To Infinity and Beyond - Becoming a Better DopeyBadger (Comments Welcome)

[canglim52]

From my experience,

EA = Infinite pace. Don't really notice breathing at all as any different than normal for the large majority of training at this pace. Slow is the name of the game. And as Tinman pointed out in the podcast we listened to, this pace could go as slow as +4-5 min from 5k pace and you'd still be alright as long as it doesn't bother you mechanically.

EB = Just starting to notice I'm breathing. But it isn't labored and isn't rhythmic by nature. But I can tell I am breathing and needing just the tiniest bit of effort.

LR = At the beginning of the long run, it feels similar to what the end of an EB run feels like. The breathing is noticeable. Still not labored or rhythmic to start. Rhythmic breathing definitely helps though. About 1/2 to 3/4 way through the need for rhythmic breathing is more noticeable. The effort is now low/medium unlike EA and EB which are always low. It's not until usually the last few miles is any true focus necessary on the LR.

M Tempo = Rhythmic breathing is necessary to maintain a good effort/pace evenly throughout the run. A certain level of focus is necessary to maintain the pace.

How does that sound?

This makes perfect sense! I didn’t ask about HR zones, since I know they vary based on methodology... but I think I know where they fall based on mine based on this answer. Thanks for the explanation!

 

[MissLiss279]

Anyone using Stryd and have thoughts about the usefulness of it? I've read countless reviews, but I'm on the fence as to whether it's worth $200.

I have a Stryd. For what I use it for, it might not have been worth the $200; however, I’m happy I have it. It helps a lot for my treadmill and indoor track distance/pace without having to worry about counting laps or whether the treadmill is calibrated, and also for those areas where GPS struggles (downtown Chicago). But would a regular (cheaper) footpod have given me the same results??
I have tried to use the Power a little here and there - mainly once when I was running in a very hilly area, so I could help run more by effort than by pace. It has a lot of metrics with it that I think you would find interesting. Since I have been using your plans, I haven’t really researched their running by power plans.

 

[lhermiston]

From my experience,

EA = Infinite pace. Don't really notice breathing at all as any different than normal for the large majority of training at this pace. Slow is the name of the game. And as Tinman pointed out in the podcast we listened to, this pace could go as slow as +4-5 min from 5k pace and you'd still be alright as long as it doesn't bother you mechanically.

EB = Just starting to notice I'm breathing. But it isn't labored and isn't rhythmic by nature. But I can tell I am breathing and needing just the tiniest bit of effort.

LR = At the beginning of the long run, it feels similar to what the end of an EB run feels like. The breathing is noticeable. Still not labored or rhythmic to start. Rhythmic breathing definitely helps though. About 1/2 to 3/4 way through the need for rhythmic breathing is more noticeable. The effort is now low/medium unlike EA and EB which are always low. It's not until usually the last few miles is any true focus necessary on the LR.

M Tempo = Rhythmic breathing is necessary to maintain a good effort/pace evenly throughout the run. A certain level of focus is necessary to maintain the pace.

How does that sound?

This is a great explanation and I've never really thought the paces in this way. I'll definitely be applying this to my runs.

 

[DopeyBadger]

This makes perfect sense! I didn’t ask about HR zones, since I know they vary based on methodology... but I think I know where they fall based on mine based on this answer. Thanks for the explanation!

I prefer %HRR. Mine:

I have a Stryd. For what I use it for, it might not have been worth the $200; however, I’m happy I have it. It helps a lot for my treadmill and indoor track distance/pace without having to worry about counting laps or whether the treadmill is calibrated, and also for those areas where GPS struggles (downtown Chicago). But would a regular (cheaper) footpod have given me the same results??
I have tried to use the Power a little here and there - mainly once when I was running in a very hilly area, so I could help run more by effort than by pace. It has a lot of metrics with it that I think you would find interesting. Since I have been using your plans, I haven’t really researched their running by power plans.

I think the treadmill is one reason I'm considering it. Although I'm not planning on getting a treadmill until October 2019. I thought getting it when I restart training might help build a nice dataset to compare against when the time comes. The power side of it is intriguing because of the recent for-ray into training load calculations. Have you ever tried to see the "power" data simultaneously while doing a Garmin written workout? I wasn't able to find an answer easily on the internet. I also wonder if it would be a good measure to use for racing. Like I wouldn't be able to see pace, but could use that as a measure of "checking in" without disrupting everything mentally maybe? I thought I'd give it a try on some of these other races coming up in 2019 in prep for the marathon.

I'm not sure I'd dive into a power based run training plan yet. I'd want to see my own data first and then see how it guides me. But it's a consideration.

This is a great explanation and I've never really thought the paces in this way. I'll definitely be applying this to my runs.

Happy you like it. Besides using T+D adjustments, this is how I hone in on effort based pacing during non-ideal runs. A memorization of what everything always feels like. In most cases, I can feel whatever pace I'm running using these types of cues.

 

[MissLiss279]

I think the treadmill is one reason I'm considering it. Although I'm not planning on getting a treadmill until October 2019. I thought getting it when I restart training might help build a nice dataset to compare against when the time comes. The power side of it is intriguing because of the recent for-ray into training load calculations. Have you ever tried to see the "power" data simultaneously while doing a Garmin written workout? I wasn't able to find an answer easily on the internet. I also wonder if it would be a good measure to use for racing. Like I wouldn't be able to see pace, but could use that as a measure of "checking in" without disrupting everything mentally maybe? I thought I'd give it a try on some of these other races coming up in 2019 in prep for the marathon.

I'm not sure I'd dive into a power based run training plan yet. I'd want to see my own data first and then see how it guides me. But it's a consideration.

Yes, you can add it as a data field on one of your run screens, or you can at least on the Garmin Fenix 5s. On the Fenix you are allowed two custom data fields (from Garmin IQ) to choose from to display in any of the screens that you can flip through. I have had it on the same screen as average pace before, but then decided I preferred my previous options, so now it’s on a screen by itself.

Just found that it is the “Stryd Power” data field from Garmin IQ store that you can add to one of your ‘run’ screens.

I think you could use it to check in during races, but I would think after you know what your power should be, it might affect you the same way as seeing your pace; however, if it was a race with lots of elevation changes, maybe it would help.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Yes, you can add it as a data field on one of your run screens, or you can at least on the Garmin Fenix 5s. On the Fenix you are allowed two custom data fields (from Garmin IQ) to choose from to display in any of the screens that you can flip through. I have had it on the same screen as average pace before, but then decided I preferred my previous options, so now it’s on a screen by itself.

Just found that it is the “Stryd Power” data field from Garmin IQ store that you can add to one of your ‘run’ screens.

Awesome, that's good to know. I wonder if the Garmin 235 is the same.

I think you could use it to check in during races, but I would think after you know what your power should be, it might affect you the same way as seeing your pace; however, if it was a race with lots of elevation changes, maybe it would help.

That's fair. But it might help set reasonable in-race expectations if it does what it says it'll do. But I'm not sure if it's all advertising. Did it pre-predict your recent results? Although, I was interested to see recently that they did a rebuttal through a journal after a recent research article was written using the Stryd device.

 

[MissLiss279]

Awesome, that's good to know. I wonder if the Garmin 235 is the same.



That's fair. But it might help set reasonable in-race expectations if it does what it says it'll do. But I'm not sure if it's all advertising. Did it pre-predict your recent results? Although, I was interested to see recently that they did a rebuttal through a journal after a recent research article was written using the Stryd device.

I’m not sure about the prediction. I’m just now noticing that it didn’t collect data during a few runs recently (so I’m not sure what my actual power was during the 4-miler this last weekend).

 

[DopeyBadger]

I’m not sure about the prediction. I’m just now noticing that it didn’t collect data during a few runs recently (so I’m not sure what my actual power was during the 4-miler this last weekend).

Bummer!

 

[avondale]

I prefer %HRR. Mine:

View attachment 380970

I like your breathing/effort description.

Your %HRR table bothers me. Why are there gaps between the HRR ranges? There is no pace that hits at 69%, for example?

 

[DopeyBadger]

Your %HRR table bothers me. Why are there gaps between the HRR ranges? There is no pace that hits at 69%, for example?

According to some, the gaps seen at the slower end of the spectrum would be considered "dead zones" or "grey areas" in physiological training. They offer no tangible benefit to the ones slightly slower/faster than them when evaluated on the purpose of the run. Meaning, if you're training at 69% HRR, then you're not reaping all the recovery benefits (easy) because it's slightly too fast, but you're not reaping all the benefits of a long run because it's slightly too slow. Can you run at that pace? Sure. But what's the intent of running there? Are you out on a recovery day? Well then slow down. Are you working your primarily aerobic pacing and the benefits found there? Then speed up. The gaps between the faster paces would represent the race distances between them. So 10k to 5k has a gap of 94 to 98%. But that's where you would find the 9k, 8k, 7k, or 6k paces.

 

[FFigawi]

Anyone using Stryd and have thoughts about the usefulness of it? I've read countless reviews, but I'm on the fence as to whether it's worth $200.

I don't have a Stryd because running power doesn't seem to be as useful and informative to me as cycling power. I do have a Zwift/Milestone pod, though, which provides all kinds of running dynamics and is able to be used with Zwift on a treadmill. The data it provides is similar to what my Garmin footpod gathers, and one of these days I'll stop looking like a dork and only wear one pod instead of two.

 

[DopeyBadger]

I don't have a Stryd because running power doesn't seem to be as useful and informative to me as cycling power.

Is there something in particular?

 

[FFigawi]

I don't think the science is developed to the same level as it is for cycling. Maybe it'll get there, but for me, HR is a better measure of workload when running.

 

[DopeyBadger]

I don't think the science is developed to the same level as it is for cycling. Maybe it'll get there, but for me, HR is a better measure of workload when running.

I think that's fair.

 

[FFigawi]

One day, I'm sure it'll get there and we'll see running charts with %FTP targets for a race of a given distance like is done on the bike today. Sure would make things easier - set your watch to show 10s Avg Power and keep that number in your desired range - but there hasn't been enough testing and validation and real-world confirmation to make those charts and targets just yet. I know there are quite a few people working on this and look forward to seeing them continue to improve and refine the science over the next few years.

 

[DopeyBadger]

One day, I'm sure it'll get there and we'll see running charts with %FTP targets for a race of a given distance like is done on the bike today. Sure would make things easier - set your watch to show 10s Avg Power and keep that number in your desired range - but there hasn't been enough testing and validation and real-world confirmation to make those charts and targets just yet. I know there are quite a few people working on this and look forward to seeing them continue to improve and refine the science over the next few years.

That's where I am at. I've read the research and it seems good. But am not sure the tech/ideas are quite there yet. But the question is how far away are we? Is Stryd good enough until the "big one" comes out in the future? That's the tough question I guess and hinges on the conclusion of whether it's worth it.

 

[FFigawi]

I'd buy a cheaper pod which connects to Zwift now and get a fancy one in the future once the tech and ideas are more solid.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Sweet Spot Base - Mid Volume Phase 2 - Week 5 (Peak Week) + 80 Day Obsession Week 8 (End of Phase 2)

2/4/19 - M - OFF
2/5/19 - T - 80DO-D45-Booty + Spencer+2 (60 min; 84 TSS)
2/6/19 - W - 80DO-D46-Cardio Core + Pettit (60 min; 39 TSS)
2/7/19 - R - 80DO-D47-Total Body Core + Lamarck (60 min; 84 TSS)
2/8/19 - F - 80DO-D48-Legs
2/9/19 - Sa - Leconte (90 min; 123 TSS) + 80DO-D49-AAA
2/10/19 - Su - Wright Peak-1 (120 min; 143 TSS) + 80DO-D50-Cardio Flow

Total Biking Time - 6:30 hours
Total Biking TSS - 473 TSS

Total 80DO Time - 5:02 hours
Total 80DO TSS - 106 TSS

Total Training Time - 11:32 hours
Total TSS - 579 TSS (PR)

Monday
First day that I actually felt some fatigue lingering from the workouts. It was nice to have that feeling again.

Tuesday

Here comes the peak week of training thus far!

Booty! 2x15, but this time you go through each series all three times before moving to the next series. So a true burnout on the moves.
Series 1 (Standing) - Squat to Hinge, Curtsy Lunge Lift, Rotating Back Side Lunge
Series 2 (Quad Ped) - Heel Press Up on Angle, Single-Leg Hamstring Curl, Bear Fire Hydrant
Series 3 (Weighted) - KB Swings, Sumo Hinge, Reverse Lunge
Series 4 (Floor Weighted) - Single-Leg Bridge, Press Up and Over, Camels

The bike workout was a 6x3-minute VO2max repeats at 120% FTP with 4-minute recoveries between intervals. This seemed like a big step up from last week. But I was able to pull it off.


Wednesday

Time for some Cardio Core! It was different than Phase 1. The focus was less jumping jacks and a whole lot of other cardio movements.

An easy bike workout.


Thursday

TBC at 2x15, but this time you go through each series all three times before moving to the next series. So a true burnout on the moves.
Series 1 (Shoulder) - Squat/Row/Twist/Row, Kneeling Lunge Clean & Press, Quad Ped Opposite Arm Knee Crunch
Series 2 (Chest) - Chest Press to Half Turkish Get-up, Spider Man Push-ups, Frog Sliders
Series 3 (Back) - "T" to Single-Leg Hip Hinge, Lat Pull Over w/ Leg Raise, Weighted Plank Hip Drop
Series 4 (Biceps) - Low Twisting Lunge Hammer Curl, Press Out to Curl, Weighted Standing Torso Rotation
Series 5 (Triceps) - Crab Position Tricep Dip to Sit Through, Alternating Skull Crusher with Bicycle Legs, French Twist

The bike workout was a 4x10-minute intervals set right at FTP and the active recoveries between intervals are each 2 minutes long. Another beast of a bike workout. But I survived!

Friday

Legs at 2x15, but this time you go through each series all three times before moving to the next series. So a true burnout on the moves.
Series 1 - Reverse Lunges, Reverse Slider Lunges
Series 2 - Weighted Goblet Squat, Modified Pistol on Sliders
Series 3 - Single-arm Weighted Curtsy, Curtsy Sliders
Series 4 - Sumo Squat, Sumo Heel on Sliders
Series 5 - Weighted Warrior 3, Hamstring Curls on Sliders

Saturday

Got some sleep in. Another challenging bike workout. I've struggled with over/unders since I've started using TrainerRoad. This was 3 sets of 2x10-minute criss-cross intervals where 2-minute valleys between 95-99% FTP alternate with 30-second surges between 105-110% FTP. Each interval criss-crosses my FTP never straying far from it until the brief, 1-minute recoveries within each set or the 5-minute recovery segments between sets. Been a while since I completed an over/under with no adjustments and no breaks. I definitely feel stronger than ever now.

AAA at 2x15, but this time you go through each series all three times before moving to the next series. So a true burnout on the moves.
Series 1 - Bilateral Press, Alt Unilateral Press, Lateral Raise, Y, Lat Side Bend, Standing Weight Knee Drive, Loop Standing Donkey, Forearm Plank Jumping Jacks
Series 2 - Chest Press, Fly, Kickback in Plank, Tricep Pushup, Corkscrew, Teaser, 1st Pos. Bridge, Single Leg Bridge w/ Loop
Series 3 - Pullovers, Renegade Row, Curls, Turned Out Curls, Loop Scissor Twist, V Leg Raise, Narrow Bridge Clam, Straight Leg Curls

Sunday

The peak of the cycling workouts. The plan is to wake up at 3:45am so that I can get the workout finished before we've got to leave for the airport because we're off to Disney World! The bike workout is a
3x30-minute intervals at 90% FTP with with brief, 30- to 60-second intermediate recoveries during each long interval. It has 5-minute recoveries between intervals.

Will go right into Cardio Flow 80DO right afterwards.

This brought the end of Phase 2 of 80DO as well. Which means it's time for measurements!



Chest, arms, thighs, waist are all essentially the same. The big mover was my problem area, my hips (at least where I measure them across the belly button). I've now dropped 2.75 inches off my hip area. I'd say that's pretty awesome given I've only dropped 0.8 pounds in the same timeframe. 80DO Phase 2 is based on building strength. That's an undoubted success in my book. In Week 1 of 80DO Phase 2, I was doing 8 pounds on most workouts. But here in Week 4 of Phase 2, I was able to do use 12/15 pound weights on almost all the workouts. The tricep curl in plank went from 5 pounds to 12 pounds in only 4 weeks. But here's the big one. For those who have been following along for a long time will remember how I use to do the UNC B-ball medicine ball routine 1-2 times per week. I would use a 6-8 pound medicine ball. Well we had to clear out my SILs basement and we got the medicine ball back. I picked it up and it felt like a basketball or an inflated balloon. It felt so crazy light. Sometimes it's hard to see the forest through the trees, but when I picked that medicine ball up it was like, "yea, this is working".

Off to Disney World to celebrate G's birthday!

 

[canglim52]

Happy birthday G!!

Great work Billy!

 

[TeeterTots]

Getting stronger is such a great feeling!