It's different than the old days

[luvsJack]

Generally speaking, you're probably right. However, I think the key to this is if people have a basic understanding of how WDW works. You don't need to do hours of research, but at least get the idea. If you walk up to the gates expecting to just walk onto any ride you want whenever you want and get a table at any restaurant at any time, you'll be sadly disappointed. Heck, that's true even at Six Flags (at least the ride part, they don't have fancy restaurants). But if you have a working understanding of FP+, that QS is an option, etc...then you definitely can show up at the gates with no plan and enjoy it. I could get in my car now, drive down, buy a ticket and just have a ball. No plan needed...in fact, no plan is wanted.

I could do the same thing. But I have been enough times that I know exactly where everything is, the best times to do certain things and I am not concerned about what I do or don't get done. And I know how FP works. and I know ahead where I want to eat.

Your average Joe that is going for the first time and doesn't do anything to plan, isn't going to have a clue about ADRs, fast passes, rope drop or anything. They will literally show up at the gates and buy a ticket expecting to see all the wonderful things you see on the commercial. Its not going to happen and we both know it. If they have their hearts set on riding Haunted Mansion or POC (not even two of the biggies), they need to know one of two things; the best time to try and ride OR how to get a FP for them. And that is planning.

I don't know about Six Flags but it is exactly that way at Universal. Show up, buy a ticket, have fun. 0 planning. 0 researching. 0 learning about anything.

Back to Disney, there is a wide range between "no plan" and "minute to minute spreadsheet planning" and you actually fall in the middle there somewhere. And you cannot say that Disney isn't making it harder and harder to do that. They are. They WANT us to plan every minute. Why? It keeps us all on property and in the bubble so we continue to spend money.

 

[Skellingtonj]

But wait you’re assuming she has nothing planned.. because she just said it today?

 

[cabanafrau]

She'll figure it out, so I'd leave it alone. As much as I love WDW one of the things I dislike the most about it now is all the pre-planning. I remember going in the '80's and just show up and have the parks to ourselves. Of course there were only 2 parks at that time. As I've grown older I've realized that I have a love/hate relationship with a number of things in life, profession, employer, alma mater etc. It is the way of life, rarely do you have 100% good points and 0% bad. This is why we enjoy US as an alternative from time to time.

The pre-planning is one of the main reasons WDW is no longer a desirable destination for us. A WDW vacation was a go to destination for times when we wanted to simply book the trip, drop our bags on arrival and have fun -- a completely reasonable expectation of a theme park vacation IMO -- especially one we've already visited.

 

[Park Pirate]

I think a lot of good points have been brought up in this discussion. So many people have already stated my thoughts on the subject (including the love-hate relationship with Disney World). In this case, I think it depends on your cousin's expectations and your relationship with them.

If they have heard about all the great things and all the fun you have had there (assuming you have told them about the most popular rides and restaurants) and think that they can simply show up and painlessly do all the same things without planning, I would at least tell them that you have found that you need to do some advance planning. I would also tell them that you are available to offer suggestions, if they want.

If they don't know what to expect, like to be spontaneous, and would rather figure out what they want to do on their own, then I would just tell them that you are available to offer suggestions, if they want.

I do understand your thinking. If you really enjoy something and others know you enjoy it, I think there is a natural tendency to want them to enjoy it to. You don't want them to go and have a disappointing time, only to wonder why you did not tell them about what is involved.

As others have stated, there is also a big difference between a once in a lifetime trip and those of us that go somewhat frequently. For frequent visitors, there is not as big of a need to experience everything. I could certainly go on a days notice and have a great time, as I would not expect to experience everything and could comfortably concentrate on those things that I both want and know that I could get done on such a short notice.

Anyway, I agree with those that say to offer help with planning if they want it. But, I certainly would not be pushy about it.

 

[GreatLakes]

I think the need to play every moment of your day is very overstated on these boards. You can't literally show up with no idea about anything like you could in even the 90s but with very minimal understanding of how ticketing, ADRs, and Fastpass works you absolutely can "wing it". Will you see everything and eat at your first choice restaurants at peak times? No. Can you go with a general outline of a plan and wing it from there? Absolutely.

We just got back from a short trip with my 1 year old. We let him dictate our day which mean on one of our two park days my wife didn't do a single ride and I did exactly 2 but it was still a lot of fun just wandering the park with our son. It was the trip in which I did the least of any trip I've ever done but I just let it play out and still loved it because it was the first one as our new family. Each trip is what you make of it.

 

[Klayfish]

I think the need to play every moment of your day is very overstated on these boards. You can't literally show up with no idea about anything like you could in even the 90s but with very minimal understanding of how ticketing, ADRs, and Fastpass works you absolutely can "wing it". Will you see everything and eat at your first choice restaurants at peak times? No. Can you go with a general outline of a plan and wing it from there? Absolutely.

We just got back from a short trip with my 1 year old. We let him dictate our day which mean on one of our two park days my wife didn't do a single ride and I did exactly 2 but it was still a lot of fun just wandering the park with our son. It was the trip in which I did the least of any trip I've ever done but I just let it play out and still loved it because it was the first one as our new family. Each trip is what you make of it.

Completely agree. I don't think you "must" pre-plan. I don't think WDW is making it harder to do without a plan, and if they actually are I'd say it's caused by the guests not WDW. I don't think WDW cares one way or another if people have a full on plan. Sure, you should have a basic understanding of how things work, but beyond that you can show up and wing it. It's just that most here don't (which is totally fine).

 

[slpeters]

I think they are going to be fine. The fact of the matter is that I think people who hyperplan (and I'm one of them) tend to overestimate how necessary it is. I plan partly because it's how I am. I'm planning a trip to New Orleans and I have charts and touring plans, just like Disney. In fact I'm quite excited because I've found a site with software to do a TouringPlans style plan for a lot of major tourism destinations (including New Orleans), down to planning it all out on a map and giving suggested travel times between points of interest. I've already checked to see if this software would have picked up an error in planning that I made on our last trip to Paris--it would have and I'm excited about that. But that's me, it's not New Orleans, or Paris for that matter. It's how I plan a trip and I enjoy it that way--on the other hand I'm perfectly aware that drunken college kids manage New Orleands just fine with little to no planning, in the high season no less...

I don't honestly know what WDW was like back in the day--my first trip ever was two years ago. But I think the average visitor to Disney World is much closer to the people showing up and buying their tickets than they are to most people on this site. And so many of these people come home with such glowing stories of their trips that they prompt more and more people to want to go, so much so that I can barely make my way down Main Street when I go. Does it break my heart to overhear someone explain to their daughter that they don't have FastPasses because those are for the people who paid extra? Absolutely. But that's not because they didn't spend 6 months planning their trip that's because they didn't spend an hour or two perusing the WDW website. Someone suggested that it's not like you could just show up and go on POC and HM without knowing when to go or how to get FPs. When I read that I flipped over to the app to check--30 minutes for POC and 40 for HM. It's more than I'd be willing to wait but it hardly seems trip-breaking. And unless I missed a trick 3:30 in the afternoon is hardly the magical best time to ride anything.

If they don't even know what FPs are, someone should probably tell them. If they want help beyond that, step up. If they don't let them go have their trip. I bet it will be magical!

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I could do the same thing. But I have been enough times that I know exactly where everything is, the best times to do certain things and I am not concerned about what I do or don't get done. And I know how FP works. and I know ahead where I want to eat.

Your average Joe that is going for the first time and doesn't do anything to plan, isn't going to have a clue about ADRs, fast passes, rope drop or anything. They will literally show up at the gates and buy a ticket expecting to see all the wonderful things you see on the commercial. Its not going to happen and we both know it. If they have their hearts set on riding Haunted Mansion or POC (not even two of the biggies), they need to know one of two things; the best time to try and ride OR how to get a FP for them. And that is planning.

I don't know about Six Flags but it is exactly that way at Universal. Show up, buy a ticket, have fun. 0 planning. 0 researching. 0 learning about anything.

Back to Disney, there is a wide range between "no plan" and "minute to minute spreadsheet planning" and you actually fall in the middle there somewhere. And you cannot say that Disney isn't making it harder and harder to do that. They are. They WANT us to plan every minute. Why? It keeps us all on property and in the bubble so we continue to spend money.

Best this Best that it's all subjective.

And in regards to Haunted Mansion and POC FP isn't even considered a priority to most. HM because of the merge point. You do get an edge up but only to a certain point and then it's just a blob. And POC because typically speaking lines are (edit: not) uber uber bad.

You only get FPs for 3 rides to begin with (edit: per day) (unless you're CL and purchase additional ones) and in places 3 out of the 4 parks there are tiers where you're limited to what you get. You are bound to be in a line somewhere. Standby exists. It's not like you are prohibited from riding a ride or a show unless you use a FP.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

OP most at this point that I would suggest is to say "I'm here if you'd like to know anything or go over anything" just so that she knows you'd be willing to help out and then say "oh don't forget to check out the website for WDW" if you know she'd be up for looking over websites.

 

[luvsJack]

Best this Best that it's all subjective.

And in regards to Haunted Mansion and POC FP isn't even considered a priority to most. HM because of the merge point. You do get an edge up but only to a certain point and then it's just a blob. And POC because typically speaking lines are uber uber bad.

You only get FPs for 3 rides to begin with (unless you're CL and purchase additional ones) and in places 3 out of the 4 parks there are tiers where you're limited to what you get. You are bound to be in a line somewhere. Standby exists. It's not like you are prohibited from riding a ride or a show unless you use a FP.

I was just using those as an example. Didn't want to use the top rides right now and they came to mind. Why is POC uber uber bad? It wasn't in all the years before FP+.

Its all subjective? Well, I guess that depends. But there are better times to ride at least some things. At rope drop, during parades or fire works, at the end of the night, etc. . and if you don't have FP, its good to know those things.

Actually you get as many FP as you can get. You just start out with three.

I don't have a problem with FP+. Didn't have a problem with paper FP. They both have their pros and their cons but we don't have a choice so you use what they offer.

What I do have an issue with is the amount of research, learning and planning that goes into a Disney vacation. You may not do all three but you have to do at least two of the three. I just want to go where I want to go and not stress about it.

 

[RangerPooh]

I don't think there's any harm in inquiring what she hopes to accomplish on her visit. This leaves the possibility of a conversation of FP+ and dining ressies. If she indicates that she plans to go with the flow then there's not really any need to delve into the topic. You don;t want to overwhelm her.

That said, we and a few other families are staying for a few days in Orlando prior to our summer trip. Our family is planning to visit WDW as we have annual passes, another hinted that they wanted to tag along with us. We know this family and how they operate. That the dad is the type to promise the kids the sky and then be frustrated that they couldn't do XYZ. The unreasonable expectation type. We had to sit him down (and his wife) to give them a realistic expectation of expenses (tickets, parking, food), lines (rides/attractions/characters, transportation, food), etc. For them it also included dialogue that we arrive to the parks prior to rope drop, and are not waiting on your schedule since you're planning to tag along. That a deviation of the plan is on you, not us.

 

[cabanafrau]

Completely agree. I don't think you "must" pre-plan. I don't think WDW is making it harder to do without a plan, and if they actually are I'd say it's caused by the guests not WDW. I don't think WDW cares one way or another if people have a full on plan. Sure, you should have a basic understanding of how things work, but beyond that you can show up and wing it. It's just that most here don't (which is totally fine).

No doubt Disney greatly appreciates guests who come and pay the price of admission without boarding more than an attraction or two, if that. Ups the odds the guests may be spending time shopping or dining, which are revenue drivers. The executive who figures out how to get guests to return over the course of seven to ten years in order to attempt to eventually take in all of the attractions is a reliable revenue stream -- and allows them to leave the same slate of attractions in place for an indefinite period of time because the customers -- er, guests, won't be bothered if nothing is "new", because whatever they haven't seen previously is new to them anyways.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Why is POC uber uber bad? It wasn't in all the years before FP+.

Sorry I meant the lines are not uber uber bad I'll go edit that.

Its all subjective? Well, I guess that depends. But there are better times to ride at least some things. At rope drop, during parades or fire works, at the end of the night, etc. . and if you don't have FP, its good to know those things.

It's subjective because it's only "Best" to someone but can be considered not best to another. You may think a ride should be ridden at X time because of abc but another family think a ride should be ridden at y because of abc.

Even our FP guru is careful with wording.

Actually you get as many FP as you can get. You just start out with three.

Please re-read my comment:

You only get FPs for 3 rides to begin with (unless you're CL and purchase additional ones)

Of course you can get as many FPs that are available. But pre-planning (which is what we're talking about since the OP's cousin isn't at the parks at this exact second) you're limited to 3 per day (I could have clarified per day in my comment--I'll go edit that as well) as well as working with tiering. You're not going to be able to know in advance that you're going to be able to ride every single ride you want with a FP.

What I do have an issue with is the amount of research, learning and planning that goes into a Disney vacation. You may not do all three but you have to do at least two of the three. I just want to go where I want to go and not stress about it.

Have to? You don't have to do anything other than have a ticket to get into the parks well I guess also know the park hours. If you feel like you do xyz so you don't stress go for it. There's nothing wrong with that. Just know that what you do to not stress isn't the same as someone else.

You don't really want the thousands and thousands of guests anyways to know all the ins and outs. I think the key is to not get bogged down in worrying just exactly how someone else is planning their trip.

 

[luvsJack]

Sorry I meant the lines are not uber uber bad I'll go edit that.

It's subjective because it's only "Best" to someone but can be considered not best to another. You may think a ride should be ridden at X time because of abc but another family think a ride should be ridden at y because of abc.

Even our FP guru is careful with wording.


Please re-read my comment:



Of course you can get as many FPs that are available. But pre-planning (which is what we're talking about since the OP's cousin isn't at the parks at this exact second) you're limited to 3 per day (I could have clarified per day in my comment--I'll go edit that as well) as well as working with tiering. You're not going to be able to know in advance that you're going to be able to ride every single ride you want with a FP.

Have to? You don't have to do anything other than have a ticket to get into the parks well I guess also know the park hours. If you feel like you do xyz so you don't stress go for it. There's nothing wrong with that. Just know that what you do to not stress isn't the same as someone else.

You don't really want the thousands and thousands of guests anyways to know all the ins and outs. I think the key is to not get bogged down in worrying just exactly how someone else is planning their trip.

By best, I meant when the line was down. So that would be whatever you feel works for you and the line is down.

No you don’t have to do anything. But if you show up on a random Wednesday in October to the MK and find out you can only be in the park for a few hours because there is a party that night; chances are you will wish you had looked it up. Or if you stay on site to get in the parks early, might help if you know what days you can get in which park. And now we have the added hours that you can pay for! Another thing to know! And of course there are many other examples.

Go look on the Theme Park forum. Any day of the week there will be a thread started about someone getting to the parks and something being not like they thought or having changed or the times changed or whatever and you will see 50 people saying “you should have researched it” or “I can’t believe people go on vacation somewhere and don’t have the details”.

I don’t care how anyone plans their trip. What they like and what I like may be two very different things. I don’t want to run a race all day but maybe riding 20 rides in one day is important to them. And that is ok. So getting bogged down in what the next guy is doing isn’t my thing.

 

[GreatLakes]

Completely agree. I don't think you "must" pre-plan. I don't think WDW is making it harder to do without a plan, and if they actually are I'd say it's caused by the guests not WDW. I don't think WDW cares one way or another if people have a full on plan. Sure, you should have a basic understanding of how things work, but beyond that you can show up and wing it. It's just that most here don't (which is totally fine).

And is that really all that different than most high traffic vacation destinations? Try seeing the Vatican or most museums in Florance without at least a rudimentary plan.

Heck, I don't even go out on a new trail without taking a few minutes to look over a topographical map first.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

By best, I meant when the line was down. So that would be whatever you feel works for you and the line is down.

You said this:

they need to know one of two things; the best time to try and ride OR how to get a FP for them. And that is planning.

It was an either/or situation you presented.

Standby exists too. I sorta find myself appreciating how I toured back in 2011 when I used something like 3 FPs in 5 days. We just waited in line. We didn't really complain (though it sucked when TT when down for a storm would have happened FP or no FP). But there is an assumption out there based on comments I guess that we just regretted it, how foolish were we to wait in SB, if only if only, etc meanwhile we had the time of our lives; there was no Board to tell me I should have done it this way. Fast forward to 2017..Did I like pre-planning and usage of FP+? I sure did. But I don't approach WDW with the thoughtprocess that I need to do what others consider as the best time to ride xyz and that I must use a FP for a ride or I'm out of luck. Besides I actually want to watch the fireworks and while I'm not a parade person bringing kids along may change that (and so is getting to the parks early--heck we couldn't even get there as early as I wanted several times in 2017).

I totally agree with basic knowledge no doubt. I just don't have the same definition of basic knowledge.

Go look on the Theme Park forum. Any day of the week there will be a thread started about someone getting to the parks and something being not like they thought or having changed or the times changed or whatever and you will see 50 people saying “you should have researched it” or “I can’t believe people go on vacation somewhere and don’t have the details”.

People tend to frame things as have to when they just are really "here's what helped me". It's also something to keep in mind that this site isn't representative of the park-goers in their entirety.

I love to research and plan and oddly enough I'm the type of person who will defend the non-uber planners. Sure there are some things people can help out but really we're only getting a snippet of people and normally people post negative things vs positive things. The OP is basing their comment on the assumption their cousin is in for it because they just notified the OP they are going to WDW next month. It's quite possible the cousin will have a horrible time, it's also quite possible they'll have a great time. It's quite possible they have done some planning too just maybe not the same amount/in-depthness as others feel they should do.

No you don’t have to do anything. But if you show up on a random Wednesday in October to the MK and find out you can only be in the park for a few hours because there is a party that night; chances are you will wish you had looked it up. Or if you stay on site to get in the parks early, might help if you know what days you can get in which park. And now we have the added hours that you can pay for! Another thing to know! And of course there are many other examples.

I wouldn't presume to know what a person who showed up on a random Wednesday in October at MK was thinking honestly and respectfully. Who knows if they are the type of person to storm the gates (literally) demanding to be admitted past X time, who knows if they are the people who lamentate about their mistake in not looking up park hours, who knows if they are the people who were just glad they got some time in at WDW let alone MK, etc.

But I do understand what you're saying, you're def. not alone in that thinking but neither is the whole other side of the 'argument'. I'd say on this Board bigger planners prevail makes sense to given this is at its heart a planning website

 

[luvsJack]

You said this:



It was an either/or situation you presented.

Standby exists too. I sorta find myself appreciating how I toured back in 2011 when I used something like 3 FPs in 5 days. We just waited in line. We didn't really complain (though it sucked when TT when down for a storm would have happened FP or no FP). But there is an assumption out there based on comments I guess that we just regretted it, how foolish were we to wait in SB, if only if only, etc meanwhile we had the time of our lives; there was no Board to tell me I should have done it this way. Fast forward to 2017..Did I like pre-planning and usage of FP+? I sure did. But I don't approach WDW with the thoughtprocess that I need to do what others consider as the best time to ride xyz and that I must use a FP for a ride or I'm out of luck. Besides I actually want to watch the fireworks and while I'm not a parade person bringing kids along may change that (and so is getting to the parks early--heck we couldn't even get there as early as I wanted several times in 2017).

I totally agree with basic knowledge no doubt. I just don't have the same definition of basic knowledge.

People tend to frame things as have to when they just are really "here's what helped me". It's also something to keep in mind that this site isn't representative of the park-goers in their entirety.

I love to research and plan and oddly enough I'm the type of person who will defend the non-uber planners. Sure there are some things people can help out but really we're only getting a snippet of people and normally people post negative things vs positive things. The OP is basing their comment on the assumption their cousin is in for it because they just notified the OP they are going to WDW next month. It's quite possible the cousin will have a horrible time, it's also quite possible they'll have a great time. It's quite possible they have done some planning too just maybe not the same amount/in-depthness as others feel they should do.

I wouldn't presume to know what a person who showed up on a random Wednesday in October at MK was thinking honestly and respectfully. Who knows if they are the type of person to storm the gates (literally) demanding to be admitted past X time, who knows if they are the people who lamentate about their mistake in not looking up park hours, who knows if they are the people who were just glad they got some time in at WDW let alone MK, etc.

But I do understand what you're saying, you're def. not alone in that thinking but neither is the whole other side of the 'argument'. I'd say on this Board bigger planners prevail makes sense to given this is at its heart a planning website

The either/or that I presented was meant to be FP or stand by. Stand by would be when it’s useful to know when the line is down the most.

I am not trying to presume what every person thinks when they show up on that random Wednesday. But if you have a base ticket and use it to go to MK, arrive at 2:00 and then find out you have to leave at whatever time when the party starts a LOT of people in that situation may be disappointed. I am not going to pretend they won’t be. They just paid whatever $xxx for a ticket to only use for a few hours.

We can go back and forth but the fact of the matter is a lot of people have stopped going as much or at all because of the need to plan. You can not eat table service but if you want little Janie to eat lunch with Mickey, you have to plan 6 months out. If you want a FP for certain rides, 2 months out. And someone will tell me how they got such and such FP, the day of by being on their phone and refreshing the site and getting it. Another thing you have to 1) know to do and 2)want to spend time doing. And that’s fine but again researching.

You mention Uber planners. There are Uber planners that plan every minute of a beach vacation. They just like to plan and stuff as much into a vacation as they can. It makes them happy. And there is nothing wrong with that. But there is a huge middle between Uber planners and non-planning. And no matter which way you do it, Disney falls in there.

My sister takes a lot of cruises. The British Isles, Greek Isles, they have gone to Russia, Italy and planning one to Australia. A year or two ago, they took the grandkids to Disney. She called me in the middle of trying to plan, ready to throw up her hands. More planning and planning issues than she has had on any other trip. That says a lot. She asked my advise. I said “go to Universal” I was only half kidding. I went over and helped her get it done. They wanted to do a lot of character meals. They wanted to ride things that appealed to the different ages. That’s how a lot of people want to do Disney. They just don’t realize the amount that goes into that kind of trip.


We have had great trips when nothing was planned, too. Yes it can happen. But at least some knowledge of at least some of the place makes that possible.

 

[mom2rtk]

Why do people worry so much about how other people vacation?

 

[motherof5]

My cousin just posted that she is going to wdw for the very first time - next month. My heart dropped. Has anyone had that experience? WDW these days not a place you just show up and wing it. I told her to call me so I could at least try to give her a lifeline considering she is staying offsite and is within 30 days of her "lifetime" trip. It's definitely not like the old days where you could figure everything out once you arrived.

I agree, it's hard to just "wing it" for Disney these days and considers alot of planning. But if she starts now she can still piece together a great trip. Hopefully she lets you help her out. Good luck.

 

[Happyinwonerland]

Not everyone is an obsessive type a disney planner. I hate preplanning my trips. I get my ADRs and FPs and loosely plan around those, but I'm just as likely to change ADRs at the 25 hr mark and FPs on a whim. I have great trips and no regrets, and sooo much less stress.