Fake service animal owners may face jail time with new law

so should we give more money to the disabled?
There is a case to be made for that, but that is a different topic, the point is that an ID system would actually make the problem worse, not better. And it would actually violate ADA, which was carefully crafted to exclude the need to present proof for many legitimate reasons.

Educating businesses about their rights and responsibilities and prosecuting those that abuse the system with jail times and fines is the better solution.
 
There is a case to be made for that, but that is a different topic, the point is that an ID system would actually make the problem worse, not better. And it would actually violate ADA, which was carefully crafted to exclude the need to present proof for many legitimate reasons.

Educating businesses about their rights and responsibilities and prosecuting those that abuse the system with jail times and fines is the better solution.
There are educational programs, websites, videos on YouTube, the ada.gov, etc., available. This is an issue that many businesses simply don't work to educate themselves on. I worked in my former job to educate all of our staff, but it was a Title II government office and my place was to educate staff on serving people with disabilities.
 
Actually it would be very easy, look at how many fake HC Placards, even in states like California where they are made out of hard plastic. Look at how many drivers licenses (even the so called secured versions) are faked, the list goes on and on. Really such a licensing scheme would actually make the problem worse, there already is a system in place to handle misbehaving dogs, the key isn't more regulation, it is education of both the public and the businesses of their rights and responsibilities. Although there should be more laws mandating jail time for faking service animals....San Diego doesn't mess around, it can be something like 6 years an $2,000 if you fake a service animal in San Diego County with some cities making that even higher. This is a good deterrent to faking service animals.

The other issue is that this would make it financially more expensive to have a service animal, which is something that many who are disable can't afford, for many of them even an extra $20 a year would be a hardship and would end up taking money from either their own food or the dogs food (more than likely their own food, generally speaking service animals eat better than those that need them).

I think the fake placards and licences are a lot less common than you state. But people dragging their little yippy 'service dogs' into stores and restaurants is getting pretty obnoxious. Why would it be a financial hardship to get a dog license? Do they charge for HC placards? They don't have to charge for the testing, etc. And if the ADA makes it so you can't judge if a service animal is fake or not (because people just have to lie about it, and say their dog is in training, or having an issue - does a service dog having an issue, or not being 100% trained appropriately make it not a service dog at all?) then how do they charge someone with the fine/jail? It's any empty threat, IMO.

There is a case to be made for that, but that is a different topic, the point is that an ID system would actually make the problem worse, not better. And it would actually violate ADA, which was carefully crafted to exclude the need to present proof for many legitimate reasons.

Educating businesses about their rights and responsibilities and prosecuting those that abuse the system with jail times and fines is the better solution.

The ADA should be changed then. Because if you can't be asked to provide proof, and people just lie about needs, then how can you charge them?
 
I think the fake placards and licences are a lot less common than you state. But people dragging their little yippy 'service dogs' into stores and restaurants is getting pretty obnoxious. Why would it be a financial hardship to get a dog license? Do they charge for HC placards? They don't have to charge for the testing, etc. And if the ADA makes it so you can't judge if a service animal is fake or not (because people just have to lie about it, and say their dog is in training, or having an issue - does a service dog having an issue, or not being 100% trained appropriately make it not a service dog at all?) then how do they charge someone with the fine/jail? It's any empty threat, IMO.



The ADA should be changed then. Because if you can't be asked to provide proof, and people just lie about needs, then how can you charge them?
No, there are many reasons why the law was written the way it was, I don't know all of them, but I do know it was written specifically that way because the alternative would be much, much worse.

As for how you tell, yes a service animal could.misbehave, the question is how does the owner react, do they immediately take corrective action or do they let the behavior continue? If they don't take corrective action, it is not a service dog. The San Diego Zoo kicks fake service dogs out fairly regularly, they made one leave because their owner kept holding them over the animal encolsures.

And yes there is massive abuse of the placard system, people using deceased peoples placards, fake placards, stolen placards, police have been cracking down on them recently but there are many more that aren' being caught and it makes it harder on those that truly need them, just as the fake service dogs do. Honestly, if businesses would just kick misbehaving service animals out, the problem would go away.
 
There are educational programs, websites, videos on YouTube, the ada.gov, etc., available. This is an issue that many businesses simply don't work to educate themselves on. I worked in my former job to educate all of our staff, but it was a Title II government office and my place was to educate staff on serving people with disabilities.
The problem with YouTube is there is a lot of false information, it would be better served for people who educate businesses to go door to door and educate in person.
 
I think they need to handle service animals the same way they handle handicapped parking placards. You must have a signed letter from a doctor and you have to apply for a permit for it. Permits can be revoked if you violate the rules associated with it such as having an ill behaved animal. Just like you can lose your handicapped placard for violating the rules with it such as loaning it out to other people.
 
Again it would cause more problems than it would solve, you would have doctors handing out fake notes, just look at medical mariuana states, there are "doctors" on every other street corner giving out notes for $10, making it much harder on those that actually do have legitimate cases for it.

Again, handicap placards have more abuse than the fake service dog levels we see.

There are ways to handle fake service dogs already available, they need to be used.
 


I had a "Service" dog jump to its feet aggressively and growl at me and my son once because we walked into a waiting room where the dog and owner were. She did not even have the giant great dane by his leash. I complained to the owner and she actually told the woman not to bring the dog anymore if it was going to growl and act aggressive to children.

No truly properly trained service dog would ever growl at a child like that.

Its scary that a dog that large is allowed places without any proof of its training and personality to guarantee it won't attack someone.
 
So people get a fake piece of paper stating their dog is a service dog. How does that protect anyone? By requiring authentic service dogs to carry such paperwork, it will just drive up the market for people selling fake paperwork. Obviously if this dog reacted in such a way, it likely wasn't a service dog and if the owner/handler did not correct the dog, it just goes further to prove that it is poorly trained and socialized.

I think that if we start having people with service dogs be mandated to show paperwork everywhere they go, we are punishing the very people who the ADA was trying to protect. I imagine people who use service dogs already feel somewhat conspicuous as it is and this would just draw further attention to their disability. Yes, they are required to answer some questions regarding if their dog is a service dog and what tasks it can perform, but to ask anything further is deemed discrimination (hence why service dogs do not have to wear vests).
 
Okay I found this and now have to comment. There are a few misconceptions her also, the thing we try to avoid.as a service dog owner, I sometimes feel it is a responsibility to educate.

1) the person who stated her DD dog from Guiding eyes from the blind and has no ID is mistaken. All dogs from Guiding Eyes for the blind has an ID card, at least all 4 of mine have and it has been more than 20 years. But we were taught the card is for airplane use only, you can not ask to produce it anywhere else by law.

2) reasons we were giving, seeing eye dogs the first real service animals paved the way for all other service animals. We fought for the right to have public access. When we did we realized that we were set apart from other service animals. Guide dogs have been around for 60+ years, service animals since ADA, 20+ years. When ADA ask, we as a special group had many advantages and did not want to step on toes. All but one seeing eye schools charge nothing for a handler to have a dog, the one school that charges charge only $200. This includes free training, room and board for 28 days of trading, air fare to training, follow up training, harness, dog supplies, vet care, everything is free, except dog food. How sitting at a table writing a law were we going to say no you must mandate things for other service dogs, some people pay more than $20000 for there dog that lives and works for 8 or 9 years. Why should people with other disabilities not be able to raise, train and use whatever dog they need, my deaf nephew has always been able to get his dog from a pound and train the dog to tell him phone is ringing, ambulance siren is coming, door bell is ringin, two huge differences, his dog hardly even goes into the public like my guide dog does so yes needs some obedience but not like mine, his dog also is not saving his life in the same way my guide dog is saving mine.

20+ years later, yes, we now see the mistake, but how do you fix it. Because we have fake service dogs do we make it so that every dog has to go thru blank blank and blank training, what if the disabled is on a fixed income and has time to train there own dog, but not the money to hire a trainer. Then there is also the problem of putting more pressure on singling out the disabled, can we be like the nazi and make the disabled carry a picture of them and there dog just to show they are disabled, I don't think so.

3) I wrote this here under another discussion not long ago, people have to understand, laws, they are not one fold, ADA does not hold the full laws on service animals, it holds how businesses can not discriminate. Also the law states nothing about the dog being trained in obedience, all it states is the dog must be trained in a task or work for the disabled, and that if the dog is unruly you can ask it to be moved from the business. It gives us access.

Local laws give us more indepth laws on behaviors. For the public to get involved and help get rid of fake service animals, they need to know what local laws state. There are laws about behavior, laws about service animals, and laws about dogs. Like all dogs in public (parks, streets and fields) need to be on leash, service dog or not dogs should be on leash (there is exceptions for people with no arms and service dogs on leash. But the law states the leash has to be 6 or 8 ft depending on your local law.

Why is this important. Well ever see a service dog on a retractable leash of 20 ft, no school or training would ever allow it, so you are looking at a fake service dog. Number one clue it is a fake service dog.

Other things public need to look for to spot and train those around them. Service dogs should not be distracted, so why are there service dogs without being spayed or nuetered, yes you may be able to control the dog but you can not control the other dogs if yours is not spayed or neutered, that would be a distraction.

We were taught in school all service dogs need to have all four paws on the floor, even those pesky little wimp dogs. Why they can not do there job up on your lap. I know of no school who trains small dogs, not alert dogs they use medium dogs. Not guide dogs they use medium to large dog. Not mobility dogs, they use middium to large dogs. Not seizure dogs, they are at least medium size. So if no school uses small dogs, why would people. Most would not especially if you are training them. Small chows, yorkies and such would be hard to walk around on all fours, so why put so much money into a dog that would be hard to leave down on ground to walk when you are out in a store. Also like alert dogs need to move around to smell your sugar highs and lows. A alert dog for deaf would need to be able to see and hear so would need to be high enough off ground.

All in all, I think the public must come together start reporting to businesses that unruly dogs need to go, the public needs to start questioning and then the fake service dogs will be less and less. Do we need laws, I guess but I don't think them helping. It is more fear of knowing they have access and confronting people.

Even today, I should have confronted someone. I was leaving a business and I had my guide dog. As I was walking to the door another lady scolded her dog to stop barking, which it did not. I should have stopped got the manager and asked them to have the dog removed, but I try to protect my dog, who can ignore it, but my fear is when will that other dog jump down and bite, do I want to wait for a manager, or just keep walking and get my dog safely way. I can't see the other dog and know when he will make a move. If I had someone who would stick up with me, I would go just outside and have the other person go get a manager and make the complaint. Yet I never can alone, that is where the public can come in. I know this business would have made the other dog leave, I just can't without sight leave my dog in a situation where he could be bite because I need my dog every day. So please public, learn the rules, learn how to spot fake service dogs and then when those dogs go off on real service animals, speak up, tell us you will go get management for us. Otherwise these fake service animals will continue because we live in an entitled world everyone feels they are entitled to do what they want without knowing or caring how that might hurt others.
 
The problem with YouTube is there is a lot of false information, it would be better served for people who educate businesses to go door to door and educate in person.

Well, that's easier said than done. I worked in disability advocacy for five years, we couldn't get to every place in our large region. Many advocacy groups will invite local groups to educational sessions, but you can't force them. The point is there are many resources with good information, so there is no excuse to not know.
 
I complained to the owner and she actually told the woman not to bring the dog anymore if it was going to growl and act aggressive to children.

I just want to give a kudos to that business owner who was brave enough to tell someone with an apparent service dog that the dog needs to be a good citizen.

Not seizure dogs, they are at least medium size.

Well that’s not always true. Maybe if it’s coming out of a training program, that’s what they choose. But a dog you have that turns out to detect seizures or blood sugar issues might be any size.

If we get an Applehead chihuahua and it turns out to be able to detect DH’s sugar swings, I’m not ignoring the dogs skills because he’s tiny and will need to be carried.
 
I had a "Service" dog jump to its feet aggressively and growl at me and my son once because we walked into a waiting room where the dog and owner were. She did not even have the giant great dane by his leash. I complained to the owner and she actually told the woman not to bring the dog anymore if it was going to growl and act aggressive to children.

No truly properly trained service dog would ever growl at a child like that.

Its scary that a dog that large is allowed places without any proof of its training and personality to guarantee it won't attack someone.
There are two times that a properly trained service dog should/would growl like that:
  1. If someone is threatening their owner. Remember these are still dogs and protecting their humans is a natural instinct.
  2. If they were stepped on or harmed in some other way.
Otherwise how this was handled was absolutely correct, another problem with proof of training is who determines what training is adequate? Do you have to go to a certain trainer, etc.? And that prevents owner trained service dogs, which are legal under the ADA and quite often better behaved than the "professionally trained" dogs.
 
I just want to give a kudos to that business owner who was brave enough to tell someone with an apparent service dog that the dog needs to be a good citizen.



Well that’s not always true. Maybe if it’s coming out of a training program, that’s what they choose. But a dog you have that turns out to detect seizures or blood sugar issues might be any size.

If we get an Applehead chihuahua and it turns out to be able to detect DH’s sugar swings, I’m not ignoring the dogs skills because he’s tiny and will need to be carried.
Very true, I know of some very small diabetic alert dogs, one person is an ECV and the diabetic alert dog is always in the basket of the ECV because that way it can smell her and alert her to the issues, if it were another type of dog it would not work in her situation.
 
Well that’s not always true. Maybe if it’s coming out of a training program, that’s what they choose. But a dog you have that turns out to detect seizures or blood sugar issues might be any size.

If we get an Applehead chihuahua and it turns out to be able to detect DH’s sugar swings, I’m not ignoring the dogs skills because he’s tiny and will need to be carried.

But are you training the dog to do something when it detects? If it is not trained to do something for a disabled person, then it is not considered a service dog.
 
But are you training the dog to do something when it detects? If it is not trained to do something for a disabled person, then it is not considered a service dog.
I am sure they are, the most common is to lick in a specific area, but each person needs to find what works for them.
 
We just got back a couple of weeks ago and saw several people using service dogs. There were a few that looked really questionable in my eyes but I could be wrong. I did see more dogs on this trip than I have seen in past, maybe more than all my other trips combined.
 
We just got back a couple of weeks ago and saw several people using service dogs. There were a few that looked really questionable in my eyes but I could be wrong. I did see more dogs on this trip than I have seen in past, maybe more than all my other trips combined.
You realistically never know, but if it is anything like at Disneyland, they HAVE been cracking down on the fake service dogs. Security is asking if the dogs are service dogs and what tasks they perform when they enter through security and you would be surprised how many of the people with fake service dogs this scares off, personally I think Disney could still do more, such as removing the service dogs that are misbehaving and not being corrected by the person with the service dog, but it is a start,
 
We just got back a couple of weeks ago and saw several people using service dogs. There were a few that looked really questionable in my eyes but I could be wrong. I did see more dogs on this trip than I have seen in past, maybe more than all my other trips combined.
we also just got back from WDW and saw several very well trained service dogs and a couple of ‘what?’ dogs.

One of the questionable ones was on one of those retractable dog leashes and was pulling a lot; I didn’t see him heel once. We saw another on a retractable leash that was well behaved and stayed very close.
We also saw a woman using an ECV who had 3 small dogs - one on her lap and one on each side of her feet.
 
...We also saw a woman using an ECV who had 3 small dogs - one on her lap and one on each side of her feet.

I am *not* trying to be that person, but will someone please explain to me why you would need 3 small dogs as Service Dog(s)? I presume (and this is truly speculation on my part, I wasn't there, didn't talk to the woman, so...) that the lap dog is being presented as an emotional support animal companion.

But what about the other two? Does each one "alert" for a different condition? How is this allowable? What is a reasonable limit on support animals? Who cares for three animals if/when she is participating in an attraction? What if one of those dogs next to her feet jumps off and runs away, because it is startled, or because... dog reasons, or what if - worst case scenario - there is an accident, and one of the "floor dogs" (and/or the lap dog) is injured because it wasn't properly restrained and/or on a leash as is expected with a Service Dog?

So. Many. Questions.

And what if someone shows up with *four* dogs? Because after THREE DOGS is FOUR, and after FOUR is FIVE - and if we continue *that* progression, it's not going to be long before we have people showing up with a half dozen dogs, none of them on leashes, and demanding that they all be let in because they are service animals.

:::smh:::

I understand the need for Service Dogs, and I can (mostly) get on board with emotional support animals. (I'm sorry, but I have a hard time anyone presents an emotional support animal that is riding in a pink baby stroller that cost more than my first car) But I believe that a limit needs to be firmly set - what that limit is, where it's upper boundary should be - is not my decision to make. But I feel like the number 2 might be a great place to land.
 

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