Do we really need instant election returns? (About voting, not politics.)

[kandb]

An excuse for what? What about the paper work required to get that ID?? What if you moved multiple times to different states? What if you lost your documents needed to get that ID in a fire, natural disaster, etc & an important election is coming up. Just b/c you have been fortunate enough to never have experienced these types of circumstances or have had the resources to easily overcome them, doesn’t mean many many others are as fortunate as you. Everything is not always black & white. In fact, I would argue most things are grey.

You could use this same argument for anything that requires an ID. Sorry, but worrying about documents lost in a natural disaster are such a small percentage of people affected, and if they lost their "ID", then they wouldn't be able to drive etc. Once you get and "ID", you really wouldn't need your documents anymore (birth certificate, marriage license, etc). People who get food stamps, licenses, ID to go to the doctor, ALL need proof of who they are.

 

[kandb]

Still doesn’t mean they should be stripped of their construction right to vote. I’m not saying the way many of these ppl function is ok, but they’re out there & still have rights.

Yes, all US citizens have rights but we all have to follow the LAW also.

 

[kandb]

Still doesn’t mean they should be stripped of their construction right to vote. I’m not saying the way many of these ppl function is ok, but they’re out there & still have rights.

AND nobody is stripping them of their right to vote but in the future they might have to show ID. It's the only way to keep the election system honest, Especially with races that are so close these days.

 

[LSUmiss]

You could use this same argument for anything that requires an ID. Sorry, but worrying about documents lost in a natural disaster are such a small percentage of people affected, and if they lost their "ID", then they wouldn't be able to drive etc. Once you get and "ID", you really wouldn't need your documents anymore (birth certificate, marriage license, etc). People who get food stamps, licenses, ID to go to the doctor, ALL need proof of who they are.

Not in this area...at least not for years after Katrina. Ppl had to go to Baton Rouge b/c many records here flooded too. That’s an hr & 1/2 from here & requires transportation.

 

[LSUmiss]

Yes, all US citizens have rights but we all have to follow the LAW also.

But in many places the ID “law” is relatively new & intended to prevent certain populations from voting.

 

[kandb]

You proposed an entire rewrite of the election system. As extreme as that proposal was, I was trying to make sure that there was actually some evidence of need before a large step like that was taken. While our current electoral system may have its flaws, I think a total rewrite of it would cause many more problems than it would solve, considering the problems you listed were hypothetical and not something that anybody has actually observed.

Who is policing our electoral system? I do not have confidence that there are checks and balances in the current system. Yes, I do believe there are major problems with the system many states have now. Look at Florida now and Georgia. Most of the people I know share my concern with the current state of our electoral system.

 

[kandb]

But in many places the ID “law” is relatively new & intended to prevent certain populations from voting.

Sorry, that is a myth. NO one would be excluded from voting. Just get an ID if you do not have one (and the amount of people who do not have a picture ID is probably miniscule). Believe me it's not as difficult as you are making it out to be.

 

[Boardwalk Jedi]

Sorry, that is a myth. NO one would be excluded from voting. Just get an ID if you do not have one (and the amount of people who do not have a picture ID is probably miniscule). Believe me it's not as difficult as you are making it out to be.

Really? You might want to do some reading. Look at what the North Dakota state legislature did to make voting inconvenient for Native Americans. Look at the potential governor of Georgia's tactics. And again....why would some legislators in North Carolina have a problem with college ID's being used?

 

[skyblue17]

Sorry, that is a myth. NO one would be excluded from voting. Just get an ID if you do not have one (and the amount of people who do not have a picture ID is probably miniscule). Believe me it's not as difficult as you are making it out to be.

Sorry, but you really do seem to be underestimating just how difficult it is for some communities to do things that many would find simple. And let's be honest, going through getting brand new documentation is not easy even when you have the flexibility, transportation, financial requirements, etc. Believe me, it is not as easy as you seem to think it is. I didn't get a driver's license until I was 19. I had a family and the resources to know that I SHOULD get a State ID and I did. I don't think you are realizing just how many young people might not even KNOW they can/should do this, let alone have the resources to do it. And that's just one subset of people who might not have IDs.

Also, seeing as it is NOT a law to have an ID to vote in a good number of places, nor should it be anywhere, no one is disobeying the law in not having an ID and still expecting to use their right to vote.

 

[Oliviaxxx]

Sorry, but you really do seem to be underestimating just how difficult it is for some communities to do things that many would find simple. And let's be honest, going through getting brand new documentation is not easy even when you have the flexibility, transportation, financial requirements, etc. Believe me, it is not as easy as you seem to think it is. I didn't get a driver's license until I was 19. I had a family and the resources to know that I SHOULD get a State ID and I did. I don't think you are realizing just how many young people might not even KNOW they can/should do this, let alone have the resources to do it. And that's just one subset of people who might not have IDs.

Also, seeing as it is NOT a law to have an ID to vote in a good number of places, nor should it be anywhere, no one is disobeying the law in not having an ID and still expecting to use their right to vote.

It should be a law. Things need to change. It needs to happen. As long as you know someone's name and address you can vote for them. These days all that info is online. I can vote as myself and then drive to another polling station and vote as someone else, and I could literally do that all day. It is mind-blowing!

 

[skyblue17]

It should be a law. Things need to change. It needs to happen. As long as you know someone's name and address you can vote for them. These days all that info is online. I can vote as myself and then drive to another polling station and vote as someone else, and I could literally do that all day. It is mind-blowing!

Can you point me to research showing how often this happens? I would think it'd be a pretty widespread if people were showing up to vote only to find that they can't because someone else already voted as them but I haven't heard much about that happening.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Unfortunately, all that many people will take from your post is that those without "proper ID" are scammers, and that if the library requires ID, then so should the voting booth. I know that wasn't your intent, and I know that what I wrote is definitely not the case, but I do know that's what a lot of people think.

I think if you’ve made a conscious choice to operate outside the system, you need to live with that choice.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Sorry, that is a myth. NO one would be excluded from voting. Just get an ID if you do not have one (and the amount of people who do not have a picture ID is probably miniscule). Believe me it's not as difficult as you are making it out to be.

I just want to say that's not necessarily HOW voter ID laws have been used. That's part of the reason people have issues with them. The concept isn't an issue for me personally. I see no problems with showing my ID to vote. But if a place is making it much more difficult purposefully, that's where the issue becomes.

It's a bit hard to discuss in-depth here, but if you'd like more information on it people have talked about ND but you can also look up on KS and issues they've had leading up to the 2016 election and the courts ruling on it.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

And there are a lot of poor in my city & in surrounding rural areas who can’t afford a car so there is no need for a deiver’s license.

Even without a license, which many wealthy don’t have either, there are a dozen different reasons you need proper ID in day to day life.

 

[lifesavacation]

None of those things are constitutionally protected rights.

You need ID to buy a gun and that’s constitutionally protected. It’s not a valid argument.

 

[LongLiveRafiki]

Sorry, but you really do seem to be underestimating just how difficult it is for some communities to do things that many would find simple. And let's be honest, going through getting brand new documentation is not easy even when you have the flexibility, transportation, financial requirements, etc. Believe me, it is not as easy as you seem to think it is. I didn't get a driver's license until I was 19. I had a family and the resources to know that I SHOULD get a State ID and I did. I don't think you are realizing just how many young people might not even KNOW they can/should do this, let alone have the resources to do it. And that's just one subset of people who might not have IDs.

Also, seeing as it is NOT a law to have an ID to vote in a good number of places, nor should it be anywhere, no one is disobeying the law in not having an ID and still expecting to use their right to vote.

It's your opinion that ID should not be required to vote. Many others feel differently. Many states do require ID to vote or to register to vote. If it's required by the state, then no, someone is not disobeying the law by expecting to vote without an ID, but that doesn't mean that they will be an exception and permitted to vote without following the requirements.

If someone is unaware that they should have an ID or how to get one, then perhaps we should focus more on getting this info out there, as having an ID will likely aid them in far more things in life than just voting. Ignorance of laws and rules does not make one exempt from following them.

 

[skyblue17]

It's your opinion that ID should not be required to vote. Many others feel differently. Many states do require ID to vote or to register to vote. If it's required by the state, then no, someone is not disobeying the law by expecting to vote without an ID, but that doesn't mean that they will be an exception and permitted to vote without following the requirements.

If someone is unaware that they should have an ID or how to get one, then perhaps we should focus more on getting this info out there, as having an ID will likely aid them in far more things in life than just voting. Ignorance of laws and rules does not make one exempt from following them.

Of course, it's my opinion. Many feel differently, many also agree. That's how opinions work.

I also agree that we should be focusing on providing resources to those who need them. That's a huge part of all of this. But again, it's not an ignorance of a law if it isn't actually a law where you live.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I find the idea that one should be able to vote, or many other things, without identification to be, very questionable. (trying to put this in very careful words)
I might apologize for this, but I would have to question the rationality and judgement of anyone who holds this view.

 

[skyblue17]

I find the idea that one should be able to vote, or many other things, without identification to be, very questionable. (trying to put this in very careful words)
I might apologize for this, but I would have to question the rationality and judgement of anyone who holds this view.

I don't show an ID to vote. I never, even once, have worried or thought that someone was going to vote in my name. I have no reason to think that. That's like thinking that because I leave my house for work in the morning, someone is going to look up my address on Google and come steal things from my house. Just because the information exists doesn't mean we should assume that it's going to be used to take advantage of us. If there were evidence of someone trying to steal my vote, maybe I'd feel differently. I've never had a reason to believe that it was a valid concern, and I've never had an issue voting for myself without an ID.

I do thank you for questioning my rationality and judgement, though!

 

[LSUmiss]

I find the idea that one should be able to vote, or many other things, without identification to be, very questionable. (trying to put this in very careful words)
I might apologize for this, but I would have to question the rationality and judgement of anyone who holds this view.

I thought that made sense too until I realized how many ppl were adversely affected by this & understood the motivation behind its origins. Literacy tests might have seemed innocuous to some too & touted as necessary that ppl understand what they’re voting for, but we all know what that was about now.