"reshaping our annual pass program"

[RedHotMama]

In the end though, no matter where you are coming from, it's supply and demand - and when demand exceeds supply then the prices normally keeps going up and up and up!

It is supply and demand. And it seems that at least sometimes, the supply cannot keep up.

So I think I have the best solution. We need another Disney park in the US!

This could be a whole new thread.

 

[sherilaine]

It is supply and demand. And it seems that at least sometimes, the supply cannot keep up.

So I think I have the best solution. We need another Disney park in the US!

This could be a whole new thread.

Or CANADA? Maybe they could build one here, we got nothing if not room and think of the $ you'd save on the exchange - and you know how much Disney loves all things frozen!

 

[gottalovepluto]

It's 2018 now. Did you mean you bought your pass in Dec 2017? I also can't see blackout dates out to March 2019. I can only see out to December 2018.

ROFL. Fixed that! Yeah, I bought Dec 2017 and at the time I could see block out calendars through 2018.

Ok, so I figured part of it out! Online I can only see blockout dates through Jan 2019 for all passes when I go here: https://disneyland.disney.go.com/passes/blockout-dates/ . Within the app where my ticket is stored the Blockout Calendar gives me dates all the way through March of 2019 for my SoCal Select AP. Idk about other types.

 

[cmwade77]

My guess is that in the end there will simply be two pass levels available for anyone to purchase: One Park per Day and Park Hopper that will be similar in price to Signature and Signature+ prices as they are today. Then there will be some "special categories" like a So. Cal Pass, DVC Pass, etc. that will be available from time to time and will have blockout dates and may not include parking or MaxPass.

I also wouldn't be surprised to see the monthly payment plan change to a 6 month payment plan, meaning higher monthly payments for the first 6 months the pass is valid for, then 6 months of no payments to match other theme parks in the area.

Ultimately what has happened is Disney has failed to increase capacity by building new attractions at an appropriate rate and in reality they have nothing that compares to Harry Potter at Universal, etc. But these competing parks have built popular attractions that are bringing in the crowds, who all also want to visit Disneyland because it is Disneyland, which means Disneyland becomes more crowded, even though they didn't do anything to attract the visitors. The problem is that also means they have really done nothing other than adjust prices to try to handle the crowds.

Disney could do some short term things very quickly:

• Reopen Aladdin's Oasis as a sit down dining venue of some shape or form
• Use the old Millionaire building for a high quality show
• Use the old Muppets Building for a good show, not just a preview of an upcoming movie
• Use the old Hollywood and Dine building for a new sit down restaurant.
• Use other unused/underutilized spaces

Long term, they need to do something and start it quickly, some things they could do:

• Expand Fantasyland, there is a ton of dirt lot (yes, I know it is currently used for drainage, but the could build on top of that and still have drainage) and the old Motorboat Lagoon area could be used as well.
• Fix Tomorrowland - Includes bringing back a version of the People mover, which could chew through crowds, while it wouldn't be cheap, it is needed. Bring back a theater into what is now Star Wars Launch Bay, given that this would be a venue that could handle 100+ people every 5 minutes or so, this would help with overcrowding.
• Build a new Downtown Disney where they were going to build the Eastern Gateway, then reclaim the land that is currently Downtown Disney that isn't going to be part of the new hotel for the parks. This would have the added benefit of being able to provide an entrance into the parks from the new hotel. They could even buy Garden Walk, which is apparently for sale to make it even larger if they wanted.
• Use the remainder of the old Timon lot to expand DCA, probably with a Marvel theme.
• Finally do as they promised they would when they bought the Strawberry Fields and build a third theme park where the Toy Story lot is.

The list could go on and on, but this is needed to get capacity to where it needs to be.

Another option is Disney could cap attendance to the parks at say 60% of what they currently deem maximum capacity to be.

 

[Niltiac]

I would love if there was a "pass" option that had like 10-15 visits in the year. As an out-of-stater, that would be awesome as long as the black out dates were reasonable.

I don't have high hopes, but I would also love something like this. I like having an AP because we're close enough to go for a quick weekend here or there, but we're not close enough to go every weekend or even every month, so we're not really getting the full value of the AP's. A 15-day or 20-day pass would be enough to make a few weekend trips throughout the year and then one big trip, which is the pattern we tend to fall into when we have AP's. If AP's are too expensive to justify for occasional use (which they are these days), we would end up dropping the extra weekends and only making bigger trips every couple of years. So if Disney wants to keep us and others like us coming multiple times per year, maybe they'll come up with something in between for us. But again, I don't have high hopes.

I think the AP's are actually still a good deal for those who live close enough that they don't need to book a hotel because those people both have lower expenses per trip (gas, airfare, hotel) and more opportunities to use their passes on a whim. I can't count the number of times I've thought "if I knew two months ago this weekend would be free I could have planned a trip!"

 

[Nonsuch]

The AP changes seem related to SW:GE

Universal Orlando had to deal with huge crowds for their Harry Potter lands, with lines extending from the back of the park (where HP is located) snaking to the main entrance and into City Walk (DTD equivalent). Universal implemented a return time system (similar to fastpass) to control crowds entering the HP "land'.

SW:GE will create similar huge crowds, and Disney will need a way to control access.

Some of my ideas, not based on any official information:

• Entry to SW:GE limited to fastpass only (no-standby) for a few weeks (as needed)
• Allow fastpass to be booked in advance
• AP holders MUST book fastpass in advance

This is similar to how museums handle special exhibits. Museum members (like AP holders) have free admission at any time, but for special exhibits must book a timed entry ticket in advance.

 

[RedHotMama]

Or CANADA? Maybe they could build one here, we got nothing if not room and think of the $ you'd save on the exchange - and you know how much Disney loves all things frozen!

Canada would be awesome. I'm afraid the weather would be tricky too many days out of the year, though.

 

[longtimedisneylurker]

It's 2018 now. Did you mean you bought your pass in Dec 2017? I also can't see blackout dates out to March 2019. I can only see out to December 2018.

The blackout calendar shows up to 12 months at a time since it shows the current month plus the next 11. Right now, you can see Feb. 2018 - Jan. 2019. When March 1 arrives, the calendar will show March 2018 - Feb. 2019 unless Disney changes their practice. Blackout dates can be changed even after the calendar has been revealed to the public, but I don't think that happens very often. Since I haven't looked at the So Cal AP black out calendar until reading this thread, I don't know if the no-Sundays was part of the calendar for October and December when they were first posted in November and January respectively and people are only now noticing the change or if it has changed since posting.

ETA: Corrected incorrect day of the week reference.

 

[dina444444]

The blackout calendar shows up to 12 months at a time since it shows the current month plus the next 11. Right now, you can see Feb. 2018 - Jan. 2019. When March 1 arrives, the calendar will show March 2018 - Feb. 2019 unless Disney changes their practice. Blackout dates can be changed even after the calendar has been revealed to the public, but I don't think that happens very often. Since I haven't looked at the So Cal AP black out calendar until reading this thread, I don't know if the no-Saturdays was part of the calendar for October and December when they were first posted in November and January respectively and people are only now noticing the change or if it has changed since posting.

The So Cal pass was never good on Saturday’s. It’s now blocked on Sundays during those 2 months. I only noticed it in the last 2 days, I think it’s recent changes.

 

[Geemo]

Canada would be awesome. I'm afraid the weather would be tricky too many days out of the year, though.

So for a Canadian-Disney Park, the calendar would have "White-out Dates" instead of Black-out dates, due to weather?

 

[Howry]

It is supply and demand. And it seems that at least sometimes, the supply cannot keep up.

So I think I have the best solution. We need another Disney park in the US!

This could be a whole new thread.

My wife and I were just talking about them adding another park. We came to the conclusion that Texas would be the best option. Its more centered in the US even though it is far south. It has a large population. 29 million or so. It is a major cruise ship hub.

The only drawback with adding another park is economy. While things are booming right now, if it slowed down or stopped it wouldn't be able to sustain. It would be a big risk.

 

[sherilaine]

Canada would be awesome. I'm afraid the weather would be tricky too many days out of the year, though.

So for a Canadian-Disney Park, the calendar would have "White-out Dates" instead of Black-out dates, due to weather?

We have seen people with hats and coats in DLR when we were in shorts and t-shirts thinking it’s hot, so yeah it likely wouldn’t happen.

 

[longtimedisneylurker]

The So Cal pass was never good on Saturday’s. It’s now blocked on Sundays during those 2 months. I only noticed it in the last 2 days, I think it’s recent changes.

Sorry, mis-typed. Meant Sundays. There is disappointment that it is blacked out on Sundays in October and December.

 

[halfmonkey]

I think people in general just need to adjust their mentality of crowds and going to public places. It seems that people think because they're paying a lot of money that they're owed a lot less troublesome experience. Frankly, Disney doesn't owe anybody anything. It's a business and they're in the business to make money. Disney use to have months and period that were considered low crowds because quite frankly, there was a time when Disney parks weren't doing too well. Times have changed and Disney business have made acquisitions and changes to drive people back to the parks. Add in the fact that the economy is doing well and you have a receipt for disaster so of speak. If Disney wasn't a place that you didn't want to go to, well then the crowds would be low but since they've made some acquisitions and changes that people want and like, people are going to the park.

The best thing you can do for yourself is accept that the park is crowded and if you happen to be there on a day that isn't crowded, well consider yourself lucky. That's how we look at it so we don't waste our valuable family time together hissing and pissing over something that I have no control like crowds and how other people act. If I were to huff and puff over the rudeness and inconsideratness of other people, I'd be grump and pissed off all day long. I choose not to let it get to me.

Someone mentioned that they had some friends visit and was all hot and bothered with the crowds and decided they would never come back again. Frankly, I think they've got it all wrong. Their priorities, in my humble opinion, are mixed up.

Another way to look at it is this. If it wasn't crowded, that means that people are not interested in going and that means something's not right. Just look at Magic Mountain. I used to go like 20 years or so ago and they were crowded. Now they turned around a little but there was a time where they couldn't even get you to go if they gave away tickets. Certainly having gang members there didn't help but my point is, there is a reason why it's so busy and that's because Disney is doing something RIGHT and people WANT to go.

Keep up the good work Disney but let's also keep and eye for overdoing it on the pricing.

 

[DLgal]

I think people in general just need to adjust their mentality of crowds and going to public places. It seems that people think because they're paying a lot of money that they're owed a lot less troublesome experience. Frankly, Disney doesn't owe anybody anything. It's a business and they're in the business to make money. Disney use to have months and period that were considered low crowds because quite frankly, there was a time when Disney parks weren't doing too well. Times have changed and Disney business have made acquisitions and changes to drive people back to the parks. Add in the fact that the economy is doing well and you have a receipt for disaster so of speak. If Disney wasn't a place that you didn't want to go to, well then the crowds would be low but since they've made some acquisitions and changes that people want and like, people are going to the park.

The best thing you can do for yourself is accept that the park is crowded and if you happen to be there on a day that isn't crowded, well consider yourself lucky. That's how we look at it so we don't waste our valuable family time together hissing and pissing over something that I have no control like crowds and how other people act. If I were to huff and puff over the rudeness and inconsideratness of other people, I'd be grump and pissed off all day long. I choose not to let it get to me.

Someone mentioned that they had some friends visit and was all hot and bothered with the crowds and decided they would never come back again. Frankly, I think they've got it all wrong. Their priorities, in my humble opinion, are mixed up.

Another way to look at it is this. If it wasn't crowded, that means that people are not interested in going and that means something's not right. Just look at Magic Mountain. I used to go like 20 years or so ago and they were crowded. Now they turned around a little but there was a time where they couldn't even get you to go if they gave away tickets. Certainly having gang members there didn't help but my point is, there is a reason why it's so busy and that's because Disney is doing something RIGHT and people WANT to go.

Keep up the good work Disney but let's also keep and eye for overdoing it on the pricing.

The problem is that Disney is not managing the crowds well. They are being inefficient in several key areas and that adds to the frustration guests experience.

I went to the parks yesterday with my kids who had a day off school. From our garage to the M&F parking structure is a 15 min trip. We left home at 8:00am. We did not walk through the gates at DL until 10:05am. That is ridiculous. Here are some reasons for that:

1. The parking garage toll booths were only staffed at 50%. Each booth can have two people working in it, one for each lane. They had only one CM per booth, requiring the CM to help one car on one side, then one on the other, and so on. This is fine on slow days, but the cars were backed up for about half a mile leading into the garage. Took 45 min to get to the toll booth.

2. The security lines were similarly half staffed. There were only 8 open lines out of 14 or so total. We waited 20 min in this line, then another 10 for a tram.

3. The line to get into both parks was massive. This could be streamlined by having lanes for AP holders and multi day ticket holders who ALREADY have photos on file. There is no distinction in place so you have people exchanging vouchers, needing to show ID, sign tickets, get photos taken, etc. How hard is it to set up half the lanes for these people and the other half as an Express entrance for people who already went through that? Have a couple CMs out front directing people. We waited 35 min to enter DL.

4. The speed of most CS restaurants is painfully slow. Of particular note: Red Rose Tavern, Hungry Bear, Flo's V8 Cafe, and Smokejumpers Grill. You order and then wait FOREVER while no less than 5 CMs stand around behind the counter looking clueless while 1 or 2 others fill all of the orders. There HAS to be a more efficient system!

These are the kinds of things that will drive people away. Inefficiency is a huge problem at DL. Literally none of my frustrations on crowded days have anything to do with other guests. It's just this kind of stupid stuff that pisses me off.

 

[midnight star]

I think the AP's are actually still a good deal for those who live close enough that they don't need to book a hotel because those people both have lower expenses per trip (gas, airfare, hotel) and more opportunities to use their passes on a whim. I can't count the number of times I've thought "if I knew two months ago this weekend would be free I could have planned a trip!"

This is what I’ve always thought. I grew up in NV and had friends that would have passes with their families. Although they would make somewhat frequent trips to Anaheim, wondered how much they were truly saving given that they had to factor in gas, hotels, and food.

 

[halfmonkey]

The problem is that Disney is not managing the crowds well. They are being inefficient in several key areas and that adds to the frustration guests experience.

I went to the parks yesterday with my kids who had a day off school. From our garage to the M&F parking structure is a 15 min trip. We left home at 8:00am. We did not walk through the gates at DL until 10:05am. That is ridiculous. Here are some reasons for that:

1. The parking garage toll booths were only staffed at 50%. Each booth can have two people working in it, one for each lane. They had only one CM per booth, requiring the CM to help one car on one side, then one on the other, and so on. This is fine on slow days, but the cars were backed up for about half a mile leading into the garage. Took 45 min to get to the toll booth.

2. The security lines were similarly half staffed. There were only 8 open lines out of 14 or so total. We waited 20 min in this line, then another 10 for a tram.

3. The line to get into both parks was massive. This could be streamlined by having lanes for AP holders and multi day ticket holders who ALREADY have photos on file. There is no distinction in place so you have people exchanging vouchers, needing to show ID, sign tickets, get photos taken, etc. How hard is it to set up half the lanes for these people and the other half as an Express entrance for people who already went through that? Have a couple CMs out front directing people. We waited 35 min to enter DL.

4. The speed of most CS restaurants is painfully slow. Of particular note: Red Rose Tavern, Hungry Bear, Flo's V8 Cafe, and Smokejumpers Grill. You order and then wait FOREVER while no less than 5 CMs stand around behind the counter looking clueless while 1 or 2 others fill all of the orders. There HAS to be a more efficient system!

These are the kinds of things that will drive people away. Inefficiency is a huge problem at DL. Literally none of my frustrations on crowded days have anything to do with other guests. It's just this kind of stupid stuff that pisses me off.

I understand your frustration with your points but if I may offer maybe a different perspective. So with Disney Parks being a business, Disney is in business to make money. Part of the way they make money is to manage costs. Now I certainly understand that having 5 security check points open and manned with staff is frustrating when the area and the set up actually shows the ability to man it with 10 or 15 people security check points but it's not like all 10 or 15 or even 20 check points will be bottle necked all day. So they plan with what they think works to get people through in a "reasonable" time while also managing cost because once that morning rush goes through, the 5 security check points only stretch to 5 people deep...max. Now think of this. If they did actually staff all of the security check points to max all day long, then they would definitely be sitting there twiddling their thumbs and Disney would be paying a lot of overhead for not a lot of productivity and I'm sure you can guess where they're going to pass on that cost.

Again, with all due respect, manage your expectation. Everybody and their mom just like you wants to get into the park at rope drop. If it's that important, well kindly wait in line. It's just like anything else in life. If you want that new iPhone, wait in line or pay double on eBay until supply catches up demand. If you want those comic con tickets, you need to be waiting by your computer for hours hoping you randomly get selected to buy the tickets. What I'm saying is when you want things that other people want, there will be lines and waiting and disappointment. At the end of the day, we're talking about 1st world problems. Perspective is alway good.

I started this thread to not bash on people who hate crowds or don't like how things are currently being run with the security check points or how slow service is at a restaurant or whatever else you might be complaining about. I started this thread because I'm concerned about how they might change up the AP system aside from reducing benefits and increasing costs. Again, I term that as changes to benefits. I read the official Disney statement as a complete overhaul of the system and that kind of freaks me out with 5 people in the family. Our SoCal AP is getting pretty expensive but I think we're going to have to swallow this big pill because we enjoy it and can't wait for SW:GE to open. My DD just turned 5 so she still hasn't ridden all of the rides yet because of height and because we don't think she's ready for some of them yet so it sucks to think that we might get priced out of AP before she even gets a chance to ride them with the convenience of an AP.

Oh well, business is business and they've previously said that local AP are great and all because of all of the support but in terms of revenue, we don't help much because we don't spend like out of town tourists and, well business is business so they want the tourists.

 

[lcp9]

I understand your frustration with your points but if I may offer maybe a different perspective. So with Disney Parks being a business, Disney is in business to make money. Part of the way they make money is to manage costs. Now I certainly understand that having 5 security check points open and manned with staff is frustrating when the area and the set up actually shows the ability to man it with 10 or 15 people security check points but it's not like all 10 or 15 or even 20 check points will be bottle necked all day. So they plan with what they think works to get people through in a "reasonable" time while also managing cost because once that morning rush goes through, the 5 security check points only stretch to 5 people deep...max. Now think of this. If they did actually staff all of the security check points to max all day long, then they would definitely be sitting there twiddling their thumbs and Disney would be paying a lot of overhead for not a lot of productivity and I'm sure you can guess where they're going to pass on that cost.

Again, with all due respect, manage your expectation. Everybody and their mom just like you wants to get into the park at rope drop. If it's that important, well kindly wait in line. It's just like anything else in life. If you want that new iPhone, wait in line or pay double on eBay until supply catches up demand. If you want those comic con tickets, you need to be waiting by your computer for hours hoping you randomly get selected to buy the tickets. What I'm saying is when you want things that other people want, there will be lines and waiting and disappointment. At the end of the day, we're talking about 1st world problems. Perspective is alway good.

I started this thread to not bash on people who hate crowds or don't like how things are currently being run with the security check points or how slow service is at a restaurant or whatever else you might be complaining about. I started this thread because I'm concerned about how they might change up the AP system aside from reducing benefits and increasing costs. Again, I term that as changes to benefits. I read the official Disney statement as a complete overhaul of the system and that kind of freaks me out with 5 people in the family. Our SoCal AP is getting pretty expensive but I think we're going to have to swallow this big pill because we enjoy it and can't wait for SW:GE to open. My DD just turned 5 so she still hasn't ridden all of the rides yet because of height and because we don't think she's ready for some of them yet so it sucks to think that we might get priced out of AP before she even gets a chance to ride them with the convenience of an AP.

Oh well, business is business and they've previously said that local AP are great and all because of all of the support but in terms of revenue, we don't help much because we don't spend like out of town tourists and, well business is business so they want the tourists.

Your argument is kind of interesting because you mentioned this is just like everything else in life - you have to pony up...whether it’s time in security lines, or $$$. Yet, you are afraid of being priced out of the convenience of an AP. So are you saying the experience might not be worth it to you at the regular ticket price? Because that’s exactly what people were saying earlier on the thread (due to crowds, mismanagement, inefficiency) and you disagreed saying people’s priorities are not in check.

The convenience of an AP is exactly that - the convenience to leave when crowds are unexpectedly unbearable and the convenience to come spend your afternoon in line for the one ride you care about. Somebody taking a week off of work for the vacation of a lifetime doesn’t have that convenience, so yes, IMO, AP prices should be increased and/or a cap on # of Park days to mitigate those conveniences.

 

[azdisneylover]

I think people in general just need to adjust their mentality of crowds and going to public places. It seems that people think because they're paying a lot of money that they're owed a lot less troublesome experience. Frankly, Disney doesn't owe anybody anything. It's a business and they're in the business to make money. Disney use to have months and period that were considered low crowds because quite frankly, there was a time when Disney parks weren't doing too well. Times have changed and Disney business have made acquisitions and changes to drive people back to the parks. Add in the fact that the economy is doing well and you have a receipt for disaster so of speak. If Disney wasn't a place that you didn't want to go to, well then the crowds would be low but since they've made some acquisitions and changes that people want and like, people are going to the park.

The best thing you can do for yourself is accept that the park is crowded and if you happen to be there on a day that isn't crowded, well consider yourself lucky. That's how we look at it so we don't waste our valuable family time together hissing and pissing over something that I have no control like crowds and how other people act. If I were to huff and puff over the rudeness and inconsideratness of other people, I'd be grump and pissed off all day long. I choose not to let it get to me.

Someone mentioned that they had some friends visit and was all hot and bothered with the crowds and decided they would never come back again. Frankly, I think they've got it all wrong. Their priorities, in my humble opinion, are mixed up.

Another way to look at it is this. If it wasn't crowded, that means that people are not interested in going and that means something's not right. Just look at Magic Mountain. I used to go like 20 years or so ago and they were crowded. Now they turned around a little but there was a time where they couldn't even get you to go if they gave away tickets. Certainly having gang members there didn't help but my point is, there is a reason why it's so busy and that's because Disney is doing something RIGHT and people WANT to go.

Keep up the good work Disney but let's also keep and eye for overdoing it on the pricing.

Disney does have a responsibility to the public, just like any other company out there that states one thing about their product, and then, the consumer gets something completely different. For example, we get commercials for Disneyland and Walt Disney World many times a day, every day. Each commercial, shows different families having lots of fun, skipping through parks with lower crowds around. Everyone is happy, plenty of room to walk, skip, twirl around, not a stroller parking lot in sight, all rides going on, NO WALLS up anywhere, the list goes on and on. I know how it really is, but many first timers do not. Blaming the consumer to expect the company to deliver a product close to what they promote is wrong.

 

[lcp9]

For example, we get commercials for Disneyland and Walt Disney World many times a day, every day. Each commercial, shows different families having lots of fun, skipping through parks with lower crowds around. Everyone is happy, plenty of room to walk, skip, twirl around, not a stroller parking lot in sight, all rides going on, NO WALLS up anywhere, the list goes on and on. I know how it really is, but many first timers do not. Blaming the consumer to expect the company to deliver a product close to what they promote is wrong.

YESSSSSS. How are people supposed to “manage their expectations” when they pay $$$ to get the commercial version of Disney, but instead it’s elbow to elbow people and 180 minute wait on RSR?