New Monorail Fleet Ordered?

[JaxDad]

I am impressed with the level of technical knowledge and expertise found in many of the posts in the thread. Disney should consult this thread on what to do!

Same here! And it is not always safe to assume that the engineers have thought through everything (or have coordinated everything with management). There were some stories very recently of billion+ dollar train orders in Australia and Europe that ended up too big for existing tunnels and stations.

 

[rg35]

Modifying the track and stations to take an off the shelf model would be massive.

You'd have to pull the entire current fleet out of service, make the necessary modifications, and then take delivery of a new fleet, go through acceptance testing, etc.

It doesn't seem feasible. I have to agree with everyone saying whatever WDW contracts for will be a custom build for the current beam system.

 

[RRB]

Modifying the track and stations to take an off the shelf model would be massive.

You'd have to pull the entire current fleet out of service, make the necessary modifications, and then take delivery of a new fleet, go through acceptance testing, etc.

It doesn't seem feasible. I have to agree with everyone saying whatever WDW contracts for will be a custom build for the current beam system.

Agree. DL has the older beam style that is smaller than WDW's and has indentations on each side. How did they upgrade their trains?

 

[jknezek]

Agree. DL has the older beam style that is smaller than WDW's and has indentations on each side. How did they upgrade their trains?

They refurbished the Mark V running gear and put new cabs on top. Mechanically the Mark VII is really the Mark V. They were done one at a time and each took about 4 months

 

[pkrieger2287]

BUT.... Is it still going to tell me: "Please Stand Clear of the Doors. Por favor manténganse alejado de las puertas."

This is all that truly matters...

 

[umichigan10]

BUT.... Is it still going to tell me: "Please Stand Clear of the Doors. Por favor manténganse alejado de las puertas."

This is all that truly matters...

And that the doors stay closed after they’ve been stood clear of

 

[Buckeye218]

And that the doors stay closed after they’ve been stood clear of

 

[joelkfla]

We don't know the manufacturing practice of these companies. It is quite possible (and may be quicker)for them to build all the chassis and then install all the bodies and then install all the seating and then do all the fishing work rather than, build a chasis, build a body, install seats, finish, repeat (13 times). If thus is true then we might very well see an entire fleet delivered in mass.

That's not how trains are manufactured. They're generally delivered one or 2 at a time. Disney would also want to have one train ASAP for field testing, to uncover any design or fabrication problems.

BTW, Bombardier is notorious for failing to meet delivery commitments, most recently on Toronto's new streetcars.

 

[intertile]

It could be a minimum of 3 years from order date to the delivery of the first train...possibly 4 given bombardiers track record and the need/Disney desire for customization...then you would see a train or 2 every year there after.

 

[beer dave]

It could be a minimum of 3 years from order date to the delivery of the first train...possibly 4 given bombardiers track record and the need/Disney desire for customization...then you would see a train or 2 every year there after.

Problems with this would be the changes they would need to make to the beam and electrical system to accommodate the new trains....Unles they run a new E rail in a location that doesn't interfere with the existing trains...... or more likely adapt the new trains to the current system... which doesn't make alot of sense. I know it was done in DL.... doesn't mean it is the best choice.

 

[jknezek]

Problems with this would be the changes they would need to make to the beam and electrical system to accommodate the new trains....Unles they run a new E rail in a location that doesn't interfere with the existing trains...... or more likely adapt the new trains to the current system... which doesn't make alot of sense. I know it was done in DL.... doesn't mean it is the best choice.

I think adapting trains to the current system is the ONLY way to go. WDW cannot have the iconic monorail down for the months at a time required to rework the beams and it hardly makes sense. Custom trains are a one off expense that happens every 20 or 30 years. If you redo the beams now, to run say Bombardiers' 300s, there is no guarantee that will be the dominant system in 20 or 30 years when you need to replace the trains again. That's the problem now. Train providers keep changing the infrastructure needed to use the modern cars. It's idiotic and part of the reason why there is no real, mass transit adoption of monorails. Train tracks are standardized. Buses are standardized for roads. Planes are essentially standardized for airports (and we all see how poorly Airbus' monster jet has sold since it can't land at many airports). Monorails need to do the same thing if they want any chance at being more than a novelty system.

WDW's only reasonable choice is to buy trains with retrofit running gear for their beams. The current system can keep running while the new trains are built, with each new train that comes in they can cannibalize another old one for the parts to keep them running until the fleet is replaced. The beams and infrastructure expense remains low and the trains should last a few decades. It makes no sense to do otherwise without any kind of promise that what they upgrade to will be the standard going forward.

You upgrade one or the other. Not both. Not unless upgrading both is guaranteed to save you money going forward. And with 20+ year horizons, I don't think Disney execs are going to double, triple, etc. down on expense now with no idea if it pays off in 20 years when you are looking for new trains again.

 

[OKW Lover]

So...who wants to buy an old monorail car for their back yard?

 

[HuskieJohn]

How many trains to they currently have?
How many run on the resort line at 1 time?
How many run on the TTC-MK line at 1 time?
How many run on the TTC-EPCOT line at 1 time?

I am halfway expecting Disney will try to cheap out and have only the two MK lines upgraded (along with any station/line modifications) and keep the old trains to the Epcot line then cannibalize the parts from the other old trains to make one or two of the best possible trains.

Modifying the Epcot line for more weight would be a lot more expensive than just modifying the two MK lines.

 

[rteetz]

How many trains to they currently have?
How many run on the resort line at 1 time?
How many run on the TTC-MK line at 1 time?
How many run on the TTC-EPCOT line at 1 time?

I am halfway expecting Disney will try to cheap out and have only the two MK lines upgraded (along with any station/line modifications) and keep the old trains to the Epcot line then cannibalize the parts from the other old trains to make one or two of the best possible trains.

Modifying the Epcot line for more weight would be a lot more expensive than just modifying the two MK lines.

12 trains currently.
I think they have as many as 10-11 running on the system overall at one time.
Sometimes it may be a bit less than that. I don’t think they ever have all 12 running.

 

[umichigan10]

12 trains currently.
I think they have as many as 10-11 running on the system overall at one time.
Sometimes it may be a bit less than that. I don’t think they ever have all 12 running.

I think the express and Epcot usually have 2 each at one time and the resort usually has 2-3. But that’s just me spitballing the number of stations and such

 

[jknezek]

How many trains to they currently have?
How many run on the resort line at 1 time?
How many run on the TTC-MK line at 1 time?
How many run on the TTC-EPCOT line at 1 time?

I am halfway expecting Disney will try to cheap out and have only the two MK lines upgraded (along with any station/line modifications) and keep the old trains to the Epcot line then cannibalize the parts from the other old trains to make one or two of the best possible trains.

Modifying the Epcot line for more weight would be a lot more expensive than just modifying the two MK lines.

There are 12 trains currently, down from 14 following the accident in 2009. Multiple trains run on the Resort and EPCOT lines at a time. While it is rare to have all 12 trains currently operating, I know I have seen 3 at a time on the resort line alone. I know at least 4 can run at a time on the EPCOT line as it is larger and I have passed two going in one direction and just missed one of a different color that wasn't one we passed. As for the express loop, I know I have seen at least 2 trains at a time on that loop. So I have personally seen the possibility for 9 to run at a time, though the times I remember seeing them are not all at the same time, obviously.

 

[joelkfla]

I think the express and Epcot usually have 2 each at one time and the resort usually has 2-3. But that’s just me spitballing the number of stations and such

You're right with 2-3 on Epcot, but low on the others. I don't think I've ever seen less than 3 on Express. The Resort loop takes about 20 minutes to complete, and the trains run about 5 minutes apart, so that would take 4 trains, or at least 3 for a 7-minute headway.

 

[jknezek]

The MAPO system (the automation they installed) divides the track into block lengths. The system works by ensuring that no trains are within 2 blocks of a previous train. If we knew the block length, you would know the theoretical maximum for the number of trains on the track. However, despite being a pretty big monorail nerd, you should see the setup I currently have in my basement using Disney's overpriced, cheap plastic toys, I have never found the block length definition for Disney's MAPO.

 

[joelkfla]

There are 12 trains currently, down from 14 following the accident in 2009. Multiple trains run on the Resort and EPCOT lines at a time. While it is rare to have all 12 trains currently operating, I know I have seen 3 at a time on the resort line alone. I know at least 4 can run at a time on the EPCOT line as it is larger and I have passed two going in one direction and just missed one of a different color that wasn't one we passed. As for the express loop, I know I have seen at least 2 trains at a time on that loop. So I have personally seen the possibility for 9 to run at a time, though the times I remember seeing them are not all at the same time, obviously.

I thought both trains were rebuilt after the accident. First the good ends from each of the 2 were merged into a train, and then salvageable parts from the damaged ends were combined with new fabrication to create an entirely new train, which took several years to complete.

 

[joelkfla]

The MAPO system (the automation they installed) divides the track into block lengths. The system works by ensuring that no trains are within 2 blocks of a previous train. If we knew the block length, you would know the theoretical maximum for the number of trains on the track. However, despite being a pretty big monorail nerd, you should see the setup I currently have in my basement using Disney's cheap, overpriced, plastic toys, I have never found the block length definition for Disney's MAPO.

MAPO is not the new automation, it's the signaling system that has been in use all along. I believe it's a fixed block system (blocks don't move), so the block length can be different on different sections of the beam. I don't know whether the recent upgrade included a moving block system, where the blocks are based on distance from a preceding train as opposed to being tied to beam sections.