Paid FP options coming soon to WDW?

[atathomas]

I'm all for any ideas that allows me and my family not to waste time in line all day for the marquee attractions. I'm a fan of the FP+ setup and believe it's fair (free and resort guests get preferential treatment).

Disney has put a ton of infrastructure into the queues, I don't think it will go away. There might be some express system or virtual queues that exist I'd imagine.

I think that some attractions shouldn't have FP. Attractions like Splash, Space, RnR, ToT, etc need FP (or something of the sort) to help get people in and out.

I mean, if they wanted they could probably set up virtual queues a la Rise of the Resistance Boarding Groups. Some people seem to think that's what's going to happen whenever Tron opens at MK.

 

[lluv3971]

Saw this in Orlando Weekly;
Disney may use Coronavirus crisis to overhaul FP+
I'm a little torn. FP+ is (was) imperfect at best. Why on earth was Fastpass on EVERYTHING? It just seems like it created a situation by which those in the know could game the system. The FP tiers too. I also think it gave an unfair advantage to smaller groups, said couples rather than families of 4 or 5. Certainly singles had the leg up as DFB proved - you could get DOZENS of FP's on even the busiest days if you were flexible with your plans and didn't need to find 4 or 5 FP's at a time.

BUT...
As a family, FP+ is great, in that my wife will not ride things like Space Mountain, and it is a GREAT way for me and my kids to get a quick ride without having her wait an hour plus while I do it. That in and of itself is priceless when it comes to vacation time.

OK, so what should Disney do?
While I like, and have heard great things about DL's MaxPass, I DETEST any system that allows someone to pay for cuts - i.e. paid Fastpassses. I think MaxPass falls just a hair short of that definition, but why would anybody pay for it if you weren't getting more fastpasses (and you are by not having to run across the park to get them - a grey area IMHO)?

So I guess in my perfect world;

1. Use park reservations (coming soon thanks to Covid). Why do I want this? Because;
2. Have BG's for uber-popular rides like FoP and ROTR that you get when you make your park reservation. This is tricky because I also think you still have to give preference to on-site guests, you also want to have a system by which off-site guests and local AP's an opportunity to ride each day too. IOW - You can't give out all of the BP's at 60 days. Maybe give out 1/2, then distribute the rest with...
3. MaxPass, and only Maxpass. Include it in the cost of admission. for everyone. Don't re-introduce paper FP's and do away with reserve-in-advance FP+...except the BG's. Put Maxpass only on rides and attractions (are there any ?) that need it. Not Muppets 3-D, not the Peoplemover, etc.

See any flaws with this? Well, here's one - maybe. What about park-hoppers? I think this still works - at least better than the system we have now. If you are starting in MK, you would have no FP's in any other park anyway and ZERO expectation of getting a BG or ROTR. That wouldn't change. There would be a little lag in that now, you could get your first, second park FP+ while en route on a bus, while MaxPass would require you to actually get to the second park. That seems like a fair trade for the better system IMHO.

I also see a problem in that you are not giving enough of an incentive to the on site guests. Here's a thought; why not give EMH to on-site guests only, every morning at every park? I always thought rotating the EMH around was dumb and confusing and resulted in the EMH park being so crowded that the incentive to go to that park was nill. This would solve that problem and would spread out the on-site guests so there would still be plenty of MaxPasses for the off-site guests when they got there. That would eliminate "rope drop", but sadly I think this is going away too thanks to COVID. I REALLY like rope-drop - genuine tears on that one. If I got EMH every day though I think I'd get over it pretty quick.

Thoughts?

I LOVE the idea of EMH at every park, every day. They makes so much sense from a social distancing standpoint. And you are right - it would free up some passes for rides.

It is odd to me that Disney took away EMHs during re-opening. It seems like an easy way to spread out the crowds while still providing a "perk" to appease on-sight guests.

I suppose it all comes down to the cost of operating an extra hour+ . :-(

 

[bernina]

I LOVE the idea of EMH at every park, every day. They makes so much sense from a social distancing standpoint. And you are right - it would free up some passes for rides.

It is odd to me that Disney took away EMHs during re-opening. It seems like an easy way to spread out the crowds while still providing a "perk" to appease on-sight guests.

I suppose it all comes down to the cost of operating an extra hour+ . :-(

For initial reopening I'm not sure EMH would make sense since the new park reservation system may already be weighted for onsite guests. When they're ready to increase capacity it could make perfect sense to reintroduce and encourage folks to stay onsite.

Right now with no new reservations allowed and only DVC and Ft. Wilderness with confirmed opening dates, it's pretty clear Disney isn't looking to encourage (or even allowing) folks to stay onsite at the moment.

 

[YesterDark]

Depending on how it change crowd patterns, you're more likely going to see virtual queues than anything else. The only issue I can see is that the park will seem more crowded because less people will be standing in line.

Which in today's social distancing world, might be a good thing assuming park occupancy remains low.

 

[lluv3971]

For initial reopening I'm not sure EMH would make sense since the new park reservation system may already be weighted for onsite guests. When they're ready to increase capacity it could make perfect sense to reintroduce and encourage folks to stay onsite.

Right now with no new reservations allowed and only DVC and Ft. Wilderness with confirmed opening dates, it's pretty clear Disney isn't looking to encourage (or even allowing) folks to stay onsite at the moment.

You are absolutely right about the reservation system. There really wouldn't be a need for EMH at the start.

I wish there was another way to reduce crowds, besides making a trip to WDW seem so unappealing (based on all the experiences that are cancelled and the limited offerings that are planned at re-opening).

I feel like Disney could "dangle a carrot" by offering guests a "special offer" if they rebook for 2021. I know they did that with the free dining offer and that didn't exactly work out, but surely they could come up with something significant but realistic for travel in Jan-March of 2021.

I'm finding it hard to understand why Universal is able to offer a somewhat "normal" experience in June, and Disney seems to only be able to provide a "bare bones" experience in mid-July. I know WDW is huge and has more moving parts that UO, but geez...the way they are going about this is disheartening and not very "on brand."

 

[YesterDark]

I'm finding it hard to understand why Universal is able to offer a somewhat "normal" experience in June, and Disney seems to only be able to provide a "bare bones" experience in mid-July. I know WDW is huge and has more moving parts that UO, but geez...the way they are going about this is disheartening and not very "on brand."

Probably tells you a little something about each of the companies.

 

[tlmadden73]

I feel like Disney could "dangle a carrot" by offering guests a "special offer" if they rebook for 2021. I know they did that with the free dining offer and that didn't exactly work out, but surely they could come up with something significant but realistic for travel in Jan-March of 2021.

I'm finding it hard to understand why Universal is able to offer a somewhat "normal" experience in June, and Disney seems to only be able to provide a "bare bones" experience in mid-July. I know WDW is huge and has more moving parts that UO, but geez...the way they are going about this is disheartening and not very "on brand."

I think Disney was reluctant to open "normal" because of their deals with NBA and MLS that could potentially put several hotels totally out of commission for regular guests. That and limited capacity would mean they wouldn't need a lot of their hotels anyway.

I don't think Disney is going offer a 2021 rebooking bonus though .. because they still DO want people to come in the fall .. just not this summer apparently. I would assume they hope to run the fall at "normal" .. if not .. this company is going to just continue to bleed.

IF the FP system overhauls .. I think they should just ditch it -- the concept of reserving a ride 60 days in advance is just tough and getting too tough for the high demand rides - they were offering 60 day FPs to too many resort guests and the parks were too crowded, so standby lines for those rides were TOO long.
It did have the advantage of not having to stress ON your park day. I wouldn't want a MaxPass-like system per se (unless it did cost extra) because then I feel that would make the mornings super stressful like trying to get a Rise of the Resistance boarding group. Can't sleep in .. need to be on your phone at a certain time .. etc. UGH. No thanks.

 

[J-BOY]

I'm finding it hard to understand why Universal is able to offer a somewhat "normal" experience in June, and Disney seems to only be able to provide a "bare bones" experience in mid-July. I know WDW is huge and has more moving parts that UO, but geez...the way they are going about this is disheartening and not very "on brand."

What is Universal providing that Disney isn't? I keep hearing this getting tossed around but no one is able to come up with anything outside of their water park.

 

[ChrisM]

The reservation system is somewhat of a no-brainer. Disney has been leveraging dining and FP+ data to puzzle out attendance for staffing and hours purposes, but all that did was give them somewhat less exact data - and shift more planning burden onto guests - then an actual daily reservation system would.

From a guest perspective, planning a daily reservation isn't ideal (particularly around park hopping) but it would certainly be a heck of a lot simpler than the 180 day dining and 60 day FP+ morass we've had until now. God do I (did I?) hate that mess.

I'm expecting Genie "wishes" will largely be rolled out as an upcharge system. Sure, there will be a tier of free "wishes/suggestions" that are continuously offered but they won't be of any particularly high value. The bulk of it will be things like instant paid Fastpass or the ability to pay a fee for same day dining reservations. There is a massive potential for monetization of these things that Disney has been missing out on and this crisis has given them the perfect opportunity to completely reset the game. Disney has already leaned hard into "pay to play" and this gives them perfect cover to go all in.

Frankly, I think it would be a great move if they can structure it so stand by flows more smoothly and the FP allocation is relatively small. There's a sweet spot here that I think can make everyone happy and they should have all the data they need to make it happen.

 

[rteetz]

What is Universal providing that Disney isn't? I keep hearing this getting tossed around but no one is able to come up with anything.

Express pass I guess? That’s the only thing that remotely comes to mind.

 

[Eric Smith]

I think that some attractions shouldn't have FP. Attractions like Splash, Space, RnR, ToT, etc need FP (or something of the sort) to help get people in and out.

I mean, if they wanted they could probably set up virtual queues a la Rise of the Resistance Boarding Groups. Some people seem to think that's what's going to happen whenever Tron opens at MK.

I really hope they don't make boarding groups a permanent thing. It's ridiculous to force people to get up at the break of dawn if they want to ride a popular ride.

 

[Eric Smith]

I'm finding it hard to understand why Universal is able to offer a somewhat "normal" experience in June, and Disney seems to only be able to provide a "bare bones" experience in mid-July. I know WDW is huge and has more moving parts that UO, but geez...the way they are going about this is disheartening and not very "on brand."

Read about the opening for Universal so far. They aren't providing a "normal experience". They're doing the same things Disney is likely to do and having some issues with it (dining seems to be the biggest one).

 

[tlmadden73]

What is Universal providing that Disney isn't? I keep hearing this getting tossed around but no one is able to come up with anything outside of their water park.

I'd gather it is the "assumptions" being made on certain attractions being closed or restricted .. considering Disney isn't even open yet.

But .. ya Universal just has it easier .. with two parks (within walking distance of each other)

Has Universal closed any attractions to accommodate for social distancing? Disney hasn't really announced that .. so besides the lack of FP+ .. not sure how the two will be different.

Universal just seemed to want to rush to open . .while Disney wanted to sit back and put things in place before opening. Both strategies have their merits.

It will be interesting to see how Universal fares over the coming month -- how many people are really going to show up .. how many non-locals ..etc.

 

[lluv3971]

Read about the opening for Universal so far. They aren't providing a "normal experience". They're doing the same things Disney is likely to do and having some issues with it (dining seems to be the biggest one).

As with most things, "normal" means different things to different people. Some sites and vloggers are reporting a rather smooth and enjoyable re-opening at UO, while others are reporting more negative experiences. There are some kinks to work out, for sure, but to me, it still seems like an enjoyable trip. Others may feel differently.

 

[Eric Smith]

As with most things, "normal" means different things to different people. Some sites and vloggers are reporting a rather smooth and enjoyable re-opening at UO, while others are reporting more negative experiences. There are some kinks to work out, for sure, but to me, it still seems like an enjoyable trip. Others may feel differently.

Can you explain what you mean by "normal" then? I haven't seen anything from Universal that I expect to be much different from Disney. They're running rides at reduced capacities and are using a virtual queue system (which seems to have had some glitches). The indoor seating at quick service locations is severely limited due to distancing requirements which is causing very long waits (yullin3 said she waited an hour for Leaky Caludron). They're also requiring masks and temperature checks like Disney is. I'm not seeing some huge difference.

 

[lluv3971]

Can you explain what you mean by "normal" then? I haven't seen anything from Universal that I expect to be much different from Disney. They're running rides at reduced capacities and are using a virtual queue system (which seems to have had some glitches). The indoor seating at quick service locations is severely limited due to distancing requirements which is causing very long waits (yullin3 said she waited an hour for Leaky Caludron). They're also requiring masks and temperature checks like Disney is. I'm not seeing some huge difference.

You are right about all of those changes, so "normal" is not the correct word.

I think what I am referring to is the overall park experience. We may plan a trip to UO this summer and purchase express pass which, in theory, would allow us ride most things with minimal wait, very similar to the experience we would have had pre-covid. It's almost like a "guarantee" that we would have an enjoyable time.

That doesn't apply to everyone's trip or experience, but that was my "in my own bubble" thinking.

I apologise if I offended you. With so many things left unknown with WDW, it's easy for me to want to hang on to one sliver of hope.

 

[Jrb1979]

I think Disney was reluctant to open "normal" because of their deals with NBA and MLS that could potentially put several hotels totally out of commission for regular guests. That and limited capacity would mean they wouldn't need a lot of their hotels anyway.

I don't think Disney is going offer a 2021 rebooking bonus though .. because they still DO want people to come in the fall .. just not this summer apparently. I would assume they hope to run the fall at "normal" .. if not .. this company is going to just continue to bleed.

IF the FP system overhauls .. I think they should just ditch it -- the concept of reserving a ride 60 days in advance is just tough and getting too tough for the high demand rides - they were offering 60 day FPs to too many resort guests and the parks were too crowded, so standby lines for those rides were TOO long.
It did have the advantage of not having to stress ON your park day. I wouldn't want a MaxPass-like system per se (unless it did cost extra) because then I feel that would make the mornings super stressful like trying to get a Rise of the Resistance boarding group. Can't sleep in .. need to be on your phone at a certain time .. etc. UGH. No thanks.

Why not make it like every other theme park and just have an express pass? No booking times for queues just go in the fast pass line. Do it like Universal and make it free for guests at certain resorts and ones staying at lower resorts get a discount. For everyone else make it a cost of $80. High enough to discourage people from buying it.

 

[ChrisM]

Why not make it like every other theme park and just have an express pass? No booking times for queues just go in the fast pass line. Do it like Universal and make it free for guests at certain resorts and ones staying at lower resorts get a discount. For everyone else make it a cost of $80. High enough to discourage people from buying it.

Great point. I think it boils down to the idea that Disney has always tried to promote itself as something of an egalitarian experience, but that went out the window a long time ago. No reason to keep up the facade, in my opinion.

That would certainly be the simplest, and possibly most revenue increasing, solution. Although I think they would need to have variable pricing per day like Universal does it.

 

[Moliphino]

Why not make it like every other theme park and just have an express pass? No booking times for queues just go in the fast pass line. Do it like Universal and make it free for guests at certain resorts and ones staying at lower resorts get a discount. For everyone else make it a cost of $80. High enough to discourage people from buying it.

No thanks. I much prefer free FP+ over anything paid. And pre-booking is part of the fun.

 

[J-BOY]

No thanks. I much prefer free FP+ over anything paid. And pre-booking is part of the fun.

I've got to agree with this one. I know a lot of people don't like pre-planning their vacations, but no one says you have to. Either way, 60 days in advance is not a long time, and I feel like most bookings are before the fastpass window opens.

Personally, I very much prefer knowing that I have 3 FP already booked, and am guaranteed to get on 3 rides of my choosing (unless they go down during the day). It's much less stressful day-of for me. Even if I don't get all of the rides I want on FP+, knowing that I have most of them allows me to focus specifically on the one that I'm missing for rope drop, or before park close. Removing the 3 pre-booked FP would just lead to more anxiety about "missing out" during my actual trip, and that's a lot less enjoyable for me.

Edited to add: I don't think Disney would ever go straight for a "pay-to-win" model like Universal or Six Flags. At least, I hope they wouldn't. They still maintain some semblance of "fairness" - everyone can still book FastPasses, ADRs, etc. without paying. There are partial benefits and certainly paid alternatives like Club Level or Dining/Dessert Parties that give special access, but they're not exclusive - Club Level just gives more FastPasses and Dessert Parties just give a nicer area to shows that are already fully accessible.