Downward trend in runDisney?

[CDKG]

All great ideas, but unfortunately I do not see rD making any effort to fix the gulf between cost and value. The only way I see that happening is if numbers stay stagnant or continue to fall.

Races are already not selling out like they use to. You can still register for the Princess Half Marathon, and for Star Wars, everything other than the 10K is still available. rD use to have some pretty unique races (night W&D, Tower of Terror, Everest), but not so much anymore. At some point, they will need to figure out a way to entice people to get coming back or get excited for the next Disney race.

I know I really miss the uniqueness of Wine & Dine as a night race with an after party immediately after crossing the finish line! That race is the reason I started running 6 years ago. I never had a chance to run the ToT 10-miler and would be thrilled if that returned! ToT is my favorite WDW attraction, I enjoy the uniqueness of a night race, and...after party. Not to mention it had a great medal!

I love the classic theme of marathon weekend (like the Disneyland half marathon weekend in California). But, I think all other race weekends need something special so they stand out. The same morning start, same/similar course, 5k, 10k, half marathon and 10k/half challenge format just isn’t cutting it anymore.

 

[IamTrike]

When I have looked into the Space Coast Marathon in the past, they have a pretty cool looking multi year race challenge. If you run three races in four years, you get a challege medal. If you run all four races over four years, you get an additional challege medal. I would think rD could implement something like this fairly easily, and people would be all over it.

I think multi-year or multi-weekend challenges are really interesting. They have had coast to coast and castle to chateau, but I think more options like this would definitely be interesting. I also think having more variety in the challenges like the Rock-N-Roll series would add interest. For example offering additional medals for 2,3 and 4 halfs in a year.

Look into mixing up at least the half marathon course. Probably easier said than done because of course certifications. Part of the reason I am running the Star Wars Rival Weekend this year is that I have never run the course before that starts in the MK parking lot. If it were the same course as Marathon Weekend and Princess, I would probably pass.

Changing the courses doesn't seem to be too hard from a certification perspective. I think most years for Marathon weekend I check the UASTF site and there is a new certification because of small tweaks to the course. Drastic changes would be more difficult because of logistic issues around water stops, road closures and the need for large start/finish areas.

Change up the theming of some of the races each year. Maybe have the 10K be Toy Story themed one year, Incredibles another year, Minnie, etc.

They do this now for some of the races. For example at princess the 10k theme changes annually.

With Pandora now being complete at AK, I do not see why they cannot bring back the Expedition Everest Challenge. I never did that race, but it is one I would look into doing if it were ever brought back. With all the AK construction complete for now, I do not see why this cannot happen. I know it would mean closing AK early one night, but that is one night of the year.

I really miss Everest. It really offered something unique.

Would something like “frozen marathon weekend” work? I’m not sure.

Wasn't that 2010 and 2018

Outside of the big anniversary years, it's getting harder and harder for people to justify marathon weekend from a cost vs value perspective.

I think this is the crux of the issue. Disney as a company usually delivers a premium price product at a premium price point. I think there price point has gotten high enough that they likely need to start looking at additional things they can do to further increase the value of what they deliver. With the 20th anniversary marathon they started to increase the quality of the medals, (adding spinners, moving the 5k from medallions to actual medals and making more drastic design changes) and they added a the "ears" as a finisher surprise for the Marathon. Locally J&A racing and FS series and Medoc all do really nice finisher swag at a much lower price point than Disney. I can see RunDisney needing to continue to add in this area to justify the price point for their race.

Cost is the biggest barrier so fixing that is what they need to do. It could be lowering cost (unlikely) or closing the perceived gulf between cost and value.

I think perceived value is part of it, but I don't think cost itself is the issue. 18000 people still did the half this weekend and there is was not much of a price difference between the half and full. If cost itself was the issue we would have seen a similar drop in the half attendance. I think Dopey could be impacted by price, but it has other big commitments associated with it. It's a long time which means more time away from work, and more time in a hotel at Disney.

I think the perceived value gap is the bigger issue. In particular I think it's the perceived value gap for people that have already run 1 or more runDisney race weekends.

All this is assuming they want to increase the size of the field though. These races started as a way to get people to the parks at slow times and while there are slower times than others they don't really need to attract people. In the end I feel we are due for another recession. We have gone too long with a growing economy and need a correction. This will cause a dip in attendance and some deals and the people who are prepared for the coming recession can take advantage of them. That is really when we might start to see some deals and additions to try and get runners back in larger numbers or at last slow the decline.

I think that's a good point I'm sure runDisney has recieved a lot of complaints about crowding on the course and other issues. I wonder what their real target attendance for each given race weekend is.

Races are already not selling out like they use to. You can still register for the Princess Half Marathon, and for Star Wars, everything other than the 10K is still available. rD use to have some pretty unique races (night W&D, Tower of Terror, Everest), but not so much anymore. At some point, they will need to figure out a way to entice people to get coming back or get excited for the next Disney race.

To GreatLakes point above I think one question is whether runDisney actually views races not selling out as a problem. I know when I started running Disney races none of them sold out. So while we are discussing this the current attendance levels at races may not be a big deal to runDisney at all.

I don't think they would ever get rid of marathon weekend. That is their marquee event and has been around for 25 years. I don't see the marathon ever going away. They could take some of the other events from that weekend away if they dropped to really low numbers, but still keep the marathon.

In the future, the other weekends are up to debate. As long as they make money or break even, they will probably stick around.

I would be shocked if they did anything to Marathon Weekend or Princess.

I know I really miss the uniqueness of Wine & Dine as a night race with an after party immediately after crossing the finish line! That race is the reason I started running 6 years ago. I never had a chance to run the ToT 10-miler and would be thrilled if that returned! ToT is my favorite WDW attraction, I enjoy the uniqueness of a night race, and...after party. Not to mention it had a great medal!

TOT is one of the races that I wish I got to do before it was cancelled.

 

[Mark214]

I did the ToT 13K in 2007. Great medal, night race, included after party in MGM Studios, race fee under $100 and you got a code to buy a discounted park pass. I haven't run a Disney race since Goofy in 2010 and really have no interest in returning. I do not feel like you get value for your money given the race fee, cost of resort hotel and park tickets. Add on having to get up around 3am, while you are on vacation, no less, and it will take something extraordinary to get me back.

 

[Krandor]

I think part of it is just a trend in society in general.

We had a stretch for a few years where races were booming fueled a lot by some of "gimmick" races like color run, glow, run, etc. (and don't take that as a negative. i think anything that gets new people to run is good). OCRs were also a big part of that. There were also quite a few companies that wants to cash-in and be the next color run or spartan that failed.

I think in general though that phase has passed and the getting tons of new runners out for color run is behind us. The problem for Disney is that while we have a bunch of people who come year after year they are definitely one of these races who cater more to first time runners. My first half marathon was Disney. So they really feed off those first time runners and that number seems to be dropping a lot which is an issue for rundisney. I used to do a lot of races (and want to get back to that) I always looked at rundisney as my "fun" races.... never try for a PR or anything like that but just go have fun. There are plenty of races to do for time. So rundisney in general needs a different group of people a lot of which are going to be first timers and with that population dwindling it does affect rundisney.

 

[ckb_nc]

Ran many races; second runDisney event. Thankful to be in corral B for the half. I was leaving and watched the hordes running the overpass back to Epcot and it looked kind of miserable. 18K for a half marathon is great numbers. Always curious the number of locals (Epcot parking was pretty full for the half) versus out of town for these races as this is a big race weekend locally.

 

[jaxonp]

Ran many races; second runDisney event. Thankful to be in corral B for the half. I was leaving and watched the hordes running the overpass back to Epcot and it looked kind of miserable. 18K for a half marathon is great numbers. Always curious the number of locals (Epcot parking was pretty full for the half) versus out of town for these races as this is a big race weekend locally.

I know so many people that rent cars these days that don’t want to mess with Disney transportation for park use even though rd transportation is great.

 

[JB22]

I’m planning to buy a Rock ‘n’ Roll Tour pass tomorrow - mostly because I already have race plans for three of the weekends with friends, but also because it gives me a reason to check out new places for run trips.

At $599 for 10 RnR events of my choosing, it’s a great value to me. Plus, all the blings.

But it isnt at Disney

 

[JB22]

I think shaking up the theming for the 5k this year was just a start, I think it makes sense to shake up the race mascots and have different merchandise. I for 1 was disappointed with the shirts this year. Smaller logos and colors were bleh. I liked the Goofy Medal alot this year, but im still irritated the dopey medal doesnt have some color on dopey himself. he should be in full color like Lumiere and Cogsworth were for the challenge medal at W&D.

Cost is a biggie, its a huge investment to go and its continuing to creep up.

 

[ckb_nc]

I look at this differently - WDW has built an event on an otherwise slow time of the year into a large happening, that draws thousands of people to the parks and resorts. The Challenges are now somewhat legendary among endurance athletes, tons of money is raised for charities. they own the roads, the parks, everything - it runs like a well oiled machine. not sure they are going to change this a whole bunch until they have to. 20+k for the half is 4 million dollars. For one race. Add the dollars for all 4 races and the challenges and it a large revenue base execute the event.

What it made me realize actually is how lucky I am to have a local half marathon (like mile 11.5 is my house local) that is tun so well with a much smaller scale of revenue.

We should be glad we get to run through the parks (granted watching the sun rise over WDW was not my favorite way to experience that) and be glad we have the health to do it.

 

[jaxonp]

I think shaking up the theming for the 5k this year was just a start, I think it makes sense to shake up the race mascots and have different merchandise. I for 1 was disappointed with the shirts this year. Smaller logos and colors were bleh. I liked the Goofy Medal alot this year, but im still irritated the dopey medal doesnt have some color on dopey himself. he should be in full color like Lumiere and Cogsworth were for the challenge medal at W&D.

Cost is a biggie, its a huge investment to go and its continuing to creep up.

You can fly to many places in Europe for the cost of Dopey alone... take that flight to Paris and go to Parc Disneyland and run that race. It's much more affordable with better medals around 180 for the 3 race challenge. But buyer beware of the French aversion to organization because it's a real thing.

 

[JB22]

You can fly to many places in Europe for the cost of Dopey alone... take that flight to Paris and go to Parc Disneyland and run that race. It's much more affordable with better medals around 180 for the 3 race challenge. But buyer beware of the French aversion to organization because it's a real thing.

The medals for last years DLP race were very nice for sure. I dont think flying to paris is a comparably trip to going to Orlando for most though. I know it isnt for me.

 

[jaxonp]

The medals for last years DLP race were very nice for sure. I dont think flying to paris is a comparably trip to going to Orlando for most though. I know it isnt for me.

Once you add in the cost of dopey, tickets and hotel you’ll be surprised how much a trip is to WDW vs Paris. Paris can be done for less money with proper planning. WDW plus Dopey is very very expensive.

 

[Novatrix]

You can fly to many places in Europe for the cost of Dopey alone... take that flight to Paris and go to Parc Disneyland and run that race. It's much more affordable with better medals around 180 for the 3 race challenge. But buyer beware of the French aversion to organization because it's a real thing.

Having run both, I don't think there's even a comparison either in cost or in value.

• For context, my flight from NYC area to Orlando was $280, My flight from NYC area to CDG was $575
• The cost to run the 5k, 10k and half-marathon (which is what the 36k challenge is equivalent to, not Dopey) is $398. The 36k challenge is $206 this year (don't remember what it was last year.)
• The rooms in Disneyland Paris were the price of deluxe level resorts at Disney World, with less in room amenities than can be found at a Disney World budget resort.
• The restaurants at Disneyland Paris were horrendous and very expensive for barely edible buffets. In contrast, I have wonderful quick service restaurants at Disney World, as well as reasonably priced Table Service restaurants with great food.
• The customer service was horrible for both the hotels and the race organization in Disneyland Paris.
• On top of all that, if you do not speak French you will miss a lot both within the parks and during the races. Heck, they had Paula Radcliffe, a British superstar runner, give her entire pre-half marathon speech in French.

Yes, the shirts and medals were gorgeous at Disneyland Paris, and the half marathon going through the small French village was very picturesque, but I would never recommend those races above the Disney World races.

 

[rteetz]

Having run both, I don't think there's even a comparison either in cost or in value.

• For context, my flight from NYC area to Orlando was $280, My flight from NYC area to CDG was $575
• The cost to run the 5k, 10k and half-marathon (which is what the 36k challenge is equivalent to, not Dopey) is $398. The 36k challenge is $206 this year (don't remember what it was last year.)
• The rooms in Disneyland Paris were the price of deluxe level resorts at Disney World, with less in room amenities than can be found at a Disney World budget resort.
• The restaurants at Disneyland Paris were horrendous and very expensive for barely edible buffets. In contrast, I have wonderful quick service restaurants at Disney World, as well as reasonably priced Table Service restaurants with great food.
• The customer service was horrible for both the hotels and the race organization in Disneyland Paris.
• On top of all that, if you do not speak French you will miss a lot both within the parks and during the races. Heck, they had Paula Radcliffe, a British superstar runner, give her entire pre-half marathon speech in French.

Yes, the shirts and medals were gorgeous at Disneyland Paris, and the half marathon going through the small French village was very picturesque, but I would never recommend those races above the Disney World races.

Interesting.

Disneyland Paris is definitely a different market.

I know food at DLP is something that is being worked on. Many of the major dining locations are going for major renovations and overhauls. I have heard good things about Walt's though.

 

[jaxonp]

The food is terrible at Parc Disney no doubt but the customer service is just like anything you get at world these days... all over the place.

I booked my trip through Get Travel and the pricing was very affordable than booking directly through Disney. Rooms and tickets were heavily discounted. I stayed at Seqouia Lodge which was literally a 5 min walk to the corral and expo for an average of 280 a night through my TA. Disneyland Paris rd has a similar feel to Disneyland Races in terms of setup. Park tickets ( 2day park hooper $104 ), Race bibs are cheaper but your cost can skyrocket depending on choice of hotel and how it’s booked.

The added benefit of doing this race is that you can tack on a few days to visit Paris where you will have the best food and wine of your life. It’s only a 30-40 min ride on the RER A back to Paris. I highly recommend.

Bibs (36k challenge) $200
Tickets (2day hopper) $104
Room (3 nights) $866
Flights (from Chicago) $750

The room prices are on par with Orlando and I agree they are not as good of value for what you get but when you consider the hotels are all literally walkable to the races without any buses or other means of travel then you have some serious added value. Look at the price of that park hopper through Get Sports!!! 2 days less than one day in Orlando? Flights will be more but that’s to be expected.

 

[Novatrix]

Disneyland I know food at DLP is something that is being worked on. Many of the major dining locations are going for major renovations and overhauls. I have heard good things about Walt's though.

Admittedly, I didn't try Walt's but I did have the Inventions brunch which is supposed to be the best meal available at Disneyland Paris and came away with a "meh" impression. For the same price (once you include tip) I can have brunch at California Grill and be blown away. I did like Agrabah (though would've preferred to have a Tangerine Café equivalent) and Vapiano. All the rest were pretty bad.

@jaxonp We obviously are going to have different opinions on whether you should substitute a Paris race for an Orlando rundisney, but I do feel that if people are debating doing Castle to Chateau then they should make the decision with all the info. I would not say you should do the Paris ones because it's cheaper.

The food is terrible at Parc Disney no doubt but the customer service is just like anything you get at world these days... all over the place.

I still have yet to have a waiter need to leave the room at Disney World because they were laughing so hard because I had the audacity to show up at dinner in my race shirt and shorts and ask if there was a dress code to eat at the restaurant. Or waiting 10 minutes at the front desk, with no one else there, before a person even acknowledges me when it is literally empty and they were just talking with their friends. I don't expect magic in customer service, but I do expect politeness and somewhat timeliness.

I booked my trip through Get Travel and the pricing was very affordable than booking directly through Disney. Rooms and tickets were heavily discounted. I stayed at Seqouia Lodge which was literally a 5 min walk to the corral and expo for an average of 280 a night through my TA. Disneyland Paris rd has a similar feel to Disneyland Races in terms of setup. Park tickets ( 2day park hooper $104 ), Race bibs are cheaper but your cost can skyrocket depending on choice of hotel and how it’s booked.

I booked Newport Bay Club for 4 nights through Disney and because they were running a "Stay 2 nights, get 2 nights" deal, it was less expensive than Get travel. Less than 900 without the bib and park passes included. It was a nice resort by French standards, and I did enjoy the pool and spa areas, but the rooms lack a coffee maker, consistently working air conditioning and most importantly in my mind a mini-fridge. Now these are all consistent with French culture, but admittedly I never said I cared for French culture!

I don't often book cash rooms at Disney World, but the one time I did last year I was able to find POP for under $100 and POFQ for $120. I don't know too much about park hopper prices either, but I do know that Disney World has more that interests me between the 4 parks. Disneyland Paris is small, you can easily do everything within 2 days.

Being near Paris is only a perk if you like Paris. Again, people's mileage may vary. But if that's the case, people would be visiting France to see Paris and tacking on a rundisney race, which is not the same as visiting Orlando explicitly to see Disney World and complete a rundisney race. They are two different value propositions.

 

[mrsg00fy]

After having read the pros and cons and value comparisons here on rundisney Paris.....am I the only one who immediately tried to price it out for this year?

Rundisney sickness is real.

 

[jaxonp]

After having read the pros and cons and value comparisons here on rundisney Paris.....am I the only one who immediately tried to price it out for this year?

Rundisney sickness is real.

Do it. It's a load of fun. The course has the most park time of any RD race I've done including Anaheim races. Tip number 1, make sure to make eye contact and acknowledge anyone in service with a simple Bonjour or Bonsoir depending on the time of day. This will go along way to how your experience goes!

Can't recommend Get Travel enough, they made the whole thing seamless and the discounts for the rooms & park tickets cannot be beat. I would try to stay at Hotel Sante Fe or Hotel Cheyenne to keep the price down. These hotels are compatible to what you expect from the value resorts which is fine because at the end of the day you'll be exhausted from running and trying to see everything.. The only downside is the walk is a bit longer than the three resorts on the lake at Downtown Disney.

 

[LdyStormy76]

After having read the pros and cons and value comparisons here on rundisney Paris.....am I the only one who immediately tried to price it out for this year?

Rundisney sickness is real.

Yes, the addition is real. DH encouraged me to do the DLP 36k challenge last year even though it caused some travel challenges. I stayed at Sequoia, and booked the entire weekend (hotel, tickets, 36k challenge, part board and their version of magical express) directly with DLP during the same stay 2 nights, get 2 nights offer as NovatrixIf you are seriously thinking about doing it read the 2018 Disneyland Paris run thread so you know the issues that occurred; I covered some of them in my race report in the 2018 running thread too. Feel free to pm me if you want to and I can give you costs.

 

[flav]

After having read the pros and cons and value comparisons here on rundisney Paris.....am I the only one who immediately tried to price it out for this year?

Rundisney sickness is real.

Already priced it last year... Saving my money for Dopey 2020. It as doozy.