Springtime Surprise Weekend 2024 (April 18-21)

[Bree]

Not sure about further back, but the waves in B felt pretty small. However, we didn't do much stopping. They were pretty much sending them about 30 seconds apart.


^^^ THIS ^^^ We are doing this to ourselves, and I have definitely been guilty in my first few races. Those who know enough to be aware of the balloon ladies and worried about finishing are told to get as close to the front of their corral as possible for the most buffer.

Once you've done a few of these races, I think most of us realize that unless you're in the last corral with the balloons, the starting time difference between the front and back of your corral isn't more than a few minutes. But in the moment, if you are truly worried about finishing, it is easy to let your nerves get the best of you and crowd forward. I know I have no business in B, so I try to stay back and far right. There are lots of others who do the same, but not enough.

There was at least 90 seconds between waves for A and part of B. I started in wave 1 of A and the wave releases were aligned with my 60/30 interval. I could still hear the countdown and fireworks on course. According to Carissa and John’s podcast, there is up to 4 minutes between waves in the last corrals.

RunDisney will always be different than local races, so I don’t think we can accurately compare the two. RunDisney is a space for such a wide variety of runners and runners with very different objectives for the race. A local race is mostly runners out to get from the start to the finish as quickly as they can. The norms and etiquette of races are more widely known, understood and followed in a local race if for nothing else than the higher percentage of more serious and veteran runners compared to runDisney. runDisney remains an entry point, and as such is going to provide the largest variance in runners. And to be clear it should, at the heart of runDisney is a welcoming community and hopefully an environment that brings in people to be more active and have fun with friends and family.

For that very reason runDisney needs to recognize this variance and be hands on with how races are structured. They shouldn’t simply line us up and send us away figuring we will work it out on the course. I know, pie in the sky…. But if they are trying to create as positive an experience for everyone who signed up they need to address this. Expanded POT’s helps, I think much more focus on runner etiquette would also help.

But these events sell out in just a few hours, people (finger pointed directly at me) keep coming back over and over. And this even with ever increasing prices and questions to quality of the experience… I am personally happy to see expanded POT’s, that is a start.

Any local race (big or small) I’ve done is just as bad. Space Coast assigns you a corral, but it’s a piece of paper stuck to a light pole or street sign. People just start wherever they feel like it.

I really wish they would only line up one corral at a time--it would help so much with pre-race stuck in the corrals bathroom anxiety (and give people more time to get character pics!)--but I know that is wishful thinking.

They did that with corral E at W&D…………..

 

[RuntheMouse]

I think the changes being made to the POT’s will help as it will reach into the current corral B runners who were not as fast as A, but were faster than a lot of runners in the first non-POT corral. There are a lot of runners (I am one) who can obtain a medium level POT and could then be placed in a corral with like runners. Simply put, from a SS lense - I am not running a sub 1:30 10-Miler, but a sub 1:45 is something I can achieve and a sub 2:00 would mean even more people could be rightly corralled amongst similarly paced runners.

I know we got away from the A-P corrals long ago in favor of lots of mini-waves within a few corrals. And maybe that is ultimately a faster way to get everyone out on the course. But I am happy to wait a little longer than start sooner and run into so much congestion. Plus it was fun to be able to put in a POT for MW again after several years of not qualifying!

Bold from me. I am completely with you here. I fall into what I call the “gray zone” where I’m not fast but and I rarely stop for on course pics, I’m there to run. So the first non POT corral has become a nightmare for me with the crowding on course so much so that I was going to sit out runDisney races until I had a POT. With the expansion on the POT times, I have one currently for C but still trying for B this spring.

I am all about everyone running their own race, however they want to but there has to be a way to accommodate all different levels of runners. I have high hopes with the POT expansion for the upcoming season.

I also like the idea mentioned about taking characters off the course, maybe even just the first few miles so people can sort out a little more.

 

[Baloo in MI]

Last thoughts on this and I will leave it alone, because I don’t have much in the way to offer for a solution beyond what I already shared. So let me share it from my experience. I am a 4:40 marathoner so until this most recent set of registrations I had to select the first non-POT. I am a r/w/r athlete. Depending on the distance I use 1:30-:30 or 2:00-:30. I am either assigned to corral B or C. What I have experienced is if I get up front I am in the way of others and if I am to far back I have to fight from the start for space to stick with my intervals. So I do my best to find a sweet spot where I can run and shift to a walk interval without cutting ppl off or getting stuck behind groups. And generally I hit the mini wave(s) in front of me pretty quickly. This all makes the first few miles pretty tough if I am really trying to run hard.

I do think runDisney could do more around etiquette, yes a very soft message is in the guide. How about creating something like 5 guidelines to a successful race - 1) if you arepart of a group no more than two abreast; 1) if you are going to slow down raise your arm to single this change, 3) slower runners should stay to the right (this would require rD to designate the right slower and left faster instead of slower runners to the sides), 4) pass on the left, 5) check your path before stepping into it… I am sure others could be more succinct/write those better. Then they could be referred to throughout the prerace. I am sure John and Carissa could come up with creative ways to share this.

I think most folks would at least go into the race with intention to follow, they just need to know. Simply saying be kind is not enough info. Ok, getting off my soapbox; this what happens when I am stuck home sick!

 

[DisneyParrothead]

Bold from me. I am completely with you here. I fall into what I call the “gray zone” where I’m not fast but and I rarely stop for on course pics, I’m there to run. So the first non POT corral has become a nightmare for me with the crowding on course so much so that I was going to sit out runDisney races until I had a POT. With the expansion on the POT times, I have one currently for C but still trying for B this spring.

I am all about everyone running their own race, however they want to but there has to be a way to accommodate all different levels of runners. I have high hopes with the POT expansion for the upcoming season.

I also like the idea mentioned about taking characters off the course, maybe even just the first few miles so people can sort out a little more.

Same pace here! I think the 10K should also require POT because it's a mess there. Last year I got C, this year I got B, and I put the same pace requirement. Before signing up for the Fairytale Challenge for next year, I was going to stick with the 10K, and put my pace faster than it is, trying to beat the system. At least with Fairytale I can use my POT before it's too old.

 

[PrincessV]

I should probably just stay out of this entirely, but I’m feeling feisty, so…

I’ve been doing these WDW races a long time now. I’ve seen all sorts of changes in PoT requirements, corrals, etc. NOTHING has made any difference in crowding. Back when everyone without a PoT was put into the very last corral? Crowded. When they opened up most of the corrals to non-PoTs? Still crowded. Mini waves? Crowded. A gazillion smaller corrals? Crowded. Same complaints every. Single. Race. About walkers and etiquette and too many non-PoTers in a corral and not enough corrals and too many corrals and so on.

You’ve got thousands of people doing a huge variety of average paces in the same place at the same time because you’ve got people who start in early corrals stoppping for photos and falling backward into the field, you’ve got faster people who start in back corrals not stopping for photos pushing forward into the field, and even within the “no PoT” set, there’s a huge variance in paces. Now add in run-walk, which is way more prevalent at rD races than anywhere else - average pace is almost irrelevant when trying to place people properly doing run-walk, because runner A might have a MUCH faster running pace than runner B, and runner C might be doing much longer run intervals than runner D, and so on. The things that make rD races so accessible and desirable to so many are exactly the things that gum up any strategy for keeping people of differing speeds separated.

That said, my personal experience has been that some amount of crowded/not so crowded race situations is pure luck. I’ve started in the same corral (or equivalent) for many, many races, and sometimes I find a lot more open road, and other times it’s a sea of humanity from start to finish. I genuinely do not think rD can or will do anything that will change that. And just to be clear - it’s not that crowding and course congestion don’t bother me: even at my slow pace, I get fed up with feeling like I can’t move at my preferred speed, and I get inwardly pretty cranky about a line of 10 people slow-walking across the course. But I’ve seen enough to get that it’s not changing and I can either try not to let it ruin my fun, or stop doing rD races.

Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.

 

[Nala11]

I agree with a lot of the points that have been made. I've been running Disney for 10+ years and these complaints are always the same. I've started in an early corral when I used to have a proof of time and the last corral when I had a charity bib.

One other big factor that plays into crowding specifically at runDisney races is the narrow running paths thru and around the parks. My local marathon / half is fairly large (10,000ish runners) and is completely self seeded. There are banners with recommended paces but nobody checks corrals. It's not nearly as congested as Disney races, why? Most of it is run on a 3-4 lane highway. At Disney I rarely hear anyone complain about congestion on Osceola Pkwy but I doubt any of us would trade park time for more miles on open roads.

All that said, the 5-across-hand-holding-live-streaming-oblivious-walking groups get allllll my eyerolls and mutters under my breath as I go by.

 

[Naomeri]

I had a lady just before we got to Hollywood Studios on Sunday have the nerve to berate me after she passed for commenting “just suck it up and slow down for a sec, geez!” after she almost shoved me into a hedge the first time she trued, but failed, to pass me. I was running as fast as I could without stepping on the heels of the person in front of me, and I was as close to the edge of the path as I could be and still be on the path. She was like “just let me run at my pace,”—as if the rest of us didn’t want the same blasted thing?!

 

[flav]

I wanted to add to the discussion, runDisney does publish etiquette guidelines such as these ones on social media. In a cute and positive way I must say.

 

[Let's Get Kronk]

I had a lady just before we got to Hollywood Studios on Sunday have the nerve to berate me after she passed for commenting “just suck it up and slow down for a sec, geez!” after she almost shoved me into a hedge the first time she trued, but failed, to pass me. I was running as fast as I could without stepping on the heels of the person in front of me, and I was as close to the edge of the path as I could be and still be on the path. She was like “just let me run at my pace,”—as if the rest of us didn’t want the same blasted thing?!

I think this is probably the most frustrating thing about the narrow portions of the course. I am of the mindset that if someone is all the way to the left running and is passing people, then they are entitled to that portion of the race course until it is safe for them to move over. Faster runners do not automatically have the right of way over that person simply because they are running at a faster pace. AND faster runners have a responsibility as the runner BEHIND you to not impede your progress or run into you. I will die on this hill. Lol.

 

[furiated]

Tell that to the people who ran the BAA 5k last weekend. I lined up where I was "supposed to"--Wave 1, 8-9 mpm pace. That SHOULD have put me about 3000-ish runners in. It did not. People went wherever they went from all sides of the barriers. I was definitely last 3rd of starters. There was no control, only signs, which were clearly ignored. Anytime you leave this to "the mass of runners" to be honest/reasonable/realistic about how to line up, you will have a cluster. People will do whatever they want if you let them.

I think RD will do the least they can (since it's $$ for equipment/people) to manage the race start, and most people either won't care or will resign themselves to the fact that it won't be ideal.

Honestly, other than Boston--and other races that seed ALL people by time--I think this will always be the case with races, because.....people.

Just wanted to agree with you about the BAA 5K. I've been doing it for a few years now and the corral is always such a mess. They have a few self seeding signs that are always ignored. And the last few years, they've made a half assed attempt to use the same space for two waves. You'll have a white bib for Wave 1 and blue bib for Wave 2. But other than a sign that will say like Wave 1 6:00-7:00 / Wave 2 10:00 - 11:00, they make zero effort to separate the waves in the corrals. Presumably only Wave 1 should be in the shared corral to start, and then after they are sent, load in the Wave 2 people. But they have zero staff over at the corrals, so as stated above, it's a giant mess of people not knowing and not caring where they should be. I've had to give up on self seeding correctly and go closer to the front just to be able to run at the start and not right through a crowd for the first half mile.

All that being said, I did PR the most recent BAA 5K the weekend before Springtime, so I came into this race weekend feeling good!

 

[DisneyParrothead]

I had a lady just before we got to Hollywood Studios on Sunday have the nerve to berate me after she passed for commenting “just suck it up and slow down for a sec, geez!” after she almost shoved me into a hedge the first time she trued, but failed, to pass me. I was running as fast as I could without stepping on the heels of the person in front of me, and I was as close to the edge of the path as I could be and still be on the path. She was like “just let me run at my pace,”—as if the rest of us didn’t want the same blasted thing?!

Coming from a life long athlete, that's what elbows are for . If someone is that close and mean, I get my elbows out and if I pop them, so be it.

 

[Naomeri]

I think this is probably the most frustrating thing about the narrow portions of the course. I am of the mindset that if someone is all the way to the left running and is passing people, then they are entitled to that portion of the race course until it is safe for them to move over. Faster runners do not automatically have the right of way over that person simply because they are running at a faster pace. AND faster runners have a responsibility as the runner BEHIND you to not impede your progress or run into you. I will die on this hill. Lol.

Yeah, she was passing me on the right and then weaving all the way over to the far right and just generally being a menace (IMO) to civilized runners everywhere

 

[superchime]

Yeah, she was passing me on the right and then weaving all the way over to the far right and just generally being a menace (IMO) to civilized runners everywhere

This drives me absolutely bonkers. I will be as far to the right as I can possibly be and still someone will try to squeeze in there to run by me. No problem if it's grass on that side, not so great if it's a fence or hedge or something like that.

 

[amazingact21]

Congratulations on the PRs! It was fun running into you and riding Runaway Railway together.

Thanks for chatting on MMRR! What're the odds two DISers would end up in the same row? Just like the runDisney photos I guess.

No covid - took test - but have fever, sore throat, really bad headache, weakness and congestion. Good times…. I hope no one else brought home the same souvenir!

I was feeling pretty tired on Monday, but attributed it to lack of sleep and running hard. Then on Tuesday when I flew I deluded myself into thinking it was just allergies and air pressure changes. Now, I feel like I brought home the plague.
Hope you're on the recovery side and starting to feel normal again. Definitely not the best souvenir to bring home from race weekend.