HOA and Resort Availability

[Sean Denns]

Hello everyone. I am very new at this so I apologize if I am doing something wrong. I have been a DVC member for over 20 years. I have 4 contracts in Boardwalk and Saratoga Springs. I have seen many changes to DVC from the cost of points, Reallocation of points, perks/benefits being taken away and most recently the increase to HOA dues. I guess I would call myself a true middle class person who loves Disney but on a strict income. Though with these cost for HOA dues going up the way they did, if this continues I will not be able to afford them at this rate. Not sure if that is what Disney wants but that could happen soon if this continues.

So I tried to look at the positive and told myself, I still love to use my points and stay at my home resorts or one of the other great ones. But over the past year I have found it very difficult to even find any availability. I have tried to book right on the 11 month window, and my home resorts continue to state "nothing available". I have never had this problem in the past until this past year. So I ask, has DVC over sold at these resort.? Has DVC reduced the number of rooms for DVC members? Every time I am told (even trying to book out 11 months) that there is nothing available but when I call in to book with Cash, its like a miracle and there are plenty of rooms to purchase. I am trying to use my points but I can't. Nothing is ever available for points but always plenty of rooms to pay cash.

I have been a DVC faithful for 20 years but with these HOA cost, Reallocation of Points, perks being taken away (Like Valet parking for an example) and now not even be able to use my points due to nothing available, I am trying to decide is being a DVC member good or not. At this point I am very reluctant even recommend DVC to anyone.

Does anyone have any thoughts or help on any of these topics, especially trying to use my points.

Thanks

Sean Dennis

 

[vacationer1954]

I have tried to book right on the 11 month window, and my home resorts continue to state "nothing available".

At which resort, and which room category?

I always try to Standard View studios at BWV, and I'm running 1 success for every 3 tries, mostly because I work at the time that the 11 month point hits and cannot try to book until late morning.

 

[drusba]

I assume you are talking about BWV and not SSR since I have never seen anything at SSR disappear right at 11 months out. BWV standard view studios have a risk of disappearing right at 8 a.m. eastern at 11 months out (or before), particularly for time between late Sep and marathon weekend in Jan (DVC's high demand season). Those also have some risk to do the same other times of year. Boardwalk view generally has that risk only during that high demand season, and pool/garden view has thus far shown that risk only for the first week of Dec, the highest demand week of the year.

As to the cause, there are several factors that have resulted in the increased demand for BWV studios (and, because all 2BRs are lock-offs, decrease the availability of 2BRs): (a) there are now more owners at BWV whose children are grown and thus they only need studios; (b) standard studios have the lowest points per night and thus have more demand; (c) late Sep to marathon weekend in Jan has steadily increased in demand over the years due to lower nightly point costs, ideal weather, Disney events (Food & Wine, Halloween nights, Christmas decorations and events), and the growth of owners who no longer need to rely on school vacation times to go; (d) total number of members have increased due to many smaller contracts, as a result of previous, low add-on purchases, being sold resale over the years and those purchasers want to use those points only for studios and particularly for stays in that high demand time; and (e) Disney took major moves starting in 2009 to make sure the number of owners increased and studios were greatly "oversold" (although legally) -- it lowered new purchaser point requirements to 100 and 50 at times; it has over the last nine years doubled the purchase price for points, resulting in majority of new purchasers being unable to afford more points than those needed for a studio; and it added a Murphy bed to the studios to allow for five on a reservation; with all those steps resulting in an increase in number of owners and demand for studios.

If you are not aware yet, Disney has now amended its point charts for 2020 to significantly raise the points needed for studios and 1BRs, while lowering them for 2BRs -- in other words it did everything it could in sales activity and addition of the extra bed to cause over-demand of studios and now will be correcting the problem it created by punishing all those who purchased only enough points from Disney to be able to afford studios.

This year, as you have noticed, saw a significant percentage increase in dues. That is due mainly to new union contracts entered into last year which raised the wages of Disney employees, including those who provide services to the resorts. Be aware that you are likely to see additional increases in the next couple years for the same reason because the new contract has more raises coming annually. Also, the Orange County (Orlando area) property taxes keep getting raised and the county now has an assessor who ran and was elected on the promise that he would greatly increase the assessed values of resort properties so companies like Disney, and all us evil owners of resort property, pay higher property taxes.

As to calling in and finding cash rooms available, that is mainly not a real factor causing the problem. DVC retains ownership of portions of the resort and has always been able rent out the applicable room space using points it owns and controls.

 

[Marionnette]

Hello everyone. I am very new at this so I apologize if I am doing something wrong. I have been a DVC member for over 20 years. I have 4 contracts in Boardwalk and Saratoga Springs. I have seen many changes to DVC from the cost of points, Reallocation of points, perks/benefits being taken away and most recently the increase to HOA dues. I guess I would call myself a true middle class person who loves Disney but on a strict income. Though with these cost for HOA dues going up the way they did, if this continues I will not be able to afford them at this rate. Not sure if that is what Disney wants but that could happen soon if this continues.

So I tried to look at the positive and told myself, I still love to use my points and stay at my home resorts or one of the other great ones. But over the past year I have found it very difficult to even find any availability. I have tried to book right on the 11 month window, and my home resorts continue to state "nothing available". I have never had this problem in the past until this past year. So I ask, has DVC over sold at these resort.? Has DVC reduced the number of rooms for DVC members? Every time I am told (even trying to book out 11 months) that there is nothing available but when I call in to book with Cash, its like a miracle and there are plenty of rooms to purchase. I am trying to use my points but I can't. Nothing is ever available for points but always plenty of rooms to pay cash.

I have been a DVC faithful for 20 years but with these HOA cost, Reallocation of Points, perks being taken away (Like Valet parking for an example) and now not even be able to use my points due to nothing available, I am trying to decide is being a DVC member good or not. At this point I am very reluctant even recommend DVC to anyone.

Does anyone have any thoughts or help on any of these topics, especially trying to use my points.

Thanks

Sean Dennis

While I share your disenchantment with DVC's latest barrage of changes and costs, as a fellow BWV owner, I dispute the claim that nothing is available right at 11 months. The only issue that I have ever encountered has been getting a Standard View studio or 2BR. Even the first two weeks of Dec 2019 (an unusually high-demand time) had G/P View rooms available for several days beyond the 11-month mark. Right now, I can see G/P studios available from 12/13 thru 12/27, well within the 11-month window.

I'm not sure how you are logging into your account (android, iOS, laptop or PC), but you might want to clear your cache if the problem persists. Disney IT can be quirky.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I also have to say, I have never once seen anything at Saratoga sell out on opening day of booking. Not once. Not ever.

 

[Deb & Bill]

We bought OKW almost 22 years ago. We never have any problem booking OKW at 11 months out or less. Of course, we usually book one bedroom villas. I've booked GFV and Kidani Village one bedroom villas at seven months out. I've also got BCV booked in a one bedroom for May. Not any problems booking. If you are trying to book a standard studio at Christmas time at BWV, it may be harder to do. Have you not used your points for years or something?

 

[GrumpyInPhilly]

Welcome to DISboards!

 

[bumbershoot]

I hope you aren’t giving at 11 months out and not trying. People change reservations all the time.

Disney has now amended its point charts for 2020 to significantly raise the points needed for studios and 1BRs, while lowering them for 2BRs -- in other words it did everything it could in sales activity and addition of the extra bed to cause over-demand of studios and now will be correcting the problem it created by punishing all those who purchased only enough points from Disney to be able to afford studios.

Ah, Disney’s legendary inability to see what their advertising will do down the road.

 

[Sean Denns]

I have very much appreciated everyone's input and thoughts. Since I am on my 21st year as a DVC member and I can see many want to keep supporting just as I have for many years justifying why Disney/DVC does what they do. I completely understand its a business and they want to make money and they have to look at a cost/benefit. I would ask DVC to just explain that when they try to sell more points. I have convinced many people to join over the years on the premise which came from Disney sales associates that HOA fees would be reasonable and if you buy points based upon a studio during peak time with maybe a few extra pts then you would always be able to stay a week in a studio. Now that appears to not be the case. So if someone wants to stay a week they need to purchase more points at a higher cost. Not a bad sales ploy but still unfortunate for those people. I am not in that boat yet but I could be some day. My points definitely do not go as far as they use to.

To answer another persons question who has never had an issue booking 11 months out BWV. Maybe I am just real bad at it but again I have been doing this for over 20 years. Not until this past year (3 times, Nov 2018, Dec 2018 and Jan 2019) once on line and twice by phone that everything was booked up. No matter what I picked. I use to be able to book out 8 to 9 months and usually never had issues ( I am just referring to my Board Walk points). I use my points every year and usually have to borrow the next year. I actually thought I was pretty good at booking reservations but it appears I am doing something wrong which would not be the first time.

I ask this group other then our 10% discount we get at some stores and for now, no charge for parking at a DVC resort what are the benefits anymore? (We use to have Valet, other great discounts etc). Your value of your points are dropping, (and the value is truly dropping even if they are dropping the points for a 2 bedroom), HOA Fees are going up at double digit percentages and will continue, more difficult to book/find availability, (Disney has over sold some areas) and cost of points are now at $188.00 and rising. I am not sure if being a DVC member is worth it or affordable if these cost and values keep going up. If you just look at the numbers. yes there is still some benefit compared to cost but if someone just had a week worth of points that they were able to afford 10 years ago and now they will not in 2020, try to explain to them why it's okay. I know I can't.

Thanks again to everyone. I have much to think about and go back to the drawing board and see why I keep struggling with booking 11 months out.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I have very much appreciated everyone's input and thoughts. Since I am on my 21st year as a DVC member and I can see many want to keep supporting just as I have for many years justifying why Disney/DVC does what they do. I completely understand its a business and they want to make money and they have to look at a cost/benefit. I would ask DVC to just explain that when they try to sell more points. I have convinced many people to join over the years on the premise which came from Disney sales associates that HOA fees would be reasonable and if you buy points based upon a studio during peak time with maybe a few extra pts then you would always be able to stay a week in a studio. Now that appears to not be the case. So if someone wants to stay a week they need to purchase more points at a higher cost. Not a bad sales ploy but still unfortunate for those people. I am not in that boat yet but I could be some day. My points definitely do not go as far as they use to.

To answer another persons question who has never had an issue booking 11 months out BWV. Maybe I am just real bad at it but again I have been doing this for over 20 years. Not until this past year (3 times, Nov 2018, Dec 2018 and Jan 2019) once on line and twice by phone that everything was booked up. No matter what I picked. I use to be able to book out 8 to 9 months and usually never had issues ( I am just referring to my Board Walk points). I use my points every year and usually have to borrow the next year. I actually thought I was pretty good at booking reservations but it appears I am doing something wrong which would not be the first time.

I ask this group other then our 10% discount we get at some stores and for now, no charge for parking at a DVC resort what are the benefits anymore? (We use to have Valet, other great discounts etc). Your value of your points are dropping, (and the value is truly dropping even if they are dropping the points for a 2 bedroom), HOA Fees are going up at double digit percentages and will continue, more difficult to book/find availability, (Disney has over sold some areas) and cost of points are now at $188.00 and rising. I am not sure if being a DVC member is worth it or affordable if these cost and values keep going up. If you just look at the numbers. yes there is still some benefit compared to cost but if someone just had a week worth of points that they were able to afford 10 years ago and now they will not in 2020, try to explain to them why it's okay. I know I can't.

Thanks again to everyone. I have much to think about and go back to the drawing board and see why I keep struggling with booking 11 months out.

We also own points at BWV and at the very least it's pretty rare to not have pool/garden view studios available at 11 months. The particular times you are trying to book will make a difference. The first 8-10 days in December will have difficulties. It will be almost impossible to get a Standard view studio and even a Boardwalk view. Pool/garden view probably should have been possible right at 8am online. November - the Wine and Dine race weekend will be difficult and Jersey week - but I noticed that the Wine and Dine had availability for a bit. And January - other than the Marathon weekend also should be fairly easy for at least pool/garden view and probably Boardwalk view too. Standard view is iffy just because people really recognize what a good value it is.

You definitely are booking right at 11 months from your check in date? At 8am eastern if booking online?

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Points Disney is selling right now have only a limited impact on your ability to book your home resort. Only BWV owners can book 11-8 months out.

While some recent buyers may be buying smaller contracts, putting more pressure on studio bookings, as a points timeshare Disney have never promised even demand year round, and have always had contract clauses about that.

Your dues are still much cheaper than booking a room at their cash rates at equivalent resorts on property.

It may very well be that as DVC evolves and your life also changes it is not a good fit for you.

 

[snappy]

I too own at BWV. We typically go early February, mid May, or mid October. I made my first December reservation a few days ago. I wanted BW view studio. I found I had to have my request in and ready to hit the refresh button. I didn’t realize this the first day so the only thing left was a standard view 1 bedroom. I did this every morning day by day for length of stay (11 nights) and later was able to cancel the standard view 1 bedroom and add a BW view studio. It was a true pain. I did not know or understand the walking process so I had to call MS twice to combine and the other days I modified my existing reservation to add a night but right at 8:00 am. Literally refreshing right when 7:59 am became 8:00 am. Even then there was no availability and I had to keep trying throughout the day. It took in my opinion an inordinate amount of time and effort. But I guess that is what is required to get a studio BW view in December at this point with DVC. Between walkers and spec renters and Disney selling small contracts, here we are. I suspect that the scheduled Star Wars attractions opening figures into this as well but I have nothing to gauge that as this is my first time trying for a December BW view studio. I understand that standard view studio would be even more difficult. If I want this time frame next year, I recognize I will have to go through this same process and I will do so but I am not happy about it. It’s the new normal but not what I expected. I have the time to do this at 7 am CST, I can imagine some can’t or won’t, but since the competition is fierce, I guess many likewise make the investment in time, effort, and aggravation.

 

[drusba]

I have very much appreciated everyone's input and thoughts. Since I am on my 21st year as a DVC member and I can see many want to keep supporting just as I have for many years justifying why Disney/DVC does what they do. I completely understand its a business and they want to make money and they have to look at a cost/benefit. I would ask DVC to just explain that when they try to sell more points. I have convinced many people to join over the years on the premise which came from Disney sales associates that HOA fees would be reasonable and if you buy points based upon a studio during peak time with maybe a few extra pts then you would always be able to stay a week in a studio. Now that appears to not be the case. So if someone wants to stay a week they need to purchase more points at a higher cost. Not a bad sales ploy but still unfortunate for those people. I am not in that boat yet but I could be some day. My points definitely do not go as far as they use to.

To answer another persons question who has never had an issue booking 11 months out BWV. Maybe I am just real bad at it but again I have been doing this for over 20 years. Not until this past year (3 times, Nov 2018, Dec 2018 and Jan 2019) once on line and twice by phone that everything was booked up. No matter what I picked. I use to be able to book out 8 to 9 months and usually never had issues ( I am just referring to my Board Walk points). I use my points every year and usually have to borrow the next year. I actually thought I was pretty good at booking reservations but it appears I am doing something wrong which would not be the first time.

I ask this group other then our 10% discount we get at some stores and for now, no charge for parking at a DVC resort what are the benefits anymore? (We use to have Valet, other great discounts etc). Your value of your points are dropping, (and the value is truly dropping even if they are dropping the points for a 2 bedroom), HOA Fees are going up at double digit percentages and will continue, more difficult to book/find availability, (Disney has over sold some areas) and cost of points are now at $188.00 and rising. I am not sure if being a DVC member is worth it or affordable if these cost and values keep going up. If you just look at the numbers. yes there is still some benefit compared to cost but if someone just had a week worth of points that they were able to afford 10 years ago and now they will not in 2020, try to explain to them why it's okay. I know I can't.

Thanks again to everyone. I have much to think about and go back to the drawing board and see why I keep struggling with booking 11 months out.

As to current perks, the merchandise discount you mentioned is one and it actually applies to almost all stores now at WDW. Others include: (a) a discount on Annual Passes (about 15% discount on the Premium or Premium Plus and the ability to buy the Gold pass at lower cost which excludes two weeks around Easter and two weeks around Christmas): (b) we can still park free at the resorts when staying on points (Disney has adopted a daily fee for parking for cash guests); (c) about a 25% discount at the golf courses and a discount for mini-golf; (d) there are number of restaurant discounts, mostly 10% and you can purchase the Tables in Wonderland card for $150 and get 20% off at almost all restaurants at WDW including for alcohol; (d) moonlight magic nights for members and their guests (similar to what used to be after hours at the parks for all resort guests which hardly exist at all anymore); (e) discounts on the waterparks and various recreational activities; (f) ability to use points for Disney hotels and cruises (although points needed are high); (g) use of a member lounge at Epcot and use of the TOWL (the bar at the top of Bay Lake Tower). Probably some others I am just not recalling now.

Those perks are actually more than existed 20 years ago, e.g., there were no park ticket discounts in 1999 except for the tail end of the OKW perk that allowed the earlier purchasers to enter the of the parks without charge. But I too sometimes pine for those "good old days" when I could get a Boardwalk standard studio or 2BR within 7 months out most times of year.

Also, Disney in the last 9 years has been on the attack against resale purchasers, and in a series of announcements over the years has essentially taken away almost all the perks from resale purchasers. Also, a new one just recently came to create a trifecta for recent depressing changes -- of which the dues increase and new 2020 point charts were the first two of the trifecta. Disney announced that resale purchasers of the existing resorts, who purchase after Jan 19, 2019, will not be allowed to reserve at any of the new resorts that will open in the future, beginning with Riviera. They will be limited to reserving the existing resorts. Moreover, future resale purchasers of the new resorts will be limited to reserving only their home resort (calling into serious question the believed mantra that one should buy where you want to stay most, if you want to reserve any decent resale value).

 

[Marionnette]

To answer another persons question who has never had an issue booking 11 months out BWV. Maybe I am just real bad at it but again I have been doing this for over 20 years. Not until this past year (3 times, Nov 2018, Dec 2018 and Jan 2019) once on line and twice by phone that everything was booked up. No matter what I picked. I use to be able to book out 8 to 9 months and usually never had issues ( I am just referring to my Board Walk points). I use my points every year and usually have to borrow the next year. I actually thought I was pretty good at booking reservations but it appears I am doing something wrong which would not be the first time.

I don't think you're necessarily "bad" at booking. You've done it successfully for many years. I think that the competition has increased with the number of small add on contracts that went into resale. When BWV opened, you had to purchase a minimum number of points for your initial contract. Resale buyers could purchase as little as 25 points if they could find such a contract on the market. And those owners bought with Std. View studios during low-point times in mind. There are a lot of owners out there with very small contracts and you're competing with them!

Also, what worked in the past just isn't as successful today. The online booking tool makes it possible for a large number of owners to attempt to get their reservation made without making a phone call. If you're waiting to call MS at 9:00 AM EST, you've most likely missed the boat on the highly-coveted villas. Some people will watch the atomic clock tick down to 8:00 AM EST and have the website open and ready to click on the last step rapidly. And even then, it will depend on how efficiently your internet and device communicate with Disney's.

I missed out on getting a Std. View studio for early Dec. 2019. I booked a G/P View, which was still available, and I put in a wait list for Std. View. However, I was still able to get what I wanted...one night at a time ...by stalking the website and picking up available nights as they appeared. Like @snappy , I'm not very happy with the way I had to do it. But such is the nature of the beast when you are dealing with a point-based system.

 

[Deb & Bill]

The biggest part of the dues increase for 2019 was for wage increases for staff. Disney has decided to raise the starting wages and, thus, raise all wages to keep in line with starting wage increases. I'd expect to see a bit higher dues next year as they continue to raise wages.

As for overselling, it would be illegal for Disney to oversell the resorts. You just are getting more competition from renters wanting the same time you want and paying a premium to book those stays. DVC has always permitted members renting their points, so that is nothing new. But the rise of point brokers and being more public about renting is new.

 

[crisi]

The biggest part of the dues increase for 2019 was for wage increases for staff. Disney has decided to raise the starting wages and, thus, raise all wages to keep in line with starting wage increases. I'd expect to see a bit higher dues next year as they continue to raise wages.

As for overselling, it would be illegal for Disney to oversell the resorts. You just are getting more competition from renters wanting the same time you want and paying a premium to book those stays. DVC has always permitted members renting their points, so that is nothing new. But the rise of point brokers and being more public about renting is new.

Wanting the same room size, too. As was mentioned, the proliferation of small contracts has really increased the demand for studios - with standard view studios at the Boardwalk being some of the hardest hit.