It's different than the old days

[Klayfish]

We can go back and forth but the fact of the matter is a lot of people have stopped going as much or at all because of the need to plan. You can not eat table service but if you want little Janie to eat lunch with Mickey, you have to plan 6 months out. If you want a FP for certain rides, 2 months out. And someone will tell me how they got such and such FP, the day of by being on their phone and refreshing the site and getting it. Another thing you have to 1) know to do and 2)want to spend time doing. And that’s fine but again researching.

I don't know if it's true or not that a lot of people have stopped going as much because of the "need" to plan. Not arguing, I truly don't know. But if it is true, I would guess new people come and take their place. Hasn't WDW attendance been on the rise every year and is still going up?

You're right, I guess if you want to have lunch with Mickey or dinner with Cinderella, you need to book it 6 months out. Though I don't blame Disney for that, it's just a function of having so many guests. When you're visiting the most popular tourist destination in the country, having a basic understanding of how it functions is definitely strongly recommended. Don't need a plan, but basic understanding. If you have that, winging it is a breeze.

 

[Boardwalk Jedi]

While I was a super planner for WDW, each trip I ran into plenty of people (especially FL residents) that would just come up for the day or weekend and do whatever. Good for them, I say. You offered your help and she will take it if she wants it. Honestly whenever I hear someone say they're going to WDW, there's about five other moms who appear out of nowhere to give their "expertise". That's kind of annoying and you don't want to do that.

 

[tvguy]

My cousin just posted that she is going to wdw for the very first time - next month. My heart dropped. Has anyone had that experience? WDW these days not a place you just show up and wing it. I told her to call me so I could at least try to give her a lifeline considering she is staying offsite and is within 30 days of her "lifetime" trip. It's definitely not like the old days where you could figure everything out once you arrived.

I agree. We made our first WDW in 2017 after dozens and dozens of trips over the last 55 years to DL. It is an entirely different animal, and despite 16 years on the DIS, I did not understand how much different. I could have used a lot more advice. We are used to park hopping, and we wasted a lot of time in transit at WDW. In September we were back at DL and were reminded of this when one morning i when we left our room at the Grand Californian, rode 3 rides at DL, rode 3 rides at CA, and were sitting down to Breakfast in Tomorrowland in DL all in 60 minutes.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I am not trying to presume what every person thinks when they show up on that random Wednesday. But if you have a base ticket and use it to go to MK, arrive at 2:00 and then find out you have to leave at whatever time when the party starts a LOT of people in that situation may be disappointed. I am not going to pretend they won’t be. They just paid whatever $xxx for a ticket to only use for a few hours.

I'm not pretending either. I'm just not presenting a situation such as yours just to try and prove a point about lack of planning. I do mean that respectfully I just think it's one of those things as you are insisting someone plan an entire WDW trip just to ensure the situation presented doesn't happen. I already said you need a ticket and to know park hours and that goes for 365 days of the year party season or not. We agree on that knowledge. I just don't know what reaction a particular person would have in the situation you presented.

The either/or that I presented was meant to be FP or stand by. Stand by would be when it’s useful to know when the line is down the most.

People wait in line. It's not the end of the world. How is knowing that it may a lower wait for X ride during a parade is useful to someone who wants to watch a parade? Frankly to some that might even make the situation more stressful to try and dig around. Their child wants to watch a parade but internally they are thinking...oh but X ride is more likely to have a lower wait because of the parade..ugh but Johnny wants to watch the parade, etc. IDK for some people ignorance is bliss.

We can go back and forth but the fact of the matter is a lot of people have stopped going as much or at all because of the need to plan.

I'm sorry but respectfully no one actually can know that.

If people you know have said that understandable. If people on this Board have said that (and I know they have) also understandable but frankly with millions and millions of guests to WDW each year it's hard to know just what caused a lot of them to stop going. Disney can find out for a subset of people by sending surveys but that's about it.

Normally stopping going to a place, especially if it was often enough, is a culmination of things. Costs, the ever-creeping party seasons, paid events, rising costs for both tickets and if you're one to stay onsite the resort room rates, and sure the feeling that you're planning too much, etc. If you were the type of person to do a one and done trip that's not you stop going to a place.

And someone will tell me how they got such and such FP, the day of by being on their phone and refreshing the site and getting it. Another thing you have to 1) know to do and 2)want to spend time doing.

...People switch up their FPs are book them for the first time under the 60 day mark. But remember if you're not on this site or some other site you're less likely to know that this ride is really popular over this ride, etc. It's possible you would just look for what's available and take it.

In any case knowing that you book FPs by doing xyz is part of the basic knowledge I was talking about. But yeah you still don't want every visitor every day to utilize FPs on a fellow guest standpoint.

But at least some knowledge of at least some of the place makes that possible.

Sure which is why I said basic knowledge.

Once you start getting into particulars and ins and outs it stops being basic.

_______________
I know though that yes we can for sure go back and forth; we're just expressing our opinions though

 

[luvsJack]

I don't know if it's true or not that a lot of people have stopped going as much because of the "need" to plan. Not arguing, I truly don't know. But if it is true, I would guess new people come and take their place. Hasn't WDW attendance been on the rise every year and is still going up?

You're right, I guess if you want to have lunch with Mickey or dinner with Cinderella, you need to book it 6 months out. Though I don't blame Disney for that, it's just a function of having so many guests. When you're visiting the most popular tourist destination in the country, having a basic understanding of how it functions is definitely strongly recommended. Don't need a plan, but basic understanding. If you have that, winging it is a breeze.

Oh, not at all. I didn't mean that its hurt Disney in the least. It hasn't. I just know that there are many here and IRL that have stopped going because they feel like they don't want to put that much into. And of course the cost getting higher. But there will always people who will replace those that stop going. First time guest, One time and done guests.

The ADRs, well it is what it is but some of that is Disney's fault some of it isn't.

 

[amberpi]

Oh, not at all. I didn't mean that its hurt Disney in the least. It hasn't. I just know that there are many here and IRL that have stopped going because they feel like they don't want to put that much into. And of course the cost getting higher. But there will always people who will replace those that stop going. First time guest, One time and done guests.

The ADRs, well it is what it is but some of that is Disney's fault some of it isn't.

No one knows why anyone stops going, or why another family starts. Personally, I have changed my own onsite patterns as the service is dismal at WDW "deluxe" resorts and the prices just keep rising. I do believe that the implied need to plan (which as witnessed in tons of posts of mine, I don't believe to be true) a WDW vacation can now be such a huge drawback as to make some raise the white flag. Everyone has their hard stops. Mine I'm sure seems dumb as fudge to some people, but it is what it is and it's my money. Leaving WDW behind because you feel like you must DO ALL THE PLANNING seems as legitimate to me as the next reason.

 

[luvsJack]

I'm not pretending either. I'm just not presenting a situation such as yours just to try and prove a point about lack of planning. I do mean that respectfully I just think it's one of those things as you are insisting someone plan an entire WDW trip just to ensure the situation presented doesn't happen. I already said you need a ticket and to know park hours and that goes for 365 days of the year party season or not. We agree on that knowledge. I just don't know what reaction a particular person would have in the situation you presented.

People wait in line. It's not the end of the world. How is knowing that it may a lower wait for X ride during a parade is useful to someone who wants to watch a parade? Frankly to some that might even make the situation more stressful to try and dig around. Their child wants to watch a parade but internally they are thinking...oh but X ride is more likely to have a lower wait because of the parade..ugh but Johnny wants to watch the parade, etc. IDK for some people ignorance is bliss.

I'm sorry but respectfully no one actually can know that.

If people you know have said that understandable. If people on this Board have said that (and I know they have) also understandable but frankly with millions and millions of guests to WDW each year it's hard to know just what caused a lot of them to stop going. Disney can find out for a subset of people by sending surveys but that's about it.

Normally stopping going to a place, especially if it was often enough, is a culmination of things. Costs, the ever-creeping party seasons, paid events, rising costs for both tickets and if you're one to stay onsite the resort room rates, and sure the feeling that you're planning too much, etc. If you were the type of person to do a one and done trip that's not you stop going to a place.

...People switch up their FPs are book them for the first time under the 60 day mark. But remember if you're not on this site or some other site you're less likely to know that this ride is really popular over this ride, etc. It's possible you would just look for what's available and take it.

In any case knowing that you book FPs by doing xyz is part of the basic knowledge I was talking about. But yeah you still don't want every visitor every day to utilize FPs on a fellow guest standpoint.

Sure which is why I said basic knowledge.

Once you start getting into particulars and ins and outs it stops being basic.

_______________
I know though that yes we can for sure go back and forth; we're just expressing our opinions though

But, I'm not just presenting a scenario. It has happened. There have been posts here about it and on Facebook. If its happened to people who complained, you have to know that its happened to people who haven't. I am not saying that anyone should complain or storm the castle or anything like that, just that it has happened. Different people are going to have different reactions of course. But when you are paying that much for what you believe is a whole day in MK and it ends up being a much shorter day, I am sure it would be a tiny bit frustrating. It would be the fault of the guest for not knowing but that doesn't make it any less frustrating.

No one can know what people they know or people in groups they are a part of have said their reasons are? Really? I think you are completely misunderstanding that statement. I am not just saying "I bet" I am saying I have been told this by numerous people IRL and online. So yes, I can know that. Is it hurting Disney? No, of course its not. But doesn't mean its not true.

Every time anyone on these boards says anyone stops going for any reason they get hit with "well, its not hurting Disney". No one said it would.

If you go merrily about your day and assume that there isn't a better time to wait in line, so be it. But I am sorry, I think anyone can tell that a 120 minute wait is a bit over a 50 minute wait. Just saying. And during a parade isn't the only time. But there ARE better times to wait in stand by. Regardless of whether you care, doesn't make it not so.

I think anyone can walk in to any Disney park and see which rides are the most popular. It doesn't take reading the DIS by any stretch. When you see the obscene wait times for FoP, it sort of gives you a clue.

We can go back and forth all day like I said. You can tell me that it doesn't take planning, but honestly, we both know better. If it doesn't take planning and research, please tell me why one of the responses is ALWAYS "well try going to any other big tourist attraction without research and planning" Usually in the same post that they swear they go and have a grand time without any preplanning

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

For the sake of clearing confusion I'm responding.

But, I'm not just presenting a scenario. It has happened. There have been posts here about it and on Facebook. If its happened to people who complained, you have to know that its happened to people who haven't. I am not saying that anyone should complain or storm the castle or anything like that, just that it has happened. Different people are going to have different reactions of course. But when you are paying that much for what you believe is a whole day in MK and it ends up being a much shorter day, I am sure it would be a tiny bit frustrating. It would be the fault of the guest for not knowing but that doesn't make it any less frustrating.

Where did I say it didn't happen? I think you're reading into what I said and inferring that I'm being naive. I'm not.

Your original comment was:

But if you show up on a random Wednesday in October to the MK and find out you can only be in the park for a few hours because there is a party that night; chances are you will wish you had looked it up. Or if you stay on site to get in the parks early, might help if you know what days you can get in which park.

Yeah I'm not going to presume what a stranger was or wasn't feeling. I already said you need a ticket to enter and to know park hours. If you showed up, the park closed several hours later, that doesn't equate to exhaustive planning with knowing the ins and outs of ADRs and FPs and the thoughtprocess that fireworks and parades will draw the crowds away from X ride so that might be a better time to ride it. Knowing the park hours represents basic knowledge.

No one can know what people they know or people in groups they are a part of have said their reasons are? Really? I think you are completely misunderstanding that statement. I am not just saying "I bet" I am saying I have been told this by numerous people IRL and online. So yes, I can know that. Is it hurting Disney? No, of course its not. But doesn't mean its not true.

I full on said:

If people you know have said that understandable. If people on this Board have said that (and I know they have) also understandable but frankly with millions and millions of guests to WDW each year it's hard to know just what caused a lot of them to stop going. Disney can find out for a subset of people by sending surveys but that's about it.

Neither one of us said anything about hurting or not hurting Disney. I was responding to your very assertive comment of:

We can go back and forth but the fact of the matter is a lot of people have stopped going as much or at all because of the need to plan.

1) A lot of people stopped going?
2) A lot of people stopped going because of the need to plan?

Hence my comment of mine I quoted above.

But I am sorry, I think anyone can tell that a 120 minute wait is a bit over a 50 minute wait. Just saying.

I'm sorry I'm unsure what you're "just saying".

A 2 hour wait is more than a just under 1 hour wait. You're right about that. But what is subjective is that to some a 2 hour wait doesn't bother them.

I know someone, a DIS vet if you ever saw one, who wait over 4hours in line for FOP standby. He didn't do it because he didn't know about FP. That was at RD and the ride was down and they didn't know when it would go back up.

I think anyone can walk in to any Disney park and see which rides are the most popular. It doesn't take reading the DIS by any stretch. When you see the obscene wait times for FoP, it sort of gives you a clue.

That requires you to actually be in the park. Isn't the whole point of this thread and the conversation between you and me that it's about planning? Plus wait times can be higher because of a breakdown, because they are only running the attraction at X capacity, etc.

A new attraction is probably a good thoughtprocess that it would be popular. What you do with that knowledge, if you found out about it that is, differs depending on the type of person you are. I think if someone went to WDW's website (which I do normally suggest) last year you'd probably see a lot of images talking about Toy Story Land. Give it a few more months and Star Wars Land will be all over the website as the opening date for WDW gets closer and closer.

You can tell me that it doesn't take planning, but honestly, we both know better.

I'm sorry please don't try and use "we know better" type statement. I have said multiple times basic knowledge. I have also said we don't utilize the same definition. Don't confuse what I'm saying to mean something it isn't.

If it doesn't take planning and research, please tell me why one of the responses is ALWAYS "well try going to any other big tourist attraction without research and planning" Usually in the same post that they swear they go and have a grand time without any preplanning

I'm an individual who has their own opinion. Others have their own opinion. Just because someone says something doesn't mean I don't agree with them. Framing your comment with "If it doesn't take planning and research, please tell me why one of the responses is ALWAYS "well try going to any other big tourist attraction without research and planning" is just taking people's opinions and trying to creat a fact-based statement out of it. We, on the Boards, are not representative of everyone out there. I sincerely think sometimes people forget that. I love the DIS but it's easy to get tunnel vision, myself included that's for sure


------
In any case maybe it's better we agree to disagree. Totally PM me if you want I have no issues with that. Just didn't want you (and I'm not blaming you at all) and I to keep going on and on (and yes I know I'm contributing to that lol).

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

My cousin just posted that she is going to wdw for the very first time - next month. My heart dropped. Has anyone had that experience? WDW these days not a place you just show up and wing it. I told her to call me so I could at least try to give her a lifeline considering she is staying offsite and is within 30 days of her "lifetime" trip. It's definitely not like the old days where you could figure everything out once you arrived.

People can and do just that. In fact, the average person probably books a hotel and may make some dinner reservations or even a fast pass or two. But the first true planning they do is when they open their map right in the bottleneck under the RR at 11 am when they walk in. And I like them for making my day better by not getting there early.

And a lot of them come back not liking Disney after they've waited in long lines both for rides and at the lunch counters and discovered that their hotel that says "main gate" in its name is a half hour away.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

We can go back and forth all day like I said. You can tell me that it doesn't take planning, but honestly, we both know better. If it doesn't take planning and research, please tell me why one of the responses is ALWAYS "well try going to any other big tourist attraction without research and planning" Usually in the same post that they swear they go and have a grand time without any preplanning

If one is lucky to go at a slack time, they can easily get away with little planning. Also people that know the place can get away with a lot less planning. Yes it is possible to walk in at noon and have a good time. As long as you know you're not getting on Space Mountain at 1pm Dec 25 without a fast pass without a very long wait and you are good with that and the crowds, you can still have a good time.

 

[Hikergirl]

I agree, it's hard to just "wing it" for Disney these days and considers alot of planning. But if she starts now she can still piece together a great trip. Hopefully she lets you help her out. Good luck.

If she starts now she can still "piece together" a great trip?
She can have a wonderful trip even if she doesn't plan anything.
Some people actually do enjoy just showing up and winging it. I understand that many, especially on this board, don't believe it's possible, but sometimes people just roll with it because that is how they are.
Besides, no plan can mean no disappointment when things they painstakingly planned 8 months in advance don't work out. I've seen more people complain about how their plans didn't work out than I have seen people say they've had a horrible trip because they didn't plan.
Just being familiar with things may all be that is needed for OP's cousin to have the time of her life.

 

[wvjules]

I'd be a little put off by you offering a "lifeline" to me. It implies that I'm clueless and don't know what I'm doing. Hopefully you phrased it better than it comes across here.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

If she starts now she can still "piece together" a great trip?
She can have a wonderful trip even if she doesn't plan anything.
Some people actually do enjoy just showing up and winging it. I understand that many, especially on this board, don't believe it's possible, but sometimes people just roll with it because that is how they are.
Besides, no plan can mean no disappointment when things they painstakingly planned 8 months in advance don't work out. I've seen more people complain about how their plans didn't work out than I have seen people say they've had a horrible trip because they didn't plan.
Just being familiar with things may all be that is needed for OP's cousin to have the time of her life.

I didn't have a horrible trip nor did I complain but I did nearly 2years worth of planning only for Irma to happen.

We still went, we still had an amazing time, but the parks were closed 2 days, they cancelled EMH one night we were planning on being there, they didn't have certain attractions open for a while due to damage (we were lucky and got in Jungle Cruise before Irma hit), we extended our trip 1 day, we went to Universal on arrival day instead of doing Disney Springs, the wait times were nowhere near as high (which is great) as I planned because of Irma and while we didn't have MNSSHP tickets I do know they cancelled a few parties. The wait times messed with the planning because all that worry over this ride or that ride being really long was all for naught.

All that planning to have a whopper of an event occur. I got very lucky that the 2 days the parks were closed were 2 days we were planning on being at Universal so I didn't have any FPs or ADRs planned but it def. messed with the planning. And while I wouldn't count on a hurricane to be a common thing at all I would say that just because you planned it all and that made you less stressed doesn't mean you can't still have something/multiple things occur to throw off all the careful planning.

 

[georgina]

We went 3 days just before Thanksgiving with no ADR's, had a great late lunch at Spice Road Table on Monday and got a day-of ADR for dinner at Mama Melrose's on Tuesday. I had made a few FP's, but other than that no plan. I agree that everyone should have a basic understanding of how FP works, but do we know the cousin hasn't done a little research?

 

[Boardwalk Jedi]

We went 3 days just before Thanksgiving with no ADR's, had a great late lunch at Spice Road Table on Monday and got a day-of ADR for dinner at Mama Melrose's on Tuesday. I had made a few FP's, but other than that no plan. I agree that everyone should have a basic understanding of how FP works, but do we know the cousin hasn't done a little research?

I bought a book (official WDW and passporter, I think). I enjoyed researching and it kept me psyched up, you could say. I preferred that over people dropping me their overly detailed advice. Some people solicit advice on WDW the way they solicit pregnancy and baby advice as if they are the only ones who have ever had a baby before. I try and avoid those people.

 

[motherof5]

If she starts now she can still "piece together" a great trip?
She can have a wonderful trip even if she doesn't plan anything.
Some people actually do enjoy just showing up and winging it. I understand that many, especially on this board, don't believe it's possible, but sometimes people just roll with it because that is how they are.
Besides, no plan can mean no disappointment when things they painstakingly planned 8 months in advance don't work out. I've seen more people complain about how their plans didn't work out than I have seen people say they've had a horrible trip because they didn't plan.
Just being familiar with things may all be that is needed for OP's cousin to have the time of her life.

That's true. Everyone is different. I would be a little nervous not having any plans. But I always leave Disney excited to go back!

 

[tex1989]

I really think you can have a good time with out much planning. I think seeing it for the first time causes a sense of wonder that makes it enjoyable. Things that people who go all the time take for granted are really appreciated by first timers. People who over plan tend to set expectations that might not be achieved. I have seen people on these boards say that trips were ruined because a character did not greet their child a certain way or there was a lack of pixie dust thrown their way. So yeah you can wing it and have a good time!

My only advice to her would be get the Disney App and know how to use it. For grins today I was looking at the app and at least in Magic Kingdom there were FP+'s available for a lot of stuff SDMT, Peter Pan and SM were off the table but as of about noon today I could have gotten them for everything else. Plenty of places to eat and even some available for booking today as well.

If they can use the app and have not set unrealistic expectations then yeah they can have a great trip.

 

[PollyannaMom]

My cousin just posted that she is going to wdw for the very first time - next month. My heart dropped. Has anyone had that experience? WDW these days not a place you just show up and wing it. I told her to call me so I could at least try to give her a lifeline considering she is staying offsite and is within 30 days of her "lifetime" trip. It's definitely not like the old days where you could figure everything out once you arrived.

February can actually work out pretty well even without the 6-months out planning! We booked really late for our Feb 2017 trip, because DH's vacation time had to be scheduled around some work travel, and we still had a great time.

Encourage her to get a book (from the library is fine) to familiarize herself with the layout of the parks, and get an idea of things she might like to do. There is so much available that you can't fit everything into one trip anyway, so if she has a long list of things she might like, she can pick and choose as she finds things available. (Plus she'll know what things aren't right for her family as well.)

I'd say the really important things to know about are:
Park times, and transportation time/procedures from where she's staying (parking, shuttles, etc.)
FP+ rules (3 in advance, 1 at a time after that, windows, different tiers, etc.)
How to use the MDE app, and all the things it can do.
How ADRs work. (There will be a lot still open, even if not the most "famous" ones, and she may be able to snap up trickier ones as people cancel.)
Rope drop procedures if she wants to do that (or other hints for shorter lines - single rider, parade timing, etc.)

 

[Patience]

I don't know about Six Flags but it is exactly that way at Universal. Show up, buy a ticket, have fun. 0 planning. 0 researching. 0 learning about anything.

Back to Disney, there is a wide range between "no plan" and "minute to minute spreadsheet planning" and you actually fall in the middle there somewhere. And you cannot say that Disney isn't making it harder and harder to do that. They are. They WANT us to plan every minute. Why? It keeps us all on property and in the bubble so we continue to spend money.

I do think WDW requires planning, much more than Universal. It's one of the reasons we haven't been back to WDW in a while. I don't think there's anything wrong with letting people who haven't been to WDW before or recently know that the best way to see Disney World is to do at least some pre-planning. Things have definitely changed since the "old days".

We have a WDW trip planned for February, our first trip to WDW since 2013, and I hope I haven't been spoiled too much by Universal. Going to Universal reminds me of Disney in the 90's and early 2000's. We were at Universal twice in 2017, in February and again in December, because it was less expensive for us to buy an annual pass for our February trip than it was for us to buy 3 day tickets so why not go twice. We actually upgraded our 3 day tickets with one day free that we bought from Undercover Tourist to an annual pass and recieved money back. Yes, they refunded us money to upgrade to an annual pass. Anyway, we stayed at a Universal onsite hotel booked at the AP rate, had complimentary unlimited express passes, and we rode everything, multiple times, as many times as we wanted, with little to no wait and we ate wherever we wanted with no reservations. All of that for $199 per night at Royal Pacific with the AP rate. Sigh. We are paying over $100 per night to camp in our RV at Fort Wilderness in a preferred site. I do have fastpasses for 3 rides per park because I marked my calendar and jumped on the computer at 7 am to book them when the 60 day window opened. But, even though we are RV camping, we will end up paying more for this Disney trip than we paid for our Universal trips and I fear that I am going to have no patience with lines over 20, maybe 30 minutes at the Disney parks. We shall see.

 

[Floridaman999]

How many lifelines does this game have?