Do we really need instant election returns? (About voting, not politics.)

[LSUmiss]

I don't show an ID to vote. I never, even once, have worried or thought that someone was going to vote in my name. I have no reason to think that. That's like thinking that because I leave my house for work in the morning, someone is going to look up my address on Google and come steal things from my house. Just because the information exists doesn't mean we should assume that it's going to be used to take advantage of us. If there were evidence of someone trying to steal my vote, maybe I'd feel differently. I've never had a reason to believe that it was a valid concern, and I've never had an issue voting for myself without an ID.

I do thank you for questioning my rationality and judgement, though!

And it’s about the greater good too. It’s far more likely that legit ppl will be prohibited from voting than a handful of ppl who may fraudulently vote in someone else’s name b/c ID is not required.

 

[LongLiveRafiki]

I don't show an ID to vote. I never, even once, have worried or thought that someone was going to vote in my name. I have no reason to think that. That's like thinking that because I leave my house for work in the morning, someone is going to look up my address on Google and come steal things from my house. Just because the information exists doesn't mean we should assume that it's going to be used to take advantage of us. If there were evidence of someone trying to steal my vote, maybe I'd feel differently. I've never had a reason to believe that it was a valid concern, and I've never had an issue voting for myself without an ID.

I do thank you for questioning my rationality and judgement, though!

I'm guessing you showed an ID to register to vote, as New York verifies identification to process the registration. For those that do not provide an ID to register to vote in NY, they will be asked for ID at the polls. Point is, an ID is still needed.

And a simple Google search can provide examples of people who have tried to vote and been told that someone has already done so in their name. Heck, it's even been reported that it's happened to a relative of someone on this thread. If you choose not to worry about voter fraud, that's fine, but your lack of concern doesn't negate its existence.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I thought that made sense too until I realized how many ppl were adversely affected by this & understood the motivation behind its origins. Literacy tests might have seemed innocuous to some too & touted as necessary that ppl understand what they’re voting for, but we all know what that was about now.

I’m of the mindset that we don’t toss out a good idea just because we distrust the motivation behind it. Find a way to make the idea work while neutralizing the potential for ulterior motivation.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

I live in an area of Pennsylvania where the congressional district changed. And our old representative resigned in May. We had two elections for our representative:

• One for the new district, for the term starting in January.
• A special election for the old district, to fill in for the resigned congressman. The term starts ASAP and ends in January.

Ballots for the special election are still being counted. The person ahead in the special election changed as of yesterday. That's fine. Just tell me when it's done.

 

[LongLiveRafiki]

Of course, it's my opinion. Many feel differently, many also agree. That's how opinions work.

I also agree that we should be focusing on providing resources to those who need them. That's a huge part of all of this. But again, it's not an ignorance of a law if it isn't actually a law where you live.

A large number of states do require identification at the polls though. And for many of those that don't, they require ID to register to vote or require it for the first time you go to the polls if you don't provide ID when you register.

 

[Ben E N]

You need ID to buy a gun and that’s constitutionally protected. It’s not a valid argument.

That is not a constitutional right. Bearing arms and buying them are different things...

 

[FlightlessDuck]

That is not a constitutional right. Bearing arms and buying them are different things...

Doesn't that seem pretty messed up, though?

https://democracyjournal.org/magazine/28/the-missing-right-a-constitutional-right-to-vote/

Note: I'm on the we shouldn't need to have id to vote train. But the fact that voting isn't constitutionally protected (other than the fact that votings rights ... whatever they are ... must be equal for other ctiizens) is messed up.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

That is not a constitutional right. Bearing arms and buying them are different things...

I think it’s a bit of a stretch to say keeping & bearing is a right, but purchasing is not.

 

[LSUmiss]

I think it’s a bit of a stretch to say keeping & bearing is a right, but purchasing is not.

My gun was given to me by my father for protection. He did not check my ID. I have a right to own that gun, but I didn’t buy it.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

My gun was given to me by my father for protection. He did not check my ID. I have a right to own that gun, but I didn’t buy it.

The fact you did not buy it doesn’t have anything to do with your right (or lack thereof) TO buy it.

 

[LSUmiss]

The fact you did not buy it doesn’t have anything to do with your right (or lack thereof) TO buy it.

Right but in discussing that right compared to voting rights. I can exercise my constitutional right to own a gun without an ID, but in some states, I can’t exercise my constitutional right to vote without one.

 

[lifesavacation]

That is not a constitutional right. Bearing arms and buying them are different things...

Haha. It’s part and parcel and has been upheld in the Courts. A game of semantics over bear/purchase really weakens your opinion, honestly.

Stick to your argument that asking for ID puts up a barrier. That’s at least a legitimate reason.

 

[Ben E N]

Haha. It’s part and parcel and has been upheld in the Courts. A game of semantics over bear/purchase really weakens your opinion, honestly.

Stick to your argument that asking for ID puts up a barrier. That’s at least a legitimate reason.

I don't even know what argument you are referring to. I was just pointing out that owning and purchasing are not one in the same.

 

[CarolAnn856]

I’m of the mindset that we don’t toss out a good idea just because we distrust the motivation behind it. Find a way to make the idea work while neutralizing the potential for ulterior motivation.

I'm of the mindset that, even if one doesn't initially realize something has a negative effect, continuing to defend it once one does learn makes one part of the problem.

I used to think that requiring ID to vote made sense. However, once I learned that it has a huge negative impact on minority communities and is virtually pointless, I changed my mind.

Even the most, shall we say, concerned, websites only point to a little over 1000 instances of voter fraud...over the last 18 years!! It's unconscionable to argue for these ID measures that severely restrict certain groups' right to vote for such a minuscule problem. People who advocate getting ID laws in place need to work on fixing the problem of ease of access to getting an ID first if it's so important to them.

As far as problems with our elections, one of the other major concerns is voter access to polling places. Problems like counties shutting down many polling sites in high-minority areas, or only providing 10% of promised voting booths to high-traffic high-minority locations needs to be corrected.

 

[LongLiveRafiki]

I'm of the mindset that, even if one doesn't initially realize something has a negative effect, continuing to defend it once one does learn makes one part of the problem.

I used to think that requiring ID to vote made sense. However, once I learned that it has a huge negative impact on minority communities and is virtually pointless, I changed my mind.

Even the most, shall we say, concerned, websites only point to a little over 1000 instances of voter fraud...over the last 18 years!! It's unconscionable to argue for these ID measures that severely restrict certain groups' right to vote for such a minuscule problem. People who advocate getting ID laws in place need to work on fixing the problem of ease of access to getting an ID first if it's so important to them.

As far as problems with our elections, one of the other major concerns is voter access to polling places. Problems like counties shutting down many polling sites in high-minority areas, or only providing 10% of promised voting booths to high-traffic high-minority locations needs to be corrected.

How many people really do not have some form of identification and are not able to procure one but are also otherwise eligible to vote? Who are these people? What is it that is preventing them from obtaining one?

 

[LongLiveRafiki]

Here's just one site that talks about numerous cases of voter fraud.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.wa...er-fraud-isnt-myth-10-cases-where-its-all-to/

It's far more than 1000 cases of voter fraud over the last 18 yrs... And these are just a few of the cases singled out for this article, and there are likely loads more that slipped through the cracks.

 

[sam_gordon]

Here's just one site that talks about numerous cases of voter fraud.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.wa...er-fraud-isnt-myth-10-cases-where-its-all-to/

It's far more than 1000 cases of voter fraud over the last 18 yrs... And these are just a few of the cases singled out for this article, and there are likely loads more that slipped through the cracks.

That article pointed out voter fraud in Colorado. BUT Colorado requires ID to vote.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Right but in discussing that right compared to voting rights. I can exercise my constitutional right to own a gun without an ID, but in some states, I can’t exercise my constitutional right to vote without one.

IMO, that’s a stretch. Plus, we’re getting really off topic.

 

[LongLiveRafiki]

That article pointed out voter fraud in Colorado. BUT Colorado requires ID to vote.

They allow for things like a utility bill or Medicaid card to be provided as ID... Which is likely why there were deceased people voting. That highlights that voter fraud does happen and there needs to be ways to ensure that only those ALIVE and eligible to vote can do so or there will be fraud.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I'm of the mindset that, even if one doesn't initially realize something has a negative effect, continuing to defend it once one does learn makes one part of the problem.

I used to think that requiring ID to vote made sense. However, once I learned that it has a huge negative impact on minority communities and is virtually pointless, I changed my mind.

Even the most, shall we say, concerned, websites only point to a little over 1000 instances of voter fraud...over the last 18 years!! It's unconscionable to argue for these ID measures that severely restrict certain groups' right to vote for such a minuscule problem. People who advocate getting ID laws in place need to work on fixing the problem of ease of access to getting an ID first if it's so important to them.

As far as problems with our elections, one of the other major concerns is voter access to polling places. Problems like counties shutting down many polling sites in high-minority areas, or only providing 10% of promised voting booths to high-traffic high-minority locations needs to be corrected.

I think everyone recognizes the potential downside, whether they’re willing to admit it or not. We all also recognize the not so nice motivation behind requiring an ID and the equally not so nice reasons for fighting so hard to avoid this requirement - again, whether anyone wants to admit either of these or not.

It’s your opinion there’s no real upside, and you’re certainly entitled to that opinion. I disagree. Maybe one of us is right & the other wrong. Maybe we’re both a little right AND a little wrong.

I do believe failing to possess proper identification creates all sorts of headaches, many of which lead directly to the very reasons it’s supposedly a hardship to obtain an ID. And I believe if the goal is to actually HELP these people, we should put some effort into getting them the tools necessary to lawfully function as an adult in our country, including proper identification. And that should be a priority for all, NOT just those who believe requiring an ID to vote is a good idea.

I do agree the same polling places time after time are understaffed, too crowded, and otherwise needlessly inconvenient which obviously can deter voters. And it should be a priority to fix these situations.