Need advice from Scooter owners UPDATE p. 2

[anonymousegirl]

Hi. I am looking for advice re: a new scooter for my elderly mom. She is in an apartment and I think the single front wheel would have more maneuverability but she is worried they are more unstable than the four wheeled scooters. Any truth to that? She has never driven one so we are heading over to a mobility store this weekend to try some. Anything else I should be aware of when buying new? I know this isn't Disney related, so if anyone has a idea of where I can go for advice, I'd appreciate it. Thanks!

 

[tobikaye]

My sister was originally looking at 4 wheel scooters, but chose a 3 wheel for the better turning radius. She has not had any issues with it tipping even on tight turns. I can only think of one close call with almost tipping over and it was user error that would have been an issue with a 4 wheel as well. She did not make sure the wheels were in the right spot going down a curb cutout from a sidewalk.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Where are you thinking of buying it? Any local company that sells ECVs should be willing to let her test drive, at least inside the showroom.

Or...you could take her to Orlando (with or without a WDW visit ) and buy a used one from Gold.

 

[anonymousegirl]

Where are you thinking of buying it? Any local company that sells ECVs should be willing to let her test drive, at least inside the showroom.

Or...you could take her to Orlando (with or without a WDW visit ) and buy a used one from Gold.

She' isn't a Disney fan (took me to Disneyland once, though). We live in San Francisco Bay Area so it is a bit far to get to Gold's. We are going to test drive this weekend. I was just wondering if there might be something important I overlook, or don't ask about, since I do use a scooter except very occasionally at WDW.

 

[mamabunny]

She' isn't a Disney fan (took me to Disneyland once, though). We live in San Francisco Bay Area so it is a bit far to get to Gold's. We are going to test drive this weekend. I was just wondering if there might be something important I overlook, or don't ask about, since I do use a scooter except very occasionally at WDW.

Aw... come on! What's 3000 or so miles out of your way? LOL

OK, seriously. Here's some of the things I would keep in mind for your Mom:

(All of this presumes there is an elevator to get her to the floor she lives on, and no steps that she has to deal with.)

- Measure any doors she will pass through at her home and the apartment building, so that you know for sure if the scooter will fit. Make sure that the elevator doors will stay open long enough for her to either back out, or pull out. If the elevator in her building is not very large, she will probably have to learn how to back in - and do so quickly enough that the doors won't try to close on her. That way, she can drive straight out when she gets to her floor. If she can't back in to the elevator going in... she will have to be able to back out coming out, and again, do so before the doors auto-close.

- Make sure that you (or someone in her world) can either lift the scooter assembled, or at least are able to lift the heaviest portion of it if it is disassembled for transport in a passenger car.

- Make sure that the seat is comfortable for her, and that she can reach the controls when seated properly. Sitting towards the front edge of the seat to reach the controls might cause fatigue, and she won't use it if it isn't easy and comfortable to sit in and use. Watch as she gets on and off the scooter for possible trip hazards (for example: can she lift her feet high enough?) and make sure that she can get on and off safely without assistance if that is going to be necessary.

Similarly, if she has arthritis in her hands, make sure the throttle control will be comfortable for her to use for extended periods of time. If there are hand-operated brakes (not likely, but they do appear on some ultra-lightweights), make sure her hands are strong enough to stop the weight of her + the scooter.

- Find out the cost of replacement batteries up front. Some day your Mom will be done using the scooter, and the next user may need to swap out the batteries for new ones. If the scooter is cheap, but the batteries cost a fortune to replace, that might be a checkmark in the "con" column for sure.

- Worry less about accessories and "extras" (like USB chargers and fans, etc.) and more about safety features like solid tires (that can't go flat) or headlights for visibility. Don't load it down with lots of saddlebags, baskets, and other stuff that can cause problems with (1) theft, (2) stability or (3) portability. Think of a daily use ECV vs a rental like a draft horse vs a race horse. Your draft horse may not be as exciting or glamorous, but it is going to pull the wagon every day, loaded or not, day in and day out as long as you care for it. The race horse is beautiful and exciting, but it's not going to do the daily work of the draft horse for you. (poor analogy but it's late, so please forgive me LOL)

- Make sure you get ANY warranty or guarantee promised to you in writing. If a salesperson says to you that the battery won't need to be changed for 5 years, get it in writing, on company letterhead, or better yet as part of the sales contract.

- Take a moment - either in the store, or at home after you make a "let's just see what's out there" visit - and go to places like MonsterScooterParts.com to see if they carry replacement parts for that brand of scooter, and more importantly, *what* they have for any model you are considering. A big "red flag" might be if the manufacturer of the scooter isn't listed there. (Sadly, there are all kinds of rip-off/knock-off mobility devices flooding the US now, because Amazon has made it possible to drop ship these into the US; users are finding out there is no support for these knock-off devices, and no replacement parts if something gets damaged or needs to be replaced, like a battery. I won't call these sellers "scammers", because I don't think they are selling inferior products with ill-intent, but the end result is the same.) TL;DR this is one time when buying brand-name might be a good idea.

- Remember that buying an ECV is kind of like buying a car - it's a very personal experience, and features or performance that are important to one person may be meaningless to another. Don't be afraid to walk out of the showroom without making a purchase until she has found something she is really happy with, and can afford.

Those are just *my* thoughts and opinions. I hope you all can find something that your Mom likes, and will take her on many great adventures, like my Angus has for me!

 

[anonymousegirl]

Aw... come on! What's 3000 or so miles out of your way? LOL

OK, seriously. Here's some of the things I would keep in mind for your Mom:

(All of this presumes there is an elevator to get her to the floor she lives on, and no steps that she has to deal with.)

- Measure any doors she will pass through at her home and the apartment building, so that you know for sure if the scooter will fit. Make sure that the elevator doors will stay open long enough for her to either back out, or pull out. If the elevator in her building is not very large, she will probably have to learn how to back in - and do so quickly enough that the doors won't try to close on her. That way, she can drive straight out when she gets to her floor. If she can't back in to the elevator going in... she will have to be able to back out coming out, and again, do so before the doors auto-close.

- Make sure that you (or someone in her world) can either lift the scooter assembled, or at least are able to lift the heaviest portion of it if it is disassembled for transport in a passenger car.

- Make sure that the seat is comfortable for her, and that she can reach the controls when seated properly. Sitting towards the front edge of the seat to reach the controls might cause fatigue, and she won't use it if it isn't easy and comfortable to sit in and use. Watch as she gets on and off the scooter for possible trip hazards (for example: can she lift her feet high enough?) and make sure that she can get on and off safely without assistance if that is going to be necessary.

Similarly, if she has arthritis in her hands, make sure the throttle control will be comfortable for her to use for extended periods of time. If there are hand-operated brakes (not likely, but they do appear on some ultra-lightweights), make sure her hands are strong enough to stop the weight of her + the scooter.

- Find out the cost of replacement batteries up front. Some day your Mom will be done using the scooter, and the next user may need to swap out the batteries for new ones. If the scooter is cheap, but the batteries cost a fortune to replace, that might be a checkmark in the "con" column for sure.

- Worry less about accessories and "extras" (like USB chargers and fans, etc.) and more about safety features like solid tires (that can't go flat) or headlights for visibility. Don't load it down with lots of saddlebags, baskets, and other stuff that can cause problems with (1) theft, (2) stability or (3) portability. Think of a daily use ECV vs a rental like a draft horse vs a race horse. Your draft horse may not be as exciting or glamorous, but it is going to pull the wagon every day, loaded or not, day in and day out as long as you care for it. The race horse is beautiful and exciting, but it's not going to do the daily work of the draft horse for you. (poor analogy but it's late, so please forgive me LOL)

- Make sure you get ANY warranty or guarantee promised to you in writing. If a salesperson says to you that the battery won't need to be changed for 5 years, get it in writing, on company letterhead, or better yet as part of the sales contract.

- Take a moment - either in the store, or at home after you make a "let's just see what's out there" visit - and go to places like MonsterScooterParts.com to see if they carry replacement parts for that brand of scooter, and more importantly, *what* they have for any model you are considering. A big "red flag" might be if the manufacturer of the scooter isn't listed there. (Sadly, there are all kinds of rip-off/knock-off mobility devices flooding the US now, because Amazon has made it possible to drop ship these into the US; users are finding out there is no support for these knock-off devices, and no replacement parts if something gets damaged or needs to be replaced, like a battery. I won't call these sellers "scammers", because I don't think they are selling inferior products with ill-intent, but the end result is the same.) TL;DR this is one time when buying brand-name might be a good idea.

- Remember that buying an ECV is kind of like buying a car - it's a very personal experience, and features or performance that are important to one person may be meaningless to another. Don't be afraid to walk out of the showroom without making a purchase until she has found something she is really happy with, and can afford.

Those are just *my* thoughts and opinions. I hope you all can find something that your Mom likes, and will take her on many great adventures, like my Angus has for me!

THANK YOU! These are things I would have not thought about. I was going to measure the open area of her living room so we can check turn radius, but I didn't think about the door, or the elevator. She lives in a retirement community and the elevators are large with slow moving doors, so we are alright there. Not sure about loading it into a car. She certainly cannot do it, and we live a couple of hours away. She may have to use her walker to get to the grocery store!

 

[mamabunny]

THANK YOU! These are things I would have not thought about. I was going to measure the open area of her living room so we can check turn radius, but I didn't think about the door, or the elevator. She lives in a retirement community and the elevators are large with slow moving doors, so we are alright there. Not sure about loading it into a car. She certainly cannot do it, and we live a couple of hours away. She may have to use her walker to get to the grocery store!

First of all - it's a *very* good idea to measure not just the open area of her living room, but also the width of any interior hallways in her apartment as well. And remember that (for reasons I will never understand) a lot of times bathroom doors are not quite as wide as any other doorframe in a home.

So... I don't want to be intrusive, but does she still drive her own car? If so, for now, she may be better served by a Rollator to get around (a walker that has a nifty built-in seat, typically with a handy storage basket underneath) and then she can use the store-provided ECV-cart at grocery stores, WalMart & Target. If there is anyplace in her vicinity that rents ECVs, she could rent from them for special occasions - like outings to museums, festivals, etc.

Or... another thought is asking her Retirement Community if they have a transport that will accept her (currently theoretical) scooter. If they do, then she should be able to schedule the transport to/from wherever she wants to go within their limits. Often at retirement communities, these are smaller buses, like a lot of hotels, shuttles or parking services run at airports.

Last, but not least, there is an "ultra light" category of scooters that I mentioned previously. These are scooters like the TravelScoot (which is what I use full time now). I use mine without the seat back, so it weighs in at about 33 pounds (without me). I can lift it in and out of the back of my Kia Soul fully assembled - although I do have to keep the back seats down. Disney bus drivers (as you can imagine) *love it* because it is so lightweight and easy to tie down - the whole scooter is a tie down point. She might not be able to lift it herself, or even fold it herself, but it is very compact.

Or it could be that you can use a variety of strategies - a walker or Rollator for some things, a scooter for others, etc.

You and your Mom sound like smart cookies to me - I bet you will come up with *exactly* the right solution for her!

 

[arminnie]

Does she live in an area with public transportation? Most if not all offer paratransit bus service that have lifts for wheelchair or scooters.

We have a van with a lift but when my husband is not available to take me I have signed up for the paratransit service. I have not used it yet but my neighbors have. It gives door to door service with a reservation required.

 

[mamabunny]

Does she live in an area with public transportation? Most if not all offer paratransit bus service that have lifts for wheelchair or scooters.

We have a van with a lift but when my husband is not available to take me I have signed up for the paratransit service. I have not used it yet but my neighbors have. It gives door to door service with a reservation required.

That's a great idea for her to look into

 

[anonymousegirl]

Here is bit more information about why she needs a scooter. She can walk. She should use, (but doesn't) a cane for stability. She is very resistant to anything that makes her appear old and infirmed--I tell her, Mom, you're 85, you are officially OLD, suck it up (said with a smile).

She lives in a large retirement community and still drives her own car. But the community is so big that she is having trouble getting to the clubhouse, the dining room, and to her gardening plot. She tries to drive but there is rarely any parking nearby. She gets her heavy groceries delivered but can still get around the shops for short periods of time.

The rollator is a better choice than a walker for her, but wouldn't address the stamina issue (she has COPD among other things).
She cannot lift anything weighing more than twenty pounds, so she won't be breaking down her scooter for those short trips to the market, pharmacy, etc. When we come to take her out, then we would be able to break it down if necessary.

Her building already has wide elevators with very slow moving doors. The outdoor walkways are wide, and all public doors have automatic doors. The community clubhouse has scooter parking with plugs. Her entry door way is quite wide. In addition to the open living room space, I measured the spare room doorway, and also a hallway that would be a better choice (but she says she doesn't want to look at "that thing" all the time because it reminds her how old she is).

We tried yesterday to test drive some scooters, but somehow she got the closing times wrong and the shop was already closed when we got there {SIGH}. So that was a 180 mile round trip drive for nothing {double SIGH}.

Thanks everyone for the advice and support. DIS people are the very best kind of people!

 

[kaytieeldr]

but somehow she got the closing times wrong

Yeah. Somehow. Sure

Maybe get some flame decals for it? Or otherwise decorate it so it and its user look young? This https://www.amazon.com/EV-Rider-Tra...way&sprefix=Mobility+scooter,aps,167&sr=8-10? Or one of these https://www.amazon.com/Recreational...eway&sprefix=Mobility+scooter,aps,167&sr=8-13 https://www.amazon.com/Mobility-R3-...eway&sprefix=Mobility+scooter,aps,167&sr=8-17 or even this https://www.amazon.com/EWHEELS-Elec...ps,167&sr=8-19-spons&psc=1&smid=AS5MW25HPS2TU (careful - "only" ten in stock ).

 

[kaytieeldr]

Here's another one https://www.amazon.com/eWheels-E-Wh...JG345TCEE5GC&refRID=39DYAGNFJG345TCEE5GC&th=1 in a variety of colors. Or this https://www.amazon.com/TopMate-Elec...=B07SRB4ZR3&psc=1&refRID=1VG63JFN1GVNATZV7N1M if she's under 200 pounds. She CAN'T claim this last one makes her look old!!

 

[mamabunny]

Here's another one https://www.amazon.com/eWheels-E-Wh...JG345TCEE5GC&refRID=39DYAGNFJG345TCEE5GC&th=1 in a variety of colors. Or this https://www.amazon.com/TopMate-Elec...=B07SRB4ZR3&psc=1&refRID=1VG63JFN1GVNATZV7N1M if she's under 200 pounds. She CAN'T claim this last one makes her look old!!

Oooooh girl, that last one - the TopMate? It's dangerous! Srsly. I watched a couple of YouTubes a while back about that style because I thought it was interesting. So much ouch in one video! If I can find it, I'll come back and post it.

 

[mamabunny]

Here is bit more information about why she needs a scooter. She can walk. She should use, (but doesn't) a cane for stability. She is very resistant to anything that makes her appear old and infirmed--I tell her, Mom, you're 85, you are officially OLD, suck it up (said with a smile).

She lives in a large retirement community and still drives her own car. But the community is so big that she is having trouble getting to the clubhouse, the dining room, and to her gardening plot. She tries to drive but there is rarely any parking nearby. She gets her heavy groceries delivered but can still get around the shops for short periods of time.

The rollator is a better choice than a walker for her, but wouldn't address the stamina issue (she has COPD among other things).
She cannot lift anything weighing more than twenty pounds, so she won't be breaking down her scooter for those short trips to the market, pharmacy, etc. When we come to take her out, then we would be able to break it down if necessary.

Her building already has wide elevators with very slow moving doors. The outdoor walkways are wide, and all public doors have automatic doors. The community clubhouse has scooter parking with plugs. Her entry door way is quite wide. In addition to the open living room space, I measured the spare room doorway, and also a hallway that would be a better choice (but she says she doesn't want to look at "that thing" all the time because it reminds her how old she is).

We tried yesterday to test drive some scooters, but somehow she got the closing times wrong and the shop was already closed when we got there {SIGH}. So that was a 180 mile round trip drive for nothing {double SIGH}.

Thanks everyone for the advice and support. DIS people are the very best kind of people!

I like your Mom. She sounds feisty, and I want to be just like her when I am 85! LOL

I do understand the roundtrip thing though - long-distance caregiving is *not* easy!

LOL get her a "scooter cozy", or a pretty throw to cover it up when she isn't using it! And just gently remind her that it's just a *tool* to get things done (like getting over to the dining hall), but it doesn't define who she is. If she was sewing a new dress, she would use a sewing machine, not a stapler. If she was baking a pie, she would use an oven, not a blowtorch. Using the right tool to get a job done is always the way to go!

I'm glad to hear that she's still so independent! Go Mom!

 

[cobright]

Just going to throw an idea out there that may not apply at all (or may help). Sometimes a traditional "scooter" style ECV is the right choice to make and sometimes not, and sometimes it's the right solution to today's problem but will not be much help for tomorrow's. I'll get to this in just a second.

I like 3 wheel ECVs more than 4 wheel. They are inherently more stable on uneven terrain unless compairing to an ECV with independent front suspension. Even 4 wheel ECVs with independent suspension generally have limited travel. This means that rolling over an obstruction or onto a steep incline (like a ramp) bust be done very close to head on or else the one side will rise up the incline and lift the other into the air, at which point the ECV can teeter a bit.

Now ... do we know for sure that mom's not going to need a more inclusive mobility solution sometime in the near-ish future? What I'm getting at is that maybe a power chair is a choice to consider. The reason I bring it up is that a p-chair option like Whill Ci (and plenty others) have zero turning radius, are generally smaller overall, and might be easier to manage. The Whill comes apart easily into 3 pieces that are very easy to manhandle into the trunk of a car. The downside is that they are more expensive. If a reletively standard ECV runs about $2k, the Whill is twice that.

 

[mamabunny]

Just going to throw an idea out there that may not apply at all (or may help). Sometimes a traditional "scooter" style ECV is the right choice to make and sometimes not, and sometimes it's the right solution to today's problem but will not be much help for tomorrow's. I'll get to this in just a second.

I like 3 wheel ECVs more than 4 wheel. They are inherently more stable on uneven terrain unless compairing to an ECV with independent front suspension. Even 4 wheel ECVs with independent suspension generally have limited travel. This means that rolling over an obstruction or onto a steep incline (like a ramp) bust be done very close to head on or else the one side will rise up the incline and lift the other into the air, at which point the ECV can teeter a bit.

Now ... do we know for sure that mom's not going to need a more inclusive mobility solution sometime in the near-ish future? What I'm getting at is that maybe a power chair is a choice to consider. The reason I bring it up is that a p-chair option like Whill Ci (and plenty others) have zero turning radius, are generally smaller overall, and might be easier to manage. The Whill comes apart easily into 3 pieces that are very easy to manhandle into the trunk of a car. The downside is that they are more expensive. If a reletively standard ECV runs about $2k, the Whill is twice that.

Yes - that's a good point, @cobright!

Or, even a Fold And Go power chair, like our friend @RaySharpton has might have a shorter learning curve.

The only thing I worry about with some of the newer style, lighter-weight power chairs is that the foot rests aren't always as intuitive as I would like; I can see someone getting tangled up and falling as a possibility with some of them, both getting in or out of the chair. Having said that, the Fold And Go seems to have a pretty good design, and is (at least at the moment) the way I will go when I ultimately require a full time power chair.

 

[cobright]

Yes - that's a good point, @cobright!

Or, even a Fold And Go power chair, like our friend @RaySharpton has might have a shorter learning curve.

The only thing I worry about with some of the newer style, lighter-weight power chairs is that the foot rests aren't always as intuitive as I would like; I can see someone getting tangled up and falling as a possibility with some of them, both getting in or out of the chair. Having said that, the Fold And Go seems to have a pretty good design, and is (at least at the moment) the way I will go when I ultimately require a full time power chair.

Its true, there's a reason for both designs. There are advantages to the scooter design. They tend to 'feel' more stable when running out at speed over longer distances, your basic cruising. The one aspect I really dislike about them is that they stretch out the 'human footprint' into a size and shape that's not quite human.

We sort of know ourselves better when we move around in a device that's basically a 30" square, vs one that's 2' wide and 4.5' long. And other people tend, better, to see the person in a p-chair instead of the vehicle.

And the zero turning radius is sometimed a more human method of changing directions. When stopped, for example, we don't generally turn around in some sort of arc path. Something I'm playing with that I have only seen a few times is using meccanum wheels to allow the power chair to travel in any direction without turning at all. It let's you move sideways, for instance, like how people often do when pulling items from a shelf shopping, or when sitting at a table in a restaurant.

 

[mamabunny]

...Something I'm playing with that I have only seen a few times is using meccanum wheels to allow the power chair to travel in any direction without turning at all...

I love that idea - but isn't that technology still so new that it's prohibitively expensive? Although... now that DJI has incorporated them into their new S1 Robomaster tank drone, (have you SEEN that thing? Hubs can't wait to get his LOL) maybe the cost will begin to come down.

 

[cobright]

Actually, mec wheels have been around a little longer than I have. The 10 inch wheels can be picked up for under $200 each. The headache is that they are traditionally used as a set of 4 powered wheels. Each wheel has to be able to independently drive forward or reverse to get the effect from the mecanum. But the power chair platforms I have dealt with so far have 2 driven wheels and 2 (or sometimes 4) support wheels either on swivels of using omni-wheels on fixed hubs (the Whil Ci for instance).

The Pride Jazzy I have is just too ... can't find the adjective...je ne sais quoi? but it's balance is weird and I can't make it go sideways with an easy trick like the mec wheels. The Whil Ci lets me do it by pitting the front omni wheels on locking hubs. The omni wheels work by rotating like a traditional wheel on its hub but can also let the wheel move sideways on the rollers that are arranged at 90 deg from direction of hub. So I replaced the Whil omni wheels with new ones that have an electric clutch to stop the main hub rotating on its axle. With the clutch engaged, the front wheels can only move in a sideways direction, which lets the mecanum wheels do their thing and move the chair sideways.

It still doesn't get me the really cool stuff mec wheels can do like diagonal travel but the whil chair is pretty nimble on its own.

I like the Robomaster you linked. It's a good platform. Funny thing is, watching the video, the programming interface they show is called Scratch. It's a programming interface that makes the version of C++ used on these micro-controllers easier for children. And I use it to create the framework everytime I get started on a new system. Eventually things get much fidgety and eventually I hand the project over to someone who will chase down my bugs for me (in exchange for $$).

And the controller for that robot is the same one I've been using on my powerchair designs. A rockchip RK3288. Sort of like a suped up Raspberry Pi.

 

[Simba's Mom]

I like 3 wheel ECVs more than 4 wheel. They are inherently more stable on uneven terrain unless compairing to an ECV with independent front suspension. Even 4 wheel ECVs with independent suspension generally have limited travel. This means that rolling over an obstruction or onto a steep incline (like a ramp) bust be done very close to head on or else the one side will rise up the incline and lift the other into the air, at which point the ECV can teeter a bit.

Wow! 3-wheel scooters are more stable than 4-wheel? Not I'm really confused. I'm looking to buy a new mobility scooter, and I want one that'll break down for the car trunk. Three wheel scooters are lighter when they break down, but I've had several people tell me that 4-wheel are more stable. Now I don't know what to do.
To the OP, I've got the same type of Mom as you in terms of not wanting to use anything that makes her look old, and she's 87. But I haven't gotten up the courage yet to remind her. She won't even use a cane. She'd rather stumble and weave (her own words) than risk fracturing her pelvis, as I did.