New Category at The Fort

Just got off the phone making ressies for fall 2020 and learned the new "premium Meadows" loops take effect Jan 2020. The loops effected I was told will be 600,700,800,9001000,and 1400. That takes in most of old good premiums. Fall 2020 is really packed!!.

I’m waiting on the 499 day mark to make reservations for November 2020! Yeah that’s a lot of loops for the more expensive category.
 
I'm in full agreement with Bama Ed. I love my Disney but constant and steady price increases are driving me towards other vacation options. I can take a 7 day non Disney cruise with 2 adults and 1 child for about the same price as 4 or 5 days at Disney World. We have reservations in October at the Fort but I am thinking this may be our one and done Fort Wilderness trip.
 
I don’t have historical price info, but I’m guessing that when some of you first started going, there were people that were ending their own Disney “era” due to increased costs.
30 years ago my family of 4 had resident annual passes for approx $800 total. Back then, a sudden 25% price increase would have been $50 each ticket. Today that’s not bad but then it would have been enough to turn some people off, just like this current increase is doing.
Like I said earlier, we’ll still go while the kids are young. But maybe in 10 years or less, after watching prices steadily climb, we might hit our breaking point and be done. But there will be other families with little ones lining up to take our place with multiple visits a year, annual passes, DVC etc.
Disney will never stop trying to squeeze more juice out of the proverbial lemon. The difference is that it’ll never dry up for them, there will always be people willing to pay, whatever the cost. They aren’t interested in our loyalty, because there’s how many babies born every minute of every day?
 


I don’t have historical price info, but I’m guessing that when some of you first started going, there were people that were ending their own Disney “era” due to increased costs.

True of course but you're not considering the question of magnitude and its compound effect.

Here is some historical data (I'm a numbers guy):

One Day Ticket
=============
In 2000: $46 plus tax
That 2000 price in 2019 with inflation: $70
Real 2019 Price: $109-159

4-Day Park Hopper Ticket (same parks we have now)
====================================
In 2000: $176 plus tax
That 2000 price in 2019 with inflation: $268
Real 2019 Price: $480-610

Fort Wilderness Most Expensive Campsite at Christmas
=====================================
In 2009: $116 plus tax (Premium)
That 2009 price in 2019 with inflation: $140
Real 2020 Price: $220 Premium Meadow (was plain Premium in 2009).

Prices have risen much quickly over the last decade or two far outpacing inflation and for sure outpacing real (after inflation) wage growth. At the same time Disney has been giving us less magic and worse customer service. And if you compound those big price increases year after year, you approach where we are now.

Disney used to enjoy a sterling reputation for its customer service and a premium brand for its products. It's been accelerating downhill (referred to in Disney-speak as "declining by degrees") and is trending toward the likes of Comcast and dear departed Enron.

I'm committed to 2020 but the recent actions are leaving a bad taste in my mouth. Heck in 2022 I might go some place cheaper like London again. :rolleyes:

Bama Ed

PS - and yes Teamubr, 60% of the old Premium campsites are now Premium Meadow. It's easier to say what loops ARENT'T PM as to say what loops are. Guess our DISMeet will end up in 400, 500, 1100, 1200, or 1300 on the Premium side.
 
Last edited:
We will still go to Disney as my son is only 3 and we have already been 2 times and the October trip will be our 3rd. I'm just not thinking that we need to go once a year anymore. Thinking longer stays but every 2 or 3 years.
 
PS - and yes Teamubr, 60% of the old Premium campsites are now Premium Meadow. It's easier to say what loops ARENT'T PM as to say what loops are. Guess our DISMeet will end up in 400, 500, 1100, 1200, or 1300 on the Premium side.
I figured we would be in 1100-1300 for the DIS meet. They are the closest to the Full loops. I've never been up at that end of the Fort. It will be a nice change.

j
 


Just got off the phone making ressies for fall 2020 and learned the new "premium Meadows" loops take effect Jan 2020. The loops effected I was told will be 600,700,800,9001000,and 1400. That takes in most of old good premiums.
WOW-can see that having a huge impact on availability of Full Hook Up Sites. Some Campers may find they can still afford The Fort if they set the bar a bit lower and don't need that longer concrete pad or desirable Meadow access. The trickle down effect will be interesting to watch.
 
True of course but you're not considering the question of magnitude and its compound effect.

Here is some historical data (I'm a numbers guy):

One Day Ticket
=============
In 2000: $46 plus tax
That 2000 price in 2019 with inflation: $70
Real 2019 Price: $109-159

4-Day Park Hopper Ticket (same parks we have now)
====================================
In 2000: $176 plus tax
That 2000 price in 2019 with inflation: $268
Real 2019 Price: $480-610

Fort Wilderness Most Expensive Campsite at Christmas
=====================================
In 2009: $116 plus tax (Premium)
That 2009 price in 2019 with inflation: $140
Real 2020 Price: $220 Premium Meadow (was plain Premium in 2009).

Prices have risen much quickly over the last decade or two far outpacing inflation and for sure outpacing real (after inflation) wage growth. At the same time Disney has been giving us less magic and worse customer service. And if you compound those big price increases year after year, you approach where we are now.

Disney used to enjoy a sterling reputation for its customer service and a premium brand for its products. It's been accelerating downhill (referred to in Disney-speak as "declining by degrees") and is trending toward the likes of Comcast and dear departed Enron.

I'm committed to 2020 but the recent actions are leaving a bad taste in my mouth. Heck in 2022 I might go some place cheaper like London again. :rolleyes:

Bama Ed

PS - and yes Teamubr, 60% of the old Premium campsites are now Premium Meadow. It's easier to say what loops ARENT'T PM as to say what loops are. Guess our DISMeet will end up in 400, 500, 1100, 1200, or 1300 on the Premium side.

I 100% agree with your comments, and appreciate the numbers. I feel like a lot of things have outpaced inflation, not just Disney, but I don't have stats or numbers to back that up. Cable/internet, cell phone plans, even fast food, are some that come to mind. So to combat that there are others options. We cut cable 7-8 years ago, long before streaming was as mainstream as it is now. We share a phone plan with my parents to cut costs. We try not to eat out all that often, but I will never give up Chick Fil A ; ) The issue with Disney for us is that there isn't anything out there quite like it, especially for small kids. It's basically an irreplaceable experience, for them and us. And we could do it less often. But we have the means so we are supporting the monster it has become so to speak.

And I'll add on to your comments about the customer service and experience. I see it too. Just last September I took notice of many cast members that were clearly not enjoying their jobs. On the other side of that coin, I was 28 weeks pregnant with my 3rd, and my bump was already very large. I am not one for attention, but I got a lot of it from everyone: security, food service, cast members. And everyone was so kind and said such nice things. I was given free ice cream and extra attention was paid to me getting on and off rides and buses. I can't say the same for other guests during the trip. I was almost forced to stand on a bus until a woman gave me her seat, meanwhile tons of teen boys and men just sat watching. I even had a guy push me out of the way at a quick service while I was waiting to get water.

OK I know I got way off topic here, this is a post about the new loops! But the point I think I'm trying to make about customer service is that it seems to be a symptom of society as a whole. Manners are not nearly as important as they used to be, and it's frustrating. Can Disney do better? Of course, and they should. But they are hiring thousands of young kids who are so plugged in and connected, which makes them more disconnected from people. Everywhere you look, people's faces are buried in their phones, myself included. I mentioned Chick Fil A earlier. Their customer service is incredible. It's honestly why we keep going back. I don't agree with their politics, but they are doing something right with their employees and training, and other companies need to figure it out.
 
The issue with Disney for us is that there isn't anything out there quite like it, especially for small kids. It's basically an irreplaceable experience, for them and us. And we could do it less often. But we have the means so we are supporting the monster it has become so to speak.

We also have the means and will continue to go but just not as often.
Thinking about it the last 2 or 3 days had me wondering if they are trying to become an exclusive theme park. They are building DVC's at a lightning pace. Making you almost have to buy an annual pass that they just raised the prices on. Changing the name of regular sites and then raising the price. Will the Fort one day become a DVC, it's possible.
 
Last edited:
We also have the means and will continue to go but just not as often.
Thinking about it the last 2 or 3 days had me wondering if they are trying to become an exclusive theme park. They are building DVC's at a lightning pace. Making you almost have to buy an pass that they just raised the prices on. Changing the name of regular sites and then raising the price. Will the Fort one day become a DVC, it's possible.

We think alike, I spent a lot of time researching and learning about the DVC's the last few days. I just posted on one of the threads about the AP price increase. We actually bought our used travel trailer a few months ago, mainly for Disney and beach trips. We decided this made it more affordable for us to go multiple times a year. I have 3 trips booked between 2019-2020, and I am estimating we'll spend between $7,500-$8,500 total for our family of 5 (1 infant so only 4 passes needed). One resort stay with tickets would approach that number easily.

Anyway, I am still not able to do the math for DVC and feel like we would come out better than staying at the Fort. My understanding is that it's really only worth it if you stay in deluxe accommodations each trip. And most people that have DVC commented that, while they love it, DVC has definitely encouraged them to take more trips and spend more.

But maybe I'm looking at it all wrong. 🤷‍♀️
 
I am still not able to do the math for DVC and feel like we would come out better than staying at the Fort. And most people that have DVC commented that, while they love it, DVC has definitely encouraged them to take more trips and spend more.
I think you are looking at it exactly right. Disney has figured that out. Which is why they keep building DVC. Huge cash flow up front with annual money coming in. Reduce the service (no daily Mousekeeping), cut costs and increase per head spending.

I'm with you on making the math work. The way we travel and go to WDW, it doesn't make sense, even after factoring in the resale. Ten years ago, with more perks and better per point pricing, it was a better deal, but I wasn't in a position to buy then.

As for the campsite rates. I think this is basic supply and demand. Disney has a tremendous amount of guest data and some pretty good analysts. I'm sure they know exactly what the demand is and calculate the highest rate they feel won't effect occupancy and per guest spending. There has been a huge bump in RV owners since the economy tanked in 2008. Disney is simply taking advantage of that pent up demand.

Now, if we could just get the math to work out for adding more sites without impacting occupancy (or revenue). Obviously we aren't there yet or we would see bulldozers.

j
 
I think you are looking at it exactly right. Disney has figured that out. Which is why they keep building DVC. Huge cash flow up front with annual money coming in. Reduce the service (no daily Mousekeeping), cut costs and increase per head spending.

I'm with you on making the math work. The way we travel and go to WDW, it doesn't make sense, even after factoring in the resale. Ten years ago, with more perks and better per point pricing, it was a better deal, but I wasn't in a position to buy then.

As for the campsite rates. I think this is basic supply and demand. Disney has a tremendous amount of guest data and some pretty good analysts. I'm sure they know exactly what the demand is and calculate the highest rate they feel won't effect occupancy and per guest spending. There has been a huge bump in RV owners since the economy tanked in 2008. Disney is simply taking advantage of that pent up demand.

Now, if we could just get the math to work out for adding more sites without impacting occupancy (or revenue). Obviously we aren't there yet or we would see bulldozers.

j

That's what makes it confusing for me. The influx and push towards DVC, which means they want to encourage people to spend more, to make more trips. And then they increase AP's, most drastically for out of state residents, which seems to be discouraging people from renewing & visiting multiple times a year. So pushing DVC feels a little elitist. Most people can't afford to pay that kind of upfront cost, and unlike most other time shares, there's the massive additional cost of tickets that don't even factor in.

We have to split our drive up with the trailer, and are stopping at a Florida State Park about halfway. The overnight rate is $26. The rates that Disney charges for campsites is insanely high. Yes it saves us some money, but there are still a few All Star resorts that are about the same cost. And if you are willing to stay that far out (we did POP in September and those were some long bus rides, especially to MK) you can plan your trip to coincide with the free dining offers. I'm sure once those resorts are totally refurbed they will raise the price simnifically like they did with POP. But seeing Bama Ed's post about a $220 rate for Premium Meadow makes my stomach turn. If they are trying to make the campsites about as expensive as the hotels, it takes away some of the appeal for us. We aren't using a travel trailer b/c we love to camp. Honestly we've never done it. We just saw it as a way to get more travel time in with our kids, to the places we like to go, at a more affordable rate.
 
The overnight rate is $26. The rates that Disney charges for campsites is insanely high. Yes it saves us some money, but there are still a few All Star resorts that are about the same cost.
... We aren't using a travel trailer b/c we love to camp. We just saw it as a way to get more travel time in with our kids, to the places we like to go, at a more affordable rate.
Jolynne,

I have done the math for years on taking the camper (1000 miles each way) and staying at the Fort vs driving a car down and staying at a Value. It is just about the same money when you factor the difference in fuel. The advantage is having your own food and kitchen with the camper. I figure eating at the camper half the meals (most breakfasts and a few dinners) saves several hundred dollars.

We also started taking the camper to the Fort to save money and make the trips more affordable, but also love camping. We quickly discovered the unique atmosphere at the Fort and prefer staying there, even if it costs more than a Value.

j
 
I’m hoping we enjoy it as much as you and others do! There’s also something to be said for sleeping in our own beds/space. We’ve had way too many gross hotel situations in the past couple of years, things that anyone be disgusted by.
 
There’s also something to be said for sleeping in our own beds/space.
I'm probably one of the few that doesn't care about where I sleep. I raced around the country for a long time and travel for work quite a bit. I have slept in so many different places, none of it bothered me. Well, my first experience in a "Sleep Number" bed in a little hotel in Brainerd, MN and the couch/sectional I slept on for 3 weeks in Ukraine. Neither of those were that great. Give me a pillow and a blanket and I'm good. :-)

j
 
I'm probably one of the few that doesn't care about where I sleep. I raced around the country for a long time and travel for work quite a bit. I have slept in so many different places, none of it bothered me. Well, my first experience in a "Sleep Number" bed in a little hotel in Brainerd, MN and the couch/sectional I slept on for 3 weeks in Ukraine. Neither of those were that great. Give me a pillow and a blanket and I'm good. :-)

j

See I used to be the same way. I traveled for work and was gone half the month, I never cared.
But then I had kids, and things that never bothered me before really started to.
It doesn’t help that we had two different instances of blood stained sheets in a 3 month period. 😬

ETA these were not Disney hotel stays
 
Last edited:
I figured we would be in 1100-1300 for the DIS meet. They are the closest to the Full loops. I've never been up at that end of the Fort. It will be a nice change.

j

Agree with this, is actually where I was expecting too.

We don't go back until 2020, we are planning on taking our first visits to Universal during that trip, possibly back to Seaworld again. This is because after that visit the expense is getting too much and we will likely be 2-3 years before we return. I'm planning on taking that same money and heading west to some amazing views and natural theme parks. Disney has priced it too high for regular trips and I'm so massively feeling I'm getting less for more of my money.
 
Agree with this, is actually where I was expecting too.

We don't go back until 2020, we are planning on taking our first visits to Universal during that trip, possibly back to Seaworld again. This is because after that visit the expense is getting too much and we will likely be 2-3 years before we return. I'm planning on taking that same money and heading west to some amazing views and natural theme parks. Disney has priced it too high for regular trips and I'm so massively feeling I'm getting less for more of my money.
I feel the same. Just renewed DH's Universal Seasonal Pass, but did NOT purchase him a Disney AP. Debating whether or not we should. I probably will, but it may change the planning for the following year.
 

GET A DISNEY VACATION QUOTE

Dreams Unlimited Travel is committed to providing you with the very best vacation planning experience possible. Our Vacation Planners are experts and will share their honest advice to help you have a magical vacation.

Let us help you with your next Disney Vacation!





Top