Denied DAS at Disneyland

[dison77]

Hi folks,

I want to share a terrible experience I had recently at Disneyland by way of posting part of the letter I'm sending to Disney Guest Relations. If I get a response, I'll be sure to update this thread. Comments not in my letter are in square brackets [].

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Dear Disney Guest Services:

I am writing to express my great sadness and dissatisfaction with the way my family and I were treated during our visit to Disneyland and California Adventure on Christmas 2014. A month earlier, I had proposed to my then-girlfriend, a lifelong Disney fanatic, at EPCOT in Orlando. It went without a hitch, so we decided to take my parents to Disneyland to celebrate. We were a little concerned because my mother, her husband, and I are all disabled, but while at WDW I had been able to get a Disability Access Service card which enabled our visit to go smoothly, and I had been told that I simply needed to bring the card to Guest Services at Disneyland to have it reissued for that park.

We arrived around noon at the main Guest Services location in California Adventure. We would have come earlier, but one of my disabilities made it impossible for me to arrive in the morning. My other disability is a bad back that prevents me from standing or sitting still for extended periods, so after waiting in line for 45 minutes I was already in pain and taking breaks to sit on a nearby ledge while my family held my place. When we entered the building, we were pulled aside by a Cast Member who asked what we needed.

I showed my DAS card to the Cast Member and explained that because of my back, I needed accommodation so that I could freely move around the park while waiting for my chance to board the rides. At this point, I was informed that Disney had changed its policy since I had visited WDW just a month earlier and would no longer provide accommodation. And that, moreover, accommodations would not be necessary as Disneyland was “fully ADA compliant”. I explained that my problem was not limited mobility, but rather a need to stay moving rather than stand in line. The Cast Member again repeated that Disney would not provide any accommodations for me and explained that I could use the FastPass system or wait on a bench while my family remained in line. I told her that I had not paid $600 to bring my family to Disneyland so that I could sit apart from them all day while they waited on line and reminded her that all the FastPasses had likely already been issued for the day for the popular rides. And even if I had been willing to sit on a bench for the day, there would be no viable way for me to know when they’d reached the front of the queue to rejoin them as the park was packed with guests.

The cast member then asked if I had brought a wheelchair, cane, or walker. I said that I had not as I do not require one, and she began to lecture me about “personal responsibility”--telling me that if I had difficulty standing I should get a wheelchair [as a side note to anyone who agrees with this, sitting in a wheelchair would certainly have made my situation worse--my back does not respond well to that sort of thing]. I was aghast and my fiancée broke down in tears at how offensively we were being treated. Unfortunately, I was too dumbstruck to take down the name of the CM with whom we were speaking. When I asked for a supervisor, I was introduced to someone named [redacted]. He reiterated the same policy, stating that Disney had no accommodations that they could make for my back problems, and he asked if I had any other disabilities that would cause me difficulty at the parks. I explained that my family and I have a number of different disabilities and asked what kinds of accommodations he was allowed to make if Disney was no longer offering their Disability Access Service. [redacted] replied that he “could not answer hypothetical questions.” I was not asking a hypothetical question, though--I was asking an entirely concrete question about available services for guests with disabilities. I was not comfortable listing all of my family’s medical conditions to the CM and I was extremely frustrated with his refusal to answer any of my questions other than to tell me he could not help me, so I asked to speak to his supervisor. He told me that he would have the Guest Relations Manager brought over from the other park; and I went to wait outside where I could sit down.

While waiting, I found a page on the Disney website explaining how the DAS system works and stating that “Disney Parks’ goal is to accommodate guests who aren’t able to wait in a conventional queue environment due to a disability (including non-apparent disabilities).“ ([Link removed since I don't meet the minimum post count, but you can easily find it by looking for the "Disney Parks Disability Access Service Card Fact Sheet" on the disney blogs site])
That described my situation perfectly. After another fifteen minutes or so, a woman named [redacted] came over to us, and I explained the situation again and showed her the website. She told us that the webpage did not apply to the Disneyland Parks because they were ADA compliant. She agreed only to give us a couple FastPasses to make up for the hour and a half we’d spent at Guest Services.

At this point, we gave up and located my mother and her husband. She had had an experience that was both depressingly similar and disturbingly different. When she had explained her own disabilities to the CMs, they had told her the same thing they told me--that there was nothing they could do. But when she told them that her husband had autism, they were suddenly more than willing to provide exactly the accommodations we had been requesting. It was only because of this that we were able to enjoy the parks, and that was only after we’d spent another hour calming down from our miserable treatment.

From the sound of it, it appears that some disabilities are given preferential treatment by Disney Parks. This discriminatory treatment is reprehensible and disappointing. Being made to feel ashamed and guilty for requesting assistance is not what we expected from a company built on exceptional customer service. My fiancée and I had hoped to celebrate many anniversaries together at Disney parks, and we are very disappointed to think that that may no longer be possible given my needs.

 

[sonnyjane]

I'm curious as to what you expected from DAS that isn't provided by Fastpass, which allows you to wander around the park as you like until your designated return time?

 

[dison77]

Hi Sonny,

There are a couple reasons FastPass doesn't fully serve my needs. FastPasses are issued based on availability (a set number are given out for each time slot throughout the day) not based on current wait times, so they're not entirely fair to me--others can ride after waiting the current queue time, but I might not be able to ride for many hours. And, in fact, due to my inability to arrive early, fastpasses for many rides were already all dispensed--I got one for Cars, and it was for 10:40pm. Since you can only have one active pass at a time, if I wanted to ride Cars that day, I would have been unable to ride anything else (and had I changed to a different fast pass, I wouldn't have been able to ride Cars).

 

[TheRustyScupper]

1) I think the DAS was applied properly in your case.
2) ADA and DAS allow access, not excess.
3) There is no reason continue the abuses of the old GAC.
. . . instant admittance to a ride when others have to wait in line
. . . multiple repeated/continuous rides on the same attraction
. . . more frequent rides than other guests
4) The DAS does allow you to wait elsewhere and not wait in line.
. . . you are given a return time
. . . in most cases, you only wait 10-15 minutes in line
. . . you can wait or roam as you need
5) Disney is giving you accommodation, but not advantage over other guests.

 

[anonymousegirl]

Dison77, you are incorrect when you say you can only have one active FP at a time. You may obtain another FP once your window opens, or 2 hours have passed, so you could have easily held more than one FP.

 

[married2mm]

Forgive me,if I misunderstand.

However, I was under the impression you did not need to inform cms of your disability-whether visible or invisible.

I thought in order to apply for das-you had to state your issues relating to be in a park-and then how a das would assist.

Eg-anxiety from being in long lines; but don't need to state full title of diagnosed disorder-just an overview of symptoms?!



Op-I'm sorry you were so upset and feel disney have mistreated you and your family. I hope you arrive at some form of resolution.

 

[2tinkerbell]

You spoke with 3 people already. I don't understand what writing a letter will do to help your situation now. You went to Disneyland at one of the busiest times of the year, arrived late, and wanted excessive, "I can't stand in lines," accommodations. Sorry, but, even with a DAS card, you will be standing in lines. Lines to eat, FP lines with a return time, lines to get a return time, etc.

 

[bidnow5]

I believe your issues would fit the mobility stamina category you can rent a wheelchair and alternate pushing and sitting

 

[seashoreCM]

I won't question why; that would be intrusive; so I will take what you said at face value.

You said you could not sit still for extended periods and you could also not stand still for extended periods.

You said you had to (on at least one occasion) get out of line and go sit down on a ledge, and then return to where the rest of your family was then waiting in the line.

Hmmmm. I'm thinking of a ledge, and space to walk up to it to sit, that moved along with you in line. Have a wheelchair that someone else in your family can push. Leave a space up ahead and you can get out of the wheelchair, stretch your legs, pace back and forth, and then sit down again.

(A few rides require that you leave the wheelchair behind before you get to the loading platform. Can you do the last 90 or so feet on your own?)

You might print out the text of your original post and tape that to the back of the wheelchair so others wondering why you seem so energetic getting up and pacing and sitting down again can read that and understand. Or a simpler piece of text (not a redaction of yours) "I can walk ... only to first base."

You may rent a wheelchair from Disney even if you walk some of the time or even walk most of the time. Because, without a wheelchair, you must walk all of the time.

 

[hedgehog2owl]

Hmmmm. I'm thinking of a ledge, and space to walk up to it to sit, that moved along with you in line. Have a wheelchair that someone else in your family can push. Leave a space up ahead and you can get out of the wheelchair, stretch your legs, pace back and forth, and then sit down again.

This is what I was thinking; leave a space and pace back and forth while in line. Actually most line are constantly moving anyway. depending on the ride...

Good luck!

 

[limabeanmom2003]

Sounds like your issues could be met with the use of a mobility device. No need for a DAS.

 

[aaarcher86]

It's not discriminatory to offer different accommodations for different needs... So honestly, I'd take that out of your letter. The blatant wrongness of that claim is going to be off putting.

It also comes off that your mother said her husband has autism to obtain the card. Does he really have autism or is that something she said flippantly to see of it worked? If it's the former, maybe reword it a bit. It doesn't come off that way, at least to me. It sounds like you guys we're trying to get a DAS for you and a DAS for your parents?

I'm sorry you had a rough time, but not being happy with utilizing the way the FP system works is definitely not a qualifying factor for the DAS. As already pointed out, you can have more then one FP. What you've actually described is how the DAS works - if you got a return time for 5 hours later and aren't able to ride something else with a FP or stand in line, THEN you are stuck riding nothing until your wait time is up. The link you're referring to about the DAS also states it is not for mobility issues, which is obviously what they were considering your issues as (and I agree)

I can't speak to the attitude of the CMs since I want there obviously, but it doesn't sound like you were wronged here.

Married2MM - you do need to describe your needs, not your disability. It doesn't mean that people won't lead with the disability though or use it to help explain, but it's not required.

 

[dison77]

Thanks for all the replies. I'll try to respond to them briefly here:

TheRustyScooper--You're exactly right. DAS is the correct accommodation, but they wouldn't give it to me. I didn't want "instant access". I wanted exactly what you described: a return time, standing in line for 10-15 minutes (no problem for me), being able to roam but waiting the same time as to ride as every other guest. That's what I got at WDW but not at Disneyland.

AnonymouseGirl--In principle, you're right. You can get a return time after 2hrs. However, on a busy day all popular FastPasses get distributed fairly early, so they're really just not available beyond a certain time. It would be great if they were current wait-time based in general, for everyone, but I'm sure that would pose other logistical issues I'm not thinking of.

Married2mm--Thanks for your kind thoughts. According to Disney policy and my understanding of the law, you're correct: you should not need to describe your disability, only what accommodations you require. But the CMs wouldn't give me the specific accommodation I requested (DAS) and wouldn't tell me what accommodations they /could/ make, so my only options were guessing at things they might be able to do until I found something or telling them about my disabilities and hoping they would suggest an appropriate accommodation.

2tinkerbell--We had dinner reservations already and quick service lines were still pretty short. The only places where you'd have to stand still (or amble slowly) more than 30mins at a time were the ride queues. As for why I'm writing the letter, it's to express our dissatisfaction with their customer service to their corporate office and at a time when they won't be as swamped with moment-to-moment concerns of running the park as they were that day. It would also be nice if it influenced how they implement their policy in the future. As for arriving late, that is undoubtedly the most difficult for people to understand about my disability, but I have no other choice--you'll simply have to take my word for it. My employer makes accommodations for that, certainly Disney can too.

To those suggesting a wheelchair, yes, it might have been possible to alternate between a wheelchair and walking. But having an additional unnecessary wheelchair in the park doesn't help anyone. It gives us one more thing to manage and it takes up more space in an already crowded park. It makes me an unreasonable burden to my family and getting up and setting down would have attracted unwanted attention from others. I wasn't looking for "front of the line" access, just to be allowed to waiting my turn somewhere else. That doesn't seem like an unreasonable accommodation.

Aarcher86--(1) Different accommodations for different needs is entirely reasonable, yes. Different accommodations for the same needs under a different name is not, which is part of why the ADA doesn't require you to disclose your disability--it prevents discrimination by diagnosis where more well known disabilities are accommodated and less well known ones are ignored. (2) Yes, we were trying to get two DAS cards. Since 3 of 4 people needed them, the idea was that if we split up or if two of us needed to leave, the others would be able to continue. At Disneyland, returns times are associated with your ticket, so there's no need to worry that we were trying to scam the system--they wouldn't allow us to have had two simultaneous returns on the same tickets anyway. We didn't mention my mom's husband' situation until the end because it shouldn't have been necessary and we prefer to speak for ourselves than to discuss the medical conditions of others. Had my mom gotten her DAS, we could have avoided talking about him all together which would have been preferable. (3) The general meaning of mobility disorders refers to an inability to move around normally (climbing stairs, walking, etc.) and not to a /need/ to move around. It's usually used in relation to things like wheelchair accessible entrances, ramps, etc. In any case, the link I was referring to does not mention the word "mobility" anywhere. Maybe we're looking at two different pages because I just searched the page for "mobility" and found nothing. The eligibility requirements are stated exactly as I quoted them. (4) Of course being mistaken about how FP works is not a DAS qualification. But as I've said, it's irrelevant because they were already shutting down the FP dispensers for popular rides after giving out all available passes.

To all:
At the end of the day, it boils down to this: Disney may or may not have been violating the letter of their DAS policy for denying the card for what may or may not have been considered a mobility issue. Their customer service, however, was appalling. We were spoken to like children and refused reasonable accommodations for legitimate needs. No other guests would have been affected by giving us the accommodation we asked for. We weren't trying to go to the front of the line or wait less than others. We paid our admission and wanted to be able to get the same access to rides with the same level of convenience (i.e., not navigating a wheelchair) as fully-abled guests. Instead I was given only non-viable choices: wait outside of the line and hope to meet up with someone holding our place in line (not a fun way to spend the day and too hard with so many people in the park) or use fastpasses which were unavailable anyway.

 

[limabeanmom2003]

To be honest, I am surprised you were issued a DAS card at WDW.

 

[aaarcher86]

We are all pretty well versed in ADA here. You're trying to apply ADA and what it means to them declining you a DAS. It doesn't work like that. They do not have to offer you the accommodation you want. They have to offer you a reasonable one. You've already stated that a wheelchair could meet your needs, but it's not preferential. The preference doesn't matter. From the description of your needs, 3 different CMs (and many people in your thread) offered a wheelchair as a suitable accommodation that would give you what you're looking for.

Not being able to get to the park until later is not something they need to accommodate. It doesn't matter if your employer does, which is great. They don't need to accommodate limited park time or the inability to obtain FP because everyone has the same opportunity to obtain them. There's a point where accommodation ends and personal responsibility begins - this is it. There are a lot of reasons every day where people, disability or not, can't get to the park/have to leave the park/get only a few hours or FP is gone. That's the way it goes. We all know that going in. If the park was in a phased closure, they wouldn't make an exception for someone arriving in the afternoon due to a disability.

I know that the DL DAS won't permit you to have 2 wait times and is attached to your ticket. It's a very recent change which is probably another reason (aside from also being a holiday) that they really stuck to their guns. While you don't feel that giving you the DAS affects anyone else, it's more of a big picture thing for the CMs. If there is a different accommodation that works, they'll defer to that, IMO. And as long as it's reasonable, that's all they have to do. It doesn't matter if you don't want a wheelchair or feel it makes it harder in other guests.

The second to last question on the FAQ is about disabilities that require a wheelchair or EVC, which are mobility devices. If one of these meets your needs, you would not need the DAS.

Did you decline the FP the manager offered you? That sounds like it would have solved your problem to be honest. The DAS sounds like it does exactly what you didn't want in regards to FP. I'm sorry you're unhappy with how you were treated. I would find it highly unlikely that Disney changes their policy with the DAS in regards to mobility issues (whether you feel like yours is one or not). As the above poster, I'm surprised you received a DAS at WDW a month prior as their response has been typical of what you've seen in the responses in this thread.

 

[Coonhound]

Unfortunately you do not qualify for a DAS.
Not sure why the CM gave you one at the other park.
While GAC was more accommodating to all types of disabilities, the way the DAS works is different.. the DAS is only for disabilities which cannot be helped by using a mobility device such as a wheelchair or scooter. Disney says if your need is mobility related, you do not need a DAS but instead can use a mobility device.
Now you may PREFER to have a DAS issued to you, but DAS cards are not available to the general public- there are certain qualifications for it, and if your need is mobility related, then you do not meet the qualifications for it.

 

[bidnow5]

I. Did get a DAS in our October trip to WDW. I was however prepared if I didn't I had to skip several rides that require transferring from my ECV to a wheelchair even with a DAS I couldn't do those. I didn't demand a special accommodation I gladly accepted the accommodation I did get

 

[lost*in*cyberspace]

OP, your letter is far too detailed with too much extraneous information. You should reduce it by about 2/3rds at least. I'm not sure what you expect Disney to do for you.

 

[OurBigTrip]

If your only issue is mobility, someone at WDW messed up by giving you a DAS there.

And if your group was going to stay together all day, why did everyone need a DAS?

 

[limabeanmom2003]

OP, it's a shame that WDW issued the card to you and placed the expectation in your mind that you would get one at any of their parks. It sounds like you had a great experience at Epcot getting engaged. Congratulations! Just be prepared to do the parks with or without the card. The great news is that at WDW you can arrange fp+ to fit your needs ahead of time.