Still believing - Spoiler alert - Update

[cabanafrau]

Did your children experience it? Have you known a child who did, that was my question. Everyone keeps saying it and yet no one seems to have the experience. The OP’s child didn’t just start believing, so if she wasn’t bullied at 13, why assume she will be at 14. I am asking BECAUSE I know that what my kids or their peers didn’t experience may be experienced by others.

The classmate of dd’s was in middle school. It was just something they all left alone. Like Dd said, they just didn’t discuss it. Santa isn’t exactly a usual topic of conversation at that age.

No, mine did not experience it. They also did not believe Santa was real for an abnormally extended period of time either, so that wouldn't have really come up for them.

No, I do not have an anecdote that coincidentally happens to bolster my viewpoint. I'll rely on logic and my experience of human nature of adolescent humans to stand firmly by my opinion.

 

[luvsJack]

No, mine did not experience it. They also did not believe Santa was real for an abnormally extended period of time either, so that wouldn't have really come up for them.

No, I do not have an anecdote that coincidentally happens to bolster my viewpoint. I'll rely on logic and my experience of human nature of adolescent humans to stand firmly by my opinion.

So your logic and opinion counts for more than someone’s experience? Ok

Actually a few other posters did have an experience that showed teasing of kids who believe. That happens. I don’t consider it bullying but kids do tease. At that age it’s usually covering up what they are afraid of being teased about. Most kids learn what to or not to talk about at school.

And perhaps the op should guide her child not to discuss Santa at school or around her peers.

 

[cabanafrau]

So your logic and opinion counts for more than someone’s experience? Ok

Actually a few other posters did have an experience that showed teasing of kids who believe. That happens. I don’t consider it bullying but kids do tease. At that age it’s usually covering up what they are afraid of being teased about. Most kids learn what to or not to talk about at school.

And perhaps the op should guide her child not to discuss Santa at school or around her peers.

What's the difference between my using logic and my experience of how adolescents behave to formulate my opinion and you relying on your daughter's perfectly on point experience that comports with your opinion?

Of course you're also eager to minimize the experiences others cited about teasing. After all, everybody knows teasing never leads to bullying. The fact that one person mentioned it was happening to a kid who was already facing an uphill battle socially probably means it felt good to him when his peers had yet something else to mock him for.

It's not only the issue of Santa in regards to OP's child. At 14 she's long past the age where she's no doubt receiving assignments to write papers and essays. It's important that she be able to discern the difference between fictional characters and real people, living or dead. Being unable to do so opens her up for the potential of mocking by her peers that simply avoiding the topic of Santa doesn't begin to address. Kids that age aren't going to be able to reconcile the idea that the girl who understands all of those algorithms in algebra without breaking a sweat and breezes through science and social studies thinks Frozen is about two real sisters.

 

[luvsvacation]

When I was a kid I figured out Santa couldn’t be real when I was 7. No one told me, I just started thinking it all through and realized there was no way it was possible. I told my dad about this and he denied it, told me that Santa was very real and he believed in him. I was an only child at that time and I think my dad just didn’t want to see me grow up. Funny thing is that it never occurred to me that my dad was just saying these things so I would believe. I walked away thinking that my dad must be really dumb. I remember thinking I’m a kid and I can figure out Santa isn’t real, he’s a grown up and he isn’t smart enough to figure it out! A few days later my mom confirmed that Santa was not real and assured me that dad knew it too. I was relieved that my dad wasn’t an idiot

 

[luvsJack]

What's the difference between my using logic and my experience of how adolescents behave to formulate my opinion and you relying on your daughter's perfectly on point experience that comports with your opinion?

Of course you're also eager to minimize the experiences others cited about teasing. After all, everybody knows teasing never leads to bullying. The fact that one person mentioned it was happening to a kid who was already facing an uphill battle socially probably means it felt good to him when his peers had yet something else to mock him for.

It's not only the issue of Santa in regards to OP's child. At 14 she's long past the age where she's no doubt receiving assignments to write papers and essays. It's important that she be able to discern the difference between fictional characters and real people, living or dead. Being unable to do so opens her up for the potential of mocking by her peers that simply avoiding the topic of Santa doesn't begin to address. Kids that age aren't going to be able to reconcile the idea that the girl who understands all of those algorithms in algebra without breaking a sweat and breezes through science and social studies thinks Frozen is about two real sisters.

I didn't say their child was teased--THEY did. Teasing and bullying are not the same thing. Can teasing lead to bullying? Of course, but it depends on the person doing the teasing. Grown men tease/joke/pick all the time, they are not bullying. Can teasing hurt feelings, of course. But its also a part of childhood. Children are teased all the time about things. Today its their blue shoes, tomorrow its someone else's purple hat.

I am sorry that the experience of my daughter's classmate does not fit your logic, but it happened the way it happened. Just because it doesn't agree with your logic does not make it less valid.

The OP needs to have some conversations with her dd. But if the child can not reason that Elsa and Santa are not, in fact, real, then who are you to push for her to force the child. They can and should work on understanding real vs fantasy. Heck kids are taught real vs fantasy in preschool and yet they still continue to believe in Santa and Mickey Mouse. So perhaps with more time and energy spent on the lesson, she will come to the conclusion herself.

12-14 year old kids are smarter than you are giving them credit for. They have the ability to understand that there is something going on when someone can breeze through algebra but believes in Santa. and most kids that age will either leave it alone or play along or whatever. How often do you think they are actually talking about Anna and Elsa at school?

 

[Kaleidodad]

So it sounds like for a child who is predisposed to hold onto this belief longer than others their age, the issue for parents is weighing the potential joy and wonder of keeping that magic alive for a little longer, against the potential injury that might come from being teased by other kids for still having that belief.

I mean, I guess I understand both sides of that, but I'm always going to come down in favor of keeping the possibility of magic alive as long as I can for my kids, regardless of what the other kids might think. And with that comes the responsibility to help them deal with the real-life whims of their 9-14 year old friends and classmates. (Although admittedly the discussion is a bit different for special needs children.)

 

[RedAngie]

When I was a kid I figured out Santa couldn’t be real when I was 7. No one told me, I just started thinking it all through and realized there was no way it was possible. I told my dad about this and he denied it, told me that Santa was very real and he believed in him. I was an only child at that time and I think my dad just didn’t want to see me grow up. Funny thing is that it never occurred to me that my dad was just saying these things so I would believe. I walked away thinking that my dad must be really dumb. I remember thinking I’m a kid and I can figure out Santa isn’t real, he’s a grown up and he isn’t smart enough to figure it out! A few days later my mom confirmed that Santa was not real and assured me that dad knew it too. I was relieved that my dad wasn’t an idiot

I'm an only child and it was before Christmas in second grade (age 7) that I realized the truth, based on overhearing older kids, seeing numerous Santas at various places, etc. My father seemed relieved that he didn't have to put up with the farce any longer, but my mother was disappointed.

 

[cabanafrau]

I didn't say their child was teased--THEY did. Teasing and bullying are not the same thing. Can teasing lead to bullying? Of course, but it depends on the person doing the teasing. Grown men tease/joke/pick all the time, they are not bullying. Can teasing hurt feelings, of course. But its also a part of childhood. Children are teased all the time about things. Today its their blue shoes, tomorrow its someone else's purple hat.

I am sorry that the experience of my daughter's classmate does not fit your logic, but it happened the way it happened. Just because it doesn't agree with your logic does not make it less valid.

The OP needs to have some conversations with her dd. But if the child can not reason that Elsa and Santa are not, in fact, real, then who are you to push for her to force the child. They can and should work on understanding real vs fantasy. Heck kids are taught real vs fantasy in preschool and yet they still continue to believe in Santa and Mickey Mouse. So perhaps with more time and energy spent on the lesson, she will come to the conclusion herself.

12-14 year old kids are smarter than you are giving them credit for. They have the ability to understand that there is something going on when someone can breeze through algebra but believes in Santa. and most kids that age will either leave it alone or play along or whatever. How often do you think they are actually talking about Anna and Elsa at school?

Your average 14 year olds wouldn't be talking about Anna and Elsa. A kid who believes they're real certainly might -- might even attempt to write about them in an essay or for a paper, even if only as an example or a comparison when writing.

 

[luvsJack]

Your average 14 year olds wouldn't be talking about Anna and Elsa. A kid who believes they're real certainly might -- might even attempt to write about them in an essay or for a paper, even if only as an example or a comparison when writing.

I think you are reaching.

 

[cabanafrau]

I think you are reaching.

Do you have any experience to suggest that could not happen? Otherwise that's simply your opinion. Don't you need anecdotal experience to back that up?

I'm certain if I asked one of my daughters is bound to have experienced precisely what I outlined to substantiate my opinion as fact. I'll have to get right on that. Oops, no need, I know every experience of theirs as if it were my own. Opinion substantiated.

 

[luvsJack]

Do you have any experience to suggest that could not happen? Otherwise that's simply your opinion. Don't you need anecdotal experience to back that up?

I'm certain if I asked one of my daughters is bound to have experienced precisely what I outlined to substantiate my opinion as fact. I'll have to get right on that. Oops, no need, I know every experience of theirs as if it were my own. Opinion substantiated.

Just taking a page from your book and using logic.

Of course, everything you have stated has been simply your opinion.

Unless one is Spock, normally people form opinions by their life experiences and that is what I was doing. But of course, you discount that because your "logic" tells you otherwise. Logic alone didn't always serve Spock too well, may want to remember that.

and I do realize you are attempting snark there. But again, reaching.

Oh, and let me extend my apologies to you if your daughter and her friends did not talk to you about their daily lives or you didn't think of them as important enough to remember. Maybe you should rethink that.

 

[cabanafrau]

Just taking a page from your book and using logic.

Of course, everything you have stated has been simply your opinion.

Unless one is Spock, normally people form opinions by their life experiences and that is what I was doing. But of course, you discount that because your "logic" tells you otherwise. Logic alone didn't always serve Spock too well, may want to remember that.

and I do realize you are attempting snark there. But again, reaching.

Oh, and let me extend my apologies to you if your daughter and her friends did not talk to you about their daily lives or you didn't think of them as important enough to remember. Maybe you should rethink that.

Of course my daughters did not talk to me. We have zero relationship whatsoever. I know absolutely nothing about their lives, nor do I know if they have friends.

Could you break down for me exactly what I should be rethinking and where I've gone so wrong raising these creatures?

 

[luvsJack]

Of course my daughters did not talk to me. We have zero relationship whatsoever. I know absolutely nothing about their lives, nor do I know if they have friends.

Could you break down for me exactly what I should be rethinking and where I've gone so wrong raising these creatures?

Again, exaggerating. Not what I said at all.

You sure don't like it when someone questions your opinion do you? Or has a different one?

My goodness.

 

[cabanafrau]

Again, exaggerating. Not what I said at all.

You sure don't like it when someone questions your opinion do you? Or has a different one?

My goodness.

I may well be a lousy mother, but I am assured reading comprehension is not one of my deficits.

Speaking of different opinions, I live in a bubble populated by people who have their own opinions which diverge from mine everyday. It might be a regional thing though, it sounds as if where you live it's a bit different.

 

[luvsJack]

I may well be a lousy mother, but I am assured reading comprehension is not one of my deficits.

Speaking of different opinions, I live in a bubble populated by people who have their own opinions which diverge from mine everyday. It might be a regional thing though, it sounds as if where you live it's a bit different.

No, not at all. We have different opinions and we welcome differing opinions. Not sure where you came up with that one. Nothing better than a nice conversation people who have different opinions, much more entertaining than a conversation that consists of "YEAH", "That's right" and "I agree". You see, I don't live in a "bubble"; I live in the real world with real people that have real lives. And we form our opinions based on our experiences and that of our family. Usually we learn from the experience of someone older than us but sometimes those younger. And we learn about human nature through OTHER PEOPLE, not logic.

BTW, I said I was sorry if your daughter and friends did not talk to you about their day to day lives, I never said anything about them not talking to you at all. And I have no clue where you came up with the lousy mother comment.

 

[fortwildernessishome]

Oh, and let me extend my apologies to you if your daughter and her friends did not talk to you about their daily lives or you didn't think of them as important enough to remember. Maybe you should rethink that.

I don't comment much, but.....Yikes!!!!!

BTW, I said I was sorry if your daughter and friends did not talk to you about their day to day lives, I never said anything about them not talking to you at all. And I have no clue where you came up with the lousy mother comment.

Well, if your child doesn't talk to you, or if you didn't think of them as important, then yes, you are most likely a lousy Mother, so obviously that is where she came up with the lousy Mother comment.

Seems like you are getting a bit mean/snarky if you are just having a conversation and sharing opinions with another poster!!

 

[morgan98]

I am neither a parent nor a psychologist, so take this for what it is worth.

It does sound like your daughter has some delays, but you did not get into the details of if she is mainstreamed with other students who are not delayed, etc.(and I do not expect you too) I get the magic of Santa. Quite frankly, I still give an occasional special gift to my mother and sign it Love, Santa. Yes, Santa is a special thing and can live on in your heart for a long time.

However, if part of the job of parents is to help kids develop and fit into society, I can see no good coming from letting a 14 year old believe a man dresses in a suit, has elves and can deliver packages to every home in the world in one night, all while eating, drinking and feeding reindeer along the way. Another OP said it already, but I figured it out myself and brought it up to my mother at a relatively young age, because I knew logistically it was just not possible. I had a younger brother (8 years younger) and even younger cousins, so I pretended for years and can still pretend when appropriate.

I think you can break the news to her without completely killing the "Santa" spirit. If she has trouble with concepts like Santa, or that Disney characters at the park are not real, this seems to be one of her issues. I think not calling it out and helping her overcome it is not very helpful in the long run.

There comes a point where the believing becomes almost delusional and that is where it probably needs to end.

Your mileage may vary...

 

[luvsJack]

I don't comment much, but.....Yikes!!!!!



Well, if your child doesn't talk to you, or if you didn't think of them as important, then yes, you are most likely a lousy Mother, so obviously that is where she came up with the lousy Mother comment.

Seems like you are getting a bit mean/snarky if you are just having a conversation and sharing opinions with another poster!!

Not my intention at all. Just responding to her comments. She seems to doubt anyone that states something from their or their family member's experience (unless of course it agrees with her opinion. So it just seems like a foreign concept to her. How on earth would I know what kind of conversations she has with anyone?

 

[cabanafrau]

No, not at all. We have different opinions and we welcome differing opinions. Not sure where you came up with that one. Nothing better than a nice conversation people who have different opinions, much more entertaining than a conversation that consists of "YEAH", "That's right" and "I agree". You see, I don't live in a "bubble"; I live in the real world with real people that have real lives. And we form our opinions based on our experiences and that of our family. Usually we learn from the experience of someone older than us but sometimes those younger. And we learn about human nature through OTHER PEOPLE, not logic.

BTW, I said I was sorry if your daughter and friends did not talk to you about their day to day lives, I never said anything about them not talking to you at all. And I have no clue where you came up with the lousy mother comment.

I "came up with that one" from reading your comments over the years. The experiences of your children, the people you know, always magically align with your opinion in discussions, always support the idea you're putting forth. I'd say that's enough of a coinky dink to qualify under phenomenon.

As far as my daughters, I cannot summon up an experience or opinion about an endless array of topics without asking them quite a bit of the time. They're their own people, with their own thoughts, their own opinions and their own experiences. I'm not privy to absolutely everything as if it were my experience, to be summoned up out of my own mind spontaneously, nor would I want to be -- let alone that of their friends, despite many of them being in and out of my home for 15 years, some more, some less.

Probably the proof in the pudding of my lousy mothering -- my daughters actually have their own opinions about things that differ from my own, and won't hesitate to stand up for them in a discussion with me or anyone else. I'll wear my badge or sash with pride -- possibly out of complete ignorance. Bless my heart.

 

[Imzadi]

Glad to hear the other kids stepped in and perhaps that happens a lot. I would say your experience was a good thing.

Actually a few other posters did have an experience that showed teasing of kids who believe. That happens. I don’t consider it bullying but kids do tease. At that age it’s usually covering up what they are afraid of being teased about. Most kids learn what to or not to talk about at school.

I do think in the incident I witnessed, that had the other kids not intervened, the boy would have been a sobbing mess by the time the bully got through with him. This kid was fortunate. But, not all are so lucky.