That didn't take long...Skyliner Accident

dachsie

DIS Veteran
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Doubtful. We are in late-stage capitalism. The only thing that's important are corporate profits and executive bonuses.

Besides, the guy he is replacing (George Kalogridis) got a promotion, so it's not like they thought he was doing a bad job and was replaced for that reason.
Where is George Kalogridis going?
 

Pucks104

Mouseketeer
Joined
Jul 11, 2018
1. Monorail is on a stable track. About 30 feet in the air. Service road along route. Skyliner unstable, rocks in the wind, 60 feet. Can be over water. No service road in many areas.

2. A lot more space to work in a monorail to prepare for transfer to rescue equipment.

Not at all the same rescue scenario.
We were at WDW a few weeks ago and leaving Magic Kingdom after the MK After Hours event. 9/19 I think. The wait for a bus was really long and finally a CM came by to tell us that the buses were delayed due to a monorail malfunction on a bridge close to Epcot that had traffic closed so buses and other transportation couldn’t get through. Once a bus finally got there to pick us up, we passed the monorail that was at the root of the problem. There were several fire trucks, rescue vehicles, police cars and buses as they were using the buckets on the fire trucks to get passengers off the monorail. A couple days later a driver of a Minnie Van said it took 3 hours to get everyone off the malfunctioning monorail.
 
  • SteveH

    Where's my Mai Tai?
    Joined
    Sep 8, 1999
    Where is George Kalogridis going?
    He was “promoted” or put out to pasture as the President of Segment Development and Enrichment. Leading the Disney Institute and serve strategic advisor to park operators.
     

    luvsJack

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Apr 3, 2007
    Wow. So much hate. I think the Skyliner is a brilliant idea, of course this setback was unfortunate.

    What was Disney supposed to do to alleviate traffic and congestion? They obviously can't expand the always broken monorail. There is only so much road for so many buses, everyone knows the state of construction the roads have been in, and for all that work the benefit won't last long as new resorts and room capacity increases. Surely we shouldn't build a waterway to all the resorts to increase the use of water transportation.

    Every 7.5 minutes on average, this system has the capability to move 1,800 people, and that's with 6 per gondola. I'm sure they could average more. 14,400 people an hour is nothing to sneeze at.

    Anyone ever been to Disney World between April and December and see a parade? Lots of people willing to stand in 99 degree weather with no covering or shade. Compared to that, sitting on a bench, covered, with a 10mph breeze is heaven. I thought people taking thermometers on these things and posting the results on youtube was silly. I was wrong, I guess it's not.
    You don't see the difference in sitting 60 ft off the ground, not knowing what is going on AND being in the heat in a closed in box (with vents, yes)? Not even close to the same as sitting on a curb in the open air watching a parade.


    Was this supposed to replace the "always broken monorail"? I understood that the monorail would still service the 3 resorts it currently does. And the Skyliner was to give alternative transportation to other resorts. If so, the monorail should be fixed too.
     

    joelkfla

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jun 13, 2001
    There's a video on the DIS Unplugged's Youtube channel of a ride through on the gondolas. There were open windows, but they were more like vents and they were up near the ceiling and it's not like you could reposition them to open them more or close them. So if there is no breeze, even though there technically IS an open window, it won't help you much because there wouldn't be any airflow in the gondola.

    All the more reason why these should have been installed with A/C units from the get go. Give it a few months, and those gondolas will smell like a stinky butt.
    The windows include about 40% of the area of 1 end, 25% of the other end, and 10% of one side. Of the 5 end windows, 4 can be opened or closed by Guests. They a have deflectors that direct the air downward. There are also floor-level vents.

    The ventilation has been designed so that there is a strong breeze circulating through the entire cabin when it's moving at cruising speed of 11mph.

    You are correct that there is very little airflow when the cabin is stationary, unless there's any outside wind blowing through. There's also reduced airflow when there's a significant breeze and the cabin is moving in the same direction as the breeze.
     
  • joelkfla

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jun 13, 2001
    They work on the probability that it won't happen so they won't have them fitted. Because as xuxa777 says they are the safest form of transport there is, they never fail.



    Cue xuxa 'whatabout' 777 posting a picture of a crashed plane or bus...
    The photo you posted was the result of an act of vandalism which occurred at night in a dark difficult to access area while the system was shut down. It was discovered as soon as workers arrived to start the system the next morning.

    It does not support your claim that cables fail.

    Even in this case, only a few cabins were damaged. "Everyone" did not "fall to the ground."
     

    UmmGooD

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Nov 29, 2007
    I wonder how many gondola evac cherry pickers they have? Perhaps they need to order a couple more.
    The problem isn't the amount of equipment they have. The problem is the amount of staff on hand. In an article I read the RCFD said that they had all hands on deck for this and it was 27 fire fighters. Only fire fighters can do the evac. Then on top of that for every gondola after the evac then they have to restage for the next evac. That means 6-10 people are rescued and then they have to move all the equipment and reset up everything again. This seems very labor intensive.

    A monorail is different because if one monorail is stuck they can setup and start getting more people off. Then maybe move the equipment for each section of the train. After 4 stages they would have the entire thing evacuated even if it takes time. For the 3 hour evacs I saw for Monorails they managed to evac the entire train in 3 hours. For the gondolas in 3.5 hours they managed to only evac 6 cars based on reports. Imagine if they couldn't have gotten it running again. How long would it have taken for RCFD to get everyone off all of the cars? I can't imagine. This is the major issue with the system. For any other transport system at WDW or ride they don't have this issue.
     

    kaytieeldr

    Post hoc, ergo propter hoc
    Joined
    Jun 11, 2005
    l
    Yeah, there isn't a snowball's chance in hell that I'll ride them now.
    Okay?

    Stranding people 60 feet in the air in a metal box for 3 or more hours IS the proble
    A problem. With the highest point being 60 feet. not everyone was stuck that high. And it was after dark.
    who thought "Oh well, we will just give these people that paid $5000 for the week a bag to pee or poop in during that 3 hours and a small bag(?) of water" was even remotely a good idea
    "Just"? Seriously? That one or more staffers even thought of emergency packs is impressive.
    Particularly when you are going to have people on the thing that may have medical issues, are disabled, and/or are prone to panic attacks.
    It's too bad this happened, but now people prone to panic attacks or with medical issues, are or should be aware of the potential, and can make informe transportation choices.
    Perhaps they didn't envision this happening already and it would be a once or twice thing that happens in the history of the gondolas bll
    Well, if it's a once thing, great! It's over and done! If it's a once or twice thing, still great. It's half over.
    Was this supposed to replace the "always broken monorail"?
    Entirely different routes, so no lf you mean eventuallt, possibly. But i always makes absolute sense to ask specific questions. It's how to get the best answers.
     
  • UmmGooD

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Nov 29, 2007
    Well, if it's a once thing, great! It's over and done! If it's a once or twice thing, still great. It's half over.
    I am glad you are optimistic. My problem now is what I posted on earlier that they only got 6 vehicles evacuated in 3 hours. They only had 27 fire fighters available to rescue. I have seen reports of them evacuating the entire monorail system in 3 hours so this concerns me. What if they couldn't have gotten the cars moving again. How long, with their current staffing, would it take to get everyone off this thing?

    You can say that it might be once and done but what are the contingency plans for this. I would want to know that people are safe and they could get everyone off in a reasonable amount of time. After this incident I don't think they can get everyone off in a reasonable amount of time.
     

    kaytieeldr

    Post hoc, ergo propter hoc
    Joined
    Jun 11, 2005
    You can say that it might be once and done
    I didn't say that. I quoted someone who said it - possibly on the assumption they "knew" what Dismey thought. Or planned?
    That is interesting. That is still more efficient than these gondolas.
    Not to someone who can step out onto a ladder or platform but can't even reach the ceiling.
     

    UmmGooD

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Nov 29, 2007
    I didn't say that. I quoted someone who said it - possibly on the assumption they "knew" what Dismey thought. Or planned?

    Not to someone who can step out onto a ladder or platform but can't even reach the ceiling.
    Yeah that seems difficult. I just looked at some reports and the roof is only used if they can't get the doors open. There is report of that from 2014 that I found. Most of the time they have a large platform that they put up next to the train and open the doors and people walk out. Based on photos I saw people walking out the side.

    For the gondolas it is much more difficult. Each car over ground needs a ladder truck with a special attachment so people can get out. It appears that only a few people can be removed at a time so a full gondola will take more than one attempt to get everyone off. Then they have to move the truck to the next gondola and start over again. Imagine time time it would take for that for every vehicle on the line. Then take into account some are over water and you need to use the special boat they came up for that purpose. Now keep in mind that RCFD mentioned that they had full staff and had 27 fire fighters on scene. If the system is down because of a power failure or some other effect I am guessing days to get everyone off based on the current setup. The monorail, regardless of how they get out, could be completely evacuated in a few hours.
     

    suemom2kay

    DIS Veteran
    DVC Gold
    Joined
    Feb 26, 2008
    Yeah that seems difficult. I just looked at some reports and the roof is only used if they can't get the doors open. There is report of that from 2014 that I found. Most of the time they have a large platform that they put up next to the train and open the doors and people walk out. Based on photos I saw people walking out the side.

    For the gondolas it is much more difficult. Each car over ground needs a ladder truck with a special attachment so people can get out. It appears that only a few people can be removed at a time so a full gondola will take more than one attempt to get everyone off. Then they have to move the truck to the next gondola and start over again. Imagine time time it would take for that for every vehicle on the line. Then take into account some are over water and you need to use the special boat they came up for that purpose. Now keep in mind that RCFD mentioned that they had full staff and had 27 fire fighters on scene. If the system is down because of a power failure or some other effect I am guessing days to get everyone off based on the current setup. The monorail, regardless of how they get out, could be completely evacuated in a few hours.
    What they need is a gondola cube on top of a scissor lift.
     

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