Disneyland Paris goes full Universal

[DisFanDad]

Also, something to bear in mind is that the Universal Express experience is not identical to FP+. Go to Universal on a very busy day and even with Express you can easily wait 40 minutes for Despicable Me and Gringotts. When I questioned our wait once at Despicable Me I was told that Express only guarantees a 50% saving compared to the standby line. This would of course be a massive downgrade to the current FP experience at rides like FoP and SDD.

And this is my point, this is what will happen at WDW if they bring this in. In the end it wont really improve anyone's day over what's currently there, it will just make things more expensive for some, and even longer waits for others.

 

[ChipnDale79]

And this is my point, this is what will happen at WDW if they bring this in. In the end it wont really improve anyone's day over what's currently there, it will just make things more expensive for some, and even longer waits for others.

Does anyone know if there is any data out there to show wait times pre and post fp+?

it seems to me, that the lines are longer post fp+, and that more fast passes would make the lines longer.

 

[Farro]

Sure you say that now, until you try to go on your trip and all the "skip the line" passes are sold out, for the day / days. Or worse, they don't limit them, so that in order to even ride more than a ride or two a day you HAVE to purchase the thing, which means its just another 100 a day, per person, to go to WDW.

I can promise you, I won't get worked up about it.

If I want the pass, I will try and get it the day it becomes available. If I don't get it, I won't sweat it.
If a ride is that important to us, we'll use a regular fast pass, maybe rope drop, maybe purchase EMM if they have it, maybe try multiple times in one trip (we go for a nice long stay). If we don't get on it, we'll try again in another 3-4 years.

I can't put that much thought into the what if's since it's not even offered here yet!

 

[Future_WorldPhonencian]

Woah... definitely dont want a big economic downturn, but was just pointing out earlier that Disney is zeroing in on a very specific segment of the market and things like this continue to push the price of a disney vacation out of reach for the average middle class american in many places of the country. I might be comfortable with a market correction in the theme park and entertainment industry as prices have started to get out of control.

 

[GoingSince1990]

Nobody wants an economic downturn. When economic downturns do happen, however, Disney offering lower prices for things like theme park admission and good deals on hotels falls into the category of "every cloud has a silver lining".

 

[snappy]

Well even the original three stand to be devalued by this. Right now FP allocation is based on time slots. In that way Disney can make a best effort attempt to reduce actual FP wait times to just a few minutes. That doesn't work so well if the number of people standing in the FP line is vastly higher than the time-slot allows, and since anyone who has paid a hundred bucks for an all-you-can-eat FP is incentivized to find out just how much they *can* eat, this can easily set up a vicious cycle where not having the FP extra is just waste of a park ticket. Then what? When everyone has Park Ticket + Ultimate Fast Pass, and lines are still long, do we see another up-charge to 'concierge level' which is just like 'Ultimate Fast Pass' except, you know, 'fast'.

If the goal is simply to keep pricing people out of the parks, or to follow an air-travel style bait-and-switch on base pricing, this is a good way to go. Otherwise, no. It just turns the parks into a playground for an increasingly smaller portion of the market, and if the goal is to have the parks operate as a force-multiplier for IP and merchandizing (which in the pre-Iger years, it seems like it was), it's stupidly short-sighted.

Still in awe of the “all you an eat FP” phrase above. It hits the spot.

 

[ClapYourHands]

Although I do dislike to see people practically salivating over a possible economic recession just to see Disney have to lower prices...

I don't think it's so much that people are rooting for a recession so much as pointing out the other kind of "Disney bubble." Disney is raising prices everywhere as if there will always be more, more, more money coming in, and apparently spending it even faster. They're building more rides, more hotels, more lands in the parks, merging with Fox, etc. It's a huge expense, and one they're apparently planning to finance through continually rising prices.

The problem is that if people stop forking over those ridiculous prices, Disney is going to be in a world of hurt. Just this fall, they laid off Captain Jack and some of the Citizens of Hollywood, citing budget shortfalls. If they're laying off such popular and visible CMs, it makes me wonder how many behind-the-scenes CMs have lost their jobs or seen their hours reduced.

Expansion isn't a bad thing in itself, but Disney appears to be overextending itself, and acting as if we will always be in a bull market. I certainly don't want a recession, but I would also really like to see Disney grow in a more sustainable way.

 

[snappy]

I don't think it's so much that people are rooting for a recession so much as pointing out the other kind of "Disney bubble." Disney is raising prices everywhere as if there will always be more, more, more money coming in, and apparently spending it even faster. They're building more rides, more hotels, more lands in the parks, merging with Fox, etc. It's a huge expense, and one they're apparently planning to finance through continually rising prices.

The problem is that if people stop forking over those ridiculous prices, Disney is going to be in a world of hurt. Just this fall, they laid off Captain Jack and some of the Citizens of Hollywood, citing budget shortfalls. If they're laying off such popular and visible CMs, it makes me wonder how many behind-the-scenes CMs have lost their jobs or seen their hours reduced.

Expansion isn't a bad thing in itself, but Disney appears to be overextending itself, and acting as if we will always be in a bull market. I certainly don't want a recession, but I would also really like to see Disney grow in a more sustainable way.

I agree. That’s an apt observation about Disney appearing to overextend itself, particularly on things that are high profile to wow the masses.

I suspect at the same time there are a lot of corners being cut by Disney behind the curtain.

 

[DisFanDad]

Does anyone know if there is any data out there to show wait times pre and post fp+?

it seems to me, that the lines are longer post fp+, and that more fast passes would make the lines longer.

Josh did this at easywdw, conclusively, it increased wait times.

 

[ChipnDale79]

Josh did this at easywdw, conclusively, it increased wait times.

that's the perception i have, but i could be wrong.

 

[snappy]

Seems like both stand by and fast pass lines are longer even in late January/early February but we don’t go early or stay late.

 

[whiporee]

When you're comparing wait times, though, you have to factor in the average rather than just the standby line. Pre FP+, the FP effect was rather negligible. But with FP+ and WDW's making sure people know about it, it's a real consideration. If the SB line for something is 40 min and the FP line takes 5, and 1/3 of the riders are using FP then the average time waiting for the ride is 28. Likewise, let's say you do 10 rides in a day, and you end up with four FPs. If you wait for the six SBs is an average of 50, and your wait for the FPs is 5, then your total waiting time for the day is 320 minutes, or about 32 a ride.

I'd really like to see data comparing average total wait times pre FP and post FP+. I don't know what it would show, but I think it would be a fairer comparison than just comparing SB times.

 

[The Pho]

When you're comparing wait times, though, you have to factor in the average rather than just the standby line. Pre FP+, the FP effect was rather negligible. But with FP+ and WDW's making sure people know about it, it's a real consideration. If the SB line for something is 40 min and the FP line takes 5, and 1/3 of the riders are using FP then the average time waiting for the ride is 28. Likewise, let's say you do 10 rides in a day, and you end up with four FPs. If you wait for the six SBs is an average of 50, and your wait for the FPs is 5, then your total waiting time for the day is 320 minutes, or about 32 a ride.

I'd really like to see data comparing average total wait times pre FP and post FP+. I don't know what it would show, but I think it would be a fairer comparison than just comparing SB times.

There are other factors as well, from park ride capacity to overall attendance growth to ride awareness. Hard to place blame squarely on Fastpass+. The Fastpass system now also serves as a way to promote less popular rides in addition to being a way to wait less for the popular ones.

 

[tlmadden73]

There are other factors as well, from park ride capacity to overall attendance growth to ride awareness. Hard to place blame squarely on Fastpass+. The Fastpass system now also serves as a way to promote less popular rides in addition to being a way to wait less for the popular ones.

Right .. ride capacity. Long standby lines for things like Pandora and SDD (and lack of FP availability) has less to do with the FP system and more to do with the lack of "rides" that people wait in the queue for at those parks compared to the Magic Kingdom. DHS only has 6 rides (defined as an attraction you wait in a line, and get in a vehicle - aka - not a show) in the entire park (though .. soon to be 9). Fantasyland alone has more than that.
Rides are what help disperse the crowds (shows do to .. to a point) as I am sure rides are infinitely more popular than shows.

I am just curious if we could ever know the actual FP stats.
For example. SDMT has X fast pass slots available EVERY timeslot.

 

[DisFanDad]

Right .. ride capacity. Long standby lines for things like Pandora and SDD (and lack of FP availability) has less to do with the FP system and more to do with the lack of "rides" that people wait in the queue for at those parks compared to the Magic Kingdom. DHS only has 6 rides (defined as an attraction you wait in a line, and get in a vehicle - aka - not a show) in the entire park (though .. soon to be 9). Fantasyland alone has more than that.
Rides are what help disperse the crowds (shows do to .. to a point) as I am sure rides are infinitely more popular than shows.

I am just curious if we could ever know the actual FP stats.
For example. SDMT has X fast pass slots available EVERY timeslot.

All the stuff you have mentioned plays a role, the key principle though is this:

It allows 1 person to be more than one person.

In the past, FPs were far more limited, and not as widely utilized.

Essentially what an FP does, is it allows you to be in two places at once, maybe 3 or 4 really. You are physically in a spot, but you are virtually in up to 3 others. So while I can be physically standing in line at Space ranger spin at 11am, I am also virtually standing in line at Space mountain with my 11-12FP I have booked there.

It makes 1 person, more than one person, and thus dramatically increases the demand on ride capacity. Esp when so much of that capacity is given to the virtual me's, trying to make sure we don't have to really wait at all.

 

[DisFanDad]

There are other factors as well, from park ride capacity to overall attendance growth to ride awareness. Hard to place blame squarely on Fastpass+. The Fastpass system now also serves as a way to promote less popular rides in addition to being a way to wait less for the popular ones.

FP+ made the impacts of those other things worse, but Josh did a very good job of isolating crowd levels pre and post FP+, FP+ had a major impact on wait times. Not a positive one.

 

[manning]

It's coming --GREED PASS +

Hmmm maybe you can squeeze blood from a turnip.

 

[DisneyinNJ]

I don't think it's so much that people are rooting for a recession so much as pointing out the other kind of "Disney bubble." Disney is raising prices everywhere as if there will always be more, more, more money coming in, and apparently spending it even faster. They're building more rides, more hotels, more lands in the parks, merging with Fox, etc. It's a huge expense, and one they're apparently planning to finance through continually rising prices.

The problem is that if people stop forking over those ridiculous prices, Disney is going to be in a world of hurt. Just this fall, they laid off Captain Jack and some of the Citizens of Hollywood, citing budget shortfalls. If they're laying off such popular and visible CMs, it makes me wonder how many behind-the-scenes CMs have lost their jobs or seen their hours reduced.

Expansion isn't a bad thing in itself, but Disney appears to be overextending itself, and acting as if we will always be in a bull market. I certainly don't want a recession, but I would also really like to see Disney grow in a more sustainable way.

One of the biggest issues is that the parks are already suffering from capacity constraints. As a shareholder, I’d rather see Disney limit attendance via a ticket pricing rather than spending billions in Capex to open another park. A 5th park drives up fixed expenses, and prices can always be lowered in a recession.

 

[YesterDark]

Hi, I'm Riff, this is my wife, Raft. These price increases are definitely got us thinking about visiting other places than WDW. We have 3 kids and love to visit the parks, every other year since 1997. Next summer, I think we'll skip WDW and go to the Northeast. Maybe DC and see if there's any good theme parks nearby. Make it an Educational + Fun vacation. In '97, that looked like Epcot and MK/Typhoon Lagoon.

1) If you're up that way, visit Hershey Park. Great place and decent prices. The wife and I are bring our 3 kids and my mother for a few days after Thanksgiving.
2) In case it actually matters (it doesn't) DC is actually mid-Atlantic.

 

[GoingSince1990]

Hi, I'm Riff, this is my wife, Raft. These price increases are definitely got us thinking about visiting other places than WDW. We have 3 kids and love to visit the parks, every other year since 1997. Next summer, I think we'll skip WDW and go to the Northeast. Maybe DC and see if there's any good theme parks nearby. Make it an Educational + Fun vacation. In '97, that looked like Epcot and MK/Typhoon Lagoon.

For Educational + Fun, Colonial Williamsburg + Busch Gardens is a great trip. I recommend the Kingsmill resort which is minutes away from
both Busch Gardens and the Colonial village.