Star Wars Episode 9 Loses Director and JJ Abrams is back

[lockedoutlogic]

Not sure why they can't just get a director to do more than one film rather than this piecemeal thing they seem to be doing.

At least Lucasfilm has (and should) tight controls over their vision of the story (for better or worse). Throwing someone else's "vision" into the universe could just throw things off.

I was a big optimist (shocking...I know) to Disney's purchase of lucasfilm. George needed to go away and they needed a stable, deep pocketed company that knows how to cross market across all
Media platforms...

But since 12/18/15...I have to say I have become skeptical that they have no idea what Star Wars' success is based In and that has clouded their vision...

Star Wars isn't a "visual" spectacle that is looking for new avenues for social expansion or to be introduced into the world market.

And it pains me to say this: but it's become apparent...it's never gonna be as popular for all genders/cultures and it doesn't need the box office of the Chinese.

I think if they would just write for western cultures...and make the spectacle secondary to the basic storylines...it would sell itself for another 40 years.

I don't think what they are doing can...I don't think Kathy Kennedy is strong enough...and I think its taking to much of a "global" tact and it's forced.

TFA just doesn't grip you...and rogue one was better but THEY seem disgusted by it. That was more heart and that's what they need.

The Han Solo thing was an awful idea that now is a debaucle.

They're writing a movie about a character that has all but 15 years of his life already portrayed on screen...

First they say that episode 9 was going to be "Leia's movie"...then they announce she won't be back...

Huh? Plan B? Like wwe?

Both rian Johnson and mark hamills comments make me think this one isn't standing well either.

...I don't know...and that doesn't even cover what I feel is a misguided Park vision and timidity in tv and multimedia to this point...and honestly the product has been bad.

Lots of uncertainty. I thought Star Wars would be fully resurrected when disney bought it...but apparently it's impossible to eclipse the early 80's on film?

How? Wha???

 

[nkosiek]

...I don't know...and that doesn't even cover what I feel is a misguided Park vision and timidity in tv and multimedia to this point...and honestly the product has been bad.

Lots of uncertainty. I thought Star Wars would be fully resurrected when disney bought it...but apparently it's impossible to eclipse the early 80's on film?

How? Wha???

Okay, I'm curious. What would YOU have done. I'm not saying I disagree with the above sentiment, I'm just curious what you would do/have done with the IP in terms of parks.

 

[ShadeDK]

If I'm speculating, the split resulted over creative differences for the ending of Episode IX. I'm guessing Trevorrow wanted a twist during the final duel between Rey and Kylo where the latter is defeated after a surprise T-Rex shows up "deus ex machina"-style to turn the tables. Kathleen Kennedy and crew suggested that perhaps Rey should just cut off Kylo's right hand and throw him down a reactor core while Captain Phasma and the First Order are roundly defeated by furry woodland creatures while protecting Starkiller Base 2.0. Both thought the other's ideas weren't derivative enough - and the compromise of Luke riding to Rey's rescue with a pack of dewback/raptor hybrids wasn't enough.

In all seriousness, most of my interest in "new" SW films faded away around 2 am on May 19, 1999 as I digested Episode I after months (years??) of anticipation. Empire was the first movie I ever saw in the theater. Nothing SW will ever top that for me - I'm OT all the way. I support the new movies and see them when they're released but my expectations aren't that high. All of the director issues and re-shoots and production problems suggest (at least to me) a creative ship adrift without a vision to steer by.

 

[umichigan10]

If I'm speculating, the split resulted over creative differences for the ending of Episode IX. I'm guessing Trevorrow wanted a twist during the final duel between Rey and Kylo where the latter is defeated after a surprise T-Rex shows up "deus ex machina"-style to turn the tables. Kathleen Kennedy and crew suggested that perhaps Rey should just cut off Kylo's right hand and throw him down a reactor core while Captain Phasma and the First Order are roundly defeated by furry woodland creatures while protecting Starkiller Base 2.0. Both thought the other's ideas weren't derivative enough - and the compromise of Luke riding to Rey's rescue with a pack of dewback/raptor hybrids wasn't enough.

In all seriousness, most of my interest in "new" SW films faded away around 2 am on May 19, 1999 as I digested Episode I after months (years??) of anticipation. Empire was the first movie I ever saw in the theater. Nothing SW will ever top that for me - I'm OT all the way. I support the new movies and see them when they're released but my expectations aren't that high. All of the director issues and re-shoots and production problems suggest (at least to me) a creative ship adrift without a vision to steer by.

I feel like the issue is they're making the same three movies telling a similar story. They're locked into a trilogy mindset with these films because it worked with the originals. Not saying it's a good or bad formula, but I think they 100% try and emulate the originals way too much in concept, story, and arc length where it because redundant/confused.

That being said I'm looking forward to the new movie and am cautiously optimistic. Cautious because I worry it'll be a rehash of empire; but it all remains to be seen

 

[ShadeDK]

I feel like the issue is they're making the same three movies telling a similar story. They're locked into a trilogy mindset with these films because it worked with the originals. Not saying it's a good or bad formula, but I think they 100% try and emulate the originals way too much in concept, story, and arc length where it because redundant/confused.

That being said I'm looking forward to the new movie and am cautiously optimistic. Cautious because I worry it'll be a rehash of empire; but it all remains to be seen

I couldn't agree more. Watching TFA again I found all the similarities distracting - and the dissimilarities icongruous. I wouldn't say that it's a bad movie or poorly done - I actually thought Abrams did alright given the enormous (if not unrealistic) expectations - but the new films seem to be retelling me a story I saw over 30 years ago in a better package. Of course, I'll still be there on premiere night in December - not so much for the movie but to be surrounded by and experiencing it with people who share my SW enthusiasm.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I'm VERY pleased they dropped him. For a guy who's only directed, what 3 released movies, 'Book of Henry' was shockingly bad and tonally awful. 'Safety...' was okay but nothing amazing, leaving just Jurassic World.

Given the importance of the final Episode, you really need a ultra safe pair of hands. I wouldn't be surprised if JJ steps back in...

Abrams did a compete punt and bowed to Harrison ford wanting a payday...if he's in...seacrest OUT!!

 

[lockedoutlogic]

If I'm speculating, the split resulted over creative differences for the ending of Episode IX. I'm guessing Trevorrow wanted a twist during the final duel between Rey and Kylo where the latter is defeated after a surprise T-Rex shows up "deus ex machina"-style to turn the tables. Kathleen Kennedy and crew suggested that perhaps Rey should just cut off Kylo's right hand and throw him down a reactor core while Captain Phasma and the First Order are roundly defeated by furry woodland creatures while protecting Starkiller Base 2.0. Both thought the other's ideas weren't derivative enough - and the compromise of Luke riding to Rey's rescue with a pack of dewback/raptor hybrids wasn't enough.

In all seriousness, most of my interest in "new" SW films faded away around 2 am on May 19, 1999 as I digested Episode I after months (years??) of anticipation. Empire was the first movie I ever saw in the theater. Nothing SW will ever top that for me - I'm OT all the way. I support the new movies and see them when they're released but my expectations aren't that high. All of the director issues and re-shoots and production problems suggest (at least to me) a creative ship adrift without a vision to steer by.

I honestly can't even fully process this...it's like trying to figure out what the Mona Lisa is thinking...

If there was a Noble Prize for sarcasm...you could be a very wealthy man.

And by the way - we are kindred spirits is so many ways...

I felt like a unfortunate survivor of an international disaster/cosmic event at 2 am in the driving rain in the alley outback behind the carmike 6 in state college, Pa. on that day in 1999.

I can remember the look of hopefulness and my undeniable feeling of pity for those lined up for the 4 am shows.

The ultimate walk of shame.

 

[StarWarsJez]

Abrams did a compete punt and bowed to Harrison ford wanting a payday...if he's in...seacrest OUT!!

There was a lot of pressure to put Harrison Ford in - and certainly from a box office perspective (which justified it). I'm just glad Harrison got his way and finally got the 'send off' he had asked for back in 1979...

 

[lockedoutlogic]

There was a lot of pressure to put Harrison Ford in - and certainly from a box office perspective (which justified it). I'm just glad Harrison got his way and finally got the 'send off' he had asked for back in 1979...

Was that the exit he hoped for?

And did he deserve it?

I don't know about the first...but the answer to the second is definitely "no". His fit in 1982 and 20 years of vitriol after was 100% about money...

Everybody likes money...but when something launches your career and you go on to make a half billion or so...it has been and always will be bad taste to complain about it. Shut up and just accept it for the sake of PR.

Kasdan and Abrams made it out like they really racked their brains for that kindergarten level depth movie...what exaclty was their to figure out?

What had arndt done?

It's not their fault...it's ours...disney ordered a reboot with cameos from the cocaine era set and the fans believed them at face value that it wasn't a reboot. Or have spent the last two years trying to make it out like it wasn't...but it was.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Okay, I'm curious. What would YOU have done. I'm not saying I disagree with the above sentiment, I'm just curious what you would do/have done with the IP in terms of parks.

Well...since you asked...

I don't have a major problem with what is being built as is...I think not doing established materials and doing simulators is weak - but I know who I'm dealing with...but that's a small issue.

Here's where I think it's misguided:

1. They followed the recent trends of "minilands" and that is a mistake: Harry Potter already moved out of the miniland before they lifted a shovel...and frankly neither cars nor avatar can support more than one.

But the fact is that Star Wars isn't like those. Which makes me thinks the disney execs really don't understand the potential of what they got. Sad, really.

2. The insistence of "equal treatment" for California and Florida is just dumb on the surface...one gets 60% of the attendance of the other...and the experience is being drug down by the swelling of crowds. Equal treatment just isn't warranted...and based on the clientele at disney land it wouldn't have mattered anyway.

Short sighted and stupid.

 

[ShadeDK]

I honestly can't even fully process this...it's like trying to figure out what the Mona Lisa is thinking...

If there was a Noble Prize for sarcasm...you could be a very wealthy man.

And by the way - we are kindred spirits is so many ways...

I felt like a unfortunate survivor of an international disaster/cosmic event at 2 am in the driving rain in the alley outback behind the carmike 6 in state college, Pa. on that day in 1999.

I can remember the look of hopefulness and my undeniable feeling of pity for those lined up for the 4 am shows.

The ultimate walk of shame.

All I can say is that I, too, remember exactly where I was that night - the parking deck of the Regal Cinemas Fairfax Towne Center 10 in Fairfax, VA. Something didn't feel right that night after stepping out of the theater - as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced. I feared something terrible had happened. It turns out those of us of a certain era all had a moment as it sunk in what had just happened. My roommate and I had talked incessantly about the movie for months, watched every news segment, recorded the trailer premieres, soaked up the articles. It was going to be 1977 all over again - only this time we were riding the crest of the wave. We even took our girlfriends that night. This, in retrospect, was a very bad decision.

As for sarcasm, I will gratefully accept all gratuities and donations. Anyone may PM me for wire instructions to my account in the Caymans. I figure Oscar Wilde and Mark Twain made careers of it, why can't I?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

All I can say is that I, too, remember exactly where I was that night - the parking deck of the Regal Cinemas Fairfax Towne Center 10 in Fairfax, VA. Something didn't feel right that night after stepping out of the theater - as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced. I feared something terrible had happened. It turns out those of us of a certain era all had a moment as it sunk in what had just happened. My roommate and I had talked incessantly about the movie for months, watched every news segment, recorded the trailer premieres, soaked up the articles. It was going to be 1977 all over again - only this time we were riding the crest of the wave. We even took our girlfriends that night. This, in retrospect, was a very bad decision.

As for sarcasm, I will gratefully accept all gratuities and donations. Anyone may PM me for wire instructions to my account in the Caymans. I figure Oscar Wilde and Mark Twain made careers of it, why can't I?

I'm not sure I'd use the caymans...at this rate it could be in the bottom of the Caribbean by October 1st.

I'm sure you've seen the people vs george Lucas?

My favorite part is when the kids are outside being interviewed discussing the concept of whether "it could suck" was even possible...

Both hilarious and tragic

 

[ShadeDK]

I'm not sure I'd use the caymans...at this rate it could be in the bottom of the Caribbean by October 1st.

It's okay ... I prefer liquid assets.

The cognitive dissonance leading up to Episode I was staggering - even if we were all blinded by double-bladed lightsabers. It also takes a special kind of creative storytelling genius to kill off your (arguably) two most interesting characters in the first act of the trilogy.

 

[umichigan10]

It's okay ... I prefer liquid assets.

The cognitive dissonance leading up to Episode I was staggering - even if we were all blinded by double-bladed lightsabers. It also takes a special kind of creative storytelling genius to kill off your (arguably) two most interesting characters in the first act of the trilogy.

They had to clear the deck of characters so we could focus on the worst love story in cinema history and of course lamentation about the cursed dust of the earth: sand

 

[StarWarsJez]

Was that the exit he hoped for?

And did he deserve it?

I don't know about the first...but the answer to the second is definitely "no". His fit in 1982 and 20 years of vitriol after was 100% about money...

Everybody likes money...but when something launches your career and you go on to make a half billion or so...it has been and always will be bad taste to complain about it. Shut up and just accept it for the sake of PR.

Kasdan and Abrams made it out like they really racked their brains for that kindergarten level depth movie...what exaclty was their to figure out?

What had arndt done?

It's not their fault...it's ours...disney ordered a reboot with cameos from the cocaine era set and the fans believed them at face value that it wasn't a reboot. Or have spent the last two years trying to make it out like it wasn't...but it was.

I'm not clear what point you're trying to make, but with respect to your first points, YES Harrison Ford was very happy to be killed off in Ep 7, and was similarly happy with the motivation behind it. He initially asked to be killed off in ESB during the second act. However, Lucas convinced him to stay on, but his involvement in RotJ was limited.

As far as Michael Arndt, I think he's seen as a decent writer, certainly Little Miss Sunshine, Toy Story 3 and Inside out were strong screenplays

 

[STLstone]

Well...since you asked...

I don't have a major problem with what is being built as is...I think not doing established materials and doing simulators is weak - but I know who I'm dealing with...but that's a small issue.

Here's where I think it's misguided:

1. They followed the recent trends of "minilands" and that is a mistake: Harry Potter already moved out of the miniland before they lifted a shovel...and frankly neither cars nor avatar can support more than one.

But the fact is that Star Wars isn't like those. Which makes me thinks the disney execs really don't understand the potential of what they got. Sad, really.

2. The insistence of "equal treatment" for California and Florida is just dumb on the surface...one gets 60% of the attendance of the other...and the experience is being drug down by the swelling of crowds. Equal treatment just isn't warranted...and based on the clientele at disney land it wouldn't have mattered anyway.

Short sighted and stupid.

I'm sure the new lands will be fine, but #1 on my list will always be:

They should have recreated actual places from the movies.

These lands will be hugely successful, regardless. But they would have been better if they had done that. Maybe they can rescue this by putting Galaxy's Edge into Episode IX.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I'm not clear what point you're trying to make, but with respect to your first points, YES Harrison Ford was very happy to be killed off in Ep 7, and was similarly happy with the motivation behind it. He initially asked to be killed off in ESB during the second act. However, Lucas convinced him to stay on, but his involvement in RotJ was limited.

The point is that it was done poorly and I don't think necessarily...

And Ford has behaved like a brat and really didn't deserve this. That's just my opinion...but I can make an argument if you really want to...

I thought it would be neat...but the reality is we didn't need a repeat of the daddy drama with a 76 year old ford and a fisher going on 300...

George waited about 15 years
Too long. As most of us feared: 1999 was time to do the sequels...

...and they coulda just as well skipped the prequels...at least until they could figure out how to put reasonable subterfuge on screen...

 

[tlmadden73]

As a child of the 70s/80s and also being disappointed with Episode 1 (and the prequels) I slowly see the "vision" that George Lucas had /Lucasfilm has. I understand why there were Ewoks and not Wookies in Episode VI, I understand why there are so many vehicles/characters in these movies that are just "fluff" (because they sell toys).

We liked these movies AS CHILDREN. The prequels came out to get the next generation "hooked" on Star Wars and despite 3 mediocre movies the Star Wars "hype" continued on afterwards with merchandising and the Clone Wars TV show until Disney bought Lucasfilm. A company that knows about making entertainment geared towards children and children at-heart.

Now it begins again .. as an older father we a 5 year old son he is all about Star Wars (due to me introducing him to some figures I bought for Episode VII (and some of my old ones). He loves the figures, he loves the Legos especially and all the Lego shows that poke fun at a "serious" storyline (Watch them if you haven't . .they are hilarious, especially to those who know the stories).

It is all about the "flash" to him .. the cool looking people and vehicles, lightsabers and blasters. And he hasn't even seen it in full form (he just watched Episode IV last week for the first time (almost a disaster after being freaked out by Obi-Wan cutting off someone's arm).
But because he already "knows" the stories and characters from Lego shows and books and toys without ever seeing a single movie, I could have easily just started him off with Episode VII and he would have been happy as a clam (NOTE: I feel Episode VII and Rogue One way to dark/bloody for a 5 year old, so I started with the way more kid friendly IV (and soon V and VI).

So .. that is probably what Lucasfilm/Disney want to continue .. the kids being immersed in everything Star Wars .. just like we were .. and just like the kids of 2000s were with the Prequels (because as bad as they were as a movie for adults .. they had a ton of cool vehicles, characters --- a lot of flash) - Clone Troopers, tons of Jedis, a cyborg robot general, my son loves all the toys/figures from that era moreso than the original Trilogy.

And the Disney Parks direction for it is perfect in the wake of the immersiveness of Harry Potter World. This will satisfy old and new fans alike .. no matter how good or bad the movies are ... And the hotel concept? Pure genius if they pull it off at the quality. Look at how many people our age spend money on costumes, collectibles and such. We'll be lining up for a two night stay at an immersive stay in the "world" of Star Wars .. and bring us nostalgically back to the time we were kids in the 80s.

So I am okay with Lucasfilm keeping a tight control over stuff and ditching directors that don't fit their vision.

I'm okay with their vision as long as they continue to make some fun movies .. with lots of flash .. that my son can grow up with and enjoy before he gets bogged down with seriousness of being and adult.

 

[ShadeDK]

We liked these movies AS CHILDREN. The prequels came out to get the next generation "hooked" on Star Wars and despite 3 mediocre movies the Star Wars "hype" continued on afterwards with merchandising and the Clone Wars TV show until Disney bought Lucasfilm. A company that knows about making entertainment geared towards children and children at-heart.

A well-argued post with a lot of excellent points. My peace with SW these days is largely a result of that realization - that the entire SW universe is not for me and there's a significant part of it aimed at children. And that's okay - it's a big galaxy and we can share. I have no doubt that my love of the OT is biased precisely because I was a kid when I saw it. And I like that all of the new stuff keeps SW culturally relevant and, hopefully, has a similar effect on the current generation as the OT had on me (TFA seems to have gained some traction there - but I'm hard-pressed to say I've ever met anyone who was inspired by the prequels when they were a kid).

That said, I also think it's okay for older fans to lament that the "adult" side of SW has grown thin (some of the best entertainment works on multiple levels - for kids and adults, even if they're taking away something different at the end). Sure - Lucas grew increasingly kid-friendly (and merchandise oriented) during the OT, but a lot of the original ideas were still developed, too. I grew older with those movies and found myself taking tangents thanks to SW - whether it was tearing through Joseph Campbell's work on comparative mythology that inspired Lucas or watching Kurosawa's "The Hidden Fortress" to identify those influences or looking into ILM's special effects innovations that still make parts of those movies look incredible even today. Maybe that conversation is still going on with the new stuff (which I don't deny is entertaining in its own way, even it if doesn't resonate with me), but it seems like a lot of SW from the past 20 years is just cribbing from its own notes rather than pulling from a deeper pool like the OT did. I'm not upset with what it is - but I do wonder how much more it could be.

 

[StarWarsJez]

The point is that it was done poorly and I don't think necessarily...

And Ford has behaved like a brat and really didn't deserve this. That's just my opinion...but I can make an argument if you really want to...

I thought it would be neat...but the reality is we didn't need a repeat of the daddy drama with a 76 year old ford and a fisher going on 300...

George waited about 15 years
Too long. As most of us feared: 1999 was time to do the sequels...

...and they coulda just as well skipped the prequels...at least until they could figure out how to put reasonable subterfuge on screen...

I agree with you on the prequels, I find them almost unwatchable- save a few individual scenes. Even then it's a push

Not sure why you've such animosity towards Harrison Ford though. IMO he's always been pretty supportive of Star Wars in general and I was happy with his input on the final movie - and that he got an 'end' for his character. But to each his own...