Too Many Hotels, Not Enough Parks

[disneysteve]

improvements made to AK have really shown that if they give some love to the other parks it will help pull people away from MK

And that is exactly why they need to get moving on Epcot once Galaxy's Edge is done to reopen Wonders of Life, get the Guardians ride built, and figure out what to do with Innoventions. And maybe finally add another country. Plus get Ratatouille finished.

 

[rteetz]

So? You can't see everything in a week now. What difference does it make if there's one more thing (a 5th park) that you can't see in that week? And there's no reason that you couldn't squeeze in at least some time in all 5 parks during a one-week visit. Yes, it will cannibalize time from something else but that's normal. I'm sure since Pandora opened people are spending more time in AK and less time somewhere else. And once Galaxy's Edge opens people will spend more time in DHS and less time somewhere else. If a 5th park opened, people would spend more time there and less time doing other things.

I wonder what percentage of 1st-time visitors never come back for the rest of their lives.

That last part would be an interesting stat to see.

Open a 5th park in 5-10 years, okay look 30 years down the line is a 6th park then needed? I just think 4 parks is a sweet spot and that going to 5 parks will only hurt Disney. They should focus on their current parks. Even after SWGE, Hollywood Studios will need more to handle capacity and Epcot still needs more outside of whats already been announced.

 

[rteetz]

And that is exactly why they need to get moving on Epcot once Galaxy's Edge is done to reopen Wonders of Life, get the Guardians ride built, and figure out what to do with Innoventions. And maybe finally add another country. Plus get Ratatouille finished.

Guardians and Ratatouille are well underway. Rat will open first. Plans are in place for many projects at Epcot its a matter of what gets funded and approved and what doesn't.

I'd much rather see $2-3 billion invested in Epcot than a 5th gate.

 

[disneysteve]

I'd much rather see $2-3 billion invested in Epcot than a 5th gate.

I don't have a problem with that as long as most of that spending is on things that will increase guest capacity. So spending money to replace Illuminations would be lower on the list than putting new attractions that people actually want to see in Innoventions.

Another thing to consider is the Disney vs. Universal competition. We keep hearing how more and more guests are doing split stays. Would a 5th park cut down on that and keep more people on Disney property for their entire trip?

 

[rteetz]

I don't have a problem with that as long as most of that spending is on things that will increase guest capacity. So spending money to replace Illuminations would be lower on the list than putting new attractions that people actually want to see in Innoventions.

Another thing to consider is the Disney vs. Universal competition. We keep hearing how more and more guests are doing split stays. Would a 5th park cut down on that and keep more people on Disney property for their entire trip?

Spending money on a new show definitely helps capacity. How would it not? It take a people away from attractions and arguably is the biggest capacity driver.

The universal vs. Disney aspect is interesting. I think it depends on what is in this fifth park and what is in Universals third. I don’t foresee Disney doing two Star Wars areas in different parks. Marvel is out too. Universal can use Nintendo though and DreamWorks properties.

 

[disneysteve]

Spending money on a new show definitely helps capacity.

Yeah, but only for 30 minutes (or however long people line up for a good spot)

 

[rteetz]

Yeah, but only for 30 minutes (or however long people line up for a good spot)

A lot of the times the show is the final thing of the night though. It’s all about spreading crowds out. Take the parades and fireworks away and lines would be even worse.

 

[Boski]

I think if we are talking about a new show in a new venue (ex. RoL), then yes it could draw people away. If we are talking about simply replacing a existing show I don't know how many more people its going to attract from what the previous show did.

 

[hertamaniac]

MK needs high capacity additions. The theater would have been great at taking in people. Tron isn’t a high capacity attraction.

Bingo! The theater was speculated for ~500-1K (?) guests per show and can go across a larger demographic (unlike Tron).

 

[rteetz]

Bingo! The theater was speculated for ~500-1K (?) guests per show and can go across a larger demographic (unlike Tron).

Yep, them dropping the theater takes away a huge people eater.

Look at something like Lights, motor, action or Universe of Energy. Maybe not the most fun or popular people still went into them and they were incredibly high capacity.

 

[disneysteve]

Look at something like Lights, motor, action or Universe of Energy. Maybe not the most fun or popular people still went into them and they were incredibly high capacity.

The problem with UoE is that it had the potential for high capacity but wasn’t actually drawing a crowd anymore . Last time we rode it, I doubt if there were 50 people on it with us.

 

[hertamaniac]

Yep, them dropping the theater takes away a huge people eater.

Look at something like Lights, motor, action or Universe of Energy. Maybe not the most fun or popular people still went into them and they were incredibly high capacity.

You are right; throughput at MK is woeful and I never really thought about it from that context (I am/was enthralled with the attraction theme/effects). UoE was not only large capacity, but also served as a reprieve from the sun. So the theater project really blended a few things in my mind (capacity, huge demographic, heat relief).

 

[rteetz]

The problem with UoE is that it had the potential for high capacity but wasn’t actually drawing a crowd anymore . Last time we rode it, I doubt if there were 50 people on it with us.

Yes but now its being replaced with something that will be popular and not have nearly the same capacity. Low capacity thrills are great but they also need to add high capacity draws as well. Look at Toy Story Land for example, neither attraction will have high capacity but both will be very popular.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

The problem with UoE is that it had the potential for high capacity but wasn’t actually drawing a crowd anymore . Last time we rode it, I doubt if there were 50 people on it with us.

Yes but now its being replaced with something that will be popular and not have nearly the same capacity. Low capacity thrills are great but they also need to add high capacity draws as well. Look at Toy Story Land for example, neither attraction will have high capacity but both will be very popular.

Right but Guardians - between those on the ride and those in the queue - should take more people away from other attractions, to a much greater degree than Universe of Energy, plus help with spreading out FastPasses

For example, the wait times should go down and it should be easier to get FP for Frozen Ever After once Guardian's opens

I do agree they need more "people eaters" on property, but UoE wasn't really accomplishing much - they need people eaters that people actually want to go to.

 

[rteetz]

Right but Guardians - between those on the ride and those in the queue - should take more people away from other attractions, to a much greater degree than Universe of Energy, plus help with spreading out FastPasses

For example, the wait times should go down and it should be easier to get FP for Frozen Ever After once Guardian's opens

I do agree they need more "people eaters" on property, but UoE wasn't really accomplishing much - they need people eaters that people actually want to go to.

Yes guardians will draw and be popular. I haven’t heard capacity numbers yet so that will be the real kicker. Guardians and rat will draw more people to Epcot but won’t necessarily make lines at other attractions shorter since more people will be at the park.

 

[Helvetica]

There's probably room for a 4th Soarin' theatre. If they wanted to get crazy, they could show two different movies and give people a reason to go through the line twice.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Yes guardians will draw and be popular. I haven’t heard capacity numbers yet so that will be the real kicker. Guardians and rat will draw more people to Epcot but won’t necessarily make lines at other attractions shorter since more people will be at the park.

That's true - as obviously not many people were buying an entrance ticket to EPCOT for Universe of Energy - so will depend on the trade off of how many more total people vs how many people are tied up with those rides thus freeing up capacity (and FPs) for things like FEA

Hopefully they do try to get Guardians as high a capacity as possible - hopefully the length of the ride will allow for more trains to be active and they do the efficient loading, etc.

 

[disneysteve]

freeing up capacity (and FPs) for things like FEA

FEA is not a hard FP to get anymore. I just looked out of curiosity. I couldn't get anything for the next 2 days but Saturday, Sunday, and Monday all have availability - and it's July 4th week. I checked 7/9 just to get past the holiday and there is availability that day, too. On our last couple of trips, we booked FEA a day or two in advance. Unless you are firm on a specific time, I'd say this is no longer one you need to get at the 60-day mark.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

FEA is not a hard FP to get anymore. I just looked out of curiosity. I couldn't get anything for the next 2 days but Saturday, Sunday, and Monday all have availability - and it's July 4th week. I checked 7/9 just to get past the holiday and there is availability that day, too. On our last couple of trips, we booked FEA a day or two in advance. Unless you are firm on a specific time, I'd say this is no longer one you need to get at the 60-day mark.

Good to know, as we will only have the 30 day booking for our upcoming trip and a number of youngsters withing our party of 9 so was hoping this would be a possibility for FP for us

 

[hertamaniac]

That's true - as obviously not many people were buying an entrance ticket to EPCOT for Universe of Energy - so will depend on the trade off of how many more total people vs how many people are tied up with those rides thus freeing up capacity (and FPs) for things like FEA

Hopefully they do try to get Guardians as high a capacity as possible - hopefully the length of the ride will allow for more trains to be active and they do the efficient loading, etc.

I see it as the same issue as Tron except even more limited. I suspect the demographic at EPCOT skews higher age wise than MK, DHS and AK (probably in that order at this time). So this almost begs the question, is WDW trying to morph EPCOT into a different demographic with this style attraction?