Song of The South

[rteetz]

Why does everyone call it "arguing" when it comes to discussing their thoughts on a hot button issue? No one is getting heated, just chatting about their own personal thoughts and feelings. Even THAT is being censored? No one ever learns a thing if you're not allowed to even have civil conversations simply because it's a subject with strong opposing views. Everyone is never ever going to agree on every single thing. I hate this new thing of "unless everyone thinks the same way, we can't talk about it." If things turn ugly then that's a different story and I get putting a stop to it. I like to hear different opinions and often learn to see things in a different light because of discussions like these.

I’ve been doing this long enough to know these type of discussion always turns heated unfortunately. Trying to get ahead of that.

 

[skeeter31]

I’ve been doing this long enough to know these type of discussion always turns heated unfortunately. Trying to get ahead of that.

Not to mention most of these arguments stem from politics or devolve into politics, which is not allowed on this site. This is a website for Disney and the aspects around planning for trips, getting excited for new offerings in parks or theaters, etc, not for arguing the political merits for censoring a movie. And as @rteetz said, we had a thread on this a month ago and it got quite heated in there.

 

[SaintsManiac]

Not to mention most of these arguments stem from politics or devolve into politics, which is not allowed on this site. This is a website for Disney and the aspects around planning for trips, getting excited for new offerings in parks or theaters, etc, not for arguing the political merits for censoring a movie. And as @rteetz said, we had a thread on this a month ago and it got quite heated in there.

It's a thread for the community forum, not the news one. Ryan is generous for leaving it here, IMO.

 

[jerry557]

I saw SotS in the theater as a kid. I had the album, the story book, etc. It was my absolute favorite when I was 7 years old. Since then I have read and learned much about the history of this movie and what it is based on. I have learned about Reconstruction and everything from then until right now. It's not as pleasant as Uncle Remus would make you think. That is why people hate it. Does everyone hate it? Of course not. However, I do understand why some would feel it just doesn't have a place in modern society. I choose to try and always look at things from every POV.

The song IS a problem. Look up its origins.

If we ban every movie that is historically inaccurate, it'd be a pretty long list. Most movies, even ones who say are based on true events, are not really accurate to history.

It's not Disney's job to teach history to kids. This is an entertainment company.

 

[SaintsManiac]

If we ban every movie that is historically inaccurate, it'd be a pretty long list. Most movies, even ones who say are based on true events, are not really accurate to history.

It's not Disney's job to teach history to kids. This is an entertainment company.

If anyone wants to see the movie there are ways. Disney isn't going to put it out there, though. That's their prerogative since they own it.

 

[yulilin3]

The topics against this movie shouldn't be entertaining to anyone.

 

[AurumPunzel]

I've always said that the reason why SOTS is contentious is because of a lack of context that would have clarified the film's real setting, and the origins of the B'rer Rabbit story. Many assumed that the film was glorifying the Antebellum era, despite the Reconstruction era setting, and many are unaware of the real origin of B'rer Rabbit and the Tar-Baby. The latter was especially criticised for its implied racism simply by the 'tar' portion of the name, which metaphorically implied the ethnicity of the baby, even though the origins of the story actually came from African folklore, where a trickster used a similar figure made from tar or molasses as a trap, similar to how B'rer Rabbit was lured by the Tar-Baby.

Had Walt and his successors given the film more context, this would have all been avoided.

 

[Krandor]

I've always said that the reason why SOTS is contentious is because of a lack of context that would have clarified the film's real setting, and the origins of the B'rer Rabbit story. Many assumed that the film was glorifying the Antebellum era, despite the Reconstruction era setting, and many are unaware of the real origin of B'rer Rabbit and the Tar-Baby. The latter was especially criticised for its implied racism simply by the 'tar' portion of the name, which metaphorically implied the ethnicity of the baby, even though the origins of the story actually came from African folklore, where a trickster used a similar figure made from tar or molasses as a trap, similar to how B'rer Rabbit was lured by the Tar-Baby.

Had Walt and his successors given the film more context, this would have all been avoided.

the problem is starting with the uncle Remus version of the stories. That version to start with has issues due to it being a white man badically co-opting African American tales. Once you start there there is no way to make it work.

i need to see if o can find it again but there was a great article by a African American who saw sots in the theaters and their reaction was a feeling that something had been taken from them. I’ll see if I can find it.

 

[Disney Bobby]

Please do yourself a favor and read up on Reconstruction.

Thanks for the recommendation, but I don't need to read up on it. I fully understand that there were still issues with racial equality during and after Reconstruction extending into the present. But the characters in SotS are NOT slaves. Period. Lots of bad things happened to just about every group of people throughout history. The Egyptians own slaves. Should he hide all movies that are based in ancient Egyptian times? We had internment camps for Japanese Americans during WW2. Do we need to erase anything positive during that time period? The list of things that people can spin into something offensive is endless. My experience is that most don't really even care, they just enjoy the sense of moral superiority for "speaking out".

If you put SotS on Disney+ today and let kids watch it, they would come away with an overwhelming positive message from it. The movie would have to be spun and framed as racist by someone else for a kid to walk away with that impression. And I don't believe for a second that Walt Disney was a racist and was pushing racist propaganda to children. Absolutely absurd. And most people that complain about don't really believe that either. That's why they crowd into Disney parks, spend a lot of money, and get in one of the longest wait lines a Disney to ride Splash Mountain.

Or maybe they should just head over to the Seven Little People Mine Train.

 

[Ms.Minnie]

I'm not sure if this the right place to post this, but, it's on the news that Disney are going to place warnings about racial stereotypes at the beginning of movies such as Peter Pan and Dumbo, the original animation.
Now, this is fair enough, but, how about reissuing Song Of The South with this warning as, to be honest, the racial stereotyping in this is less offensive than the way Native Americans are depicted in Peter Pan. Plus it would be lovely for everyone to see the wonderful performances of the black actors including James Baskett and Hattie McDaniels too.

I saw this on the news this morning and the point was made that the warning would have to be expanded to include other movies such as 101 Dalmatians, Snow White or any movie with older people depicted in a negative light. The reason being ageism, depicting old people in an unflattering or negative light. Ever notice how most of the villains seem to be older people?

Ageism is the stereotyping, prejudice, and discrimination against people on the basis of their age. Ageism is widespread and an insidious practice which has harmful effects on the health of older adults. For older people, ageism is an everyday challenge.

Question is where does it end? If a person doesn’t want to view a movie of other programming / forms of entertainment they have the right to not view or simply turn it off. For example there are a few TV programs that after viewing a few times we have chosen to no longer view because of what I see as blatant racism against white people. I don’t care to watch reverse discrimination or any kind of discrimination for that matter. We all have the freedom to watch or not watch, to listen or not listen (some artists' language in rap music) as we each see fit. No one is twisting your arm. It’s just a shame that some feel the need to decide for all of us.

 

[Handykapper]

Enjoying this thread

 

[jerry557]

The topics against this movie shouldn't be entertaining to anyone.

A little kid watching most of these movies will never even make the type of racial connections that adults instantly make. To the kid, it's just a cartoon. Perhaps when they are old enough to understand such topics, then a deeper conversation is needed as to why certain things are offensive. But outright censorship and pretending the movie never existed is not the way to go. These films are a product of the time they were created. Are we going to ban every movie and piece of literature and artwork because we are not comfortable confronting certain issues? Remember that those who do not learn from the past will repeat it. Ultimately, communication is more important than outright censorship.

 

[rteetz]

Ultimately, communication is more important than outright censorship.

Which can be done without this film being available to the general public. This wasn’t some smashing success of a film either. I have never seen it. I am curious sure but I really could care less if they release it or not. I don’t understand why some people want it so bad.

 

[Disney Bobby]

A little kid watching most of these movies will never even make the type of racial connections that adults instantly make. To the kid, it's just a cartoon. Perhaps when they are old enough to understand such topics, then a deeper conversation is needed as to why certain things are offensive. But outright censorship and pretending the movie never existed is not the way to go. These films are a product of the time they were created. Are we going to ban every movie and piece of literature and artwork because we are not comfortable confronting certain issues? Remember that those who do not learn from the past will repeat it. Ultimately, communication is more important than outright censorship.

You will find that many of the people that are mortified by SotS would scream if you tried to suppress some of the vile. misogynism, racist, hateful language in many songs today that you can buy just about anywhere.

And Zip, no mater what you believe if was loosely based of, is 100X better than even one of the most popular songs in pop music today. If you are upset of Zip, your hair should literally be on fire speaking out over THAT song and the thousands just like it.

 

[Boopuff]

You will find that many of the people that are mortified by SotS would scream if you tried to suppress some of the vile. misogynism, racist, hateful language in many songs today that you can buy just about anywhere.

And Zip, no mater what you believe if was loosely based of, is 100X better than even one of the most popular songs in pop music today. If you are upset of Zip, your hair should literally be on fire speaking out over THAT song and the thousands just like it.

I can’t agree more about some of the disgusting pop/rap music. We walked out of a bar/restaurant that was playing some very explicit rap music. That was my choice to leave, and in doing so the bar lost a few customers. same with tv and movies, if you don’t like it change the channel! It doesn’t mean I can’t watch because you’re offended. same with my bar situation, I didn’t make them change the music, I chose to leave. Problem solved.

 

[PollyannaMom]

Please do yourself a favor and read up on Reconstruction.

Not the poster you quoted, but I do know that Reconstruction was terribly mishandled and turned into a huge mess. However (probably predictable from my screen name ) I see the movie’s message not as “Reconstruction worked great” but as “There is hope even in troubled times” - and how much more “Disney” can you get than that theme?

... I have never seen it. I am curious sure but I really could care less if they release it or not. I don’t understand why some people want it so bad.

I’ve seen it, and no, you’re not missing some great film (other than as a noteworthy example of combining live action and animation at a time when it was much harder than it is now, of course!)

What I remember taking away from it as a kid, though, was absolutely not that the white characters were better than the black ones. It was exactly the opposite, in fact - that Uncle Remus had far more to teach the children than the white adults in the big plantation house. In fact, as far as I remember, all the “bad guys” in the movie were white - Johnny’s dad, the bully kids down the road...

Yes, the film made the lives of the black characters look too easy, but it also told us, about as plain as could be, that we should have listened to them!

I’m not out there screaming for Disney to bring it back. I get that it’s not worth the controversy right now. But I do understand why some people like it.

 

[SaintsManiac]

My experience is that most don't really even care, they just enjoy the sense of moral superiority for "speaking out".

I am sincerely sorry that you feel that way. I know that sometimes the PC police can be a bit much. However, when it comes to this particular movie I am fine with it going away forever.

Look, I am not a black person. But I am an ally and I listen and hear them on this. We had a nice discussion about this in the D.O.C. thread in the Unplugged forum. I encourage you to read it.

I can understand why people feel nostalgic about this movie. I honestly do see all sides on this controversy.

 

[Disney Bobby]

I am sincerely sorry that you feel that way. I know that sometimes the PC police can be a bit much. However, when it comes to this particular movie I am fine with it going away forever.

Look, I am not a black person. But I am an ally and I listen and hear them on this. We had a nice discussion about this in the D.O.C. thread in the Unplugged forum. I encourage you to read it.

I can understand why people feel nostalgic about this movie. I honestly do see all sides on this controversy.

You can make it go away forever for yourself. Anyone else that feels if should go away forever can make it go away forever for themselves.

Why do you think it's right to make it go away for everyone? In an "I can see all sides" scenario, wouldn't it make sense to let the individual sides choose for themselves?

THAT song I referenced before is one of the most vile and disgusting things I've ever seen go mainstream. And now there is even a Disney parody online, which I'm surprised Disney hasn't squashed yet, but whatever. Is it my right to bully the folks that produce and distribute THAT song into erasing it from existence? Is it ok with you for that song to go away forever for everyone?

 

[skeeter31]

You can make it go away forever for yourself. Anyone else that feels if should go away forever can make it go away forever for themselves.

Why do you think it's right to make it go away for everyone? In an "I can see all sides" scenario, wouldn't it make sense to let the individual sides choose for themselves?

THAT song I referenced before is one of the most vile and disgusting things I've ever seen go mainstream. And now there is even a Disney parody online, which I'm surprised Disney hasn't squashed yet, but whatever. Is it my right to bully the folks that produce and distribute THAT song into erasing it from existence? Is it ok with you for that song to go away forever for everyone?

Because Disney owns it, and they have made it clear they don’t want it released. There’s really no point in continuing to argue about it. It’s not coming out, period.

 

[Disney Bobby]

Because Disney owns it, and they have made it clear they don’t want it released. There’s really no point in continuing to argue about it. It’s not coming out, period.

Because people have bullied them into hiding it. Yet many of the same people have no problem with the vile, disgusting songs and movies that are released today.

Mob justice, and the mob isn't really that big to begin with. The lines at Splash Mountain prove that.