No more manners

With all of this said, all the holier than thou business is frustrating because it comes from observing a snapshot of another's life. It is easy to stand back and make a pronouncement based on a ten minute ride, but without knowing all that transpired before that glimpse the observation is skewed to your own lens and is useless. I cannot help but wonder if the same people who complain about "no manners", or "cell phones are more important than family" have any real idea what they are seeing when they make their determination. I often think that they do not.
Exactly.
 
I do not expect anyone to give up their seat to me or my family. You assumed that. In fact on our trip this fall we are renting a car. Like I said in the post above my first post said I would personally feel like crap if I sat there. I also said I believe those who are able and dont give up a seat are rude because it is proper etiquette. I have made it clear that I stand for others. I do not know or care why someone didnt wait for the next bus and chose to stand but I will always give my seat to someone else in need. Its not about them being entitled its about common courtesy.

Not assuming your family in particular. Speaking in generalities, sorry that wasn't clear.
 
So? Does that make it any less rude or reckless to get on a full bus knowing there is no open seating? Nope. If you are constantly getting onto standing room only buses and relying on people to get up for you, you are just as if not more rude than those who don't stand.

Again, I do get up for others quite often. But to me the main issue is lack of care for your own family. If you keep putting them into the position of having to have strangers give up their seat for you, you are not only rude but are not treating your family very nicely. Expecting strangers to care more than you do is shameful.

I believe that this is what most of us are trying to express. There is a point in everyone's life that they need to assess their situation and make a plan. I understand that things happen, and people are placed in a situation that has them relying on someone else to step in , or in the case of a bus ride, stand up, and in all the years I have been traveling to Disney it has been my experience that most folks do. However, for those who refuse to acknowledge that they should assume responsibility for thier family, that is rude to everyone, their family member and those who they place in the awkward position of evaluating if they are able to stand.
 
A better solution for whom?

For everyone. Because if too many people can't use the busses, I think Disney will find a way to solve the problem. Maybe that will mean lower-capacity busses so everyone gets a seat, or separate busses accessible only with a GAC card, or who knows. I just personally think more traffic would mean we would all pay for it in transportation time. But that's kind of trying to predict the future, so no hard feelings if our guesses are different.

The point most of us are trying to make is that for the most part we see generosity in terms of seating arrangement on a bus. I have been making multiple trips a year and can see that there are more ""manners" than one would assume from reading the first post.

I never said I didn't see generosity. In fact I said I had experienced it personally:
People did it for me lots of times - especially when I was carrying a sleeping child, so now I get to pay that forward (and teach that now-almost-grown child to do the same) because I really do think it just plain makes the world a nicer place to be.
I was just saying I thought it was a good thing whose continuation should be promoted.

However, we all have our reasons for not offering to stand if that is what we choose to do.

Which I also acknowledged:
Again, I don't look down on people who can't! I realize anyone could have a knee brace, dizzy spells, or something else I can't see, so I'm not judging you if you don't.
Honestly, I'm not judging an individual who can't help in a particular circumstance! I'm just uncomfortable with the "every man for himself" attitude as opposed to a "we're all in this together" attitude. My personal observation has been that, in crowded situations like this, the second attitude makes things run more smoothly. But we've all had different experiences, and I get that not everyone will feel the same way. I never meant to sound "holier than thou" and I apologize if I made you feel attacked.

if you are concerned that a family member will be challenged by having to stand on a bus, or will not be able to wait for the next one that comes along you have a choice: rent a car or flag a taxi.

This one does kind of set off my "well that's not fair" sense a little bit. Bus service is supposed to be included in the cost of staying on property. I come from the suburbs where most people have a car and a license, but I know that lots of people from cities don't, so they can't rent a car. And taxis add up fast. I feel like assuming people with disabilities should just take taxis is like telling them that Disney should cost them more than it costs me. It just makes me feel a little guilty.

With all of this said, all the holier than thou business is frustrating because it comes from observing a snapshot of another's life. It is easy to stand back and make a pronouncement based on a ten minute ride, but without knowing all that transpired before that glimpse the observation is skewed to your own lens and is useless. I cannot help but wonder if the same people who complain about "no manners", or "cell phones are more important than family" have any real idea what they are seeing when they make their determination. I often think that they do not.

That's a really good point. When you are observing a situation, you don't know the background. Some of the people you are observing are doing exactly the first thing that pops into your head, but some aren't. So I do think we need to promote our own ideas without saying negative things about others. - If I encourage my son to offer someone a seat, I just explain how he can help. I don't point at someone not doing it and say "Don't be like that jerk." Really, I'm not a monster! But I don't think it has to be one extreme or the other, either. I think we can find a way to encourage a general attitude of sharing seats without making it a crime not to.
 
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@PollyannaMom I dont want you to misunderstand what some of us are trying to point out. WE know that just as anyplace else, there are those folks who cannot see past their own noses, and will not care to try. WHat we are saying is that yes, Disney offers transportation as part of their service, but it is not the best option for every family, and assuming that becuase it is part of the package one purchases those who are infirm will have a priorty is a practice not well thought out. One of teh reasons that many families travel to WDW as their vacation destination of choice is that Disney is so accomadating to those with physical challenges, so it is conceivable that there will be a lot of folks on any given bus that are feeling the day at the end of the day.

I know my family and I knwo what I need to do to ensure that if the options offered by Disney are not going to be enough, I will pay for what makes our trip more comfortable. For us, staying onsite so I do not need to drive is one compromise. If I pay more, that is my issue. If I knew that a family member was nto going to do well on buses, I would cave and rent a car. It is fair because my family and anyindividual need is my issue. I could insist on using Disney transportation, but if my family member paid that price, it falls on me, and not on anyoen else on that bus.

No one is disputing that being kind to others is a wonderful practice that just makes life more lovely for all of us. WE all try to lend that hand to other people when it is possible, but I also believe that it is foolhardy to trust that someone vulnerable is going to be given priority at the end of a busy day in any park.

I do want to point out that most of my issue is not with people who are saying it costs nothing to be nice, I am still smarting from some of the observations that those who sit are selfish and that Miss Manners knows more about the peole on the buses than they knwo about themselves. I am not directing my ire at you, I am just chatting and hope you don't think otherwise.
 
For everyone. Because if too many people can't use the busses, I think Disney will find a way to solve the problem. Maybe that will mean lower-capacity busses so everyone gets a seat, or separate busses accessible only with a GAC card, or who knows. I just personally think more traffic would mean we would all pay for it in transportation time. But that's kind of trying to predict the future, so no hard feelings if our guesses are different.



I never said I didn't see generosity. In fact I said I had experienced it personally:

I was just saying I thought it was a good thing whose continuation should be promoted.



Which I also acknowledged:

Honestly, I'm not judging an individual who can't help in a particular circumstance! I'm just uncomfortable with the "every man for himself" attitude as opposed to a "we're all in this together" attitude. My personal observation has been that, in crowded situations like this, the second attitude makes things run more smoothly. But we've all had different experiences, and I get that not everyone will feel the same way. I never meant to sound "holier than thou" and I apologize if I made you feel attacked.



This one does kind of set off my "well that's not fair" sense a little bit. Bus service is supposed to be included in the cost of staying on property. I come from the suburbs where most people have a car and a license, but I know that lots of people from cities don't, so they can't rent a car. And taxis add up fast. I feel like assuming people with disabilities should just take taxis is like telling them that Disney should cost them more than it costs me. I just makes me feel a little guilty.



That's a really good point. When you are observing a situation, you don't know the background. Some of the people you are observing are doing exactly the first thing that pops into your head, but some aren't. So I do think we need to promote our own ideas without saying negative things about others. - If I encourage my son to offer someone a seat, I just explain how he can help. I don't point at someone not doing it and say "Don't be like that jerk." Really, I'm not a monster! But I don't think it has to be one extreme or the other, either. I think we can find a way to encourage a general attitude of sharing seats without making it a crime not to.
Well first the ada does not require separate transportation for the disabled and I would venture that since separate but equal accommodations has been declared unconstitutional it probably would not be legal. Never mind the practical problems - does family get to go with the person? All of them? Some of them? What if they don't want to separate?
If someone cannot stand on a line or bus, they should have a wheelchair. They even offer free one from the buses to parks and usually you can get one back but I would recommend renting one from off site since they are relatively inexpensive especially when talking about a Disney trip which is completely an optional trip it's not a medical appt or trip to the grocery store.
Disney costs different people different amounts and I say this as the mother of two children with disabilities. We do shorter days but longer trips because that is what my family needs.
If you want to get up more power to you but as someone with multiple disabled people in my family I adjust our plan for the world, I don't expect the world to adjust to us. So we will wait an extra 5-10 minutes for the next bus. They do come pretty frequently at busy times. And after a day in the park to say you cannot possibly wait another five minutes is probably disingenuous.
 
This one does kind of set off my "well that's not fair" sense a little bit. Bus service is supposed to be included in the cost of staying on property. I come from the suburbs where most people have a car and a license, but I know that lots of people from cities don't, so they can't rent a car. And taxis add up fast. I feel like assuming people with disabilities should just take taxis is like telling them that Disney should cost them more than it costs me. I just makes me feel a little guilty.
I'm not following the "lots of people from cities don't have driver's license"........that may be your experience but the vast vast vast vasty majority of people do even in living in cities. What I can def. see is if people growing up in the heart of NYC for example delay getting a driver's license but most people do end up getting one at some point. Not having a car sure I get that part. International guests might be more of a better representation depending on where they are coming from.

As for the bus service being included yes it is but it's not a required form of transportation. You would run into a lot more issues if Disney said you must use our bus transportation, you must use our boat transportation and you must use our monorail and thus you cannot bring your own car nor rent a car period-i.e. no parking on property at all. But that is not how it is. Disney provides a service that you have a choice to use. It's really a case of a person using their own best judgment regarding their own situation utilizing the resources the best way that fits them. That's not intented to not be fair nor make anyone feel guilty.
 


I do want to point out that most of my issue is not with people who are saying it costs nothing to be nice, I am still smarting from some of the observations that those who sit are selfish and that Miss Manners knows more about the people on the buses than they know about themselves. I am not directing my ire at you, I am just chatting and hope you don't think otherwise.

Thanks for saying that! Since you quoted me, I was afraid I somehow came off as a judgy "Miss Manners" and I really didn't mean to.

No one is disputing that being kind to others is a wonderful practice that just makes life more lovely for all of us.

Honestly, I was kind of feeling exactly like that. I was getting the impression (again, not from any one specific person) that I, and others who said similar things, were considered naïve and silly for believing it. It's nice to know more people do.
 
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My husband and older son will freely offer their seats to anyone that looks like they need it more than they do (men, women, kids...). My younger son needs prodding, still. We will get there.

However, as a woman, I will not take a seat when offered. I am just as able to stand as the person who offered it to me :) So, it doesn't bug me when not offered, but I will always hold my kids to the expectation that they offer.
 
Yes I assume those people would need it more than my able body. And I am not judging anyone who needs to sit. We all get it. I am judging the people who simply don't feel like getting up cause they are tired. You know the ones spending thousands so they should get to sit.Yeah they have every right to not give their seat to someone else but I have every right to think they are a tool.

Obviously if on the bus you can't tell so just got to roll but on a full bus I am betting not every single person seated needs to sit due to medical condition. I have been that mom standing with her kid who is asleep and it sucks and I never complained. I have also been the person to give up my seat numerous times to a mother just like me who were relieved! Nobody has to give up their seat. Nobody has to be nice and compassionate. But maybe that whats so wrong with this world.

LOL. sorry but someone being tired and not wanting to get up is a perfectly valid reason for not getting up and offering their seat to someone else. It has nothing to do with how much money one spends, what an odd comment.
If I'm walking all day in the park and I want a seat, I'll wait for the next bus if the first one is full. And yes I do expect any able minded person to be able to make that decision for themselves, whether they paid 1K or 10K for their vacation. They have a choice, if they choose to get on a full bus without a seat, then I'm going to assume they are OK with standing.
That darn personal responsibility thing. Maybe if more people practiced THAT, the world would be a much better place.
 
Men and women were created equal and we live in the 21st century I hate hate hate this attitude that men give seats to women etc.

I am a women I am just as capable as a man of standing on a bus, of paying for dinner, of opening doors, bringing home the bacon, paying taxes, working in offshore oil and gas....

Seats on buses should be reserved for the weaker, young children, the disabled, the elderly, anyone who may be feeling unwell women do not fit in this group.

Frankly I find this standing to let women sit insulting. I am just as strong as any man.

I have given up my seat before for a young boy whose father yelled at him he couldn't sit while a lady stood. Ridiculous.
 
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Lots of different opinions on this already so I figured I would add one more. I have a fear (it very well may be an irrational one) that someday, someone will be leaning on the doors while standing and they will malfunction and open in the event the driver makes a hard left and a wall of people all lose their balance at the same time. I know this probably sounds silly but I never let my kids stand next to the doors on a crowded bus for fear they could fall out should the door malfunction and open unexpectedly (My DW however, is welcome to stand next to the doors any time she wants!......kidding!, or am I? LOL)

I will also offer to switch places with any parents/family who's kids are standing next to the doors. This is the only "bus etiquette" that I can say with 100% certainty that I practice 100% of the time.

IIRC, the doors open inward which makes this even more unlikely to ever actually happen and like I mentioned above, this is probably an irrational fear. But it's one that I can't seem to shake so I just roll with it.

Before anyone asks why I only offer to those with children rather than all ages of people that might be at a higher risk of losing their balance or leaning on a door my only defense is, it's MY irrational fear, and therefore I get to choose the qualifying factors for the recipients of my offer. LOL.
 

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