Jan 19, 2019 - The day the magic died

[robinb]

No I don't deny any of the data. They aren't trying to screw the Resale market, they are trying to control it. What I think (and what do I know), Disney is constantly trying to:

• Get people to buy Direct
• Keep people in contracts for life (or until they expire)
• Somewhat control the resale market

They do it because it costs them money. I said it elsewhere, I'm a computer programmer. I can only imagine the coding logic involved in their software to manage all this crap. If they bought all their points and are in one Use Year at 1 resort, the owner can book at 11 months out at "home" and 7 months out anywhere and buy anything and access all perks. If they bought all Direct, with multiple Use Years at the same resort, they can book X points at this time at the Home resort, Y points at 7 months out anywhere for this contract, A points at 11 months out home and B points at 7 months out anywhere, etc, etc, etc. This has to be a nightmare to write the code! As this is just the tip of the iceberg. It's costing them a small fortune to support DVC.

Anyone getting screwed is incidental. If Disney knew then what they know now they would have done some things very differently.

Remember Celebration was a Disney invention on Disney owned land. And when it was all done, they annexed it back to Osceola County because they didn't want any part of it. They couldn't control it. It's why Disney has City licenses in Orange County but has very few actual residences and residents. The people who live there are tightly controlled.

I do not think that Disney wants or expects people to own DVC for life. I think that is a *marketing* ploy to get you to buy but not a goal. I’ve owned DVC for more than 20 years and I’ve known for a while they are not that into me anymore. They would much rather replace my BTDT empty-nester family with a younger family with an open wallet. We simply don’t generate additional sales by way of expensive restaurants or the DDP or gift shop purchases or up sell events. Believe me, they would much rather have fresh blood and a family that books parties and buys matching mouse ears and the DDP than me. I bought a pin and some candy on my last stay.

FWIW, I was a computer programmer in a previous (pre DD) life. I don’t think it would be very hard at all to keep all the different types of memberships straight and allow actions (like booking a certain resort) according.

 

[DanCio]

Is it costing DVC a small fortune to manage all those booking issues, or is that paid for by the owners?

DVC or Disney? It depends on whether or not IT charges are charged back to the individual business units or departments. Everyone would think so but this isn't the case. I work in IT for the largest hospital owner in the world and we don't.

 

[ILoveMyDVC]

Not able to read the last 5 pages. I have been critical of the dues increases and other Disney theme park 'stuff'. I find the post about the club vs timeshare interesting. I see exactly the opposite - it was a club and then it became a timeshare when anyone could buy any number of points on the resale market - cheaply. Suddenly people were 'members' without enough points to stay even 1 value week/yr.

In my opinion, 25 points should not a member make.

 

[ILoveMyDVC]

he house wins with every point sold.

HEY! That's my line!

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Not able to read the last 5 pages. I have been critical of the dues increases and other Disney theme park 'stuff'. I find the post about the club vs timeshare interesting. I see exactly the opposite - it was a club and then it became a timeshare when anyone could buy any number of points on the resale market - cheaply. Suddenly people were 'members' without enough points to stay even 1 value week/yr.

In my opinion, 25 points should not a member make.

DVC was selling 50 points to new members for several years who became part of the "club".

No, there's no more club. It's a timeshare and they ought to change the name.

 

[ILoveMyDVC]

No I don't deny any of the data. They aren't trying to screw the Resale market, they are trying to control it. What I think (and what do I know), Disney is constantly trying to:

• Get people to buy Direct
• Keep people in contracts for life (or until they expire)
• Somewhat control the resale market

They do it because it costs them money. I said it elsewhere, I'm a computer programmer. I can only imagine the coding logic involved in their software to manage all this crap. If they bought all their points and are in one Use Year at 1 resort, the owner can book at 11 months out at "home" and 7 months out anywhere and buy anything and access all perks. If they bought all Direct, with multiple Use Years at the same resort, they can book X points at this time at the Home resort, Y points at 7 months out anywhere for this contract, A points at 11 months out home and B points at 7 months out anywhere, etc, etc, etc. This has to be a nightmare to write the code! As this is just the tip of the iceberg. It's costing them a small fortune to support DVC.

Anyone getting screwed is incidental. If Disney knew then what they know now they would have done some things very differently.

Remember Celebration was a Disney invention on Disney owned land. And when it was all done, they annexed it back to Osceola County because they didn't want any part of it. They couldn't control it. It's why Disney has City licenses in Orange County but has very few actual residences and residents. The people who live there are tightly controlled.

I agree about the IT part and we all know, they have massive IT issues without adding DVC into the mix.

 

[ILoveMyDVC]

Owners at new resorts tend to stay at those new resorts until they get tired of them and want to try something different. I'd say give it at least two or three years before they want to try the oldies, unless they want to go somewhere other than WDW like Hawaii or California or HHI or VB.

Thinking we are exceptions - wanting to stay at OKW over and over. Hey - at least our hearts are pure - there was only one Disney Vacation Club when we bought in - wasn't worried about staying at any other (DVC) resort.
Guessing many people buy resale contracts at the older resorts to stay at the newer ones albeit without home resort advantage.

And how many times have folks chanted: Buy where you want to stay

I am not hating the new rules - wishing they were enacted years ago. Buy direct = real.

 

[ILoveMyDVC]

When my friends went to a very early DVC presentation, for OKW, the only resort available, he asked, "What if we don't want it any longer? What if we outgrow it or our kids don't like to come here any more?" Disney said "This is Disney. You will always have a week every year to come here for a vacation, already paid for. You're not going to outgrow it. When you have kids, they are going to want their own DVC membership too."

5 owners of a contract over it's life? In their mind "Never going to happen." They expected very few people to sell their DVC Membership; but they knew some would. Someone could pass away, someone could have a job change, get divorced, whatever life changes happen could make someone not want or need their DVC membership. Those were exceptions and why they have ROFR. They never envisioned anyone selling their interest in 10 years.

Disney is not attempting to screw the reseller or resales market with all the changes. Those are incidental to their purpose which is selling everything direct in the first place.

How much did they bring on themselves when they dropped the minimum purchase? Now they churn through owners via the small contracts on resale.

 

[ILoveMyDVC]

DVC was selling 50 points to new members for several years who became part of the "club".

No, there's no more club. It's a timeshare and they ought to change the name.

50 is not a reasonable number for ownership - it made sense for add-ons bought directly but it started the explosion of "Memberships"

 

[DanCio]

DVC was selling 50 points to new members for several years who became part of the "club".

No, there's no more club. It's a timeshare and they ought to change the name.

It's always been a timeshare. Say what you want but you were and still are buying a deed to a piece of real estate in a condominium that you had part interest in. Disney used the wording "Club" to differentiate between a traditional timeshare and the points system they were using.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

It's always been a timeshare. Say what you want but you were and still are buying a deed to a piece of real estate in a condominium that you had part interest in. Disney used the wording "Club" to differentiate between a traditional timeshare and the points system they were using.

I'm well aware of that and always have been. The poster I am responding to likes the Club.

 

[DanCio]

Not able to read the last 5 pages. I have been critical of the dues increases and other Disney theme park 'stuff'. I find the post about the club vs timeshare interesting. I see exactly the opposite - it was a club and then it became a timeshare when anyone could buy any number of points on the resale market - cheaply. Suddenly people were 'members' without enough points to stay even 1 value week/yr.

In my opinion, 25 points should not a member make.

In a timeshare, you had to buy weeks at a time at a resort. With Disney, the figured out how to change that. But it's still a timeshare and always has been. You bought a partial piece of a real estate interest in a condominium. That's a timeshare.

As for dues going up, I own a condo. My dues go up every year. Water goes up, cable TV goes up, electric goes up, the roof needs to be replaced, the elevators need to get repairs. As an owner I have to pay for that and I pay more every year. If someone thought dues would remain stagnant, they were wrong. if someone bought a contract and the perks were not part of the contract, why would someone think they would get them for life?

 

[ILoveMyDVC]

In a timeshare, you had to buy weeks at a time at a resort. With Disney, the figured out how to change that. But it's still a timeshare and always has been. You bought a partial piece of a real estate interest in a condominium. That's a timeshare.

As for dues going up, I own a condo. My dues go up every year. Water goes up, cable TV goes up, electric goes up, the roof needs to be replaced, the elevators need to get repairs. As an owner I have to pay for that and I pay more every year. If someone thought dues would remain stagnant, they were wrong. if someone bought a contract and the perks were not part of the contract, why would someone think they would get them for life?

Thank s for the 'timeshare' explanation - I didn't mean to imply that I didn't actually know what a timeshare is - we have many friends that snapped up weeks here and there at fire sales. What I meant was - it felt special when people had to layout big $ through Disney and less so when anyone could pick up 25 points on the internet.

While I did not expect stagnant dues, I did not expect the rate of increase coupled with the level of disrepair at OKW before this refurbishment.

 

[Deb & Bill]

I do not think that Disney wants or expects people to own DVC for life. I think that is a *marketing* ploy to get you to buy but not a goal. I’ve owned DVC for more than 20 years and I’ve known for a while they are not that into me anymore. They would much rather replace my BTDT empty-nester family with a younger family with an open wallet. We simply don’t generate additional sales by way of expensive restaurants or the DDP or gift shop purchases or up sell events. Believe me, they would much rather have fresh blood and a family that books parties and buys matching mouse ears and the DDP than me. I bought a pin and some candy on my last stay.

FWIW, I was a computer programmer in a previous (pre DD) life. I don’t think it would be very hard at all to keep all the different types of memberships straight and allow actions (like booking a certain resort) according.

You are buying more than we do, Robin. If we don't eat at Disney, we're not spending any money at all. And we're even eating off site some of the times.

 

[Donna M]

50 is not a reasonable number for ownership - it mad sense for add-ons bought directly but it started the explosion of "Memberships"

I believe this is how the problem started. It is hard to vacation at DVC with only 50 points. There is too much demand for the studios as a result. They started with a 260 minimum when they first started selling, but who could afford that today when each precious point is so expensive.

I won't gush about DVC anymore to people I meet. The new 2020 point chart that seems fishy and the big jump in dues make DVC not so great anymore. I still need to to positive though because my dh is souring on the whole thing too and is talking about selling.

 

[jade1]

I still need to to positive though because my dh is souring on the whole thing too and is talking about selling.

Just an awesome option we all have.

And partly why it's so great IMO.

Not sure what you paid and how long ago, but prob come out pretty good if you decide to sell.

 

[robinb]

You are buying more than we do, Robin. If we don't eat at Disney, we're not spending any money at all. And we're even eating off site some of the times.

LOL! A pin and some packaged candy and some meals is all we bought. We stayed AKV Concierge and ate on the lounge floor for both breakfast and dinner for 6 days so we also only bought one meal per day. I gave up pretending that I wasn't full after the 5-7pm "snacks".

 

[BWV Dreamin]

I have yet to figure out how they plan on keeping the points on each side of the barrier they’re trying to construct in balance.

And the points must stay in balance or the entire booking system will fall apart.

Over time, more points are going to flow into the L14 resorts than the other way around, particularly since landlocked (resale) owners of the new resorts book them up prior to 7 months: there’d be plenty of space for the new resort (direct) owners to book into the L14 but no corresponding space for L14 owners to exchange into.

LOL " landlocked".......