FP + What we know and what we want to know

[UNCFanatik]

Just a few samples of your assertions that FP abuse was, in your opinion, a reason for the change.

And, yes, you have made it clear it's not the only reason, but the way you go on repeatedly about "abuse", suggests you feel the "abuse" had a bigger role in the decision to make the change.

There is an underlying reason for the change, FP "abuse" has nothing to do with it, imo. Has Disneyland changed their FP policy yet? If not, why?

Suggests a bigger role? Again trying to project something on my position I never said.

I was intentionally vague in some of my posts trying to make a generalized point. It was only AFTER people asked me about what I was talking about did I explain what I meant by FP abuse. AND the truth is that neither one of us knows what role the problems with the previous FP system played in any decisions made by Disney execs.

Yes, the underlying reason for the change is to drive revenue. And changing the FP system is a way that they think will help drive revenue. They could have left the FP program alone and never offered their guest to make FP reservations. It could have been left out of the whole My Magic + initiative. But again, it is no coincidence that the new FP+ system will put an end to most of the FP abuse of the past. And I would assert that it was ONE of the multiple facets they looked at when designing the whole MY Magic + project.

And in Europe they have different FP rules as well. Each park has its own demographics and attendance statistics and that plays a factor in when changes and programs are rolled out. And FP changes are coming to DLR and I suspect the My Magic + initiative will make its way there as well eventually.

 

[mom2mickeyfan]

But again, it is no coincidence that the new FP+ system will put an end to most of the FP abuse of the past.

Well how about stop calling it abuse?? Calling it abuse places blame on a set of people. You say the "super-users" were not doing anything wrong but Disney is going to use this new system to fix abuses. How can we not being doing anything wrong and causing abuses at the same time? It seems instead of stopping "abuse", Disney thought that maybe they could get the non-FP's users to start being FP's user by offering pre-registration for them and MAYBE make a few more people happy. There is no way they could allow guest to pre-register for anything and everything they want. So to make they new system work they had to take FPs from the planners and RDers to make sure there is enough stock for those they are trying to convince that they need to use this system.

 

[dadddio]

Interesting for those of us who are holding on to 2 day tickets we had to get to qualify for free dining. I won't be able to upgrade them until I get there, and therefore wouldn't be able to make many fastpass + reservations, despite my room reservation in that scenario correct?

I suspect that the system will very soon start offering people the option of upgrading their passes during the planning process. This would be one more chance for the company to lock you into more days at Disney parks.

Then I hope they get rid of the charge to get them mailed to you, unless they automagically associate them to your account.

It seems that the end game is to do away with paper tickets entirely. Therefore, there would be no need to mail them, at all. Either they would go into your profile automagically or you would be provided with electronic ticket numbers to associate with your group members' profiles.

Would a 2-day ticket associated with a 10-day stay be treated as 10 days, or 2?

Why would a two day ticket be treated as ten days?

 

[Cinderumbrella]

Suggests a bigger role? Again trying to project something on my position I never said.

I was intentionally vague in some of my posts trying to make a generalized point. It was only AFTER people asked me about what I was talking about did I explain what I meant by FP abuse. AND the truth is that neither one of us knows what role the problems with the previous FP system played in any decisions made by Disney execs.

Yes, the underlying reason for the change is to drive revenue. And changing the FP system is a way that they think will help drive revenue. They could have left the FP program alone and never offered their guest to make FP reservations. It could have been left out of the whole My Magic + initiative. But again, it is no coincidence that the new FP+ system will put an end to most of the FP abuse of the past. And I would assert that it was ONE of the multiple facets they looked at when designing the whole MY Magic + project.

And in Europe they have different FP rules as well. Each park has its own demographics and attendance statistics and that plays a factor in when changes and programs are rolled out. And FP changes are coming to DLR and I suspect the My Magic + initiative will make its way there as well eventually.

But wouldn't it be ironic is it WAS coincidental??

This is part of the master plan to spend more money. We can't spend money if we are in line (standby or FP). I think they are hoping that if you are limited to 3 rides per day, and the standby lines remain at 60 minutes plus that you will simply skip all the lines and do something relatively line free (eat at a TS restaurant, shop, play Disney Infinity (and buy more pieces to play) etc.)

And while we are on the subject of long standby lines, was the wait for Space Mountain REALLY 180 minutes??? I have never gotten in line to check it out, but there are some folks on the UG Lines App who claim to. Ever read the posted time and actual time by some of those users? A lot of time there is a real disparity in those numbers. Has Disney already been manipulating posted wait times mid day to push people out of lines as a way of gauging where the limit is for folks to get in line?? Who knows Certainly not all the time and not on every ride.

But back to FPs...

As I have said multiple times in this thread and others, I am having a REALLY hard time believing that we super-users drinking1 ) are a big enough group to mess FP up for the whole world yet a small enough group that they don't care if we take our vacation dollars elsewhere because of the presumed limitations. The number 3 was not picked for diabolical reasons or to stop any perceived abuse (since they closed the real loophole for that almost a year ago). That number is all part of their statistical research for the correct balance between rides and spending money.

My 2 cents, YMMV.

 

[Cinderumbrella]

Why would a two day ticket be treated as ten days?

Perhaps in conjunction with a 10 day on-site resort reservation.

I agree, this is probably just wishful thinking on my part. But it would make sense if they are hoping to keep you on site for all 10 days of your trip instead of side-tripping to US/Sea World etc.

That being said, I am not holding my breath that this will be the outcome.

 

[doconeill]

Why would a two day ticket be treated as ten days?

I thought the point of my post made it clear, but here it is more verbosely.

Several people posted here that they have 2-day tickets left over from FD promos, etc.

Their intent is to upgrade them to whatever length they need on their next ticket. However, according to mousemerf, it matters not how many days you've booked a room for, if you have a separate ticket, even if it was from Disney originally, then you only get to book FP+s based on the length of the ticket, not the length of your stay.

Now, that DOES make sense in some ways - if I book a package for 10 days but specifically only get a 7-day ticket, I'm already telling Disney I'm only planning to be in the parks for 7 days.

But, if I book a room only for 10 days, and associate a old 2-day ticket that I intend to upgrade to 10, or even an AP, should I now be punished for only having a 2-day ticket from a previous purchase? Unless I can upgrade it easily before I arrive (and the host of problems THAT might bring up), I lose.

 

[dadddio]

That was NEVER the actual policy. Many employees also do not wash their hands before returning to work - that does not make it the official policy.

Cast members were given written instruction by the company to accept FPs after the return window expired. A quick forum search will provide you with an image of the actual document. I don't see how you can argue that it wasn't the policy of the company to allow people to use FPs after the window.

 

[Missyrose]

I thought the point of my post made it clear, but here it is more verbosely.

Several people posted here that they have 2-day tickets left over from FD promos, etc.

Their intent is to upgrade them to whatever length they need on their next ticket. However, according to mousemerf, it matters not how many days you've booked a room for, if you have a separate ticket, even if it was from Disney originally, then you only get to book FP+s based on the length of the ticket, not the length of your stay.

Now, that DOES make sense in some ways - if I book a package for 10 days but specifically only get a 7-day ticket, I'm already telling Disney I'm only planning to be in the parks for 7 days.

But, if I book a room only for 10 days, and associate a old 2-day ticket that I intend to upgrade to 10, or even an AP, should I now be punished for only having a 2-day ticket from a previous purchase? Unless I can upgrade it easily before I arrive (and the host of problems THAT might bring up), I lose.

I think the bottom line in all this is Disney is trying to reward the people who buy tickets directly from them. With all these changes to the system, Disney is definitely attempting to keep the ticket sales in house and make it as difficult as possible to use outside tickets.

 

[Wadecool]

But wouldn't it be ironic is it WAS coincidental??

If that's true then someone has wasted a lot of energy and one perfectly good thesaurus...

Sent from my iPhone using DISBoards

 

[fan1080]

Suggests a bigger role? Again trying to project something on my position I never said.

I was intentionally vague in some of my posts trying to make a generalized point. It was only AFTER people asked me about what I was talking about did I explain what I meant by FP abuse. AND the truth is that neither one of us knows what role the problems with the previous FP system played in any decisions made by Disney execs.

Yes, the underlying reason for the change is to drive revenue. And changing the FP system is a way that they think will help drive revenue. They could have left the FP program alone and never offered their guest to make FP reservations. It could have been left out of the whole My Magic + initiative. But again, it is no coincidence that the new FP+ system will put an end to most of the FP abuse of the past. And I would assert that it was ONE of the multiple facets they looked at when designing the whole MY Magic + project.

And in Europe they have different FP rules as well. Each park has its own demographics and attendance statistics and that plays a factor in when changes and programs are rolled out. And FP changes are coming to DLR and I suspect the My Magic + initiative will make its way there as well eventually.

You are the one contiuously bringing up the "abuse" and thinks it was a "problem" that needed to be "fixed".

Maybe you could point us to where Disney felt is was a problem?

There is no coincidental fix. There was nothing to fix. Disney is making a move for completely different reason, revenue, which you agree about, but you keep throwing in the "abuse", needing fixed, stuff.

 

[lugnut33]

So, besides the big rides, Fastpass+ will also be available for shows and fireworks. On our last trip we got to try out one of the new "fastpasses" for Lights, Motors, Action" and let me tell you how that worked. The pass told you to arrive between 12:15-12:40 for the 1pm show. As you walked up to the entrance there was no visible signage for fastpass holders, just a CM telling people if they had a fastpass to go to the left side of the line. I thought we would be getting some good seats since the lines were separated. After walking about a 1/4 mile the two lines merged back together and we got hearded to our seats along with everybody else. I couldn't figure out the point of doing that. Why even offer a fastpass for that attraction?

People, do you realize that Haunted Mansion once had fastpass availability, but they got rid of it because it actually slowed down the line? Same with Pirates. Now, I want you to think about those two rides and imagine how they are going to incorporate fastpass+ lines into those attractions?

 

[UNCFanatik]

But wouldn't it be ironic is it WAS coincidental??

With all this money being spent, it is highly unlikely that anything is coincidental at this point.

This is part of the master plan to spend more money. We can't spend money if we are in line (standby or FP). I think they are hoping that if you are limited to 3 rides per day, and the standby lines remain at 60 minutes plus that you will simply skip all the lines and do something relatively line free (eat at a TS restaurant, shop, play Disney Infinity (and buy more pieces to play) etc.)

I think this plays another part in the overall decision of My Magic + initiative. But the larger goal is to get more people into the parks to begin with and they had to come up with ideas how to do that.

And while we are on the subject of long standby lines, was the wait for Space Mountain REALLY 180 minutes??? I have never gotten in line to check it out, but there are some folks on the UG Lines App who claim to. Ever read the posted time and actual time by some of those users? A lot of time there is a real disparity in those numbers. Has Disney already been manipulating posted wait times mid day to push people out of lines as a way of gauging where the limit is for folks to get in line?? Who knows Certainly not all the time and not on every ride.

Yes, I agree. Its seems that Disney does inflate SB wait times on their signage especially before closing time to dissuade people from getting in line. Disney is definitely shady to do this. And with everyone wearing RFID bracelets in the future, it will be easier for Disney to post more accurate SB wait times. Some of the listed SB wait times can now be contributed to human error and not properly updating the wait times but I agree there seems to be some level of manipulation by Disney here[/QUOTE]

But back to FPs...

As I have said multiple times in this thread and others, I am having a REALLY hard time believing that we super-users drinking1 ) are a big enough group to mess FP up for the whole world yet a small enough group that they don't care if we take our vacation dollars elsewhere because of the presumed limitations. The number 3 was not picked for diabolical reasons or to stop any perceived abuse (since they closed the real loophole for that almost a year ago). That number is all part of their statistical research for the correct balance between rides and spending money.

My 2 cents, YMMV.

That is the great unknown and the paradox that you mention. The number of super-user in play. They may also think that super users are the more loyal fan base that will continue to visit Disney no matter what changes are made. They may take them for granted and know that while they may grumble and complain, in the end they will always come to the parks because of their love and loyalty for all things Disney.

 

[UNCFanatik]

You are the one contiuously bringing up the "abuse" and thinks it was a "problem" that needed to be "fixed".

Maybe you could point us to where Disney felt is was a problem?

There is no coincidental fix. There was nothing to fix. Disney is making a move for completely different reason, revenue, which you agree about, but you keep throwing in the "abuse", needing fixed, stuff.

Why are the terms "non-transferable" and "not for sale" on FP to begin with?

Do you think that Disney really wanted their FPs to be sold?

Do you think that Disney wanted people to act as a secondary distributor of their own product?

There was abuse going on. People on this very thread talk about it. Pulling FPs whether they felt they needed them or not just for the sake of pulling them.

The FP abuse was part of the reason for some guest unhappiness. You know the guests that would come into the park later and could not get an FP.

And now, that abuse will be extremely limited when the new initiative is fully rolled out.

For you to deny there was never any abuse or anything to fix is to completely ignore the reality of the situation.

 

[dadddio]

Respectfully, I've been trying to follow your logic with respect to FP and FP+, and you are all over the place, and very inconsistant.

You say there is nothing wrong with people using the old system to the fullest, but you do in fact have a problem with just that.

I think that the argument that some are using (including me) is that people were using the system as designed, but the way it was being used wasn't how the system was envisioned. The people weren't doing anything wrong, but the arguably system was still 'broken' because the effect wasn't as imagined.

You say Disney is fixing a problem, but if it were an issue, spending this kind of money to fix it makes absolutely no sense, there is obviously something else completely unrelated to what you percieve to be going on. There is no problem to fix, they are looking to generate more revenue. There is no coincidental "fix" to a problem if a problem didn't exist.

Why can't both be true? Can't nextgen be implemented for many reasons. Even if those reasons have nothing to do with fixing FP, can't they use it to alter how FP affects the most guests?

Says who? Maybe I missed it, but I haven't seen anything that suggests Disney is addressing anything for this reason.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

I getcha. That's why I said 'supposedly'. In other words, 'If you buy the argument that somebody at Disney had a problem with the ubersuperelite going on TSMM six times in a day instead of lots more 'regular' guests using the system, then this is a fix'.

 

[dadddio]

Perhaps in conjunction with a 10 day on-site resort reservation.

I agree, this is probably just wishful thinking on my part. But it would make sense if they are hoping to keep you on site for all 10 days of your trip instead of side-tripping to US/Sea World etc.

That being said, I am not holding my breath that this will be the outcome.

I understand what you are saying, but I think that the smarter play would be to stop you when you tried to make that 3rd-day FP+ reservation and offer you a chance to upgrade your tickets to ten-day passes.

 

[Cinderumbrella]

I understand what you are saying, but I think that the smarter play would be to stop you when you tried to make that 3rd-day FP+ reservation and offer you a chance to upgrade your tickets to ten-day passes.

Which is probably what will end up happening (or should end up happening. More than likely at first it will ask you if you want to upgrade but the link to the ticket page won't work and then you will get frozen out of the system until you re-enter your password 6 more times )

 

[Robo]

I understand what you are saying, but I think that the smarter play would be to stop you when you tried to make that 3rd-day FP+ reservation and offer you a chance to upgrade your tickets to ten-day passes.

Fixes!

We need more FIXES!

 

[mom2rtk]

I understand what you are saying, but I think that the smarter play would be to stop you when you tried to make that 3rd-day FP+ reservation and offer you a chance to upgrade your tickets to ten-day passes.

........ which would also end your chance to price bridge since you had not yet entered a park on your ticket. A bit WIN for Disney's bottom line.

 

[fan1080]

Why are the terms "non-transferable" and "not for sale" on FP to begin with?

Do you think that Disney really wanted their FPs to be sold?

Do you think that Disney wanted people to act as a secondary distributor of their own product?

There was abuse going on. People on this very thread talk about it. Pulling FPs whether they felt they needed them or not just for the sake of pulling them.

The FP abuse was part of the reason for some guest unhappiness. You know the guests that would come into the park later and could not get an FP.

And now, that abuse will be extremely limited when the new initiative is fully rolled out.

For you to deny there was never any abuse or anything to fix is to completely ignore the reality of the situation.

There is no need to re-hash old debates about why those things were on the old FP. You can search this forum for those explanations. And it is your right to disagree with them.

The old system evolved, for whatever reason. The new system, imo, is specifically to generate more revenue. This new system is far to complicated to only address percieved issues with old FP usage.

 

[fan1080]

I think that the argument that some are using (including me) is that people were using the system as designed, but the way it was being used wasn't how the system was envisioned. The people weren't doing anything wrong, but the arguably system was still 'broken' because the effect wasn't as imagined.

The old system certainly evolved, and the reasons are likley only speculative, but did seem to have a lot of basis around issues that Disney didn't have control over (late running ADR's, ride break downs, etc). That's not a problem, per se, could also be an improvement. So you can look at it both ways.

Why can't both be true? Can't nextgen be implemented for many reasons. Even if those reasons have nothing to do with fixing FP, can't they use it to alter how FP affects the most guests?

Absolutely, FP+ could have been done for various reasons, no question. But, imo, it's primary reason is revenue. I don't see any other viable reason to spend as much as they are on this otherwise. It makes very little sense to spend this kind of money on something such as a perceived problem with the old system. The return on investment isn't there.

I getcha. That's why I said 'supposedly'. In other words, 'If you buy the argument that somebody at Disney had a problem with the ubersuperelite going on TSMM six times in a day instead of lots more 'regular' guests using the system, then this is a fix'.

Yup, but I don't buy it.