinion, as a complete outsider and based on the facts that have been presented, I am not convinced that we can draw any conclusions that the hiring practices of DIS podcast members is racially motivated in anyway. However, that is my personal opinion. Others are free to have their own opinions. If new facts come to light, I could be pursued to change my opinion.

 

[Dead2009]

I commented on how while Morgan seems to be an ok add she is still white woman on the show. My post was removed because it "did not add to the conversation...that there was another thread about diversity," Forgive me but is it not important to call out the absurdity of telling someone that there is only one place to discuss the lack fo diversity on the show? That there is just one thread to discuss this? Only one place allowing the conversation. I don't get it. Why is it not a conversation being had? It is not that hard to find POC who can converse well and are knowledgeable about Disneyworld and who live in the area. I do not get it. Someone explain, please why after this many years, there still has been not a single POC in one of those seats. I love the show but it's just mind-boggling, and yes it does matter.

It's quite possible that there are people who don't want to do it, or aren't committed to doing a weekly podcast. You can't really force them to just throw someone in a seat so the show can be diverse especially if they aren't cut out for the position. Besides, at the end of the day it's also their show and they can pick and choose whoever they want to come aboard.

 

[ChrisFL]

I see a lot of problems with the OP's mentality on this honestly.

We don't know the hiring process of Pete and the Dreams team and we don't know how many "POC" have applied for those positions.

Additionally, just having a "POC" implies that they would automatically want a different Disney experience than others who aren't, but I don't know any experiences that specifically cater to one demographic over another. One of the best parts about Disney is that there's something for everyone, and just being a certain ethnicity or background doesn't define what you'd prefer.

I mean would someone with African heritage automatically want to visit Animal Kingdom more often because of that (to use an extreme example)? Maybe yes, maybe no and it would be IMO quite stereotypical to assume such things out of one person they would just randomly add to a team.

Representation matters, absolutely, in every industry, but sometimes you have to observe the limitations and structure of the individual situation.

 

[Queen2PrincessG]

Actually, I just thought of a prime example: It goes back to an old Dis Pop episode, specifically when they were talking about Live Action Nickelodeon in the 90s. “My Brother and Me” was mentioned relatively briefly compared to the other shows because Ryno and Craig vaguely knew of it, at best, so they didn’t have much to say about it. See, MBAM was Nickelodeon’s first show with a predominately black cast and was particularly popular amongst black kids in the 90s. Sadly, because of behind-the-scenes disagreements, the show didn’t last longer than 1 season, but Nickelodeon kept the show in rotation for a few years afterwards. But, I digress...

But I promise you if you had a POC (particularly Black) on that show, chances are, they could’ve told you all about “GOOOO PUNCH” and “HIT ME!!!”.

HIT ME!!!! OMG YES!! I loved all of those shows. I wish they could/would reboot that. I will say that Netflixs is doing a great job filling the void of shows featuring youth of color but not having their ethnicity lead the conversation with "Raising Dion".

 

[Queen2PrincessG]

I agree with you. I believe you are wrong, but a respectable debate is always good rather than not having a conversation.

I just still feel you enjoy a product for the content not individuals skin color as diversity is a spectrum of thoughts ideas, genders, ages, sexual orientations, especially for a fan produced show.

Agree. Open, respectfully discourse is how change happens. I did email Pete and received a response that I think was honest. I never believed this "oversight" was done with intent, but it was nice to have that confirmed. Hopefully, this thread can evolve and maybe people will discuss a show or vlog that others will go to. Or bring up a topic they would have added to, that no one suggested during the cast. Maybe other POC will come here and discuss some of the things they enjoy that aren't mainstream Disney.

What's striking to me is that people implied that diversity and quality can not be synonymous, as though having a poc would take away from the show. Why do people think that? Where is that coming from?

 

[DLgal]

I could care less about there skin color since I usally just listen to the pod cast.. what I cant stand is Elaines voice. Might be rude but its a voice show.. and she sounds like shes sick? speech impediment? Im not sure but man it makes me think shes eating a lollypop when she talks.

Who is Elaine?

 

[DLgal]

Not everyone on the shows is a Dreams Agent. Morgan isn't. She was hired, it seems, after a chance meeting at Disneyland (based on what she said in a recent show). She happened to have social media experience, lived locally, has a fun personality, and apparently clicked with the team.

I applied to be a Dreams Agent. There was no way to indicate my race or ethnicity on the application because it is illegal to do so. Employers can't discriminate against ANY race or ethnicity, and thank goodness for that.

That said, I agree there could be more racial/ethnic diversity, specifically. There is plenty of lifestyle diversity already, which is great. However, I don't know of even a legal way to put a call out for only non white people who may be interested in joining the team. How do you do that without being labeled discriminatory? It's a tough spot to be in.