That didn't take long...Skyliner Accident

[xuxa777]

Imagine you are in the hospital for surgery to repair your broken ankle. Normally the nurse will start mild sedation before you are taken to the OR but she was late, so you wheeled in sober and heard the surgeon saying that your leg was going to he amputated. "Wait!" you say. "I just have a broken ankle!" The surgeon checks the chart again and says "oh yeah that's right! Wrong procedure! Oh well no harm done!" Wow, you think. If the nurse had sedated you on time, you never would have overheard the surgeon and never would have stopped the medical error. You go to the hospital administrator to complain and they say "come on! You weren't even hurt!" And you said "but what if the nurse had sedated me I would have no leg!" And the hospital laughed and said "enough with the what ifs! You have no idea what would have happened! You are worrying about something that didn't happen and no one was hurt. That surgeon never makes mistakes."

By far the most entertaining post in this thread!

 

[LongLiveRafiki]

Imagine you are in the hospital for surgery to repair your broken ankle. Normally the nurse will start mild sedation before you are taken to the OR but she was late, so you wheeled in sober and heard the surgeon saying that your leg was going to he amputated. "Wait!" you say. "I just have a broken ankle!" The surgeon checks the chart again and says "oh yeah that's right! Wrong procedure! Oh well no harm done!" Wow, you think. If the nurse had sedated you on time, you never would have overheard the surgeon and never would have stopped the medical error. You go to the hospital administrator to complain and they say "come on! You weren't even hurt!" And you said "but what if the nurse had sedated me I would have no leg!" And the hospital laughed and said "enough with the what ifs! You have no idea what would have happened! You are worrying about something that didn't happen and no one was hurt. That surgeon never makes mistakes."

I get the point you are trying to make, but the scenario you presented is so unrealistic it's funny. Having had multiple surgeries, I can assure you that there are many steps in place to prevent something like that from happening... From having the doctor confirm the procedure with you before you're put under, to actually initialling with marker the body part to be worked on, to checking the ID bracelet you're wearing and matching that up with the file, to having you confirm your name and other identifying info with that on the chart/computer...

I think the point being made by several posters is that we don't know what every procedure is that Disney has in place. I agree that it really sucks it took so long for them to rescue people, but maybe there are other procedures in place to prevent some of these really dangerous what if scenarios many people keep bringing up. If not, then surely, they will do so now.

 

[UOAP]

I get the point you are trying to make, but the scenario you presented is so unrealistic it's funny. Having had multiple surgeries, I can assure you that there are many steps in place to prevent something like that from happening... From having the doctor confirm the procedure with you before you're put under, to actually initialling with marker the body part to be worked on, to checking the ID bracelet you're wearing and matching that up with the file, to having you confirm your name and other identifying info with that on the chart/computer...

I think the point being made by several posters is that we don't know what every procedure is that Disney has in place. I agree that it really sucks it took so long for them to rescue people, but maybe there are other procedures in place to prevent some of these really dangerous what if scenarios many people keep bringing up. If not, then surely, they will do so now.

There are thousands and thousands of serious medical errors every year. (But your optimism fits my analogy well!) The fact is that "what if" questions are not superfluous, they are necessary. And the biggest and most obvious "what if this happened at noon in August" is not a theoretical exercise. It's absolutely essential to answer prior to reopening that gondola. And to downplay the importance is to say that it doesn't really matter or only matters AFTER someone dies. It matters now, before someone is seriously hurt.

 

[LongLiveRafiki]

There are thousands and thousands of serious medical errors every year. (But your optimism fits my analogy well!) The fact is that "what if" questions are not superfluous, they are necessary. And the biggest and most obvious "what if this happened at noon in August" is not a theoretical exercise. It's absolutely essential to answer prior to reopening that gondola. And to downplay the importance is to say that it doesn't really matter or only matters AFTER someone dies. It matters now, before someone is seriously hurt.

And how do you know what safeguards they do or don't have in place. Obviously, there was a problem that caused a crash, but do you have definitive proof that they don't have a procedure in place for managing high temperatures? Do you know without a doubt that they don't have procedures in place to evacuate a gondola quickly if someone is about to die? No, you don't, and that's the point. None of us know. I guarantee there is far more than any of us know on their safety procedures.

 

[joelkfla]

Is this confirmed? i recall seeing images of the rescuers repelling down from the gondolas to a boat over the water. It was a drill, but was enough for me to say no thanks.

The boat is on Hourglass Lake for evacuation of the Pop/AoA line. It doesn't have a crane, it just has a platform that I believe lines up with the gondola doors.

AFAIK, for the few cabins that might be stranded over the canal between IG & Crescent Lake, ropes are the evacuation method.

 

[VandVsmama]

I get the point you are trying to make, but the scenario you presented is so unrealistic it's funny. Having had multiple surgeries, I can assure you that there are many steps in place to prevent something like that from happening... From having the doctor confirm the procedure with you before you're put under, to actually initialling with marker the body part to be worked on, to checking the ID bracelet you're wearing and matching that up with the file, to having you confirm your name and other identifying info with that on the chart/computer...

I think the point being made by several posters is that we don't know what every procedure is that Disney has in place. I agree that it really sucks it took so long for them to rescue people, but maybe there are other procedures in place to prevent some of these really dangerous what if scenarios many people keep bringing up. If not, then surely, they will do so now.

I think the scenario that poster proposed made a bit of sense actually. Bad stuff happens. Bad stuff can ALMOST happen...like happen right in front of you and you just narrowly escaped it. And you remark, "Hey! OMG! Look at that! That's awful!" while others remark back, "So what? You weren't affected. You're being a drama queen. Be quiet."

Mistakes happen. ACCIDENTS happen. Sometimes accidents happen despite all of the safety measures being followed and all of the building codes & regulations being followed.

I'm interested to see how long the sweaty gondolas with the plastic cup for an emergency toilet will be non-operational before they bring them back online. But no way am I going to get on one of those. Everybody has to make their own decisions on that and figure out what works best for them. I don't care if some people think I'm being stupid. I don't care if some people think I'm being foolish about it. People can mock me and make fun of me with dumb ethnic jokes that I've never even heard of before.

However you feel about this topic, Disney screwed up in initially calling it unplanned downtime. When my Internet service provider has a temporary outage? That's unplanned downtime. My employer's VPN is having problems? That's unplanned downtime.

A gondola crashes into another gondola and causes a chain reaction, smashes out the plexiglass window of 1 of the gondolas, strands people for hours resulting in bringing out pretty much EVERY available emergency first responder-firefighter from across the entire WDW resort?

Sorry, but that is not just unplanned downtime. That's an accident. A really bad situation. An emergency.

 

[Someone28624]

Imagine you are in the hospital for surgery to repair your broken ankle. Normally the nurse will start mild sedation before you are taken to the OR but she was late, so you wheeled in sober and heard the surgeon saying that your leg was going to he amputated. "Wait!" you say. "I just have a broken ankle!" The surgeon checks the chart again and says "oh yeah that's right! Wrong procedure! Oh well no harm done!" Wow, you think. If the nurse had sedated you on time, you never would have overheard the surgeon and never would have stopped the medical error. You go to the hospital administrator to complain and they say "come on! You weren't even hurt!" And you said "but what if the nurse had sedated me I would have no leg!" And the hospital laughed and said "enough with the what ifs! You have no idea what would have happened! You are worrying about something that didn't happen and no one was hurt. That surgeon never makes mistakes."

I'm not sure what the comparison you're trying to make here is, but to get your back to reality a little bit, in real life surgical procedures have "time outs" with all members of the surgical team, and if able, the patient, participating verifying you have the correct patient, procedure, site, equipment, and medications prepped. To prevent errors like your hypothetical scenario.

 

[Disneylover99]

Retrofit the gondolas with a bottom hatch and a 50 ft rope ladder. I was going to suggest 60 ft but guests can drop the last 10 feet.

As someone with claustrophobia but no fear of heights, I’d be on board with that.
It’s nice to have options.

 

[suemom2kay]

Imagine you are in the hospital for surgery to repair your broken ankle. Normally the nurse will start mild sedation before you are taken to the OR but she was late, so you wheeled in sober and heard the surgeon saying that your leg was going to he amputated. "Wait!" you say. "I just have a broken ankle!" The surgeon checks the chart again and says "oh yeah that's right! Wrong procedure! Oh well no harm done!" Wow, you think. If the nurse had sedated you on time, you never would have overheard the surgeon and never would have stopped the medical error. You go to the hospital administrator to complain and they say "come on! You weren't even hurt!" And you said "but what if the nurse had sedated me I would have no leg!" And the hospital laughed and said "enough with the what ifs! You have no idea what would have happened! You are worrying about something that didn't happen and no one was hurt. That surgeon never makes mistakes."

First of all, that’s not how it works. And, i can’t understand your analogy.

 

[Disneylover99]

What a bummer, guessing Disney will make sure that doesn't happen again.

I believe people are way more worried about the time spent trapped in the Gondola then the actual accident itself. The problem is, evacuations are always going to be a real possibility that Disney may not be able to control. Yes, they need to investigate the root cause of the accident, but more importantly, they need to figure out a faster way to evacuate people, and communicate with people in the gondolas.

 

[Disneylover99]

The only silver lining here will be for those stuck they will have a very unique experience they can share for the rest of there lives

with their psychotherapist or cognitive behavioural therapist should an event like this trigger some kind of phobia.

 

[MeridaAnn]

Sorry it wasn't on twitter it was this person who posted here on a closed down thread... Sorry about that...
https://www.disboards.com/threads/disney-skyliner-accident.3773008/page-45#post-61147988

That was my post. My friend did have a panic attack on board. She had been fine with the ride itself and she was okay for nearly two hours of just being stopped. Her panic attack started when we started seeing reports on social media about other gondolas evacuating in place and it was thinking about having to climb down a very high ladder attached to a boat (since we were stopped over water) and how unstable that would feel to her that lead to her panic attack.

We were also told by the medics attending to her once we got off that there were other people onboard who had experienced panic attacks as well.

Additionally, the only paperwork filled out was to gather contact information for one person in our group. There was no signature or anything like that - it was for Disney to record how many people were on board and to have a way to contact us about the incident in the future.

 

[Heather07438]

I need coffee

 

[UOAP]

I'm not sure what the comparison you're trying to make here is, but to get your back to reality a little bit, in real life surgical procedures have "time outs" with all members of the surgical team, and if able, the patient, participating verifying you have the correct patient, procedure, site, equipment, and medications prepped. To prevent errors like your hypothetical scenario.

And yet errors still happen because not everything is done properly. Every day. And procedures get modified constantly. And sometimes staff and personnel identify problems and things still DON'T get changed by the org until more people get hurt. This happens all the time. I've been in medicine 25 years.
My point is that it is simply incorrect to put so much faith into organizations having addressed *all* safety issues before exposing you to potential danger because that simply isn't the way the world works. And in this case, Disney left people in the gondola for almost 4 hours. Either that was intentional (in which case they are in big trouble) or they don't have a faster evacuation procedure yet. Mocking people or being upset at people for being concerned about that isn't helping Disney be the best and safest Disney it can be.

 

[TheRustyScupper]

Wow, I can't believe this happened less than a week out! We are leaving tomorrow and picked POP for the fact that it is one of the stops. Even if it is open this coming week while I'm there,
I'm now a bit hesitant to ride it. Not sure what to make of this. Glad no one was hurt!

1) WHAT DO YOU MEAN "A WEEK OUT"?
2) This system broke down during the Cast Member preview days!
3) Of course, WDW haD an excuse and let it open to the public, anyway.
4) It can take 2-4 hours to rescue people, except those folks over water - per Fire Rescue Dept.
5) Now, we wait for an extended breakdown and people peeing their pants waiting for rescue.
6) OF COURSE, OGRE (aka: Iger) AND WDW DO NOT CARE !!!

 

[suemom2kay]

2) This system broke down during the Cast Member preview days!

Details please. First I’ve heard of this.

 

[Lewisc]

We have several long threads discussing the same event. I don't know how many people read this post.
https://www.disboards.com/threads/d...tion-system-read-post-1.3578988/post-61149217
Basically a guest on one of the stopped gondolas called 911. RCFD decided guests in that gondola had to be evacuated. Maintenance couldn't begin the process of starting the line to start evacuating guests at stations until the guests in that gondola were evacuated. Gondola numbers aren't on the bottom of the gondolas. It took time to identify which gondola had to be evacuated.

Virtually all guests have cell phones, at least one per group. There should be a phone number printed in each gondola. An altenative to the, apparently, hard to hear intercom system.

 

[Chuck S]

It seems the main difference between this system, and the old skyway ride in the MK, is the the Skyliner cars are supposed to move themselves through the stations. When a skyway car was in station, the track above lifted the car hook from the cable, and the car was moved manually by a cast member through the station, and then pushed by a cast member back to the point it was again hanging on the cable.

The Skyliner cars are supposed to move themselves through stations continually, unless they are diverted to a side track. When the system halted and restarted, the blue car was apparently at just the right point to be unpowered for movement back to the point where it would re-attach to the moving cable. This would appear to be a design flaw in the system by Doppelmayr, but it should be able to be corrected by somehow adding a mechanical assist to restart car movement in that position. No doubt the system will be down until sufficient modifications are made.

 

[DLgal]

I get the point you are trying to make, but the scenario you presented is so unrealistic it's funny. Having had multiple surgeries, I can assure you that there are many steps in place to prevent something like that from happening... From having the doctor confirm the procedure with you before you're put under, to actually initialling with marker the body part to be worked on, to checking the ID bracelet you're wearing and matching that up with the file, to having you confirm your name and other identifying info with that on the chart/computer...

I think the point being made by several posters is that we don't know what every procedure is that Disney has in place. I agree that it really sucks it took so long for them to rescue people, but maybe there are other procedures in place to prevent some of these really dangerous what if scenarios many people keep bringing up. If not, then surely, they will do so now.

And why do you think hospitals and surgery centers go through so many steps before surgery these days? It's because of the HUGE number of past surgical errors that occurred before these steps were taken. These guidelines came as a result of who knows how many malpractice lawsuits.

I have had a few surgeries, going back to my childhood in the 80s. I can assure you, these steps didn't exist way back when.

 

[xuxa777]

It is interesting the abundance of safety in a large part caused the delay in evacuating the system. Someone calling 911 caused the planned emergency procedure (manually rolling back in) to be halted while the fire dept. evacuated the one car.

In comparison, just last month the monorail had a 3.5+ hour evacuation of one car where 90-100 people were trapped, in the dark no lights, people vomiting, people taken to hospitals, I imagine those cars got hot. Rescue required people to climb through the escape hatch in the roof and walk on the top of of the monorail to get to the cherry picker. I would much prefer to be in a gondola, one that can be manually operated where the monorail cannot.

Very similar to Thunder Mountain. Every so often, people take to long to load system gets out of sync and the safety mechanism locks the system stopping cars on the hills. The operator can then manually release each car to enter the station but that does take some time maybe 15-20 minute reset or so. When that happens they send cast members to the trains to calm people down to keep the manual process going, because if one person demands to be evacuated then have to call fire department for rescue and then everyone has to evacuated and walked down, lets just save that takes a much much longer. Pretty much what happened on the Skyliner. Once the one car evac went into place no one was going anywhere until that was done.

Communication should have been better to prevent the person from calling 911 (of course if they really needed it call 911). If that car hadn't called 911 then the delay would most likely been less than a hour judging from the timeline. Procedures will be put in place for better announcements to help keep passengers calm but that also isn't perfect, multiple languages etc. etc.

The debate whether or not the Skyliner is safe is moot, as it is proven to be safest transportation on site based on facts, and this incident is just another example. The only issue is how to handle panicking people during mechanical delays. Communication is the answer.

Also keep in mind the concerns about RFCD being under manned etc. etc. most of that is coming from the firefighters union and for context they are currently under contract negotiations.