History question: Why are 1-bedrooms "priced" so high?

[Dean]

When we first bought in at OKW 1-bdrms were 2.5 times higher points requirements than studios. DVC has keep up with this points difference as new resorts were added. Then DVC has adjusted as needed to even out the bookings, to ensure all rooms are booked every night.

Maybe in a specific situation but they've always been around double more or less and they've never adjusted that portions.

 

[BillPA]

If you just want to pack a room at a low cast, stay at the All Stars or Pop Resorts, isn't that why Disney built them, for those that don't want to spend to have a nice unit, just a place to stay?

 

[PaintsWithAllTheColors]

Like everyone else, I can't tell you why Disney does this, but I can tell you why we'd consider doing a 1 bedroom. Most of our trips, it'll be my husband and I, so a studio is totally fine. We're a young couple with no kids so we're set. However, we do have friends that we'd like to take with us. For us, a one-bedroom would sort of work as a two-bedroom, especially the new one-bedrooms that have 2 bathrooms. We could take the actual bedroom, our friends (either another couple or a few single friends, depending on the year) could take the living space and the extra bathroom. We might consider just getting 2 studios at that point, but in my opinion, if I'm paying for 2 studios, I might as well just get the 1 bedroom and at least benefit from the full jacuzzi tub and kitchen option! My husband loves to cook so it'd be nice to give him the option.

 

[ziravan]

The pricing differential might be something that current members notice as significant (and I do), but it's not likely to be reallocated.

DVC is selling points at $176/point and they've lowered minimum purchase over time from 160 to 50. They are going after the studio market.

The increased demand for studios is in part due to DVC's current selling strategy: more contracts of fewer points.

If DVC were to reallocate, that would help many current owners (and theoretically hurt many too), but it would come at the cost of new buyers. Such a reallocation would make studios more expensive and that would make it more difficult to close the deal for buyers trying to get into studios.

And. If DVC were to reallocate this? What kind of social media feedback would DVC get from thousands of buyers who cobbled together points for studios that are now 20% more expensive? How would that affect future sales?

What DVC should have done and Poly was the perfect place to do so, is create a superstudio hybrid between studios and 1BRs that have W/D and minikitchens at 1.5x cost of studios. I think I figured out once that if they had done that at Poly for all studios, they couid have made something like $44 million extra in points at their opening sales price for maybe $5 million in extra build out, and on a similar footprint.

Don't look for a reallocation anytime soon. Not while new sales is so focused on studio-only sized contracts.

 

[DenLo]

I'm doubting they do so but I feel it would be the best option. Even if they did, I wouldn't expect enough of a move to make 1 BR more difficult than studios, they're goal (and mine) would be to even out the demand which by the way they are contractually required to do is the demand is too far off. There would still be a large gap, just not as large and it wouldn't affect the 2 BR much or at all. A 10% decrease in 1 BR would raise the studios roughly 20%.

We are staying at BRV in studio right now. It is 15/18 points a night currently. If you increased the studio points by 20% it would mean that a guest would spend roughly 21 points more a week for studio here. Unlike the big reallocation evening out weekdays and weekends the total weekly rate really didn't change or if it did it was only a few points. This change is ridiculously high.

Plus each club member is eligible to book a room time at a minimum amount at some point each year. For example at BLT,

. . . each Club Member will be always eligible reserve at lease one Use day in a Studio Vacation Home for 16 Home Resort Vacation Points, subject availability . . . at least one Use day in a One-BedroomVacation Home for Points for 39 Home Resort Vacation Points;

 

[Dean]

We are staying at BRV in studio right now. It is 15/18 points a night currently. If you increased the studio points by 20% it would mean that a guest would spend roughly 21 points more a week for studio here. Unlike the big reallocation evening out weekdays and weekends the total weekly rate really didn't change or if it did it was only a few points. This change is ridiculously high.

IMO the current break between studios and 1 BR is more ridiculous than such a reallocation could end up with the studios but I know there will be different view points.

Plus each club member is eligible to book a room time at a minimum amount at some point each year. For example at BLT,

For sake of discussion, I don't have BLT's or BR POS but for BWV it's broken down by view, 15 standard and 18 preferred. BWV is currently 10 & 15 so one could potentially change by 50% and 20% respectively and be within the rules. Also, as they've proven previously with reallocations (more than 20% total), there are ways around this. One way would be to change Adventure to a smaller window and match the rules you reference. If BLT just lists 16 and doesn't reference view type, then it'd be even easier. Raise Adventure standard view to 16 (from 14) and take a similar approach with other villa sizes then you could change everything else within the reallocations rules.

 

[skier_pete]

Thanks for all the replies, this is a good conversation.

Except for Poly because of the bungalows, and potentially now CCV because of the cabins, the total points that can be sold at each WDW DVC resort and applicable to each room were determined mainly by the square footage of the rooms. For example, at BWV each GV was assigned 34,696 saleble points, a 2BR 17340, a 1BR 11,548, and a studio 5792. Thus, a GV was assigned about double the points of a 2BR, about three times the points of a 1BR, and about 6 times the points of a studio. The relationship of the square footage of those rooms is the same, i.e., the approximately 2142 sq. ft. GV is about double the size the 1071 sq ft 2BR, tripple the size of the 712 sq ft 1BR, and 6 times the size of the studio..

But - that is sort of to my point, a 1-bedroom is twice the square footage of a studio, and a 2-bedroom is 3 times that of a studio. However, typically, a 1-bedroom COSTS 2.1- 2.2 times a studio, but a 2-bedroom is only 2.5-2,7 times a studio. Meaning, that 2-bedrooms are a much greater "value" than the 1-bedrooms.

After you go a few times with 2 adults and 2 children in a studio, which we did a lot early on, you will not see the 1-bdr as a lot of points. Having the full kitchen, large living area, large MBR, better balcony, and 2 bathrooms in the newer ones is worth it to us. You can save a bundle just on having a few meals in the kitchen.

My wife and I go kid-free many times now, and we still get a 1-bdr.

mac_tlc

I am sure that lots of people prefer the 1-bedrooms and pay for them, and if we had more points we might consider it to, but I was looking at this because we were thinking of going with another couple, and I was looking at a 1-bedroom, but then I realized it would cost me MORE to get a 1-bedroom than to get two studios, and with two couples we would be happier with each having our own beds and our own bathrooms, so in this case it would be both cheaper and more effective for our group. To me, the kitchen is nice, but we mostly don't cook at Disney, so it really doesn't get much use except for the occasional breakfast.

Perhaps DVD has been trying to entice those more conscious of value since not everyone is willing to shell out for 1 bedrooms? For those who might otherwise not consider or "afford" DVC, being able to squeeze 5 into a studio is an attractive option.

LAX

One thing I would like to see Disney do, especially since they are putting so many studios with 5, is really EVERY 1-bedroom should be able to sleep 5. I know a lot of people have commented on it, but I CAN'T believe the new Copper Creek 1-bedrooms don't sleep 5. How much more does a sleeper chair cost than a regular chair? It's dumb of them to do. I mean, it does seem like all the 1-bedrooms get rented (except maybe at SSR) but having them be so much more money yet provide room for less people seems really poor planning.

 

[DenLo]

Aren't the villas with studios that have 5 beds are the ones at WDW that cannot have a 1BR bed five guests? That way all of the resorts at WDW can sleep five somewhere?

 

[skier_pete]

Aren't the villas with studios that have 5 beds are the ones at WDW that cannot have a 1BR bed five guests? That way all of the resorts at WDW can sleep five somewhere?

I looked that up once, SSR is the only one that doesn't list 5 in either studios or 1-bedrooms, and also the new Copper Creek doesn't.

 

[DebbieB]

One thing I would like to see Disney do, especially since they are putting so many studios with 5, is really EVERY 1-bedroom should be able to sleep 5. I know a lot of people have commented on it, but I CAN'T believe the new Copper Creek 1-bedrooms don't sleep 5. How much more does a sleeper chair cost than a regular chair? It's dumb of them to do. I mean, it does seem like all the 1-bedrooms get rented (except maybe at SSR) but having them be so much more money yet provide room for less people seems really poor planning.

I don't think it's the cost of the chair. It's just that there isn't room with both pulled out, taking into consideration the lockoff door. There has to be enough room for people to get out in case of a fire, not having these pullouts open next to each other.

 

[drusba]

But - that is sort of to my point, a 1-bedroom is twice the square footage of a studio, and a 2-bedroom is 3 times that of a studio. However, typically, a 1-bedroom COSTS 2.1- 2.2 times a studio, but a 2-bedroom is only 2.5-2,7 times a studio. Meaning, that 2-bedrooms are a much greater "value" than the 1-bedrooms.

What I was explaining is that total points for each room that could be sold were based on square footage. That thus became the starting basis for setting up the point charts, i.e., when, like at BWV the 1BR was twice the size of the studio, the starting point for determining actual points on the point chart was having the 1BR double that of the studio and the 2BR tripple. They then made some adjustments to the point charts for other reasons. One of those was actually to have total usable points in a year to be less than it would take to fill all the rooms for the entire year under normal circumstances. The point charts are set up so that the actual total points applicable to a resort are what it would take to fill all the rooms for the year if the 2BR lock-offs were reserved throughout the year only as 2BR lock-offs. The combined points it takes to reserve a studio and 1BR separately is usually more than what it takes to reserve a two bedroom. Thus, having a lot of separate studio and 1BR reservations actually increases the total availability for the year to greater than the total points applicable to the resort, a factor that favors members beyond what is legally required. In other words, a conscious decison was apparently made to have the 2BR be fewer total points than the combination of the studio and 1BR to favor creating more total availability in a year than total saleable points.

Also, your suggested percentages do not actually hold up at every resort. For example, at OKW, the 1BRs are actually about 2.7 times the size of studio, a 2BR is about 3.6 times a studio, and the 2BR is about 1.4 times the size of 1BR. The point charts indicate a 1BR typically costs only 2.1X the studio, while a 2BR is 2.4X the studio points and 1.4X the 1BR points (meaning the 2BR points are proportional via room size to the 1BR). Thus, in making the adjustments to allow the 2BRs to be less than the combination of studio and 1BR, DVC actually increased the studios and not the 1BRs from what was indicated by a square footage proportional spread. The same is indicated at BLT: the 1BR is 2.4X the size of a studio, and the 2BR 3.4X the size of the studio and 1.3X the size of a 1BR; the point charts show the 1BR is either a tad less or a tad more than double the cost of a stduio and the 2BR is typically about 1.3X the cost of the 1BR, indicating as with OKW that when adjusting from the square foot point basis to get the 2BR to cost less than the combination of 1BR and studio, DVC allocated greater points to the studios and not the 1BRs. At BWV, VWL, and BCV, they just allocated more points to both the 1BRs and studios to make them more than the 2BRs but keeping the 1BR, which was about double the size of the studio, at about double the points of the studios.

Bottom line, based on the square foot total point allocation, is that in setting up the point charts, DVC made the 2BRs less costly, and for some of the resorts (like BWV, BCV and VWL), made both the studios and 1BRs proportionally more expensive than the square foot model, and actually made only the studios at OKW and BLT more expensive than their square foot value. In other words, What Disney actually did was make the 2BRs a "bargain" in relation to the studios at OKW and BLT but not in relation to the 1BRs, and in relation to both the studios and 1BRs at BWV, BCV and VWL.

 

[ziravan]

I know every time I seriously look at 1brs the following thought creeps persistently into my head, "If I'm going to go that far, for a little more I can book a 2br."

 

[LAX]

I know every time I seriously look at 1brs the following thought creeps persistently into my head, "If I'm going to go that far, for a little more I can book a 2br."

If DVD were indeed focusing on the studio crowd, then reallocating points upward on the studios would be unlikely. However, it would at least make some sense to even out the differences between 1 and 2-bedrooms. Drop a point or two on the 1-bedrooms and raise a little on the 2 bedrooms. This won't affect the studio crowd while making a 1 bedroom a bit more affordable.

LAX

 

[Dean]

If DVD were indeed focusing on the studio crowd, then reallocating points upward on the studios would be unlikely. However, it would at least make some sense to even out the differences between 1 and 2-bedrooms. Drop a point or two on the 1-bedrooms and raise a little on the 2 bedrooms. This won't affect the studio crowd while making a 1 bedroom a bit more affordable.

LAX

They really can't do that at the resorts that, esp at the points that don't have dedicated studios & 1 BR because the legal points are tied to the 2 BR. I believe they'd have to raise the raise the studio to do so unless there were dedicated smaller villas. They could potentially lower both the 1 & 2 BR but likely only at the resorts that had 3BR villas. And then there's the Poly where they likely should lower the 2 BR and thus raise the studios.

 

[BillPA]

I for one am tired of DVC fooling around with the points, and making changes to the interior of the units. We have seen 3 points changes, a major change in banking rules and every time they remodel you have to go out side to tell which resort you're in. I'm sorry so many didn't know what the purchased, but those of us that did know and understand the rules are getting fed up with all the changes. JMHO

 

[bwvBound]

Another way to look at this question: Why does the studio accommodate as many people as it does?

My other points-based timeshare only allows 2 people in a studio. So while the 1BR is a big leap up in points, it also increases the room occupancy 2x or better. That, to me, makes good sense. I would rather DVC change the occupancy limits between the studio and 1BR designations to steer families towards 1BR and 2BR units.

 

[CaliAdventurer]

I wonder how many DVC points have been sold because A) folks need more than a studio to begin with B) folks realize that they need a home resort they really want to stay at because an equivalent point option at 7 mos elsewhere isn't a given or C) folks need more points to book bigger rooms either for guests or because of supply. There's "fair" there's "logical" and then there's capitalism.

 

[PaintsWithAllTheColors]

I for one am tired of DVC fooling around with the points, and making changes to the interior of the units. We have seen 3 points changes, a major change in banking rules and every time they remodel you have to go out side to tell which resort you're in. I'm sorry so many didn't know what the purchased, but those of us that did know and understand the rules are getting fed up with all the changes. JMHO

Could you help me understand this a little better? My understanding was that they couldn't change the # of points needed for a room, just the times of year that cost more/less. I'm not an owner quite yet but hope to be soon so I was wondering if you could clarify. What are the major changes they've done and what are they allowed to do as far as reallocating points?

 

[CarolynFH]

Could you help me understand this a little better? My understanding was that they couldn't change the # of points needed for a room, just the times of year that cost more/less. I'm not an owner quite yet but hope to be soon so I was wondering if you could clarify. What are the major changes they've done and what are they allowed to do as far as reallocating points?

They can't change the total number of points needed to book the entire resort in the course of a year, but they can and have adjusted the number of points needed to book a different room at different times of the year. For instance when we bought in 1997, weekends cost a lot more points than weekdays. So the demand for Sunday through Thursday night was very high, while demand for Friday and Saturday nights was significantly less. After a few years the points were reallocated so that weekend nights cost less and weekday nights cost more than they had originally.

 

[LisaS]

Another thing they have done in the past is reclassify some rooms from one view category to another. For example, at AKV some Savanna View rooms were reclassified as Standard View due to complaints that some savanna-facing rooms have a limited view of the savanna. To compensate, they raised the price of other rooms. For example, the price of a one-week stay in a Savanna View 1BR went up across the board if I remember correctly.