Everything Is More Expensive

the trade off though is public service employment generally pays much less than the private sector for the identical job. in dh's division IT folks were making a fraction of what the going rate was in the industry. my line of worked required very specialized degrees and licensing to so much as sign certain documents. the same credentials in a private practice paid such that the turn over was tremendous (why public sector tried to get people within to do the education on their dime and commit to so many years of employment otherwise it was very quick turnover). if benefits don't offset the pay then paying the prevailing wage for a given job will end up costing the tax payers as well so i think to some extent they look to the numbers and crunch how long a retiree tends to live post retirement and the cost of those benefit expenses vs decades and decades of much higher pay (and there are careers in public service where people retire in their early 60's and the norm is death w/in 5 years b/c of the nature of their prior jobs-my dad used to read his retiree newsletter and attested to it, and i read mine and can see it month to month for certain classifications).

the county i worked for began to renege on some agreements with retirees back in 2002 but the capper was when they said the were going to cancel all health coverage for retirees:faint::faint::faint: now none of us get it for free but back in the day we got to pay at active employee rates, then it was capped years later so retirees pay the difference (no incentive for them to find cheaper coverage). the retirees had to launch a lawsuit to keep our benefits. crazy amounts of money for legal fees on both sides-what a waste.

According to a Pew Study, on average a public sector job pays 25% MORE than the same job in the private sector. My son went from private sector IT to public sector and DOUBLED his salary. And the benefits are amazing.

A former co-worker of mine took a California State Public Information Officer job. She is 10 years younger than me, and has 10 years less experience. Pay is public record here. Her pay in 2018 $141,633. That is more than my wife and I make COMBINED. And this is a job that we are over qualified for.

My point was not whether public employees should or should not receive benefits, or what their payscale ought to be, merely that years of not accounting for the cost of future benefits is currently bankrupting many state/local jurisdictions, creating many of the tax increases and modifications to promised benefits that are such a headache. It's what just about did in the auto industry, and many states still haven't hit bottom.

Again, if we could tackle the overall cost of healthcare issue, it would benefit states and cities who are on the hook for such a large portion of healthcare costs for employees/retired employees. Transparency, consistent pricing and everyone participating in the system are the only ways that I see healthcare costs getting fixed. As long as there is such huge uncertainty about whether bills will get paid (ie lots of uninsured people's costs to cover), hospitals and insurance companies are going to continue to jack up prices in any way they can to make sure that they aren't the ones left holding the bag.
 
My point was not whether public employees should or should not receive benefits, or what their payscale ought to be, merely that years of not accounting for the cost of future benefits is currently bankrupting many state/local jurisdictions, creating many of the tax increases and modifications to promised benefits that are such a headache. It's what just about did in the auto industry, and many states still haven't hit bottom.

Again, if we could tackle the overall cost of healthcare issue, it would benefit states and cities who are on the hook for such a large portion of healthcare costs for employees/retired employees. Transparency, consistent pricing and everyone participating in the system are the only ways that I see healthcare costs getting fixed. As long as there is such huge uncertainty about whether bills will get paid (ie lots of uninsured people's costs to cover), hospitals and insurance companies are going to continue to jack up prices in any way they can to make sure that they aren't the ones left holding the bag.

The healthcare sector out performed the technology sector. There is no shortage of cash generated. It’s just that we have to deal with it eating into our savings rate. Medicare for all will make it much easier to retire early.
 
The healthcare sector out performed the technology sector. There is no shortage of cash generated. It’s just that we have to deal with it eating into our savings rate. Medicare for all will make it much easier to retire early.

If we actually were paying for the full cost of Medicare now vs also kicking that cost down the road by incurring large budget deficits every year...https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/column-whos-paying-the-true-cost-of-medicare

"During 2014, the most recent full year covered by official government reports, nearly $600 billion flowed into Medicare and an even larger amount flowed out — $613 billion. Of this $600 billion, how much do you think came from payroll taxes? If you said less than half, you get to keep playing the Medicare money game. Medicare collected $227 billion in payroll taxes in 2014, or about 38 percent of its revenues. That leaves $373 billion unaccounted for. Premiums represent our dollars, too, so perhaps adding what we pay in Medicare premiums will justify the notion that we pay for Medicare. What do you think? Sixty percent? Fifty? Forty? Thirty? How about 21.5 percent, which translates into $80 billion in Medicare premiums.

It turns out that Medicare payroll taxes fully fund Part A hospital expenses (together with your share of uncovered Part A expenses), but that is literally where the buck stops. Expenses for Parts B, C (Medicare Advantage) and D (prescription drugs) are paid mostly by Uncle Sam, to the tune of nearly $250 billion. And this is, by the way, not a fixed line item in the federal budget but more of a blank check every year."

And now add on every American to that system that already is in the "red" to the tune of hundreds of billions per year...
 
And now add on every American to that system that already is in the "red" to the tune of hundreds of billions per year...

We're already running a deficit due to the tax cuts, and I'm getting nothing for it.

Why do drugs cost more in the US than abroad? Why can other developed countries provide healthcare to all of their people?

The fear to execute universal healthcare and put in place cost controls has resulted in my healthcare being the single biggest expense item in my budget that is far outpacing my salary. When I graduated from university, I paid around a $30 a month premium plus $15-20 copays to see my primary care doctor and around $15-30 copays for meds. Now, I have max out of pocket of $3500 with a $1500 dollar deductible. I pay significantly more for healthcare now then I did a little over a decade ago. This is insane. There is not a good argument for keeping this current system. It's my number one unknown for retirement.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/a...r-all-burns-unitedhealth-unh-cvs?srnd=premium

"Low-income families with employer coverage spend 14 percent of their income on premiums and care on average, and more than that if a family member is sick."

What's going to happen when people are forced to retire on next to nil savings due to 401Ks replacing pensions. If you're spending your potential savings on healthcare, how can you save for retirement? How can the average family continue to handle these prices increases?

What's the argument to keep this current broken system?
 


'on average'-that's not taking into consideration highly specialized jobs. sure, depending on the IT job someone could get more going to work for public sector but if it's an IT job that's directly involved with certain legacy systems involving public programs that unless you've either worked directly in those programs or received the rare/costly training in them-a private sector employer will pay scads of more money for you to jump ship to them so they have you as a marketing ploy for the outside contracts they bid on. my agency/the other agency dh worked for were hiring just basic IT staff beginning in the early 2000's-anything specialized they contracted out, didn't replace the skilled staff as they left which resulted in some catastrophic financial and legal debacles that still haunt them.

there are job classifications i supervised in the early 2000's that either no longer exist or pay peanuts b/c younger up and coming college grads wanted the higher pay private employers offered so many were outsourced to contractors or the higher end duties placed on the backs of upper level staff w/the remaining duties handled by 'data droids' (new staff that entered the data but had no clue what they were entering/why so couldn't catch an error before they input it, didn't recognize it when it happened, can't answer a question to the public to save their lives).


there's also the huge variance in 'public sector' pay/benefits in california-

cal pers covered vs. privately managed (like some of the counties do), and the public utilities are a whole other animal (old school smud benefits were phenomenal, not sure where newbies fall now). i also wonder what happened with all the staff that worked for the cities/counties that filed bankruptcy back in the day-i know the ones that came to work for my county fared fairly well but if there jobs weren't outright eliminated in the restructuring they spoke of co-workers who were looking at massive pay/benefit/pension cuts they would never recover from.

Departments like the DMV have learned, outsourcing doesn't work for technology. You have to have your own people who you can hold acccountable. Not some contractor who gets paid and disappears.
 
My point was not whether public employees should or should not receive benefits, or what their payscale ought to be, merely that years of not accounting for the cost of future benefits is currently bankrupting many state/local jurisdictions, creating many of the tax increases and modifications to promised benefits that are such a headache. It's what just about did in the auto industry, and many states still haven't hit bottom.

Again, if we could tackle the overall cost of healthcare issue, it would benefit states and cities who are on the hook for such a large portion of healthcare costs for employees/retired employees. Transparency, consistent pricing and everyone participating in the system are the only ways that I see healthcare costs getting fixed. As long as there is such huge uncertainty about whether bills will get paid (ie lots of uninsured people's costs to cover), hospitals and insurance companies are going to continue to jack up prices in any way they can to make sure that they aren't the ones left holding the bag.

It is about to come to a head in the Sacramento City Unified School District. Kids and some very hard working teachers are going to get hurt because the Union demanded, and got their last two contracts with pay and benefits that the district can't afford.
 
Medicare for all will make it much easier to retire early.


unless it's overhauled significantly the current Medicare program doesn't come close to providing for the needs of the average retiree otherwise the bulk of current and recent decades of recipients wouldn't be paying out the wazoo for additional separate policies to supplement coverage. comprehensive and appropriate coverage would also eliminate the necessity for many americans to engage in MEDICAID preplanning for those pesky late in life years when extensive treatment and continuing care may be needed and Medicaid is severely insufficient). unlike other health insurance programs-traditional Medicare does NOT have an out of pocket annual maximum limit.
 


Departments like the DMV have learned, outsourcing doesn't work for technology. You have to have your own people who you can hold acccountable. Not some contractor who gets paid and disappears.

The problem is the public sector is unwilling to pay the extremely high salaries it takes to get competent IT staff.
 
unless it's overhauled significantly the current Medicare program doesn't come close to providing for the needs of the average retiree otherwise the bulk of current and recent decades of recipients wouldn't be paying out the wazoo for additional separate policies to supplement coverage. comprehensive and appropriate coverage would also eliminate the necessity for many americans to engage in MEDICAID preplanning for those pesky late in life years when extensive treatment and continuing care may be needed and Medicaid is severely insufficient). unlike other health insurance programs-traditional Medicare does NOT have an out of pocket annual maximum limit.

Here are the specific details:

https://www.medicare.gov/sites/default/files/2018-09/10050-medicare-and-you.pdf
 


thanks. i receive 3 hard copies each year, 1 each for those of us covered by medicare in my household. if people doubt my statement regarding the absence of an out of pocket annual maximum limit under Medicare they need only look on page 6 of what you've provided- under COST/ORIGINAL MEDICARE-


"For Part B-covered services, you usually pay 20% of the Medicare approved amount after you meet your deductible. You pay a premium (monthly payment) for Part B. If you choose to buy prescription drug coverage, you’ll pay that premium separately. There’s no yearly limit on what you pay out-of-pocket. ".

"You can buy supplemental coverage to help pay your out-of-pocket costs (like your deductible and 20% coinsurance)."


in addition to dealing with medicare AS current and fairly long term recipients i've also had the very unpleasant task of dealing with the final billing affairs for 2 family members who were covered by medicare at the end of their lives. despite my working professionally within the program previously and knowing it's payment rules-i was still amazed to see how much was owing on each parent's part.

While Medicare can cover a good portion of your health care expenses, you remain responsible for paying for a share of the costs. As such, expect to have out-of-pocket costs as a Medicare beneficiary. These costs come in a variety of forms and can be impacted by a variety of factors.

the 2 key factors anyone close to qualifying for medicare and weighing what type to take/if they want to get a supplement plan in addition is-

Annual out-of-pocket maximum: The maximum amount you must pay out of your own pocket each year before your Medicare plan pays 100% of your covered health-care expenses. Original Medicare doesn’t have an out-of-pocket annual maximum limit.

Plan maximum: The maximum amount of coverage provided by the Medicare insurance plan in a certain benefit period. You’ll be responsible for all costs once you reach this maximum.
 
It is about to come to a head in the Sacramento City Unified School District. Kids and some very hard working teachers are going to get hurt because the Union demanded, and got their last two contracts with pay and benefits that the district can't afford.
However, let's not lose sight of the fact that that is just a constructed narrative. The district "can't afford" whatever amount the government and voters neglect to approve for the budget. Harry S Truman famously had a placard on his desk that said, "The buck stops here." The point was that the higher authority is responsible for any limitations they put in place and maintain. The only thing that teacher salaries should be compared against is the cost of living at the standard one expects for those to whom they entrust their children. It is a realization that places accountability for everything that goes wrong in government where it belongs, first in the hands of legislators and executives, and then from there at the feet of the voters duped into making what in retrospect can be considered poor choices. Blaming teachers for wanting a fair wage is just scapegoating.
 
Yes! Many people nowadays live sooo differently than the previous generation. My parents had one car and it was 15 years old. They didn't have cellphone plans or $200 cable bills. They didn't take $5000 trips to Disney World, pay for lawn and cleaning services, manicures, massages, $5 cups of coffee or designer purses. They didn't put us kids in expensive camps or extracurriculars and they certainly wouldn't have bought us $100 Legos. They were savers and didn't spend more than they made. I think we can learn a lot from their frugality. So many in this generation want everything everyone else has, but want to complain when they have to pay for it and are living paycheck to paycheck. Incomes are higher now than ever but spending is way above inflation in terms of salary. I don't want to generalize, but I think we've created a generation that can't say no to anything and think they are entitled to everything whether they can afford it or not. There's another thread on these boards about who takes trips they can't afford and that answer would be obvious to previous generations. A lot of this overspending came along with credit cards. In my parents' day if they couldn't afford to pay cash for a vacation or new furniture then they didn't buy it. Anyone remember Christmas and vacation savings clubs at the bank lol? I think this country would be in a lot better shape fiscally if we went back to that mindset even if just a little bit!
I don’t disagree but there are a lot of us living out her who do live like that & are struggling every day. DH works a very good job for our area. I also have a respectable position with our state dept of health. We both have 2 college degrees & almost no debt (house, one new car). We don’t have cable. We both just replaced our iPhone 5. We put money in savings & retirement and pray our boys get scholarships. Between the 2 of us we’ve gotten 2 raises in 10 years. My car is an 09 with over 209K miles; DH got a new Mazda this year because His was over 250K and we knew it was time...i meal plan, use coupons & we cut out things like home phone service years ago. DS12 is mortified we got him a basic flip phone & not a fancy smartphone this year for his BDay. We take a Disney trip very 2 years and do smaller / cheaper vacations on the off-years. Things we buy cost more & more - example: we buy gallon water to drink bc our local water has for years ‘failed’ various tests (although cost of that water keeps going up & up). 2 years ago a gallon was 88¢. The 99¢. Now $1.10... my kids carry lunch; 2 years ago 99¢ for 10 pack of koolaod water packets. The 99¢ for an 8 pack. Now 1.10 for a 6 pack. These seem like minutiae but everything just about has gone up in total price or per unit cost & it’s slowing choking us. We barely keep our head above water and again have very good jobs compared to most in our community. ...we know without a doubt we are in a far better situation than almost all our close friends.
 
I feel like over the last three years my spending power is being reduced by this chipping away. I’m seeing gas prices continue to go up too.

But I see some big jumps too. I booked a flight that usually costs $400. This time it’s costing me $600 for the same flight that I took two years ago. These unexpected jumps come as a surprise.

This year I’m mainly doing camping trips with a short weekend trip to DL, which I expect to be pricey in the parks.
 
People seem to forget that taxes will go up if we have socialized healthcare so what's the difference if I pay 20% of my income for taxes or 20% of my income in healthcare costs. Sure it sounds all wonderful (until actual facts not emotions are considered) but if you're having trouble making ends meet then nothing will change. The only people who come out ahead are those who don't pay taxes or pay very little in taxes. And with some lawmakers suggesting Medicare and Social Security for non-citizens then there is no way the system will work if millions aren't even paying into the system at all.
 
Unemployment was 10% in the 80's when we started out compared to 3% now - when you think that one in ten people couldn't find a job, the economy today is much better than it was then. One of the biggest differences is college debt. There are some interesting articles out there spelling out how price college tuitions can affect someone's entire life and the fiscal future of our nation: https://studentloanhero.com/featured/effects-of-student-loan-debt-us-economy/
Yet we continue to let it happen and there seems to be no outrage to these universities who are making millions of dollars at our kids' expense. When corporate executives make seven figure incomes it's a public outcry yet many college presidents are earning just as much on the backs of young graduates. Many people want to say their kid is going to an ivy league or top school and don't think of the consequences for the children's future. There is so much written about the increase of healthcare yet the rise in tuition is a close second, and no one seems to be doing anything about it. Until we reach the point where we won't pay it (and we send our kids to public, community or trade schools) universities will continue to bleed our kids dry and farther pad their endowment funds which are already in the millions and millions of dollars.
 
The problem is the public sector is unwilling to pay the extremely high salaries it takes to get competent IT staff.
No, as my son found, public sector IT is VERY willing to pay high salaries.
 
However, let's not lose sight of the fact that that is just a constructed narrative. The district "can't afford" whatever amount the government and voters neglect to approve for the budget. Harry S Truman famously had a placard on his desk that said, "The buck stops here." The point was that the higher authority is responsible for any limitations they put in place and maintain. The only thing that teacher salaries should be compared against is the cost of living at the standard one expects for those to whom they entrust their children. It is a realization that places accountability for everything that goes wrong in government where it belongs, first in the hands of legislators and executives, and then from there at the feet of the voters duped into making what in retrospect can be considered poor choices. Blaming teachers for wanting a fair wage is just scapegoating.

They've got the same pot of money as any other district in California. ($10,291 per year per student) I don't think the pot is the issue, it is how it has been divided up.
 
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People seem to forget that taxes will go up if we have socialized healthcare so what's the difference if I pay 20% of my income for taxes or 20% of my income in healthcare costs. Sure it sounds all wonderful (until actual facts not emotions are considered) but if you're having trouble making ends meet then nothing will change. The only people who come out ahead are those who don't pay taxes or pay very little in taxes. And with some lawmakers suggesting Medicare and Social Security for non-citizens then there is no way the system will work if millions aren't even paying into the system at all.

And some how other developed countries survive. I don’t mind my taxes going up if the government puts in place cost controls around healthcare. Right now, it’s a big unknown how much more I’ll pay for healthcare each year.
 
People seem to forget that taxes will go up if we have socialized healthcare so what's the difference if I pay 20% of my income for taxes or 20% of my income in healthcare costs. Sure it sounds all wonderful (until actual facts not emotions are considered) but if you're having trouble making ends meet then nothing will change. The only people who come out ahead are those who don't pay taxes or pay very little in taxes. And with some lawmakers suggesting Medicare and Social Security for non-citizens then there is no way the system will work if millions aren't even paying into the system at all.

The issue is that if everyone is contributing (as in a tax based system) then the people who currently pay for health insurance won't be subsidizing the costs of uninsured people seeking emergency treatment for conditions that have gone untreated for too long. Its not an emotional argument, its an economic argument. You could say that people who don't pay taxes won't be contributing, but they are also likely to be uninsured or already on medicaid, so those of us who pay for insurance are already footing the bill for people in that situation. (Btw non-citizens working in the US, legal or illegal, do pay taxes and FICA the same as anyone else unless they are being paid under the table (which is the employer's fault, not the employee's). In addition, US companies would be more competitive because their labor costs would go down if they were no longer responsible for providing health insurance to their employees (which cost the company more every year as well).

How about the fact that contributions to Social Security/Medicare (FICA) stop after $110k of income. So a CEO who makes $5M a year is contributing the same amount to Medicare as an IT guy working for the state in CA. The tax rate on the IT guy making $110k (who is probably living a pretty middle class lifestyle in CA) is 7.65%, the rate on the CEO is a tenth of a percent. If you raised the income cap, it would go a long way to funding the current system, but then lawmakers (who tend to be high earners) would have to kick in more.

The other argument is that if care were standardized, costs would become more predictable and manageable, not to mention the reduction in administrative costs (just think about how much labor is involved in medical billing/collection/insurance administration). All of which would help bring down the overall cost of care. Cut out the middle man - that's an economic argument as well.

Personally, I would be happy to know that healthcare would always be available to me (and my kids) even if I lost my job or decided to start my own business or became disabled. I would happily pay the same amount in taxes as I do in health insurance costs to ensure that everyone was covered. And I work in the private sector, where I pay a substantial amount each pay period for health insurance/HSA funding to cover my high deductible.
 

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