Google has been collecting health data on millions of Americans

Should an individual’s data be their property and thus their permission needed for it to be used by anyone else? Or is that too restrictive?

I receive privacy info every time I go to a doctor. I suggest reading their privacy policies.

Of course, we live in a time, where everyone puts all of their info on social media.
 
I really hate google
Why just Google? They just get the headlines because of name recognition. Credit card companies Mastercard, Visa and American Express sell your real-time credit card transactions. Banks sell your bank transaction data. And companies like Envestnet-Yodlee aggregate it all together and resell it to whoever is willing to pay for insights into your financial life.
 


Why just Google? They just get the headlines because of name recognition. Credit card companies Mastercard, Visa and American Express sell your real-time credit card transactions. Banks sell your bank transaction data. And companies like Envestnet-Yodlee aggregate it all together and resell it to whoever is willing to pay for insights into your financial life.

I don’t like them either, but I don’t worry that much about my financial life— I mean I do, but I don’t expect as much privacy with that. I can avoid Facebook by just not being on it, which I am not. But google— they are hard to avoid. And they are particularly intrusive. If you use google docs for example, they “own” everything you do on there. And increasingly schools use google docs. They also own your email. I have switched to iCloud email for that reason. But a lot of services tell you to use chrome. Google is just everywhere.
 
I don't have a lot of time today, but I'll try to address some of the recent posts.

I think, having worked in the medical field and hospitals for over 35 years now, that we need to recognize there is a difference between technology and medical knowledge and experience. The best medical knowledge we have comes from practitioners themselves, and researchers, and medical schools, etc. Medical software can be an enhancement, but it doesn't even come close to being enough by itself (and can often be a burden - see articles below). Along with technology, medical knowledge has come a long way in the time I've been practicing. Few would deny that they go hand in hand. But good old-fashioned research and experience is a very big part of it, as well.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2666717
I'll take a moment to interject here that medical personnel are getting burnt out and leaving the field since the institution of electronic medical documentation (originally designed for billing and other QI coding) in the past decade or so. Why? For physicians, because it's added an average of two hours a day to their workload, often at home, on their off time, to complete their required documentation on very complex systems that aren't always very user friendly. So far, doctors are the only ones who've been studied; they haven't gotten to nurses and other healt professionals yet. It is very challenging day after day to try to give physical and every other type of care to very sick and (understandably) needy people and keep up with documentation that's required on every body system, safety, pain levels, emotional status, and a whole bunch of other things. All of this is being looked at now, but it is recognized as a crisis in healthcare.

http://www.massmed.org/news-and-publications/mms-news-releases/physician-burnout-report-2018/
Someone mentioned we all sign HIPAA forms. I believe most of those are telling consumers their information will be protected unless under very specific circumstances, but I would have to re-read, unless anyone else can comment on that.

So back to Project Nightingale, i.e. the name of Google's undertaking.

As I mentioned in the OP this information is just coming out, and there is a brand new federal investigation underway now, so day to day we may be getting new information as it's discovered. But from what I can tell, this isn't so much a project that will benefit all of us consumers, necessarily, but one that will benefit Google, and, if I'm correct, push us that much more toward socialized medicine - whether we want it or not. Why?

Well, looking at what we know right now:

The data sharing includes patient names and their dates of birth, along with doctor diagnoses, lab results, and hospitalization records, amounting to access to complete electronic health records. Also included in the data sharing are addresses of the patient, family members, allergies, immunizations, radiology scans, medications, and medical conditions.

After the patient checks in to the doctor's office, or hospital, or senior center - the doctor and nurse examination results are entered into a computer. The data then instantly streams to Google’s "Project Nightingale". At this point, the system is then used to suggest treatment plans, recommend replacement or removal of a doctor from the patient's health-care team, and administer policies on narcotics. Ascension, the company sharing data with Google, may also vary their billing according to treatment or procedures.[1]

Patients and doctors have not been apprised. Medical ethics and technical questions have been raised. 150 Google employees are allowed to access much of the data on millions patients. The project is controversial because Google has paid large fines for violating privacy laws."


I recognize that some see this as a good thing, and I think it's something that should be talked about. But doing it in secrecy, through the back door, without involving physicans or consumers, is simply bad practice, and should evoke questions of intent for all of us that are consumers of healthcare in the US.
 


Trusting Apple while distrusting Google just doesn't make sense to me. They're all the same.
Apple doesn’t sell the data in your email. They also give you pages (I.e. like google docs) when you purchase a computer. They do not “own” what you write in it. Apple’s entire business model is based on an individual ‘s right to privacy and right to his or her own data. When you purchase an apple iphone, they do not preload it with apps that track you that you cannot take off. You also have to approve each app you add for whether and when it can track. It was apple that refused to open an iPhone for the police and went to court over it. Apple is expensive, but if you care about privacy, apple is pretty much the only big company that cares. Google owns everything you do on their system. Apple charges you up front and says we will not sell your data.
 
I don't have a lot of time today, but I'll try to address some of the recent posts.

I think, having worked in the medical field and hospitals for over 35 years now, that we need to recognize there is a difference between technology and medical knowledge and experience. The best medical knowledge we have comes from practitioners themselves, and researchers, and medical schools, etc. Medical software can be an enhancement, but it doesn't even come close to being enough by itself (and can often be a burden - see articles below). Along with technology, medical knowledge has come a long way in the time I've been practicing. Few would deny that they go hand in hand. But good old-fashioned research and experience is a very big part of it, as well.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2666717
I'll take a moment to interject here that medical personnel are getting burnt out and leaving the field since the institution of electronic medical documentation (originally designed for billing and other QI coding) in the past decade or so. Why? For physicians, because it's added an average of two hours a day to their workload, often at home, on their off time, to complete their required documentation on very complex systems that aren't always very user friendly. So far, doctors are the only ones who've been studied; they haven't gotten to nurses and other healt professionals yet. It is very challenging day after day to try to give physical and every other type of care to very sick and (understandably) needy people and keep up with documentation that's required on every body system, safety, pain levels, emotional status, and a whole bunch of other things. All of this is being looked at now, but it is recognized as a crisis in healthcare.

http://www.massmed.org/news-and-publications/mms-news-releases/physician-burnout-report-2018/
Someone mentioned we all sign HIPAA forms. I believe most of those are telling consumers their information will be protected unless under very specific circumstances, but I would have to re-read, unless anyone else can comment on that.

So back to Project Nightingale, i.e. the name of Google's undertaking.

As I mentioned in the OP this information is just coming out, and there is a brand new federal investigation underway now, so day to day we may be getting new information as it's discovered. But from what I can tell, this isn't so much a project that will benefit all of us consumers, necessarily, but one that will benefit Google, and, if I'm correct, push us that much more toward socialized medicine - whether we want it or not. Why?

Well, looking at what we know right now:

The data sharing includes patient names and their dates of birth, along with doctor diagnoses, lab results, and hospitalization records, amounting to access to complete electronic health records. Also included in the data sharing are addresses of the patient, family members, allergies, immunizations, radiology scans, medications, and medical conditions.

After the patient checks in to the doctor's office, or hospital, or senior center - the doctor and nurse examination results are entered into a computer. The data then instantly streams to Google’s "Project Nightingale". At this point, the system is then used to suggest treatment plans, recommend replacement or removal of a doctor from the patient's health-care team, and administer policies on narcotics. Ascension, the company sharing data with Google, may also vary their billing according to treatment or procedures.[1]

Patients and doctors have not been apprised. Medical ethics and technical questions have been raised. 150 Google employees are allowed to access much of the data on millions patients. The project is controversial because Google has paid large fines for violating privacy laws."


I recognize that some see this as a good thing, and I think it's something that should be talked about. But doing it in secrecy, through the back door, without involving physicans or consumers, is simply bad practice, and should evoke questions of intent for all of us that are consumers of healthcare in the US.

I agree. Google’s track record is unsettling to me.
 
I don't have a lot of time today, but I'll try to address some of the recent posts.

I think, having worked in the medical field and hospitals for over 35 years now, that we need to recognize there is a difference between technology and medical knowledge and experience. The best medical knowledge we have comes from practitioners themselves, and researchers, and medical schools, etc. Medical software can be an enhancement, but it doesn't even come close to being enough by itself (and can often be a burden - see articles below). Along with technology, medical knowledge has come a long way in the time I've been practicing. Few would deny that they go hand in hand. But good old-fashioned research and experience is a very big part of it, as well.

I can respect your opinion as someone in the medical field but please remember that we as patients still have our own experiences in the medical field.
Someone working in it would understandably have a bias against technology for patients that could work even better than their own doctor's good old fashioned research and experience.
As a patient who is growing older, with kids who will grow older in this technological age I look forward to the future advancements in medical technology, specifically AI.
 
I can respect your opinion as someone in the medical field but please remember that we as patients still have our own experiences in the medical field.
Someone working in it would understandably have a bias against technology for patients that could work even better than their own doctor's good old fashioned research and experience.
As a patient who is growing older, with kids who will grow older in this technological age I look forward to the future advancements in medical technology, specifically AI.
Do you think I am not a consumer as well? That all of us in the medical field aren’t consumers? We see both sides of it. You and I can agree to disagree. I was going to comment on your earlier post about your father, but I have run out of time. I would think long and hard about it, though, given what I just posted above. You, of course, might see it differently than I do, and that’s ok.
 
That article is fake news. All it says is that apple lets Facebook collect data on your phone. But this is something people have to opt into. Apple gives you the freedom to install what you want on your phone. I should hope so. It is Facebook that is the problem if you ask me. I would never let my kids use that platform. All other companies pre install Facebook on your phone and you can’t take that crap off. I do not find the Atlantic to be a very measured publication.
 
Do you think I am not a consumer as well? That all of us in the medical field aren’t consumers? We see both sides of it. You and I can agree to disagree. I was going to comment on your earlier post about your father, but I have run out of time. I would think long and hard about it, though, given what I just posted above. You, of course, might see it differently than I do, and that’s ok.

Yes of course we can agree to disagree, but it sure seems like you keep trying to tell the "other side" we are wrong.

I didin't post anything about my father, must have me confused with someone else.
 
Yes of course we can agree to disagree, but it sure seems like you keep trying to tell the "other side" we are wrong.
Funny, I was thinking the same thing about you.

ETA, sorry, it looks as if it was your DH. Point stands.


I have to agree with this aspect of it.
My dh had an issue a couple years ago and still no real disgnosis after seeing quite a few specialists. Who knows in a few years with these kind of advances he may actually know what is going on.
He’s been working on AI and at the time said it’s only a matter of time where this kind of thing would be happening. It has the potential to really help doctors and their patients in the future.
 
Last edited:
Funny, I was thinking the same thing about you.

ETA, sorry, it looks as if it was your DH. Point stands.

LOL, fair enough.
It was my dh, and yes after that whole experience my eyes were opened- doctor's are only human and they have limitations. And even finding the better ones can be a challenge, both physically and financially. As patients we have our limitations as well.
Advanced technology will be able to aide doctors and patients. That is never a bad thing for patients.

Of course is a separate issue than the privacy concerns, however the fact is that NOTHING is ever truly private once it is "out there". That will always be a concern whether it's with our financial, personal or medical information.
So for me personally, the actual collection of data for the use of medical technological advancements (in AI) outweighs the risk of loss of privacy (because our privacy is already at risk).
That said, a patient should be made aware and have the option to opt out of that data collection.
 
Last edited:
If I sign up voluntarily to participate in a clinical trial that could benefit other patients (and I have), that is one thing. I think there should be meaningful consequences for Google and whoever participated in collecting and sharing personal data associated with medical details without consent or even disclosure for the benefit of the collector. I will be following as the details on this issue are made public as I consider this a breach of both info and trust.
 
I agree @snappy
I like when big data helps but it all depends on WHO is holding the data and their INTENT. If the intent is to improve diagnostics, alleviate healthcare burnout, etc., that's great but not if they are going to deny coverage or increase insurance costs on pre-existing conditions.
 
INTENT, yes indeed. I like that you emphasized that word. And even if there is even partially an altruistic reason to obtain medical info linked to personal info, it’s worrisome as to who else might gain access to both.
 

GET A DISNEY VACATION QUOTE

Dreams Unlimited Travel is committed to providing you with the very best vacation planning experience possible. Our Vacation Planners are experts and will share their honest advice to help you have a magical vacation.

Let us help you with your next Disney Vacation!





Latest posts

Top