I love credit cards so much! v2.0 (see first page for add'l details)

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mamathompson

Mouseketeer
Joined
May 15, 2011
@Lain @SouthFayetteFan and SO many others on here. I'm just echoing what has already been said. Stumbling upon this thread and learning from you all has opened my family up to so much travel we would not otherwise be considering. Our churning looks different from many others because of our young, large, growing family. I have learned that trips I only dreamed of can become a reality and even if everything was clawed back, I would still be appreciative of the money I have already saved. I hope you will continue to share DPs without fear.
 

Alexle2007

DIS Veteran
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Oh, I did make to the BWI PP lounge, The Club. It is in terminal 4 and our gate was right there on United. It is small and people (guests) are rude. Many single people taking up lots of space, there was a family of 3 (one was a baby) taking up a love seat plus another spot. There was a family of 4 and the 2 kids taking up at least 4 seats. The cocktails were good. I had a glass of rose and 2 margaritas. I signed in my 2 co-workers and the gentleman enjoyed many adult beverages before our flight. I had some chicken noodle soup, salad and a maybe a cookie. They had mainly “salad” sandwiches and I don’t do mayo. The one very odd thing was no bottles of water. I tried to grab a couple for the plane ride but it was a no go so I grabbed a Perrier and Coke. I did notice on my return flight that there was a crowd waiting to get into the lounge. If I were flying United again, I would definitely make a stop but probably won’t go out of my way from the SW terminals.
 
  • afan

    Honorary Bus Driver
    Joined
    Dec 30, 2014
    Sitting in Midway with a 2.5 hour delay. And no lounge!! >:( I think there are weather issues east of here.

    We did make it to the PP lounge at Seattle and I’ll write up more once I get settled back home. All in all - great trip to the PNW. Mt Rainier was out in full glory this morning as we drove to the airport. Beautiful sight to send us on our way.
    Glad the mountain was out for you today. It's too bad that it seems summer is finally starting today and it's the day you leave. I hope you didn't get the downpours we had the other day. You saw more of a winter/spring weather pattern with late spring temps which isn't at all normal.
     

    StephPlum

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Feb 1, 2011
    Glad the mountain was out for you today. It's too bad that it seems summer is finally starting today and it's the day you leave. I hope you didn't get the downpours we had the other day. You saw more of a winter/spring weather pattern with late spring temps which isn't at all normal.
    We really only had 2 days of bad weather. I didn’t mind the temps, in fact I like cooler rather than hot. We had one rain out day in Forks. Messed up our tide pooling beach plans but the rain stopped around 7pm and we did Rialto beach at sunset and saw another bald eagle. The next morning was clear and we still had negative tides so we did tidepooling then.

    We had some foggy/cloudy weather in Paradise one day but on our last day we had another clear day and we got to see all of Mt Rainier. I was really glad we stayed in the park as we just rolled out of bed and hiked to some great views before leaving. Maybe some of the wildflowers weren’t out yet but we still saw a lot of them.

    The only other bad weather we experienced was when we went to the top of the space needle. We got in our views but it started raining near the end. All in all it was a very good trip.
     

    Mopedmom1

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Feb 21, 2017
    OT again but does anyone have any opinions on the DL flex AP? If we go in September I’m thinking about getting that. I can make a reservation for Friday and Saturday but I can just show up Wednesday and Thursday. Looks like the flex pass is $220 more than a four day hopper. I’m sure we can find another trip to squeeze in, right?
    I'm thinking of this for next August (2020, husband's 50th bday and that where he wants to go!). From what I've read, for now at least, no one is having trouble getting reservations. Obviously as more people get it, this could change. My plan for now is to start with 5 day hoppers then upgrade on our last day to avoid having to make reservations for the August trip. Then go back in January when weekdays are no reservations needed. Then go back in June and see how it goes. With the thought that if we need to upgrade, we address it at that time in June. It's a gamble but I think you'll be okay in sept making reservations, and I'm sure you'll find a way to go again on days that will work within the year.
    For our trip in November I am getting a 4 day PH. We have not been to DL since 1993 so I am waiting until the last day to decide to upgrade to the FlexPass if we think we will want to return to the park before 25+ years passes by. :teeth: This decision will be mostly dependent on how much my dh feels The Mouse is trying to gouge us! :rolleyes:
     
  • PolyRob

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Mar 8, 2016
    @Lain Thank you for sharing! I am so grateful for all of the information you have provided to the thread over the almost year I have been a part of it. I just got my first MR card and would have started self-referring based on all the successful DPs of our group. If anything was clawed back, it would have been on me. Please know we all willingly go for these cards, rewards, and referrals. I actually feel the loopholes are part of the thrill! 😂 No one is forcing us to do these things and we all know the risks with the rewards. :grouphug:
     

    Mopedmom1

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Feb 21, 2017
    @Lain / @SouthFayetteFan

    As many have already said much more eloquently, in no way do I hold you responsible for anything negative that comes from this hobby. I am so grateful to both of you for being willing to spend so much time educating, advising, and in some cases, even hand holding.

    SFF - you and I applied for the DD within a day or two of each other last August. You got through, I didn't. No way did I ever, would I ever, or will I ever think to place blame on you. Unless you are sitting at my desk holding a gun to my head while I am filling out the app you (or Lain) are not responsible for my actions.

    THANK YOU BOTH FOR EVERYTHING YOU DO HERE!

    Please don't stop. :grouphug:
     

    liloca

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Dec 26, 2013
    I have much deeper thoughts and feelings about this and the recent Amex clawbacks than what I'm going to type. I’ll try to get the gist of this down. I just haven't had much time to write up very many meaningful posts, analyses, or replies, while still keeping up with the conversation and providing at least cursory answers to people's questions. And to be honest, the Amex developments have left me incredibly shaken.

    First and foremost, I want to apologize to everyone who had any MR points clawed back as a result of self-referral. I was the one who brought over the news from r/churning that this was possible last July, and I did it myself and I feel like I set an example for others to follow. While everyone has to consider the risks of whatever they do in this hobby, and assess their own tolerance for that risk, I know we all look to DPs and strategies from both strangers and people we trust to help make our decisions. And if any of you feel like I've steered you wrong, I am truly and deeply sorry.

    I shared the self-referral and cross-referral methods with the intention that this could help folks here earn a lot more points themselves and within their household once they already had one or two Amex cards, instead of settling for public offers or having their clicks go to someone else. I think this succeeded for a time as I, and I'm sure many others, saw a significant drop in their support clicks on Amex cards coming from other DISchurners. Self-referral or cross-referral became the de facto advice on r/churning and here, because if someone wasn't recommending you do it, then they weren't watching out for your interests and likely fishing for your support click. And so everyone was doing it. (I think the fact that MRs cannot be transferred or pooled among spouses or within a household also affected calculations to self-refer rather than refer from P1>P2 or P2>P1.) I’m devastated that this method, in the end, cost some people real money if you paid taxes on points that Amex ultimately took away with no indication how they’re going to fix this mess.

    I can't recall anyone raising any flags that Amex would claw back these support bonuses. Just as I try to relay useful information to this thread, I’m always on the lookout for negative DPs. In late April, we shared a DP from a r/churning claiming that Amex clawed back a self-referral bonus. We advised caution and to wait and see if there were any further DPs of such clawbacks. I waited until June to self-refer to a BBP. There were no more negative DPs, and that report in April appeared to be a one off, perhaps prompted by eyes drawn to the OP's account for other reasons, or maybe the OP was just mistaken. Nothing suggested Amex would go back a year and claw back literally millions of MRs. We should have done better, kept our tinfoil hats on, and always remember Amex's modus operandi. Amex froze accounts and clawed back millions of MR from those who it believed abused the leaked Thanksgiving 2016 100k MR Platinum link. More recently, Amex clawed back the Saks credits from people who returned their purchases – even on closed card accounts, and charged people's cards hundreds of dollars for using multiples of the Staples Amex Offers.

    What Amex giveth, Amex can taketh. It’s a real love/hate relationship with Amex. Amex has some of the biggest and best bonuses, solid co-brand and transfer partners and thus a lot of value to their programs, some cards that are actually worth keeping and putting ongoing category spend on, generous and useful Amex Offers (I’m looking at you Chase and your max $4 back at Rite-Aid), and hands out cards like candy. But Amex is also incredibly high maintenance, sensitive to perceived abuse, and downright schizophrenic. I’m sure all of us could come up with a list of 10 Things I Hate About Amex (h/t @SouthFayetteFan). If Amex thinks you’re not spending enough on them – pop up! Gaming their Amex Offers or credits? Don’t be surprised if Amex charges your statement for returns or refunds on which you got that credit, even if it’s months or more than a year later. The RAT has a long memory. MS their SUB? Bonus denial or clawback. But don’t do enough organic spend so you MS to keep Amex happy? That’s perfectly fine, have some more cards! Glitch holding up your bonus or credits? It’s not our fault, it’s yours! Just keep spending until you hit the bonus! And now the self-referrals…

    You all might not know this from my irreverent chatter on the thread in the past week, but I haven’t felt this low since probably Plastiq 3x died on the CIP. I was a major cheerleader for the CIP, aside from its SUB, and Plastiq because of the ability to actually make money paying your bills. And when Plastiq stopped coding 3x the first time, and then a second time, I know several of you had just paid your bills before the DPs caught up but would only get 1x on the payment and you folks had to eat the fee. Then Chase kept killing all the other things that I happily told you coded 3x on the CIP…

    And now we come to the CIPpy cup. I feel some amount of joy, but also responsibility for bringing news about the CIPpy cup here. I had been monitoring chatter and DPs on r/churning about multiple CIP approvals using only a SSN, but did not share the news until there was confirmation the bonuses were posting. I realized this is a way for us to turbocharge our UR balances, which is probably the favorite currency for most of you, at a time when Chase had killed the DD and imposed 48-month restrictions on the Sapphire cards. Come to think of it, I also shared the MDD.

    All this, as with anything in this hobby, is not without risk. @SouthFayetteFan highlighted many of the risks in his original post. I will add that the Chase could stop refilling the CIPpy cup at any time. Although it’s a general rule that Chase will not approve a card without the bonus attached, Chase could conceivably deny the bonus. I’ve yet to see that on a UR-earning card, but I remember there was chatter about going for the Chase Marriott Biz card before it was discontinued just to hold it for the anniversary FNs, even if you weren’t eligible for the bonus under the fine print restrictions. Chase could, as they did when they were shutting down the Sapphire DD loophole, unilaterally close cards without notice. Personally, I think the risk of this is minimal because you’re not doing a DD with the CIPpy cup, and actual businesses have legitimate reasons for multiples of the same card. I remember seeing an open browser of Tesla Guy’s Chase account with all his cards and spotted several CIPs. But for someone like TPG, who is all about bonus category spend nowadays and spends millions on advertising, it would make sense to have multiple CIPs and BGR/Biz Golds since their bonus categories are capped at $150k/yr. If Chase were to target all their customers with multiples of the same product, they would upset a lot of non-churning clients and businesses. But what if they just targeted those who received SUBs on multiples of the same product within, say, a two-year span. That would also sweep in non-churning clients and businesses with legitimate reasons to hold multiple Ink cards and received bonuses on them. Again, what’s Chase’s modus operandi? Chase isn’t known for clawbacks. I can’t recall ever seeing a DP about a Chase clawback. As I posted recently, Chase’s weapon of choice is a shutdown, whether it be to close specific cards or shut down all card accounts. This is something we typically see in a bust-out situation (due to velocity and balances), the DD purge, or for whatever reason Chase or its affiliates decides to end their relationship with you. I want to be clear, as @SouthFayetteFan already pointed out, in all of these cases Chase never clawed back any points and allowed the customer 30 days to either cash out, redeem it, or transfer the points to a travel partner. (It’s not recommended to transfer points from a shut down account to P2 and risk P2 getting shut down.)

    I’ve discussed Amex and Chase, but there’s also Citi. Many of us are riding the GrAAvy train, but there’s a risk with every application that the bonus won’t post, especially if you’ve used a public link. I can only imagine how terrible @SouthFayetteFan and @speedyfishy must have felt when we discovered public links to the GrAAvy train were a lot more YMMV, without apparent rhyme or reason, after sharing information that they were a way to bypass mailers and possibly save some money.

    @SouthFayetteFan and I, and I’m sure many of the active contributors to this thread share information we come across with only the intention to benefit other members of this community. Personally, I try to vet the information I post, consider the risks and be thorough about explaining it, and I continue to be on the lookout for DPs that say a method has changed, ended, or something else adverse has happened so that I can share that too. But please note that there’s a built-in delay to all DPs, and a DP reported today might have come too late to change something you did yesterday and may not be an accurate predictor of how something works tomorrow. This hobby, its rules, and how the issuers apply those rules are constantly changing. We do our best to keep up and keep you all informed, but we’re not omniscient or infallible. I know we can all be cheerleaders and enablers sometimes, but I have to trust that you consider the benefits and risks as it relates to your own situation, assess your own tolerances, and come to the right decision for you. But please, don't be scared off from this hobby because, I think for almost everyone here, you've notched a lot more wins than losses.

    I know several of you have asked if anyone’s gotten CIP4. I think what they’re looking for is a green light and an all-safe to go ahead and apply for CIP4. I can’t give you that. I don’t think anyone here has gone for CIP4 all with only their SSN, but I also don’t doubt there are folks on r/churning pushing that envelope and beyond. I’ll say under the current way things work, if you go for CIP4, provided you’ve watched your velocity and managed your credit lines, you’ll probably get approved and you’ll likely get your SUB. I can’t make any predictions or assurances what Chase will do with that in the future (maybe nothing!) other than muse about the risks as I did above.

    What does my own strategy look like for the rest of 2019? DW’s CIP3 SUB and the support bonus from my CIP2 just posted this week. DW has two open CIPs from March and June, a CIU from last September, and a CIC from last December. I recently closed my 1+ year old CIC, got approved for CIP3 this week, have an open CIP2 from April, and a sockdrawered Marriott Biz. (Interestingly, I did apply for DW’s and my CIP3 with our FN MI LN and SSN but, as @SouthFayetteFan suggested, with a different business category to at least make a plausible case for different businesses between different CIPs.) With 2 open CIPs each, I’m thinking we’ll both cool off with our CIP apps for the next few months.

    DW is 1/24 and I’m seriously considering referring her from my Biz Plat (20k MR>20k Hilton) to the Hilton Surpass before we cancel her Hilton Biz next month to avoid the AF. That will probably push DW out with Chase, if not for a velocity issue (because, historically, Amex doesn’t report a new personal card until the close of the second statement), then because of juggling the MSRs on several new cards. I was just approved for CIP3, so that’s a $5k MSR in the next 3 months; and I’ve barely made a dent in the Biz Plat upgrade offer for $10k spend in the remaining 4½ months. The Surpass would come with another $4k MSR in 4 months. Then, when DW goes back to Chase, I’m looking at the Hyatt card. At 2/24, another personal card for DW is not a problem. We’ve been meaning to earn some Hyatt points towards a possible Japan redemption so that we don’t have to transfer out of our UR stash, but the CIPpy cup has sidelined those plans. Meanwhile, I’m 4/24 until next spring so I need to stick with biz cards to keep playing in Chase’s playground. I think I’ll have DW refer me from her CIC/CIU to my own CIU, probably in October. That’s a 50k UR SUB and a 15k UR support bonus. Not CIPpy cup money, but also not another open CIP. Afterwards, we’ll probably close DW’s CIU since it will have passed a year. Around the end of the year, I’ll probably refer DW from my CIU to back to CIU2. We’ll see where I am at the end of the year, but I am also eyeing a Hyatt card and that’ll be the card that takes me to 5/24 for a while.
    @Lain as many have already said I appreciate all the time and effort that you spend Sharing so much information with us! I am sure that most of us understand the risks and would never fault you for it!
    Please do not let this situation bring you down!
    Without all the knowledge of this group I would not have been able to go to my last two vacations and I would not be planing my vacation to Brazil for 2020.
    Again I really appreciate EVERYONE in this group!
     
  • gottalovepluto

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jul 14, 2014
    Noticed we met our Plat MSR because Amazon just showed me we have over 100k points. Also reminded me to go ahead and unenroll for now for shop with points.

    Now I kind of feel weird without a MSR! We are refinancing our mortgage though (amazingggg rate) so need that to close first sometime in August before we do anything else in terms of signing up for a new card.
    2 words: Bank. Bonuses.
     

    calypso726

    Escaping reality one Disney vacation at a time
    Joined
    Dec 11, 2006
    Does the weekend night post immediately after MSR, or is it an anniversary night? I’ve looked at this card so many times before but couldn’t make it worth my while. But I do need GE now and I thought maybe someone had mentioned purchasing Tokyo Disney tickets and charging it to their room to use the credit? Can anyone here chime in on that? Between that and GE that could change my mind.
    LOL, me too! I've almost convinced myself to get it in Dec after I apply for the CiP which would put me back to 5/24 until March ...but that would work anyway with Chase's pace.

    That said, no idea about some of your questions but @calypso726 is the Holder of All Aspire Knowledge so maybe she'll chime in!
    I think it may have been @Haley R that posted you could purchase Tokyo Disney tix by charging to the room if you were gold or higher.

    My weekend night did not post after MSR right away. The points did. It took about 8 - 10 weeks after meeting MSR for the free weekend nigh to post. On our card anniversary, which is Jan 18 since we applied on day 1, also did not have our FN post right away. The actual post date for this year was April 4 which is 11 weeks from card anniversary.
     

    Hoosier John

    DIS Veteran
    DVC Premium
    Joined
    Oct 2, 2010
    If you have the ability to pay off that CF, you are still a worthy customer to Chase so please pay off that card. Although if you pay them interest, you are just the type of customer Chase is looking for since they are business to make money off of the people who don’t pay off their balances monthly (unless you have 0% interest rate).

    If you need to float money, you should look for a 0% offer.
    Exactly ... I COULD pay them off, but wonder if I SHOULD. I make more money in other investments right now, and maybe 4% income for Chase will keep them happier (and thus consider me a better customer, if Chase were to aggressively retaliate against multiple CIPs in a year)? I just paid off DVC and a car loan today, so far keeping this active.

    :rotfl2::rotfl2:financial independence retire early
    At least I was half right, but definitely NOT a FIRE candidate ... Good luck to you!

    I’ve stayed away from this thread for most of the year, what the heck is SUB?
    SUB = bonus...
    Yep, Sign Up Bonus (SUB). Thanks @Axele2007! One of the more lucrative SUBs is on the Chase Ink Preferred (CIP) which is a business (BIZ) card. Many folks have a side-hustle that they never considered a business, but legitimately would count, even if income is only (expected) to be a thousand dollars. There are a couple strong competitors to the CIP, too.

    If you're interested, please look at the first couple of posts on Page 1 of this thread, and provide some info about your current situation and what you're after and the gurus here can guide you in the right direction.
     

    afan

    Honorary Bus Driver
    Joined
    Dec 30, 2014
    Oh PNC just when I was starting to be happy with you earlier. I finally finished my online account only to discover that they only have my statements from 2017 and prior. Umm...ok. I couldn't easily find a payment address either but here's all the ways to pay electronically. So I sent a message. I'm fine with setting up and going through plastiq but I want to make sure I send it the correct place.

    We really only had 2 days of bad weather. I didn’t mind the temps, in fact I like cooler rather than hot. We had one rain out day in Forks. Messed up our tide pooling beach plans but the rain stopped around 7pm and we did Rialto beach at sunset and saw another bald eagle. The next morning was clear and we still had negative tides so we did tidepooling then.

    We had some foggy/cloudy weather in Paradise one day but on our last day we had another clear day and we got to see all of Mt Rainier. I was really glad we stayed in the park as we just rolled out of bed and hiked to some great views before leaving. Maybe some of the wildflowers weren’t out yet but we still saw a lot of them.

    The only other bad weather we experienced was when we went to the top of the space needle. We got in our views but it started raining near the end. All in all it was a very good trip.
    Forks is one of the rainiest places in the state :) Interesting about the wild flowers, not sure when they normally bloom. But I have seen some trees turning/leaves dying because of the lack of rain and the cooler weather I'd guess. At least I think the turning is early because I don't remember any trees that turn from green to red as a normal non fall thing. Plus it wasn't all of them in the row so it was just odd.
     

    3 DD love princesses

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Aug 15, 2015
    Can’t remember who else asked about CIP4. I can apply soon but I’m thinking to just wait and refer DH and then I’ll apply through DH’s for the next one as I’m hoping it will be less eyes on my Acct that way.

    We are talking about taking the camper out west instead of flying so if that’s the case I don’t need the CP early on. Either way I can always buy 4 flights with points and then cancel the extra one if I get it in time and we decide to fly.
     
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