Do we really need instant election returns? (About voting, not politics.)

[Oliviaxxx]

Obtaining a ID creates an "undue burden?" Sorry but that is ridiculous. ID's are not expensive and I find it very hard to believe that the vast majority of Americans don't have one. If someone wants to vote, they can get a county ID, make it $5 then or some other low amount. Now a days, I don't see anyone who doesn't have a cell phone, don't believe that someone can't afford a cheap ID. That's just an excuse.

I too refuse to believe that the majority of Americans do not have an ID. You need it for so many things. People go through their entire life without have identification? How do they do anything? It is unreal to say that you cannot ask for ID to vote in an election. To me it is crazy and I am blown away that polling stations do not ask for it. As long as you know the name and address of someone (easily found online) you can go vote in their place. I can drive to this town and use this person vote and then I can drive a town over and do it again. That is crazy to me.

 

[kandb]

Every time I go to the doctor, I have to show a picture ID, add that one to the list. Keep the election process honest and make anyone who wants to vote, provide a picture ID.

 

[Ben E N]

Who is really checking on these elected officials, who run a whole county of their election results, to see if they are being honest? One recent Florida county would not give officials access to observe what is going on in the county (which is very questionable, if you read what things are going on). I think anyone who believes no illegal activities could be going on within the election system is living in denial, especially in the extremely heated political environment in our country.

So, just to make sure, you are not aware of any actual case of vote tampering, or allowing illegal votes to count. Instead, you are just convinced that there is a flaw in the system that people are absolutely exploiting to such a degree that it gets their preferred candidates into office without anybody else noticing. All while being done in an extremely heated political climate where every citizen questions the working of every elected official.
While that is technically possible, it's not going to keep me up at night anytime soon.

 

[georgina]

I don't think anyone said a majority of Americans do not have ID. But there may well be a significant number who do not, several examples have been provided in this thread, and they too have a right to vote. It is sometimes hard to imagine how the poorest members of our communities get by without ID, yet many do.

I work elections in my relatively affluent area, and encounter this attitude (that everyone has ID!) all the time. Just because you can't imagine something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

[LongLiveRafiki]

I don't think anyone said a majority of American do not have ID. But there may well be a significant number who do not, several examples have been provided in this thread, and they too have a right to vote. It is sometimes hard to imagine how the poorest members of our communities get by without ID, yet many do

But there are almost always resources available to help them to get an ID. If voting is important to them and an ID is required, then they can use those resources.

 

[kandb]

So, just to make sure, you are not aware of any actual case of vote tampering, or allowing illegal votes to count. Instead, you are just convinced that there is a flaw in the system that people are absolutely exploiting to such a degree that it gets their preferred candidates into office without anybody else noticing. All while being done in an extremely heated political climate where every citizen questions the working of every elected official.
While that is technically possible, it's not going to keep me up at night anytime soon.

Talk about exaggerating what I said to the millionth degree. Voter ID should be required IMO and if a county/city is doing questionable things and not following the law, yes then someone should be able to step in to question and observe what is going on. What would they have to hide if they are following the law? Honest people don't try to hide. What is going on in Florida is a disgrace and makes all American's question our election system. It's an eye opener though, which is good to get the system to work honestly/correctly.

 

[LSUmiss]

Obtaining a ID creates an "undue burden?" Sorry but that is ridiculous. ID's are not expensive and I find it very hard to believe that the vast majority of Americans don't have one. If someone wants to vote, they can get a county ID, make it $5 then or some other low amount. Now a days, I don't see anyone who doesn't have a cell phone, don't believe that someone can't afford a cheap ID. That's just an excuse.

An excuse for what? What about the paper work required to get that ID?? What if you moved multiple times to different states? What if you lost your documents needed to get that ID in a fire, natural disaster, etc & an important election is coming up. Just b/c you have been fortunate enough to never have experienced these types of circumstances or have had the resources to easily overcome them, doesn’t mean many many others are as fortunate as you. Everything is not always black & white. In fact, I would argue most things are grey.

 

[Oliviaxxx]

An excuse for what? What about the paper work required to get that ID?? What if you moved multiple times to different states? What if you lost your documents needed to get that ID in a fire, natural disaster, etc & an important election is coming up. Just b/c you have been fortunate enough to never have experienced these types of circumstances or have had the resources to easily overcome them, doesn’t mean many many others are as fortunate as you. Everything is not always black & white. In fact, I would argue most things are grey.

You are required to update your Driver's License within 30 days of moving to a new address. Every state requires you to update your address in a timely manner. You know when elections are coming up. It isn't exactly a surprise. If voting is important to you, you will make sure your address is updated in time. The people we are talking about are not the people who have just been through a disaster and no longer have the documentation. We are talking about people who claim they have never had a government ID and have absolutely no means to pursue one. Losing it in a natural disaster is a different circumstance then someone who just never got one period.

 

[L&Lfan]

Last year I voted early cause I would be in WDW on Election Day. NJ forbids voter IDs. Yet I needed a photo ID to get into the municipal building where early voting takes place. Explain THAT one to me, folks!

 

[lifesavacation]

Last year I voted early cause I would be in WDW on Election Day. NJ forbids voter IDs. Yet I needed a photo ID to get into the municipal building where early voting takes place. Explain THAT one to me, folks!

Thanks for making me smile tonight

 

[Ben E N]

Talk about exaggerating what I said to the millionth degree. Voter ID should be required IMO and if a county/city is doing questionable things and not following the law, yes then someone should be able to step in to question and observe what is going on. What would they have to hide if they are following the law? Honest people don't try to hide. What is going on in Florida is a disgrace and makes all American's question our election system. It's an eye opener though, which is good to get the system to work honestly/correctly.

You proposed an entire rewrite of the election system. As extreme as that proposal was, I was trying to make sure that there was actually some evidence of need before a large step like that was taken. While our current electoral system may have its flaws, I think a total rewrite of it would cause many more problems than it would solve, considering the problems you listed were hypothetical and not something that anybody has actually observed.

 

[LSUmiss]

Don't know how gun issues are even anything to do with this....
But, the obvious and not so thinly veiled introduction of not-allowed political topics/agendas has not escaped my notice.

I don't know anybody who would not support basic, and verifiable, registration to vote in elections, or to buy/own firearms. I would have to assume that anybody would object to that had so not-so noble reasons for wanting to own guns, or to vote.

Registration and limitations are two very different things.

I don't want anybody to be able to just walk up and vote, just as I also do not want anybody to walk up to a counter and walk away with a gun.
I do not see basic identification and registration as any restriction, whatsoever, in any way.

I do NOT see any double standard here, AT ALL.
Just don't even go there.

Like the 6th post that bolded the comment every “legal” vote counted? I believe that is when the discussion morphed.

 

[LSUmiss]

Most people have ID. It's the photo ID they might not have. In various cities, there is no reason to have a driver's license which is what most people resort to.

Slightly off topic...I'm not sure if this went through or not, but I read in North Carolina, they require photo ID, but the legislature will not allow college ID's even from in state schools. That's insane and hopefully not true.

And there are a lot of poor in my city & in surrounding rural areas who can’t afford a car so there is no need for a deiver’s license.

 

[LSUmiss]

Eh, the ID is $11, but you're not counting the cost of all the extra documents you have to have in order to successfully complete the application, if you don't happen to have them to hand:



So, a MO birth certificate copy is $15, and if you don't request it in person you have to have the request notarized, which is an extra $2 *if* you can find a notary public. You're also going to have to pay the fee by check or money order in that case, and if you are unbanked, a money order means a trip to Schnucks where they will charge you $5 for it (or if you have a WalMart handy, $.70.) If you need to prove the name change, too, that's another $15 for a certified copy of the record.

If you don't know your SSN and you don't have a license, getting that information requires appearing in person at the Social Security office. Being familiar with the lines there, the cost is a half-day's pay, plus perhaps bus fare and 2 hours in transit to get there and back home, so that's a minimum of $3 in cash (that's from MY neighborhood. From YOUR neighborhood it would probably be much pricier, since BiState doesn't serve much of your neck of the woods.)

If you are unemployed and live with a relative, you are unlikely to have a utility bill, bank statement or pay check with your name on it. I suppose official mail from a public assistance agency would do, but notice they don't mention that (and these days it's harder to get those. Even unemployment benefits are handled fully online.)

So, if you don't have the above documents where you can lay your hands on them (and many, many people do not), then it's at least a full day's effort and about $30 at minimum. For a single adult in poverty, $30 is probably a week's groceries, and you are lucky if you don't get docked a day's pay if you take time off to do all that. I'd say that having to forego a week's food in order to get an ID would classify as a hardship.

Even if 1/4 of 1% of a metro area the size of ours falls into this category, that's almost 7,000 people, or 13X more than the Florida margin that elected Bush 43.

Exactly. And I’ll admit I used to think well sure you should have to show an ID to vote what’s the big deal until I understood how many ppl this affects b/c of the examples you gave. I think the issue is, like so many other things, ppl who are fortunate enough to have basic resources & opportunities have no idea how ppl without these things live and/or how many ppl there are like this in the US.

 

[LSUmiss]

Again though, how exactly does one manage to get through life as an adult, one probably depending on some sort of gov’t aid, sans all these documents?

Unfortunately, many don’t really “get through life”. Most days are filled with chaos & dysfunction, but while that’s a problem, I don’t believe it should be enough to strip them of their constitutional right to vote.

 

[LSUmiss]

You can say the sky is polka-dotted stripes, too. Doesn't make it accurate.

...more importantly saying “I don’t know anyone who...” drives home the point IMO. So many can’t understand how others outside of their bubble have to live.

 

[LSUmiss]

Unfortunately, all that many people will take from your post is that those without "proper ID" are scammers, and that if the library requires ID, then so should the voting booth. I know that wasn't your intent, and I know that what I wrote is definitely not the case, but I do know that's what a lot of people think.

Still doesn’t mean they should be stripped of their construction right to vote. I’m not saying the way many of these ppl function is ok, but they’re out there & still have rights.

 

[LSUmiss]

You should need an ID to vote in an election. You need an ID to order a drink, to buy cigarettes, to open a bank account, to apply for food stamps, apply for welfare, apply for social security, apply for unemployment, apply for a job, rent or buy a house, apply for a mortgage, drive/buy/rent a car, get on an airplane, get married, rent a hotel room, visit a casino, to buy certain flu medicine at the pharmacy, but you don't need one to vote? It makes no sense.

You can go to CVS and buy Nyquil and get carded. On the way home, you stop to vote for the future of your country and aren't asked for any identification. Weird right.

My uncle lived in the same house as his mom. She died right before the last presidential election. The night of voting my uncle went to vote and it said my dead grandmother had voted. Someone signed her name and everything. My boss's wife went to go vote once and it said that she had already voted. There is corruption. It exists.

None of those things are constitutionally protected rights.

 

[LSUmiss]

But there are almost always resources available to help them to get an ID. If voting is important to them and an ID is required, then they can use those resources.

Resources are severely under funded in most areas & leave huge gaps in populations underserved. It’s cute that you’re able to believe otherwise.

 

[LongLiveRafiki]

Resources are severely under funded in most areas & leave huge gaps in populations underserved. It’s cute that you’re able to believe otherwise.

How about presenting an argument without condescension and insults. This will not get others to agree with you.