To Infinity and Beyond - Becoming a Better DopeyBadger (Comments Welcome)

Thanks! What do you mean by normalizing?



It depends. In most instances, I'm analyzing all of the data in the moment. There are occasions where I walk away from a method for a bit of time so that it doesn't consume me. But I'm very data centric and always looking for trends to give me an edge.



Thanks!



It's a very useful tool.



Hmph... Well, I'm happy to help by allowing Alabama a way into the playoffs... again... for every year the playoffs have existed... Some day maybe WI will be in the position to make it again. I'm indifferent on Ohio State not making it. It was definitely an interesting few weeks of CFP rankings.
Normalizing is probably the wrong term, but I was referring to how you “clean” the data so that you can draw better conclusions.
 
Hey @DopeyBadger (and @rteetz, too), I'm heading to Milwaukee tomorrow. Got any snow yet?

Possible dusting late Friday night, but otherwise just temps of WC <20 and windy.

Normalizing is probably the wrong term, but I was referring to how you “clean” the data so that you can draw better conclusions.

I got it. Yea, I refer to that at work as "scrubbing the data set". Having justifiable reasons as to why certain data point can or can't be trusted. I know the HR doesn't react quickly enough for 800m, so they're out. I know the HR at the end of a single mile interval (like 5k pace mile) is more indicative of the effort, so I use the end not the average. I know my HR is in the 120-130s for easy, so if I see a sudden spike to 170s I know not to trust it. Scrub out the justifiable bad data and then evaluate. Bad data makes things hard to interpret and less useful.
 




Sir William, Hope this works as I have never responded before. Wanted to pick your brain and get advice without clustering Strava unless that is preferred. Can do personal one on one but not sure how. Based on my last 2 races, I am dead nuts on 50.4 VDOT for Daniels but still not running at HRMax level. Last 5K maxed at 164. I have measured 180 (end of Columbus Marathon 2015) and 176 this past June in a warm 5 miler I felt liked I pretty much pegged. I think I'm in the mid-upper 170s but measured 184 2015 testing. That being said, How best do I get better at running in that upper HR zone. Also, during my last marathon cycle, my Stravistix Fitness peaked at 105.2. It's now 56.6 since I'm running less and very fresh. TRIMPs are 50-70s for tempo workouts. Thanks in Advance.
Keith
 
Based on my last 2 races, I am dead nuts on 50.4 VDOT for Daniels but still not running at HRMax level. Last 5K maxed at 164. I have measured 180 (end of Columbus Marathon 2015) and 176 this past June in a warm 5 miler I felt liked I pretty much pegged. I think I'm in the mid-upper 170s but measured 184 2015 testing. That being said, How best do I get better at running in that upper HR zone.

Keith, what's the goal of the training cycle? Are you trying to get faster in a 5k, 10k, HM or M? Are you trying to get comfortable running at uncomfortable paces? What's the overarching "A" goal in the future? Do you aim to break 17 min in the 5k, 1:20 in the HM, or 3:00 in the M as an example? That would guide what you choose to do on a cycle by cycle basis.

I think the real question rather than "how do I run in the upper HR zone" is "how do I get faster". Because my guess is if you ran a 18:00 5k at a 164 HR vs a 19:30 at a 177 HR, you'd be more ecstatic about the 18 min 5k. That comes from running around the VO2max pace threshold (or Daniels I pace), moreso than the Daniels T pace. Races shorter than 60 min will benefit more from the faster pace spectrum (like 5k, 3k, and mile paced training).

Screen Shot 2017-12-06 at 11.04.47 AM.png

This would be your pace spectrum per Daniels. A 19:48 5k (or VDOT of 50.4) has a LT pace of 6:48 min/mile and 5k pace of 6:22. So you're Daniels I pace would be roughly a 6:14 min/mile.

Screen Shot 2017-12-06 at 11.07.05 AM.png

Running for approximately 3-5 minutes at I pace with -1 minute resting breaks will really be a challenge. Example: 4 min @ I + 3 min Rest + 3 min @ I + 2 min Rest, etc. You don't want to do less than 2 min @ I though. The Daniels I pace is a successive builder, which means the REAL workout doesn't actually start until after 2 min. So a 4 min I is really 2 min of VO2max work. A 3 min I is 1 min VO2max. These paces will challenge you both cardiovascularly, biomechanically, and muscularly. They are the hardest workouts out there from a 5k desired improvement standpoint.

If for some reason, the workout seems too easy - don't increase the pace! Instead change the duration of I time (3 min to 4 min, or 4 min to 5 min) or decrease the Rest time (3 min to 2 min, or 2 min to 1 min). The pace is critical and designed around your current race capabilities.

Some example I paced workouts:

2 mi @ WU + 10 x 2 min @ I w/ 1 min RI @ WU + 3 mi @ CD
2 mi @ WU + 2 x 4 min @ I w/ 3 min RI @ WU + 3 x 3 min @ I w/ 2 min RI @ WU + 2 x 2 min @ I w/ 1 min RI @ WU + 2 mi @ CD
2 mi @ WU + 6 x 1200 @ I w/ 3 min RI @ WU + 3 mi @ CD
2 mi @ WU + 6 x 1000 @ I w/ 0.25 mi RI @ WU + 2 mi @ CD
2 mi @ WU + 8 x 3 min @ I w/ 2 min RI @ WU + 3 mi @ CD
2 mi @ WU + 5 x 1200 @ I w/ 3 min RI @ WU + 2 mi @ CD
2 mi @ WU + 7 x 3 min @ I w/ 4 min RI @ WU + 2 mi @ CD
1 mi @ WU + 6 x 4 min @ I w/ 3 min RI @ WU + 1 mi @ CD

The total time spent @ I pace should be around 20-30 minutes (with most being around 24-28).

Now, the original question was how do I get my HR higher during workouts. If you do Daniels I pace and you reduce the resting breaks, you will absolutely get your HR higher. BUT, the most critical part is not necessarily reaching the 170s. It's whether you can finish the workout without an unintentional fade. Your first and last intervals need to be similar in pacing. This pace is highly specific which means if scheduled for 6:14, and you run 6:08, 6:10, 6:20, 6:25, 6:23, 6:18 you really didn't hit the desired pace. That window is very tight and you want to aim for probably +/- 3 seconds.

Lastly, remember that while this intense speed work will help, even the 5k is an 80% endurance / 20% speed race (vs the marathon which is 99% endurance). So doing these speed workouts will help, but getting that training load back up and doing significant slow endurance work will help lower those 5k times even more. So training for 6-8 hours (or 40-50 miles) for a 5k seems crazy it will be really beneficial.

Also, during my last marathon cycle, my Stravistix Fitness peaked at 105.2. It's now 56.6 since I'm running less and very fresh. TRIMPs are 50-70s for tempo workouts.

Makes sense since the basis of the TRIMP is time spent at %HRR. Train less and you'll have a lower TRIMP Fitness score. Doesn't mean you're any less "fit" though. Just means you're training less. Me and someone else following a 8-9 hr plan that's roughly 80% easy and 20% hard would likely have the same TRIMP score. But I could run a 3 hr marathon and them a 5.5 hr marathon. So keep the TRIMP in context of just a training load calculation rather than an assessment on abilities in any way. Now, that's not to say that for an individual person a higher TRIMP might lead to faster races, but it doesn't have to.

Thoughts?
 
Possible dusting late Friday night, but otherwise just temps of WC <20 and windy.



I got it. Yea, I refer to that at work as "scrubbing the data set". Having justifiable reasons as to why certain data point can or can't be trusted. I know the HR doesn't react quickly enough for 800m, so they're out. I know the HR at the end of a single mile interval (like 5k pace mile) is more indicative of the effort, so I use the end not the average. I know my HR is in the 120-130s for easy, so if I see a sudden spike to 170s I know not to trust it. Scrub out the justifiable bad data and then evaluate. Bad data makes things hard to interpret and less useful.
I always appreciate learning the how/why you do things! I’m still working on getting my data right...It’s just so frustrating because I keep changing things mid training and thus loosing value in my data lol. Luckily I’m still so new I don’t need precise data yet :-)
 

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