Reunion Station Closing 3 Feb

Member was told due to under performance.

Is anyone surprised?

No

Why didn’t they put on a genuine, good value, member benefit?

Cause that wouldn't maximize profit!

Charge $30 a day with good hours and it would be a hit, and they’d still make money.

Even then, I don't think it would attract folks beyond VWL/WL. And between CCV/BRV, there are what, 300 or so rooms? That's not a big potential customer base.

Maybe DVC owners are not always the cash cow?

You mean people who bought DVC for the $ savings and cook meals in their rooms don't have bottomless pockets?
 
Yeah, seemed like a huge money grab by DVC, hope the members of CCV don't get soaked for the refurb into something that they try.
 


Fingers crossed for a Community Hall, but I'm not holding my breath. I can't imagine them building something that doesn't really bring in $$$, but I hope that I'm wrong! But maybe they can still work it out where they have those paid classes (photography, art, etc.) in addition to the CH.
 


I could see it having maybe worked if they labeled some rooms as "concierge" and for more points (not "cash") you got access, seems like the AKV concierge rooms sell out right away. I think not assigning a dollar amount would've pulled more people in.
 
I could see it having maybe worked if they labeled some rooms as "concierge" and for more points (not "cash") you got access

DVC never wanted to offer Club amenities at AKV. They got stuck with those units based on geography and are dependent on the resort's offering of Club. If AKV makes substantive changes (which over 50 years: highly likely) they will need to absorb those points elsewhere in the resort. DVC does not want to commit to a point-based amenity for 50 years.

seems like the AKV concierge rooms sell out right away
There are 5. So that is a factor.

Yeah, seemed like a huge money grab by DVC

With the understanding that I think Reunion Station was a stupid concept, stupidly executed, I've been considering the economics of it and $50 per person per day may not have been out of line with mainline club offering.

Alcohol tends to be high margin when sold in restaurants. Food is variable when offered via this kind of amenity, as most food margin at restaurants comes via the markup.. Lease costs and labor are the big fixed costs for any kind of hospitality.

With Reunion Station as a cash offering, they don't have a fixed base of likely occupancy (like a 50-70% range estimate when doing P&L on the main Club Level. Possibly higher).

If we look at the difference in Club Level and non-Club rates at a few resorts...
  • Wilderness Lodge, Regular Season: Standard $456/$468/$501, Courtyard $575/$594/$649, Club $728/$754/$828
  • AKV, Regular Season: Standard $458/$471/$508, Savannah $633/$659/$735, Club Savannah $756/$772/$816
  • Poly, Regular: Garden $626/$655/$740, Garden Club $891/$909/$963
While there is some seasonal variance, it's not huge. The WL and AKL rooms each hold 4 people, so the spread from WL Standard to Club is $272/$286/$327, which is more than $50pp/night. AKL, often known as the cheapest CL (pending CSR), is only $123/$113/$76 for spread, which is obviously less per person per night. Poly, you're looking at a larger spread as well - $265/$254/$223. Now, Poly units hold 5, but I suspect the average occupancy is closer to 3.5. Nonetheless, you're not way out of range of $50pp.

The numbers across the other deluxes also varies, comparing similar view to similar view. The spread at WL is less when you consider Courtyard, but I'm not sure what Club's view is.

You have to add in some fudge for not having the more consistent commitment of Club Units that are bookable - in other words, since it's an add on, demand is far more variable.

I suspect if booked to maximum, the overall profit margin wasn't spectacular, even at $50 per person.
 
With the understanding that I think Reunion Station was a stupid concept, stupidly executed, I've been considering the economics of it and $50 per person per day may not have been out of line with mainline club offering.

I don't think the price was out of line with what other club rooms cost, but weren't the hours shorter than other club level offerings? And you had to walk to another building to take advantage of it (it may be like that at Poly or GF, I'm not sure... but comparing it to WL and AKV club level, those are really convenient to the rooms).
 
I simply don't get it. But I also don't understand club level either. I'd rather put the money elsewhere instead of paying a premium for airport lounge style food and drink. I mean it's $25 more for a DP for adults and $6 less for kids per day. I would prefer to go that route if this was about food and drink. I guess maybe if you sit and there and have 5+ cocktails you may break even.
 
I don't think the price was out of line with what other club rooms cost, but weren't the hours shorter than other club level offerings? And you had to walk to another building to take advantage of it (it may be like that at Poly or GF, I'm not sure... but comparing it to WL and AKV club level, those are really convenient to the rooms).
I believe at CR Garden Wing Club you have to walk to Tower. Not sure the configurations at GF. At Poly, I believe Club is same building for the units eligible. (I think Tonga has its own lounge but I'm not nearly fancy enough to stay in Tonga.)
 
It (and GP) should have become a true Signature restaurant sitting on the water. Instead, we have a quasi-bar, quasi-TS, quasi-QS place that can be hot during the summer and must be shuttered to be comfortable during nasty weather, and a hall that will hold photo classes, wine tastings, and craft classes. Hmmm.
 
I simply don't get it. But I also don't understand club level either. I'd rather put the money elsewhere instead of paying a premium for airport lounge style food and drink. I mean it's $25 more for a DP for adults and $6 less for kids per day. I would prefer to go that route if this was about food and drink. I guess maybe if you sit and there and have 5+ cocktails you may break even.

Agree. Cause it's not even 'cocktails,' just inexpensive or Disney branded beer and wine. For very limited hours.

We gave it a hard pass on our January trip - much preferred Geyser Point!
 
I'm glad that they tried, but I'm not surprised or disappointed that it is closing. Anything like this is a give-and-take between us and them: They set it up the way it makes sense to them financially and we decide whether it makes sense to us financially. I don't think they should waste money keeping a place operating that we aren't patronizing as much as they thought we would, or waste even more money making it less profitable than planned just to make it more attractive to us. If they can take that money and use it for something else that would be better for them, then that is what they should do.

I think investing in a "true Signature restaurant" is a bad move right now. Look at Artist Point. They took a fine restaurant and in several steps turned in into a premium character dining experience. I think that means Disney sees that many of us guests no longer willing to pay the price for Signature dining. And they're right: I remember trips in the past when we'd book both lunch and dinner, and sometimes breakfast too, at table service restaurants. We just don't do that anymore. Why? Besides the excessive expense (which used to not bother us much) it just seems too fussy for the kind of casual vacation we want. (To be fair, part of the reason for this is that they are adding a lot of better and healthier choices to their counter service menus.)
 
I think investing in a "true Signature restaurant" is a bad move right now. Look at Artist Point. They took a fine restaurant and in several steps turned in into a premium character dining experience. I think that means Disney sees that many of us guests no longer willing to pay the price for Signature dining. And they're right: I remember trips in the past when we'd book both lunch and dinner, and sometimes breakfast too, at table service restaurants. We just don't do that anymore. Why? Besides the excessive expense (which used to not bother us much) it just seems too fussy for the kind of casual vacation we want. (To be fair, part of the reason for this is that they are adding a lot of better and healthier choices to their counter service menus.)

I think there is definitely a decent size pool of Disney guests that DO want signature dining. Artiste Pointe was just out of the way and served a "foodie" type of food that may be foreign to many Disney guests. It wasn't making money so Disney changed its concept(its still a foodie menu though). California Grill, Narcoosees, and V&A's, which serve what Id call more traditional high end American fare, continue to be booked full.
 
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California Grill, Narcoosees, and V&A's, which server what Id call more traditional high end American fare, continue to be booked full.
Yes, and I don't see any of those changing. They're not going to get rid of fine dining, but rather they probably will reduce the choices for truly fine dining. Think about Brown Derby, Le Cellier, Yachtsman Steakhouse and Jiko. Even if they remain Signature restaurants, I wonder how much more often we'll see people voice irate complaints like, "XXX at a Signature restaurant?!?!?" I've seen a lot disappointment expressed about Le Cellier, referring to shrinking portion sizes and service no longer as excellent as it once was, and citing far better steakhouses on property. All Disney needs is an animated feature based in Canada and I bet Le Cellier becomes a character meal. And for Jiko, did I read it correctly? They've reduced the number of tables for the restaurant to make room for the lounge? I think we'll see fine dining suffer "death by a thousand cuts" at least one of those four Signature restaurants.
 
Yes, and I don't see any of those changing. They're not going to get rid of fine dining, but rather they probably will reduce the choices for truly fine dining. Think about Brown Derby, Le Cellier, Yachtsman Steakhouse and Jiko. Even if they remain Signature restaurants, I wonder how much more often we'll see people voice irate complaints like, "XXX at a Signature restaurant?!?!?" I've seen a lot disappointment expressed about Le Cellier, referring to shrinking portion sizes and service no longer as excellent as it once was, and citing far better steakhouses on property. All Disney needs is an animated feature based in Canada and I bet Le Cellier becomes a character meal. And for Jiko, did I read it correctly? They've reduced the number of tables for the restaurant to make room for the lounge? I think we'll see fine dining suffer "death by a thousand cuts" at least one of those four Signature restaurants.

As long as they don't close Jiko, I can live without those other three. : )
 
I'm one of those who does enjoy more upscale dining for at least a couple of meals, and AP was one of our faves. Not ever having seen any financial report on the restaurant, I'm not convinced it was losing money, though based on anecdotal evidence it was likely not making money in terms of how Disney perceives that should be. That's a rather moot point now that it has shuttered that intent and been re-imagined as yet another character meal. Here's the thing about fine dining--if you make it good enough, then people will want to eat there anyway, and will do so regardless of the menu. I must politely disagree that the food at AP was beyond a typical palate. We've been going for over a decade, and yes, a dish or two certainly was "exotic" on occasion (they had this Asian fusion thing going on for a time) but they mostly had steak, pork, chicken, potatoes, fish, and veggies. A larger issue was that Disney didn't push the restaurant, and it needed such because it is also considered, falsely so, as "out of the way." They had a choice to go Signature with style, a la CG or one of the GF restaurants. A closer analogy would be Napa Rose. It's a topnotch dining experience, charges as much or more than CG, and is busy. (Yes, NR sits near two parks and DD, so that's a big advantage.) Still, the argument of AP being difficult to get to holds true for many resort restaurants unless you happen to book one of the deluxe monorail resorts. On most occasions, we do not stay at a monorail resort, so if we want to get to CG, Jiko, FF, et.al., we have to work at it. AP wasn't popular enough it seems, and Disney deliberately made the choice to not reward a significant number of people who loved it and make it better. We don't care for WCC, will not step foot into the character meal, and GP is solid but not upscale.

Another larger argument with which I agree is that Disney has priced themselves to a point where a typical TS restaurant bill (much less a Signature) would be considered upscale dining in many areas, and the food definitely isn't worth it in most cases. So, yes, I think we'll see a general decline in Signatures as they downscale them to upper end TS. That's exactly what happened at AP. While many won't miss the Signatures, we will. We've already started taking our dollars to offsite restaurants as a result of the failing quality and rising prices of Disney dining.
 
I cannot remember a time when Disney's food was worth the price were the meal to be offered instead in other areas of the country. If I recall correctly, Disney's pricing for fine dining has rivaled New York's pricing for fine dining since there was anything resembling fine dining on property.

AP was very popular at one time, and popular in a way that had it crowded due to locals dining there. I remember a former colleague who had retired to Orlando meeting me at Territory Lounge at least once each trip. After a drink we'd go into the dining room to have a nice meal together, and the staff would greet him by name. That part of AP's business is of course affected by how the average person's appetite for fine dining changes over time, but I think it was also affected by a substantial increase in off-site options. With so much of the surrounding area being developed, there are far more choices than there used to be and so AP suffered from a loss of local traffic.
 

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