Do we really need instant election returns? (About voting, not politics.)

[CarolAnn856]

How many people really do not have some form of identification and are not able to procure one but are also otherwise eligible to vote? Who are these people? What is it that is preventing them from obtaining one?

I'm short on time, but there have been numerous posts on this thread that answer your question.

 

[hopemax]

That article pointed out voter fraud in Colorado. BUT Colorado requires ID to vote.

They allow for things like a utility bill or Medicaid card to be provided as ID... Which is likely why there were deceased people voting. That highlights that voter fraud does happen and there needs to be ways to ensure that only those ALIVE and eligible to vote can do so or there will be fraud.

Since I live in Colorado... The story came out due to an investigation from a local TV station. They discovered 78 dead people (and perhaps more) were still on the active voter rolls. And a few of those had cast ballots. Two were a husband and wife, votes were cast via absentee mail-in ballot. Another dead voter, they did not say how the vote the cast, a 3rd was at a polling place, but they say the "Administrators with the Secretary of State’s Office believe Grosso’s vote may have been an error by an election judge." I'm not sure what that means. Could it be some other John Grosso voted but the voted got recorded as the dead John Grosso?

The story points out the issue is the process in which dead voters are removed from the rolls. If there is a typo or a discrepancy than the person stays on the rolls. The story also points out that in the last election cycle, 2 million votes were cast.

https://denver.cbslocal.com/2016/09...inds-dead-voters-casting-ballots-in-colorado/

Follow up story: https://denver.cbslocal.com/2016/10...eals-another-dead-voter-fraud-cases-and-gaps/

So we are talking about possible votes of 78-ish people .0039% of the people who voted. The actual number of people who bothered to vote using their dead relative's mail-in ballot is presumably less than that. If you feel that this number is significant enough that "steps must be taken," than certainly the disenfranchised voters who number in the hundreds and thousands, we must also take steps so they aren't disenfranchised, right?

Requiring ID at the poll will not fix this issue as much as finding a better way to compare the voter rolls to the list of people who have passed.

And for kicks, here's a link to another case of voter fraud in Colorado. ID at the polls wouldn't have helped here either, as it was a mail in ballot https://www.thedenverchannel.com/ne...airman-steven-curtis-charged-with-voter-fraud

 

[NotUrsula]

You should need an ID to vote in an election. You need an ID to order a drink, to buy cigarettes, to open a bank account, to apply for food stamps, apply for welfare, apply for social security, apply for unemployment, apply for a job, rent or buy a house, apply for a mortgage, drive/buy/rent a car, get on an airplane, get married, rent a hotel room, visit a casino, to buy certain flu medicine at the pharmacy, but you don't need one to vote? It makes no sense.

You can go to CVS and buy Nyquil and get carded. On the way home, you stop to vote for the future of your country and aren't asked for any identification. Weird right.

My uncle lived in the same house as his mom. She died right before the last presidential election. The night of voting my uncle went to vote and it said my dead grandmother had voted. Someone signed her name and everything. My boss's wife went to go vote once and it said that she had already voted. There is corruption. It exists.

In addition to what you've listed, many places require an ID when you use your bank card, buy certain video games, movies, or CDs, get age-based discounts (like a senior discount), apply for a hunting or fishing license, cash a check, go inside some federal buildings (DOJ for instance), to pick up your child at most schools/daycares, to determine residency for certain community events/hazardous waste disposal days/receive community assistance during the holidays or with food, clothing, etc, and many places ask for identification just to return a purchase.

Identification is a part of life. Most states offer free or reduced fees for those with low incomes, disabilities, or other mitigating circumstances to obtain state IDs. Some state or community agencies also have resources to aid with transportation for those who need it to obtain these services.

Relaxed voter ID requirements has allowed for people who aren't eligible to vote to do so, and has prevented some people from being able to vote because another person had already done so in their name and there's no way to prove that it wasn't them trying to vote a second time.

With all of the things that you need identification for in society and the resources available to aid those who need assistance obtaining it, it doesn't make sense that ID would not be required to cast a vote.

I know I'm beating my head against a wall here, but I'm still going to try, because Thanksgiving is coming up, and if ever there were something to give thanks for, it's that I'm in a position to do all of the above things without thinking twice. Why? Because I have an education, and a job, and money to be able to afford reliable transportation and pretty much any necessity that comes up. Do I have only my own initiative to thank for that? Yeah, pretty much, but I don't happen to think that makes me all that wonderful. I grew up pretty darned poor, but in an unusually self-educated and aware family for our circumstances. But for the Grace of God ...

Going down the list:
Order a drink? Not in years. I'm not all that pretty anymore, and the years show all too well. Besides, drinking in bars is pricey; cheaper to drink at home.
Buy cigarettes? I don't smoke and never have, but I do go to gas stations, and the vast majority of folks who I see purchase tobacco don't get carded -- only the youngsters.
Open a bank account? According to the Federal Reserve, the current percentage of adult unbanked Americans is 5%, but 5% of a darn big country is 13 million adults.
Apply for food stamps or welfare? Yes, you need SOME id, but not photo ID. Most jurisdictions will allow you to present several forms of non-photo id to make a case for who you are.
Apply for a job, unemployment or Social Security? If you work under the table cash only, you won't need an ID, and if that is your employment situation, you won't ever be eligible for unemployment or SS benefits.
Rent or buy a house? Hand $300 in cash over to Aunt Debby's brother to live in his basement this month. If you move every 3 months you are not going to be signing a lease.
Drive a car? If you can reach the pedals you can drive. There are a huge number of people who drive w/o a license because they can't afford to buy insurance. Paying for the ticket is cheaper.
Buy a car? Craigslist doesn't require an ID. In most states you can sign over the title yourself. Lots of families swap license plates around from car to car depending on which one happens to be running.
Rent a car? You don't travel, and you bum rides to get around without wheels, or take the bus.
Get on an airplane? You don't travel by air. (FYI: You don't actually need ID to fly domestically. Takes extra time and a thorough search, but easily do-able.)
Get married? Most don't bother.
Rent a hotel room? SEE you don't travel (Except maybe to visit relatives, and then you sleep on the couch.)
Visit a casino? That's fancy gambling. The gas station has video poker. (Only a very small minority of Americans actually frequent casinos. Most of us have never been in one.)
Buy flu medicine at the pharmacy? Too sick to go to the pharmacy. My neighbor picked it up for me.
Use your bank card? What bank card?
Buy R-rated movies, games or CD's? Only if you're a kid. I've never been carded for any of those things.
Age-based discounts? My wrinkles are my ID. I get those discounts all the time without asking, though I'm actually a few years too young.
Apply for a hunting or fishing license? You ignore the rules that say you need a license, or you fish where none is needed.
Cash a check? You don't do checks; cash only.
Go inside certain federal buildings? You just don't go there, unless you are being escorted by a cop.
Pick up your child from daycare? Grandma knows me by sight.
Pick up your child from school? She rides the bus.
Determine residency for programs? You don't apply for those programs, or you get an exception signed by a social worker who knows you directly.
Return a purchase? If the receipt doesn't work, it doesn't get returned.
Doctor's office or hospital? Only required by insurance, which DOES have a big fraud problem.
Cell phone? No-contract phones don't require any ID; you buy a cash card each month to top up the balance if you don't have a credit card.

Just for the record, needing ID for interacting with government here is a relatively new thing in the post-computer world. Needing a photo ID to vote is tightening requirements, not relaxing them, because once upon a time (within my lifetime!) Americans were NOT asked for photo ID every time they turned around. There is a reason why "Papers, please!" was a meme used over and over again in movies about nations with authoritarian governments.

I'm sorry that you know someone whose vote was stolen, but truly, that happening with malice aforethought is unusual, and when it does happen is primarily a one-off by a partisan acquaintance who knows that you won't be voting. Most of the time that happens by accident when the person who voted earlier has the same name and the monitor doesn't verify the address. I have a very unusual name, but the polling monitors at my polling place are all elderly and most don't see all that well. MANY times they have directed me to sign the register next to a name that isn't mine.

Free or reduced-fee ID programs are great things, but when they don't advertise, or they require you to round up several other documents to qualify to get it, they are still not all that effective.

PS: I agree with Gumbo that if you really care about the voice of the poor, you should do something to help them get connected. Among other things, I volunteer for registration drives with LOWV (which is non-partisan. YEA!)

 

[LSUmiss]

I'm of the mindset that, even if one doesn't initially realize something has a negative effect, continuing to defend it once one does learn makes one part of the problem.

I used to think that requiring ID to vote made sense. However, once I learned that it has a huge negative impact on minority communities and is virtually pointless, I changed my mind.

Even the most, shall we say, concerned, websites only point to a little over 1000 instances of voter fraud...over the last 18 years!! It's unconscionable to argue for these ID measures that severely restrict certain groups' right to vote for such a minuscule problem. People who advocate getting ID laws in place need to work on fixing the problem of ease of access to getting an ID first if it's so important to them.

As far as problems with our elections, one of the other major concerns is voter access to polling places. Problems like counties shutting down many polling sites in high-minority areas, or only providing 10% of promised voting booths to high-traffic high-minority locations needs to be corrected.

This is a great post. This was exactly how I felt at first. But, then I was informed & I understood. Ideally, presenting IDs would be great in a perfect world. But, that’s not the world we live in & we know that it adversely affects some groups & not others AND that it was designed to intentionally continue to disenfranchise these groups. So to me, when ppl ignore this evidence or dismiss it as myth, they either lack empathy and/or support the malicious intent of the “law”.

 

[LSUmiss]

I think everyone recognizes the potential downside, whether they’re willing to admit it or not. We all also recognize the not so nice motivation behind requiring an ID and the equally not so nice reasons for fighting so hard to avoid this requirement - again, whether anyone wants to admit either of these or not.

It’s your opinion there’s no real upside, and you’re certainly entitled to that opinion. I disagree. Maybe one of us is right & the other wrong. Maybe we’re both a little right AND a little wrong.

I do believe failing to possess proper identification creates all sorts of headaches, many of which lead directly to the very reasons it’s supposedly a hardship to obtain an ID. And I believe if the goal is to actually HELP these people, we should put some effort into getting them the tools necessary to lawfully function as an adult in our country, including proper identification. And that should be a priority for all, NOT just those who believe requiring an ID to vote is a good idea.

I do agree the same polling places time after time are understaffed, too crowded, and otherwise needlessly inconvenient which obviously can deter voters. And it should be a priority to fix these situations.

I 100% agree that we should put an effort into resources that help everyone function as an adult including having an ID. However, until those resources are adequate, I don’t think we should require an ID to vote. AND the current trend is to slash the budgets that support these resources so it’s not looking good any time soon.

 

[LongLiveRafiki]

I'm short on time, but there have been numerous posts on this thread that answer your question.

From what I recall, there was mentioned the Native Americans in ND and it had to do with them not having a valid address. It makes sense that you would need to have an address to show that you are eligible to vote in a particular district. There were options available that included having an address assigned to them by 911 dispatchers, having Tribal leaders assist with letters to prove residency of those living on reservations, and free IDs given to Native Americans.

It was also brought up that many people may not need an ID if they are working under the table and driving without a license. Both of those things are illegal and that argument does nothing to show why they are unable to obtain identification.

Then there were the college students. Most, if not all, colleges require some sort of identification, and many colleges also give students photo ID from the college. In regards to college IDs not being accepted in NC, I haven't read up on the reasons why or what their ID reqs are, but it may have to do with an address not being on it-- which could lead to issues with where you're allowed to be registered to vote/avoiding the potential for registering in the district of home of record +district the college is in. Still though, the vast majority of college students are going to have already had an ID simply because of it generally being necessary to certify enrollment.

Other than that, if I have missed any specific examples of people who do not have ID and are unable to obtain one, please let me know. It had been referenced that some low-income people may not have ID or the means to get one, but it hasn't really been discussed why they are unable to get one. Why can't they use the resources available in regards to transportation, funding, etc?

 

[LSUmiss]

From what I recall, there was mentioned the Native Americans in ND and it had to do with them not having a valid address. It makes sense that you would need to have an address to show that you are eligible to vote in a particular district. There were options available that included having an address assigned to them by 911 dispatchers, having Tribal leaders assist with letters to prove residency of those living on reservations, and free IDs given to Native Americans.

It was also brought up that many people may not need an ID if they are working under the table and driving without a license. Both of those things are illegal and that argument does nothing to show why they are unable to obtain identification.

Then there were the college students. Most, if not all, colleges require some sort of identification, and many colleges also give students photo ID from the college. In regards to college IDs not being accepted in NC, I haven't read up on the reasons why or what their ID reqs are, but it may have to do with an address not being on it-- which could lead to issues with where you're allowed to be registered to vote/avoiding the potential for registering in the district of home of record +district the college is in. Still though, the vast majority of college students are going to have already had an ID simply because of it generally being necessary to certify enrollment.

Other than that, if I have missed any specific examples of people who do not have ID and are unable to obtain one, please let me know. It had been referenced that some low-income people may not have ID or the means to get one, but it hasn't really been discussed why they are unable to get one. Why can't they use the resources available in regards to transportation, funding, etc?

Not some low-income, MANY...and what specific resources are available in transportation, funding, etc? I’d be interested to hear about them. Maybe I can refer some ppl to them.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Some of these posts, and justifications....
Wow... I don't know whether to laugh or just .

Even the whole premise that a thread that was created, very specifically, to be about timing and instant returns, has to become all about an agenda (partisan agenda) regarding basic voter ID... But, hey... whatever.

 

[LongLiveRafiki]

Requiring ID at the poll will not fix this issue as much as finding a better way to compare the voter rolls to the list of people who have passed.

Why can't we do both? Voter fraud can happen in numerous ways. Requiring ID doesn't solve all of it and neither does comparing registered voters to lists of deceased. Every bit helps though.

 

[Colleen27]

I too refuse to believe that the majority of Americans do not have an ID.

Rights aren't just for "the majority", though.

Talk about exaggerating what I said to the millionth degree. Voter ID should be required IMO and if a county/city is doing questionable things and not following the law, yes then someone should be able to step in to question and observe what is going on. What would they have to hide if they are following the law? Honest people don't try to hide. What is going on in Florida is a disgrace and makes all American's question our election system. It's an eye opener though, which is good to get the system to work honestly/correctly.

Who is policing our electoral system? I do not have confidence that there are checks and balances in the current system. Yes, I do believe there are major problems with the system many states have now. Look at Florida now and Georgia. Most of the people I know share my concern with the current state of our electoral system.

I think the fact that you're zeroing in on those situations, which are on their face attempts to get an accurate vote count, while ignoring the way calls for voter ID and other measure to protect the "integrity" of the process have been used (including in this election cycle in one of the states you're talking about) to suppress specific populations' voting rights speaks volumes about where your concerns come from.

They allow for things like a utility bill or Medicaid card to be provided as ID... Which is likely why there were deceased people voting. That highlights that voter fraud does happen and there needs to be ways to ensure that only those ALIVE and eligible to vote can do so or there will be fraud.

Deceased people voting has more to do with 1) delays in cross checking voter rolls with death indexes and 2) automatic absentee ballot mailings than anything else. Requiring ID does NOTHING to solve either of those problems. My grandmother could have voted in several elections after her death, because she died in a presidential election year and received absentee ballots for the primary and general by mail before the records got updated. That is actually the most common type of voter fraud in this country - someone filling out and returning those automatically-mailed ballots in a deceased loved one's name - but that isn't the fraud anyone worries about.

Free or reduced-fee ID programs are great things, but when they don't advertise, or they require you to round up several other documents to qualify to get it, they are still not all that effective.

And the fees aren't the only stumbling block. Reduced-fee programs or charitable funding can overcome the costs in many cases, and some even help with the document round-up, but there's still the issue of not having a verifiable address or a place to have that photo ID sent. That's harder to overcome, and only getting moreso as more states crack down on what is and isn't an acceptable address for residency/ID purposes.

 

[NotUrsula]

It was also brought up that many people may not need an ID if they are working under the table and driving without a license. Both of those things are illegal and that argument does nothing to show why they are unable to obtain identification.

FTR, it wasn't meant to show why they are unable to obtain ID. It was in response to a question about how people can manage in their daily lives without one.

*No one* here said that the majority of Americans don't have government-issued photo id, not at all. Most estimates put the number well below 5% of our adult population. The thing is, this is a big country, and 2% of the adult population, at last count, is over 4.6 MILLION people. That's an awful lot of Americans to deliberately disenfranchise over a photo ID.

Also, we are not saying that the disenfranchised are unable to obtain ID, just that the process is difficult enough in their circumstances that it constitutes a hardship.

PS: About that contention that Hillsborough County, FL election officials are not allowing observers into the room where the re-count is being done? Technically true, but not exactly refusing to let them observe. The Tampa Bay Times (TBO.com) ran a photo of the situation (I normally would shrink this, but I think this one deserves a close-up):

 

[LongLiveRafiki]

I know I'm beating my head against a wall here, but I'm still going to try, because Thanksgiving is coming up, and if ever there were something to give thanks for, it's that I'm in a position to do all of the above things without thinking twice. Why? Because I have an education, and a job, and money to be able to afford reliable transportation and pretty much any necessity that comes up. Do I have only my own initiative to thank for that? Yeah, pretty much, but I don't happen to think that makes me all that wonderful. I grew up pretty darned poor, but in an unusually self-educated and aware family for our circumstances. But for the Grace of God ...

Going down the list:
Order a drink? Not in years. I'm not all that pretty anymore, and the years show all too well. Besides, drinking in bars is pricey; cheaper to drink at home.
Buy cigarettes? I don't smoke and never have, but I do go to gas stations, and the vast majority of folks who I see purchase tobacco don't get carded -- only the youngsters.
Open a bank account? According to the Federal Reserve, the current percentage of adult unbanked Americans is 5%, but 5% of a darn big country is 13 million adults.
Apply for food stamps or welfare? Yes, you need SOME id, but not photo ID. Most jurisdictions will allow you to present several forms of non-photo id to make a case for who you are.
Apply for a job, unemployment or Social Security? If you work under the table cash only, you won't need an ID, and if that is your employment situation, you won't ever be eligible for unemployment or SS benefits.
Rent or buy a house? Hand $300 in cash over to Aunt Debby's brother to live in his basement this month. If you move every 3 months you are not going to be signing a lease.
Drive a car? If you can reach the pedals you can drive. There are a huge number of people who drive w/o a license because they can't afford to buy insurance. Paying for the ticket is cheaper.
Buy a car? Craigslist doesn't require an ID. In most states you can sign over the title yourself. Lots of families swap license plates around from car to car depending on which one happens to be running.
Rent a car? You don't travel, and you bum rides to get around without wheels, or take the bus.
Get on an airplane? You don't travel by air. (FYI: You don't actually need ID to fly domestically. Takes extra time and a thorough search, but easily do-able.)
Get married? Most don't bother.
Rent a hotel room? SEE you don't travel (Except maybe to visit relatives, and then you sleep on the couch.)
Visit a casino? That's fancy gambling. The gas station has video poker. (Only a very small minority of Americans actually frequent casinos. Most of us have never been in one.)
Buy flu medicine at the pharmacy? Too sick to go to the pharmacy. My neighbor picked it up for me.
Use your bank card? What bank card?
Buy R-rated movies, games or CD's? Only if you're a kid. I've never been carded for any of those things.
Age-based discounts? My wrinkles are my ID. I get those discounts all the time without asking, though I'm actually a few years too young.
Apply for a hunting or fishing license? You ignore the rules that say you need a license, or you fish where none is needed.
Cash a check? You don't do checks; cash only.
Go inside certain federal buildings? You just don't go there, unless you are being escorted by a cop.
Pick up your child from daycare? Grandma knows me by sight.
Pick up your child from school? She rides the bus.
Determine residency for programs? You don't apply for those programs, or you get an exception signed by a social worker who knows you directly.
Return a purchase? If the receipt doesn't work, it doesn't get returned.
Doctor's office or hospital? Only required by insurance, which DOES have a big fraud problem.
Cell phone? No-contract phones don't require any ID; you buy a cash card each month to top up the balance if you don't have a credit card.

Just for the record, needing ID for interacting with government here is a relatively new thing in the post-computer world. Needing a photo ID to vote is tightening requirements, not relaxing them, because once upon a time (within my lifetime!) Americans were NOT asked for photo ID every time they turned around. There is a reason why "Papers, please!" was a meme used over and over again in movies about nations with authoritarian governments.

I'm sorry that you know someone whose vote was stolen, but truly, that happening with malice aforethought is unusual, and when it does happen is primarily a one-off by a partisan acquaintance who knows that you won't be voting. Most of the time that happens by accident when the person who voted earlier has the same name and the monitor doesn't verify the address. I have a very unusual name, but the polling monitors at my polling place are all elderly and most don't see all that well. MANY times they have directed me to sign the register next to a name that isn't mine.

Free or reduced-fee ID programs are great things, but when they don't advertise, or they require you to round up several other documents to qualify to get it, they are still not all that effective.

PS: I agree with Gumbo that if you really care about the voice of the poor, you should do something to help them get connected. Among other things, I volunteer for registration drives with LOWV (which is non-partisan. YEA!)

Those are all very understandable reasons for why a person may not use each individual service that requires an ID, but the idea that a large number of eligible voters in society do not do any of these things seems far-fetched. It also does not really address what is preventing anyone from obtaining an ID, which is the crux of the issue.

Not some low-income, MANY...and what specific resources are available in transportation, funding, etc? I’d be interested to hear about them. Maybe I can refer some ppl to them.

As I have stated, most states offer reduced or free state IDs to those who are low-income or have other circumstances that prevent them from paying. Welfare offices, WIC, community resource centers, social workers, etc will work with people who are in need to get them waivers and provide transportation. Every state is different and it would take far too long to research and go into what each state offers. If someone is having difficulty they should reach out and see what opportunities and assistance is available to them.

 

[LSUmiss]

Those are all very understandable reasons for why a person may not use each individual service that requires an ID, but the idea that a large number of eligible voters in society do not do any of these things seems far-fetched. It also does not really address what is preventing anyone from obtaining an ID, which is the crux of the issue.




As I have stated, most states offer reduced or free state IDs to those who are low-income or have other circumstances that prevent them from paying. Welfare offices, WIC, community resource centers, social workers, etc will work with people who are in need to get them waivers and provide transportation. Every state is different and it would take far too long to research and go into what each state offers. If someone is having difficulty they should reach out and see what opportunities and assistance is available to them.

I am a social worker & in this state those resources are severely lacking & most are non existent. Was hoping you had some actual suggestions. I think that’s part of the problem is that ppl are able to justify their lack of empathy b/c they think things exist that just do not.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

Rent or buy a house? Hand $300 in cash over to Aunt Debby's brother to live in his basement this month. If you move every 3 months you are not going to be signing a lease.
Drive a car? If you can reach the pedals you can drive. There are a huge number of people who drive w/o a license because they can't afford to buy insurance. Paying for the ticket is cheaper.

Don't forget the people who are homeless and without a vehicle.

 

[NotUrsula]

I am a social worker & in this state those resources are severely lacking & most are non existent. Was hoping you had some actual suggestions. I think that’s part of the problem is that ppl are able to justify their lack of empathy b/c they think things exist that just do not.

Add to that the irony that folks in the wealthiest states tend to be the ones that most often think like this, because their state (or more likely, their county) provides such things, so they assume that they are available everywhere. They are available in that wealthy state or wealthy county because people there are mostly lucky enough to have above-average incomes and not need such services, which means that their taxes manage to cover their neighbors who do need them. In many, many ways you are better off being poor in New Jersey or Massachusetts than you are being lower middle-class in rural Louisiana or rural Arizona (I grew up in St. Landry Parish, which is obscenely poor as a whole. Actually listed as the poorest MSA in America a couple of times.)

My area does have transportation available for disabled adults who need to conduct business for themselves. It's a very widely-used program and I'm pleased that my taxes support it. They will take you to the following places: Any medical facility, one local supermarket, or Walmart. No where else. They are not allowed to take people to the Library because the Library will have books delivered, nor can they take people to the Social Security office, the DMV or the Post Office, all of which are places where by rights they should be able to go, but there just isn't enough money for that many destinations.

I think that ID services, in particular, should be provided in mobile form to those who need it. Drive into a neighborhood and park, and let people walk or roll out of their houses and up the the van to get a non-driver state ID, right there, on the spot. With the technology that exists in this day and age, it should be possible if the state really wants to do it. (And it should be possible to get the funds if people who insist that ID is necessary really mean that and put their money where their mouths are.)

 

[LongLiveRafiki]

I am a social worker & in this state those resources are severely lacking & most are non existent. Was hoping you had some actual suggestions. I think that’s part of the problem is that ppl are able to justify their lack of empathy b/c they think things exist that just do not.

Here in MI, you can get a fee waiver for an ID if you are 65 or older, have a disability that prevents you from obtaining a license, if you receive several types of govt assistance, or if you present other good cause. If you are homeless and staying in a shelter, you can get a letter from the shelter stating you are staying there that will suffice as residency proof for obtaining an ID. If you are staying with family but cannot prove residency with a utility bill, that family member can prove their residency and attest that you are living there and you can then claim residence for ID purposes. Some non-profits are also working with the communities to provide an address for homeless people living on the streets.

Crossroads of MI offers assistance in gathering paperwork to obtain identification and bus vouchers so people can get to the SOS. Legal Aid offices will also assist people in tracking down and obtaining necessary info for SS cards, birth certificates, IDs, etc. The DAV and any VA hospital have social workers who will assist vets in proving residency and obtaining identification. Many libraries and non-profits offer free computer use and some types of ID can be applied for online without requiring you to go in person. Michigan 2-1-1 helps ex-offenders obtain required documents and identification. Detroit has begun issuing municipal ID cards that are available even to the homeless without any hurdles to jump through.

These are just a few of the many resources available in my state. There are loads more available. DHS will help refer people to whatever places can help them.

I do not lack empathy. Life isn't easy. I fully understand that, but there are far more services available than people acknowledge.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I think it is a fair assumption that EVERY American citizen, with any basis at all, has a right to get an ID.
That sounds like equal rights to me.
I see absolutely no infringment of rights at all.
No question.

My mother's records all burned when the courthouse burned down, centuries ago.
Never caused her any issues...
She had a driver's license, filed for Social Security, etc..

To suggest that any person should be able to just walk up and vote, no questions asked is just frightening.

I would still question the very rationality, as well as the motive, of anyone who has that viewpoint.

 

[Ben E N]

To suggest that any person should be able to just walk up and vote, no questions asked is just frightening.

What makes it frightening? As long as it is one vote per person over 18, what is scary about them being able to walk up and vote?

 

[kandb]

And it’s about the greater good too. It’s far more likely that legit ppl will be prohibited from voting than a handful of ppl who may fraudulently vote in someone else’s name b/c ID is not required.

A "handful of people" will vote fraudulently??? Wow, you have way too much trust in people. I watch the news and see how many unethical/lying/law-breaking people are out there. Please show me some statistics that there is just a few people, here and there that vote illegally??? Can you give us any research or studies to back this?

 

[kandb]

What makes it frightening? As long as it is one vote per person over 18, what is scary about them being able to walk up and vote?

Who is guaranteeing that a person is only voting once? I moved from one state to another but my husband still voted in the state we moved from (he was still in the previous state) and when he went to vote, I was still on the previous state's books to be able to vote. They never took me off. Of course, we both voted only once but I could of easily voted twice and no one would of done nothing about it. That's reality.