I love credit cards so much! v2.0 (see first page for add'l details)

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snugglebug

DIS Veteran
Joined
Dec 9, 2001
How do you sync it? I'm not totally sure I'd like it on my phone but maybe.
I keep my database files (one for clients and one for family) in Dropbox. I use a KeePass app on my phone (Android) and just pull the database from Dropbox. I use MacPass on my Mac. With my setup, I only save passwords on the Windows machine since it's always on and Keepass always running. I have it set to auto-save and update I think so I always have 2 copies of my database, my working file and my untouched file, should anything ever happen.

I do trust Dropbox and with this file, you have to have the program and my long login to break into it (as far as I know it's not been hacked). I like having it off my computer should the hard drive fail, I still have it. Changing computers was super easy since the database file was already cloud accessible. I actually ended up putting a lot of my files on Dropbox so I can pull them down onto whichever computer I'm working on, no matter where I am. Plus, I have a small Macbook Air with very little space on it.
 

tink1970

DCL Platinum
Joined
Dec 29, 2012
And @tink1970 we'll be flying AA from PHL to FCO in November in economy :scared: using our AA vouchers from a voluntary bump! At least it's nonstop, right? And it's 2-4-2 seating so dh and I can rotate the aisle-window seats:laughing:


We've only flown once overseas (to China! nonstop from JFK! in economy! with me stuck in the middle seat between dh and ddThen14!) so, as you can imagine, we are just so excited to be able to start some serious traveling out of the US. Rome in November, India in December, and then Australia next Sept/Oct :woohoo:
I think that's one reason I'll never return to Japan-the flight there was so horrible (middle seat of 5, surrounded by screaming children...shudders).

Rome in November (ignoring the flight) should be great-not as many tourists and not hot and humid.
DD flew AA to FCO a couple of years ago and apparently "they ran out of food." While I'm not sure exactly how true this is (teenagers exaggerate!!) I would take water and maybe a snack or two- compared to several other flights on different carriers, I was offered the least amount of inflight beverages in biz. So water is good and a snack or two (just in case) should help with the flight. Plus-FREE! Hard to beat FREE!

This hobby is so great for learning about travel and opening up the world 🇮🇳🇮🇹🇦🇺🌎
 
  • SouthFayetteFan

    Saving Money on Disney Vacations since 2006
    Joined
    Sep 6, 2014
    sooooo.... possibly @SouthFayetteFan or anyone else here.... if my bro has the no AF sapphire,which he pc'd to from the CSP, and he is planning to go for the CIP soon- he will need to PC that no AF sapphire back up to the CSP to use those ponts thru the travel portal,correct? And if so, timeline? I'd think first get the CIP,then PC the other back to CSP after that,right? and should he pay attention to the AF due date,or will it be calculated fro the date he PC's the card? (I forget,can you SM to PC,or need to call?) thanks
    As it relates to the UR travel portal, CIP and CSP are basically equal. Both get 1.25x on redemptions thru the portal. Did you possibly mean he should upgrade to a CSR for the 1.50x?

    That could make sense, especially if he can easily use the travel credit or use the SW refundable flight trick to take advantage of the credit that way. The $450 annual fee for the CSR will post on its own timeline depending on a variety of factors (I believe mostly depending on the original open date of the card and the timing of the upgrade. If he doesn’t need the 1.50x then I can’t see a logical reason to upgrade to a CSP.
     

    amalone1013

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jan 15, 2016
    Just put in my last Sam's order for Disney Gift Cards!

    Newegg order x 2: $200 + $100 + $25 VGCs for $344.85 - $100 from AMEX offers = $489.70 OOP
    Ordered 15 $50 GCs from Sam's for $47.98 each, also had $50 in Walmart GCs from carpool incentive and Microsoft rewards = additional $19.70 OOP

    $509.40 OOP for $750 = 67.9%

    Between that and the Staple's offers from Chase and AMEX my stash has gone from $0 to $1150. And I've got about $45 pending from cashback portals that will go against my total OOP on my GC stash.
     
  • speedyfishy

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Apr 3, 2016
    I just don’t know if it’s the right decision. I’d love to go back to japan but I also wouldn’t mind waiting until the new land expansion is done but by then we will most likely have kids. It’s a hard choice.

    In relation to the CIP talk, Dh is at CIP #3 and I’m at CIP #2. I’m not sure if I should even go for #3. I really don’t want to offend chase and I feel like we might be pushing it a little bit. If I don’t go for #3 I’m not sure what my next move would be in terms of which card to get next
    Amex MRs can get you to Japan and if you decide to skip it you can cash them out with the Schwab Plat.

    My SIL just told me my brother’s flight with delta was overbooked so they put him in first class for the next flight and gave him a $1,000 target gift card. 😱
    I’m so bitter I never get good offers to get bumped. I flew every month except one from May 2018-May2019 and had one offer on Southwest for one person when I was flying with my SO and it would have been the next day and they offered like a $100 voucher.
     

    speedyfishy

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Apr 3, 2016
    OT again but does anyone have any opinions on the DL flex AP? If we go in September I’m thinking about getting that. I can make a reservation for Friday and Saturday but I can just show up Wednesday and Thursday. Looks like the flex pass is $220 more than a four day hopper. I’m sure we can find another trip to squeeze in, right?
     

    *WDW*Groupie*

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Oct 2, 2006
    We're traveling with a couple our age (50), a couple in their mid40s, but the rest of the people are in their late 60s/early 70s. They may want to break up the travel with a stop. I am not sure how many people will want to pay for business class, though I suspect most if not all will.

    The choices right now are
    • United, nonstop from EWR, on 777 without the fancy Polaris seats (so 2-2-2); same on return
    • Lufthansa from PHL to FRA on 747-400, 5h55m layover, FRA to DEL on A380-800; almost same on return
    • BA from PHL to LHR on 747, 3h40m layover, LHR to DEL on 787; 3 hour longer layover on return
    Opinions?

    And @tink1970 we'll be flying AA from PHL to FCO in November in economy :scared: using our AA vouchers from a voluntary bump! At least it's nonstop, right? And it's 2-4-2 seating so dh and I can rotate the aisle-window seats:laughing:
    If it were me I'd go with the direct flight because I don't like transfers -- I just want to get where I'm going and as long as I'm in a big, comfortable seat I don't really mind.

    Second option would be #2.

    Let us know what you decide!
     
  • Lain

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Oct 4, 2014
    Drinking from the CIPpy cup...what could go wrong?

    I've been pondering something today, and I feel it's worth sharing. I want to preface this by saying, I personally am ok with the risk of CIPpy and will continue to drink until the cup spills over.

    That said, it's worth pointing out that Chase is not afraid to shutdown accounts if they feel abuse has taken place. Earlier this year, a loophole was shared on r/churning that you could generate support links to any Chase card by manipulating the link. This essentially unlocked a backdoor self-support method. Shortly thereafter, it was discovered that these support bonuses had to be posted manually by Chase and could draw unwanted attention to your account. We subsequently decided here, that we would not support this backdoor "self-support" method and we removed all mention of it.

    After this occurred, Chase sent letters out to some of r/churning's support link "super users" (more like super receivers) who had used the ability to PC their card multiple times to max out support points two and three times on the same card within one year. Some of these users also had participated in the link manipulation shared above.

    The text in that letter said:
    We reviewed your credit card account and it appears as though certain transactions represent a misuse of the rewards program...If this activity continues or if there is any other misuse or misrepresentation by you, we may close this and any other accounts you have with Chase.

    A picture of that letter can be seen here:
    The users who received these warning letters all were clear that they felt it tied to support links and I believe a couple may have called in to confirm that. Then, in a somewhat shocking move, one of those folks who received a letter actually had some of their cards shutdown by Chase (presumably for the same activity as there was no other logical reason for the shutdown). It's worth noting though, that in all instances, they did not clawback any rewards.

    How does this tie to CIPpy you may ask? Well it seems that Chase can decide in their sole discretion what they deem to be abuse of their rewards program. Could they decide that repeatedly getting the same card to earn the signup bonus while simultaneously "self-supporting" was an abuse? I certainly think so. It is almost a certainty that this loophole will cease to exist at some point in the future. Nobody can tell you how far away that is, and nobody can tell you what (if any) consequences may occur when it gets shutdown. I will reiterate, that I am not going to stop drinking from CIPpy... But, I am going to try my best to follow some rules to cip safely:
    • I will always do P1=>P2 or P2=>P1 clicks. I know that might not be possible for all (especially those in 1 player mode) but if this is an option, embrace it! Avoiding a true "self-support" click is much more defensible. In the recent Amex clawback debacle, nobody who was supporting via this method experienced any clawback,.
    • Follow your pacing guidelines, don't try to accelerate the timeline and do 1 a month. It's just not worth the risk of getting yourself shutdown on your own.
    • If you want to be paranoid, you may also consider trying to mix up your business type with each application. Perhaps you own multiple successful "businesses" and you purely were pursuing the best small business card on the market for each business...
    Please don't stop drinking from CIPpy because of this comment...just make sure you've weighed all the options and are doing it in the most safe way possible for your situation.

    Additionally, as we are advising new folks on this option, I think it's important that we make sure they understand that this is not without risk. I don't want to spook them, but it's irresponsible as a "DISchurner" adviser to not at least make sure they understand that this is a loophole and (a) could be shutdown and (b) could come with some level of consequence at some point in the future.


    I'm interested to hear anybody else's thoughts on this - even if you're opposed or feel I'm being overly paranoid here...
    I have much deeper thoughts and feelings about this and the recent Amex clawbacks than what I'm going to type. I’ll try to get the gist of this down. I just haven't had much time to write up very many meaningful posts, analyses, or replies, while still keeping up with the conversation and providing at least cursory answers to people's questions. And to be honest, the Amex developments have left me incredibly shaken.

    First and foremost, I want to apologize to everyone who had any MR points clawed back as a result of self-referral. I was the one who brought over the news from r/churning that this was possible last July, and I did it myself and I feel like I set an example for others to follow. While everyone has to consider the risks of whatever they do in this hobby, and assess their own tolerance for that risk, I know we all look to DPs and strategies from both strangers and people we trust to help make our decisions. And if any of you feel like I've steered you wrong, I am truly and deeply sorry.

    I shared the self-referral and cross-referral methods with the intention that this could help folks here earn a lot more points themselves and within their household once they already had one or two Amex cards, instead of settling for public offers or having their clicks go to someone else. I think this succeeded for a time as I, and I'm sure many others, saw a significant drop in their support clicks on Amex cards coming from other DISchurners. Self-referral or cross-referral became the de facto advice on r/churning and here, because if someone wasn't recommending you do it, then they weren't watching out for your interests and likely fishing for your support click. And so everyone was doing it. (I think the fact that MRs cannot be transferred or pooled among spouses or within a household also affected calculations to self-refer rather than refer from P1>P2 or P2>P1.) I’m devastated that this method, in the end, cost some people real money if you paid taxes on points that Amex ultimately took away with no indication how they’re going to fix this mess.

    I can't recall anyone raising any flags that Amex would claw back these support bonuses. Just as I try to relay useful information to this thread, I’m always on the lookout for negative DPs. In late April, we shared a DP from a r/churning claiming that Amex clawed back a self-referral bonus. We advised caution and to wait and see if there were any further DPs of such clawbacks. I waited until June to self-refer to a BBP. There were no more negative DPs, and that report in April appeared to be a one off, perhaps prompted by eyes drawn to the OP's account for other reasons, or maybe the OP was just mistaken. Nothing suggested Amex would go back a year and claw back literally millions of MRs. We should have done better, kept our tinfoil hats on, and always remember Amex's modus operandi. Amex froze accounts and clawed back millions of MR from those who it believed abused the leaked Thanksgiving 2016 100k MR Platinum link. More recently, Amex clawed back the Saks credits from people who returned their purchases – even on closed card accounts, and charged people's cards hundreds of dollars for using multiples of the Staples Amex Offers.

    What Amex giveth, Amex can taketh. It’s a real love/hate relationship with Amex. Amex has some of the biggest and best bonuses, solid co-brand and transfer partners and thus a lot of value to their programs, some cards that are actually worth keeping and putting ongoing category spend on, generous and useful Amex Offers (I’m looking at you Chase and your max $4 back at Rite-Aid), and hands out cards like candy. But Amex is also incredibly high maintenance, sensitive to perceived abuse, and downright schizophrenic. I’m sure all of us could come up with a list of 10 Things I Hate About Amex (h/t @SouthFayetteFan). If Amex thinks you’re not spending enough on them – pop up! Gaming their Amex Offers or credits? Don’t be surprised if Amex charges your statement for returns or refunds on which you got that credit, even if it’s months or more than a year later. The RAT has a long memory. MS their SUB? Bonus denial or clawback. But don’t do enough organic spend so you MS to keep Amex happy? That’s perfectly fine, have some more cards! Glitch holding up your bonus or credits? It’s not our fault, it’s yours! Just keep spending until you hit the bonus! And now the self-referrals…

    You all might not know this from my irreverent chatter on the thread in the past week, but I haven’t felt this low since probably Plastiq 3x died on the CIP. I was a major cheerleader for the CIP, aside from its SUB, and Plastiq because of the ability to actually make money paying your bills. And when Plastiq stopped coding 3x the first time, and then a second time, I know several of you had just paid your bills before the DPs caught up but would only get 1x on the payment and you folks had to eat the fee. Then Chase kept killing all the other things that I happily told you coded 3x on the CIP…

    And now we come to the CIPpy cup. I feel some amount of joy, but also responsibility for bringing news about the CIPpy cup here. I had been monitoring chatter and DPs on r/churning about multiple CIP approvals using only a SSN, but did not share the news until there was confirmation the bonuses were posting. I realized this is a way for us to turbocharge our UR balances, which is probably the favorite currency for most of you, at a time when Chase had killed the DD and imposed 48-month restrictions on the Sapphire cards. Come to think of it, I also shared the MDD.

    All this, as with anything in this hobby, is not without risk. @SouthFayetteFan highlighted many of the risks in his original post. I will add that the Chase could stop refilling the CIPpy cup at any time. Although it’s a general rule that Chase will not approve a card without the bonus attached, Chase could conceivably deny the bonus. I’ve yet to see that on a UR-earning card, but I remember there was chatter about going for the Chase Marriott Biz card before it was discontinued just to hold it for the anniversary FNs, even if you weren’t eligible for the bonus under the fine print restrictions. Chase could, as they did when they were shutting down the Sapphire DD loophole, unilaterally close cards without notice. Personally, I think the risk of this is minimal because you’re not doing a DD with the CIPpy cup, and actual businesses have legitimate reasons for multiples of the same card. I remember seeing an open browser of Tesla Guy’s Chase account with all his cards and spotted several CIPs. But for someone like TPG, who is all about bonus category spend nowadays and spends millions on advertising, it would make sense to have multiple CIPs and BGR/Biz Golds since their bonus categories are capped at $150k/yr. If Chase were to target all their customers with multiples of the same product, they would upset a lot of non-churning clients and businesses. But what if they just targeted those who received SUBs on multiples of the same product within, say, a two-year span. That would also sweep in non-churning clients and businesses with legitimate reasons to hold multiple Ink cards and received bonuses on them. Again, what’s Chase’s modus operandi? Chase isn’t known for clawbacks. I can’t recall ever seeing a DP about a Chase clawback. As I posted recently, Chase’s weapon of choice is a shutdown, whether it be to close specific cards or shut down all card accounts. This is something we typically see in a bust-out situation (due to velocity and balances), the DD purge, or for whatever reason Chase or its affiliates decides to end their relationship with you. I want to be clear, as @SouthFayetteFan already pointed out, in all of these cases Chase never clawed back any points and allowed the customer 30 days to either cash out, redeem it, or transfer the points to a travel partner. (It’s not recommended to transfer points from a shut down account to P2 and risk P2 getting shut down.)

    I’ve discussed Amex and Chase, but there’s also Citi. Many of us are riding the GrAAvy train, but there’s a risk with every application that the bonus won’t post, especially if you’ve used a public link. I can only imagine how terrible @SouthFayetteFan and @speedyfishy must have felt when we discovered public links to the GrAAvy train were a lot more YMMV, without apparent rhyme or reason, after sharing information that they were a way to bypass mailers and possibly save some money.

    @SouthFayetteFan and I, and I’m sure many of the active contributors to this thread share information we come across with only the intention to benefit other members of this community. Personally, I try to vet the information I post, consider the risks and be thorough about explaining it, and I continue to be on the lookout for DPs that say a method has changed, ended, or something else adverse has happened so that I can share that too. But please note that there’s a built-in delay to all DPs, and a DP reported today might have come too late to change something you did yesterday and may not be an accurate predictor of how something works tomorrow. This hobby, its rules, and how the issuers apply those rules are constantly changing. We do our best to keep up and keep you all informed, but we’re not omniscient or infallible. I know we can all be cheerleaders and enablers sometimes, but I have to trust that you consider the benefits and risks as it relates to your own situation, assess your own tolerances, and come to the right decision for you. But please, don't be scared off from this hobby because, I think for almost everyone here, you've notched a lot more wins than losses.

    I know several of you have asked if anyone’s gotten CIP4. I think what they’re looking for is a green light and an all-safe to go ahead and apply for CIP4. I can’t give you that. I don’t think anyone here has gone for CIP4 all with only their SSN, but I also don’t doubt there are folks on r/churning pushing that envelope and beyond. I’ll say under the current way things work, if you go for CIP4, provided you’ve watched your velocity and managed your credit lines, you’ll probably get approved and you’ll likely get your SUB. I can’t make any predictions or assurances what Chase will do with that in the future (maybe nothing!) other than muse about the risks as I did above.

    What does my own strategy look like for the rest of 2019? DW’s CIP3 SUB and the support bonus from my CIP2 just posted this week. DW has two open CIPs from March and June, a CIU from last September, and a CIC from last December. I recently closed my 1+ year old CIC, got approved for CIP3 this week, have an open CIP2 from April, and a sockdrawered Marriott Biz. (Interestingly, I did apply for DW’s and my CIP3 with our FN MI LN and SSN but, as @SouthFayetteFan suggested, with a different business category to at least make a plausible case for different businesses between different CIPs.) With 2 open CIPs each, I’m thinking we’ll both cool off with our CIP apps for the next few months.

    DW is 1/24 and I’m seriously considering referring her from my Biz Plat (20k MR>20k Hilton) to the Hilton Surpass before we cancel her Hilton Biz next month to avoid the AF. That will probably push DW out with Chase, if not for a velocity issue (because, historically, Amex doesn’t report a new personal card until the close of the second statement), then because of juggling the MSRs on several new cards. I was just approved for CIP3, so that’s a $5k MSR in the next 3 months; and I’ve barely made a dent in the Biz Plat upgrade offer for $10k spend in the remaining 4½ months. The Surpass would come with another $4k MSR in 4 months. Then, when DW goes back to Chase, I’m looking at the Hyatt card. At 2/24, another personal card for DW is not a problem. We’ve been meaning to earn some Hyatt points towards a possible Japan redemption so that we don’t have to transfer out of our UR stash, but the CIPpy cup has sidelined those plans. Meanwhile, I’m 4/24 until next spring so I need to stick with biz cards to keep playing in Chase’s playground. I think I’ll have DW refer me from her CIC/CIU to my own CIU, probably in October. That’s a 50k UR SUB and a 15k UR support bonus. Not CIPpy cup money, but also not another open CIP. Afterwards, we’ll probably close DW’s CIU since it will have passed a year. Around the end of the year, I’ll probably refer DW from my CIU to back to CIU2. We’ll see where I am at the end of the year, but I am also eyeing a Hyatt card and that’ll be the card that takes me to 5/24 for a while.
     

    Judique

    Dis Veteran, Beach Lover at BWV, BCV, HHI, VB
    Joined
    Aug 1, 2003
    Just put in my last Sam's order for Disney Gift Cards!

    Newegg order x 2: $200 + $100 + $25 VGCs for $344.85 - $100 from AMEX offers = $489.70 OOP
    Ordered 15 $50 GCs from Sam's for $47.98 each, also had $50 in Walmart GCs from carpool incentive and Microsoft rewards = additional $19.70 OOP

    $509.40 OOP for $750 = 67.9%

    Between that and the Staple's offers from Chase and AMEX my stash has gone from $0 to $1150. And I've got about $45 pending from cashback portals that will go against my total OOP on my GC stash.
    I've got a little over $2K but I'm building my stash to pay for dues in Dec and for food and incidentals on my Nov and Feb upcoming trips. I can always hoard what I get to pay the dues monthly, increasing the collection time, but I prefer to get it done by December. Most has been at 10% off, some at 20% off, like the $5 off $25, and some have been gifts, so free! I'm telling the kids gift cards for Xmas and birthday.

    Oh and adding a senior moment: I picked up $800 in two Lowes trips to finish my Amex offer before it expired. I then forgot about them in the car for a couple of weeks. Lucky for me I found them in the Lowes bag that I at first dropped in my trash can thinking it was car trash.
     
    Last edited:

    Etonduf

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Feb 18, 2019
    I keep my database files (one for clients and one for family) in Dropbox. I use a KeePass app on my phone (Android) and just pull the database from Dropbox. I use MacPass on my Mac. With my setup, I only save passwords on the Windows machine since it's always on and Keepass always running. I have it set to auto-save and update I think so I always have 2 copies of my database, my working file and my untouched file, should anything ever happen.

    I do trust Dropbox and with this file, you have to have the program and my long login to break into it (as far as I know it's not been hacked). I like having it off my computer should the hard drive fail, I still have it. Changing computers was super easy since the database file was already cloud accessible. I actually ended up putting a lot of my files on Dropbox so I can pull them down onto whichever computer I'm working on, no matter where I am. Plus, I have a small Macbook Air with very little space on it.
    This is essentially identical to how I use my KeePass database. Well stated.
     

    georgina

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Apr 21, 2003
    I have much deeper thoughts and feelings about this and the recent Amex clawbacks than what I'm going to type. I’ll try to get the gist of this down. I just haven't had much time to write up very many meaningful posts, analyses, or replies, while still keeping up with the conversation and providing at least cursory answers to people's questions. And to be honest, the Amex developments have left me incredibly shaken.

    First and foremost, I want to apologize to everyone who had any MR points clawed back as a result of self-referral. I was the one who brought over the news from r/churning that this was possible last July, and I did it myself and I feel like I set an example for others to follow. While everyone has to consider the risks of whatever they do in this hobby, and assess their own tolerance for that risk, I know we all look to DPs and strategies from both strangers and people we trust to help make our decisions. And if any of you feel like I've steered you wrong, I am truly and deeply sorry.

    I shared the self-referral and cross-referral methods with the intention that this could help folks here earn a lot more points themselves and within their household once they already had one or two Amex cards, instead of settling for public offers or having their clicks go to someone else. I think this succeeded for a time as I, and I'm sure many others, saw a significant drop in their support clicks on Amex cards coming from other DISchurners. Self-referral or cross-referral became the de facto advice on r/churning and here, because if someone wasn't recommending you do it, then they weren't watching out for your interests and likely fishing for your support click. And so everyone was doing it. (I think the fact that MRs cannot be transferred or pooled among spouses or within a household also affected calculations to self-refer rather than refer from P1>P2 or P2>P1.) I’m devastated that this method, in the end, cost some people real money if you paid taxes on points that Amex ultimately took away with no indication how they’re going to fix this mess.

    I can't recall anyone raising any flags that Amex would claw back these support bonuses. Just as I try to relay useful information to this thread, I’m always on the lookout for negative DPs. In late April, we shared a DP from a r/churning claiming that Amex clawed back a self-referral bonus. We advised caution and to wait and see if there were any further DPs of such clawbacks. I waited until June to self-refer to a BBP. There were no more negative DPs, and that report in April appeared to be a one off, perhaps prompted by eyes drawn to the OP's account for other reasons, or maybe the OP was just mistaken. Nothing suggested Amex would go back a year and claw back literally millions of MRs. We should have done better, kept our tinfoil hats on, and always remember Amex's modus operandi. Amex froze accounts and clawed back millions of MR from those who it believed abused the leaked Thanksgiving 2016 100k MR Platinum link. More recently, Amex clawed back the Saks credits from people who returned their purchases – even on closed card accounts, and charged people's cards hundreds of dollars for using multiples of the Staples Amex Offers.

    What Amex giveth, Amex can taketh. It’s a real love/hate relationship with Amex. Amex has some of the biggest and best bonuses, solid co-brand and transfer partners and thus a lot of value to their programs, some cards that are actually worth keeping and putting ongoing category spend on, generous and useful Amex Offers (I’m looking at you Chase and your max $4 back at Rite-Aid), and hands out cards like candy. But Amex is also incredibly high maintenance, sensitive to perceived abuse, and downright schizophrenic. I’m sure all of us could come up with a list of 10 Things I Hate About Amex (h/t @SouthFayetteFan). If Amex thinks you’re not spending enough on them – pop up! Gaming their Amex Offers or credits? Don’t be surprised if Amex charges your statement for returns or refunds on which you got that credit, even if it’s months or more than a year later. The RAT has a long memory. MS their SUB? Bonus denial or clawback. But don’t do enough organic spend so you MS to keep Amex happy? That’s perfectly fine, have some more cards! Glitch holding up your bonus or credits? It’s not our fault, it’s yours! Just keep spending until you hit the bonus! And now the self-referrals…

    You all might not know this from my irreverent chatter on the thread in the past week, but I haven’t felt this low since probably Plastiq 3x died on the CIP. I was a major cheerleader for the CIP, aside from its SUB, and Plastiq because of the ability to actually make money paying your bills. And when Plastiq stopped coding 3x the first time, and then a second time, I know several of you had just paid your bills before the DPs caught up but would only get 1x on the payment and you folks had to eat the fee. Then Chase kept killing all the other things that I happily told you coded 3x on the CIP…

    And now we come to the CIPpy cup. I feel some amount of joy, but also responsibility for bringing news about the CIPpy cup here. I had been monitoring chatter and DPs on r/churning about multiple CIP approvals using only a SSN, but did not share the news until there was confirmation the bonuses were posting. I realized this is a way for us to turbocharge our UR balances, which is probably the favorite currency for most of you, at a time when Chase had killed the DD and imposed 48-month restrictions on the Sapphire cards. Come to think of it, I also shared the MDD.

    All this, as with anything in this hobby, is not without risk. @SouthFayetteFan highlighted many of the risks in his original post. I will add that the Chase could stop refilling the CIPpy cup at any time. Although it’s a general rule that Chase will not approve a card without the bonus attached, Chase could conceivably deny the bonus. I’ve yet to see that on a UR-earning card, but I remember there was chatter about going for the Chase Marriott Biz card before it was discontinued just to hold it for the anniversary FNs, even if you weren’t eligible for the bonus under the fine print restrictions. Chase could, as they did when they were shutting down the Sapphire DD loophole, unilaterally close cards without notice. Personally, I think the risk of this is minimal because you’re not doing a DD with the CIPpy cup, and actual businesses have legitimate reasons for multiples of the same card. I remember seeing an open browser of Tesla Guy’s Chase account with all his cards and spotted several CIPs. But for someone like TPG, who is all about bonus category spend nowadays and spends millions on advertising, it would make sense to have multiple CIPs and BGR/Biz Golds since their bonus categories are capped at $150k/yr. If Chase were to target all their customers with multiples of the same product, they would upset a lot of non-churning clients and businesses. But what if they just targeted those who received SUBs on multiples of the same product within, say, a two-year span. That would also sweep in non-churning clients and businesses with legitimate reasons to hold multiple Ink cards and received bonuses on them. Again, what’s Chase’s modus operandi? Chase isn’t known for clawbacks. I can’t recall ever seeing a DP about a Chase clawback. As I posted recently, Chase’s weapon of choice is a shutdown, whether it be to close specific cards or shut down all card accounts. This is something we typically see in a bust-out situation (due to velocity and balances), the DD purge, or for whatever reason Chase or its affiliates decides to end their relationship with you. I want to be clear, as @SouthFayetteFan already pointed out, in all of these cases Chase never clawed back any points and allowed the customer 30 days to either cash out, redeem it, or transfer the points to a travel partner. (It’s not recommended to transfer points from a shut down account to P2 and risk P2 getting shut down.)

    I’ve discussed Amex and Chase, but there’s also Citi. Many of us are riding the GrAAvy train, but there’s a risk with every application that the bonus won’t post, especially if you’ve used a public link. I can only imagine how terrible @SouthFayetteFan and @speedyfishy must have felt when we discovered public links to the GrAAvy train were a lot more YMMV, without apparent rhyme or reason, after sharing information that they were a way to bypass mailers and possibly save some money.

    @SouthFayetteFan and I, and I’m sure many of the active contributors to this thread share information we come across with only the intention to benefit other members of this community. Personally, I try to vet the information I post, consider the risks and be thorough about explaining it, and I continue to be on the lookout for DPs that say a method has changed, ended, or something else adverse has happened so that I can share that too. But please note that there’s a built-in delay to all DPs, and a DP reported today might have come too late to change something you did yesterday and may not be an accurate predictor of how something works tomorrow. This hobby, its rules, and how the issuers apply those rules are constantly changing. We do our best to keep up and keep you all informed, but we’re not omniscient or infallible. I know we can all be cheerleaders and enablers sometimes, but I have to trust that you consider the benefits and risks as it relates to your own situation, assess your own tolerances, and come to the right decision for you. But please, don't be scared off from this hobby because, I think for almost everyone here, you've notched a lot more wins than losses.

    I know several of you have asked if anyone’s gotten CIP4. I think what they’re looking for is a green light and an all-safe to go ahead and apply for CIP4. I can’t give you that. I don’t think anyone here has gone for CIP4 all with only their SSN, but I also don’t doubt there are folks on r/churning pushing that envelope and beyond. I’ll say under the current way things work, if you go for CIP4, provided you’ve watched your velocity and managed your credit lines, you’ll probably get approved and you’ll likely get your SUB. I can’t make any predictions or assurances what Chase will do with that in the future (maybe nothing!) other than muse about the risks as I did above.

    What does my own strategy look like for the rest of 2019? DW’s CIP3 SUB and the support bonus from my CIP2 just posted this week. DW has two open CIPs from March and June, a CIU from last September, and a CIC from last December. I recently closed my 1+ year old CIC, got approved for CIP3 this week, have an open CIP2 from April, and a sockdrawered Marriott Biz. (Interestingly, I did apply for DW’s and my CIP3 with our FN MI LN and SSN but, as @SouthFayetteFan suggested, with a different business category to at least make a plausible case for different businesses between different CIPs.) With 2 open CIPs each, I’m thinking we’ll both cool off with our CIP apps for the next few months.

    DW is 1/24 and I’m seriously considering referring her from my Biz Plat (20k MR>20k Hilton) to the Hilton Surpass before we cancel her Hilton Biz next month to avoid the AF. That will probably push DW out with Chase, if not for a velocity issue (because, historically, Amex doesn’t report a new personal card until the close of the second statement), then because of juggling the MSRs on several new cards. I was just approved for CIP3, so that’s a $5k MSR in the next 3 months; and I’ve barely made a dent in the Biz Plat upgrade offer for $10k spend in the remaining 4½ months. The Surpass would come with another $4k MSR in 4 months. Then, when DW goes back to Chase, I’m looking at the Hyatt card. At 2/24, another personal card for DW is not a problem. We’ve been meaning to earn some Hyatt points towards a possible Japan redemption so that we don’t have to transfer out of our UR stash, but the CIPpy cup has sidelined those plans. Meanwhile, I’m 4/24 until next spring so I need to stick with biz cards to keep playing in Chase’s playground. I think I’ll have DW refer me from her CIC/CIU to my own CIU, probably in October. That’s a 50k UR SUB and a 15k UR support bonus. Not CIPpy cup money, but also not another open CIP. Afterwards, we’ll probably close DW’s CIU since it will have passed a year. Around the end of the year, I’ll probably refer DW from my CIU to back to CIU2. We’ll see where I am at the end of the year, but I am also eyeing a Hyatt card and that’ll be the card that takes me to 5/24 for a while.
    We all understand the risks of the game I think. While I understand your feelings, please don't feel bad about bringing opportunities to our attention that later go awry. Your contributions here are very valuable.
     

    amalone1013

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jan 15, 2016
    I've got a little over $2K but I'm building my stash to pay for dues in Dec and for food and incidentals on my Nov and Feb upcoming trips. I can always hoard what I get to pay the dues monthly, increasing the collection time, but I prefer to get it done by December. Most has been at 10% off, some at 20% off, like the $5 off $25, and some have been gifts, so free! I'm telling the kids gift cards for Xmas and birthday.
    For some reason we started getting Disney GCs from BILs for Christmas :rolleyes: They usually do some little thing like a book or movie for each of us and then a joint GC lol. At the beginning of the month I was debating on how quickly I wanted to rebuild the stash, because I am not expecting to renew our APs in September... but then I figured, we just put a placeholder down on the cruise, and if nothing else there's a very good chance DH and I will go on one, soooo we know we'll need a good chunk that :D I usually earn about $50 'free' each month with Swagbucks (may be some paid offers in there though, or buy SB deals) and then $25 truly free from the carpool program and Microsoft rewards.
     

    Haley R

    With all the strength of a raging fire
    Joined
    Sep 3, 2017
    Amex MRs can get you to Japan and if you decide to skip it you can cash them out with the Schwab Plat.



    I’m so bitter I never get good offers to get bumped. I flew every month except one from May 2018-May2019 and had one offer on Southwest for one person when I was flying with my SO and it would have been the next day and they offered like a $100 voucher.
    Dh is completely onboard with going to japan this November. I’ve read online that November is one of the best months to go. I messaged our Airbnb from May and she said they’ll be gone for part of November but she wouldn’t mind if we stayed anyway. It all really comes down to Virgin and if they even have any seats left. Dh even said he wouldn’t mind going to TDR for a day or two (even though before he said he didn’t want to go back).

    I couldn’t believe how much they gave my brother! I’ve never heard that being done
     
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