DAS changes coming WDW May 20/ DL June 18, 2024

[Kgrace1989]

I think it might be worth understanding how very conflicting these two statements are in multiple ways.

On one level you are assuming things about children who do not have a neurodivergence in an environment like Disney, on another level you are assuming that the child with the neurodivergence has a worse reaction than one who does not and on another level you say you recognize that every single person is vastly different but don't apply that to two children with neurodivergence never mind applying that too a child who does and a child who doesn't.

This is one of the reasons why people are going to continue to push back against some of these comments. We need to recognize that we really can't assume the behaviors of any one individuals (child, adult, neurodivergent or not, etc)

I agree wholeheartedly with this. My sister has 4 children and one was diagnosed severely autistic, but all of them had meltdowns at times, and yes Jonathan’s meltdowns could be more severe than the others (but not always) and all of them loved theme parks and rides just as much as he did.. so my sister and her husband have really worked hard to find a balance of wanting him accommodated for his needs and realizing that his needs shouldn’t always give him priority over the needs of his typical brothers or peers.
One of the reasons that my sister insisted that his DAS at Disney was only him and one other person riding with him (they would use the DAS for rides he couldn’t handle the wait on and split up to those and then do the other attractions together) is because she said she really felt grateful he was given the opportunity to experience the parks in a way that worked for him, but wanted to be mindful of the fact that other young children were trying to experience the park and they didn’t deserve to have a “less than” experience simply because they were typical and he had challenges.
And I’m not saying that anyone who wants their entire party to ride with their special needs child is bad or wrong to want that, just trying to offer a different perspective.

 

[SueM in MN]

Epilepsy seems like a developmental disorder that will likely still qualify.

But I guess nobody knows for sure. Regardless, it should qualify for some accommodation.

A diagnosis of epilepsy all by itself doesn't mean the person has need for accommodation.
ADA and accommodations are needs based, not diagnosis based.

Agreed… and I am not at all suggesting that some disabilities are worse or more deserving of accommodations than others.
But my understanding is that Disney created the DAS system for autism and similar disabilities.. they were sued after discontinuing the previous pass and then in court Disney proved that this new system was reasonable for those with neurological disabilities that needed this sort of assistance.
It seems as though they let it get out of hand by offering it for many other challenges and now that they want to pull it back in, the only way they really can, is to start limiting who gets it-
and I imagine that they are not likely to take it away from the disabilities they argued that they created it for?
Again, not in anyway saying that anyone does or doesn’t deserve accommodations. Just thinking that this might be why they are so careful to announce they ate “preserving it” for those with autism and the like. Since I would think it could open up the potential for more litigation to win a case claiming you designed accommodations for a group and then take it away from that group .

There are a few differences between WDW and DL because of differences in things that were available at each. My in- person experience is WDW; the programs were similar, but there may be differences in how they worked for individual attractions. WDW traditionally has had more ways to handle people; most attractions had Fastpass (now Genie+) and wheelchair accessible lines. Mostly because of space limitations and the age of the park, Disneyland had/has less of both. Disney California Adventure Park has pretty much all wheelchair accessible attractions.

Guest Assistance Card (the program before DAS) was not primarily designed for guests with autism/developmental disabilities. It included stamps for various other disability related needs.
Attraction queues, in general, are designed to provide a steady stream on riders to the load area. Just looking at mobility, prior to the ADA, many of the queues were not accessible to guests with mobility aids or limitations. They often included stairs or were too narrow, so they used an 'alternate entry', which in most cases was the exit.
That also worked for people who had a problem with the queue itself. People with visible mobility needs whose needs were primarily mobility were not supposed to need GAC to use whatever was the accessible entrance. As lines were updated to be accessible, many guests needing accessibility didn't understand why they were sent to the exit for some rides and the regular line for others. There was a Moderator on another forum (no longer in existence) who wrote a long post about basically going into a 30 minute yelling match with a CM at a renovated attraction because she was being sent into the regular line, rather than the exit like she had used before. When the CM would not 'give', she posted that she went to Guest Relations and yelled at them for 20-30 minutes until they gave her the stamp she wanted.
The different stamps were confusing to everyone and (whether because of CMs giving in or guests making a scene and being demanding), eventually the largest group of guests with GAC probably had the 'alternate entry' stamp.

DAS, introduced in 2013, was also not primarily designed for guests with autism/developmental disabilities. It was designed for guests whose issues were with the actual waiting in the queue. The stamps for different accommodations were removed and 'moved' to asking the CM at the individual attractions for things like front row seating, avoiding stairs, etc. Guests whose primary need was mobility were supposed to qualify for DAS only if they had additional, non-mobility related needs.

I agree that the specific mention of autism is related to the past court case.

It will cut down on some due to them going to a third party to qualify. It also isn't all about getting rid of abuse but cutting down on the amount of guests using LL.

The majority of the information - including some people who have spoken to Disney's Disability Services - says that the third party medical company is NOT going to be doing the qualifying. It will remain Disney Cast Members. The third party will reportedly be doing training of the CMs who do the video calls, CMs at attractions and doing consulting

Then the problem is how can they know someone is lying about their DD if they can't ask for proof. Not like I have anything to hide, I carry proof around all the time, but I have never been asked about my disability once in parks after I received my DAS or equivalent program at other parks. But let's say they did start doing that, the person can just reiterate their disability and walk away essentially. All this new website statement is saying is other legitimate disabled people no longer can acquire DAS in attempts to limit the lies of others.

As has been mentioned many times, providing proof doesn't mean the person needs accommodations. Every diagnosis/condition is on a continuum. Some with the very same diagnosis have few needs and might not need any accommodations. Some might have a lot more issues and would need more assistance.
Asking for proof also implies that there is verification of the proof. The third party marketing group used by Universal is giving the illusion of verification, but I'm not sure they are doing anything other than spot checking, if that.
They ask for an email address, but health care providers/facilities can't share any personally identifiable information on email because email is not HIPAA compliant (including things like name, birthdate, address, NOT only health information). They also ask for the doctor's license number, but that is available online. And they ask for phone number, but calls dont go directly to the individual doctor; most people get a message that says call 911 for emergency and for other concerns, they will call you back within 24-48 hours. And, they may not talk to a third party unless they have signed authorization from the patient (I am a Health Care Provider).
Many people are reporting they got temporary approval within well less than 24 hours and permanent approval in 24.

This is what I thought as well, based on the original reporting. However, The Disney Dish transcript that was posted earlier seems to indicate otherwise, and Len had good sources:


The first bolded part could be interpreted in different ways. Third-party company is just verification, but the chat is with a Disney CM? But the second bolded part is more explicit - you'll have the chat with the company.

But he also says you can schedule the call 120 days in advance, which Disney's website clearly disagrees with, so I dunno...

If nothing, this highlights that Disney has been poor in releasing clear, useful info.

He is the only source reporting the bolded parts. Other sources, including people who have spoken with Disney Disability Services have been specifically told it will be Disney CMs on the call, not a third party and that the third party will be doing training and consulting

 

[sprem96]

The biggest issue I see with this method is that for almost every legitimate DAS using family, I believe most of us approach our visits with a very different strategy - we NEED to plan. Without meticulous planning, we cannot navigate a Disney day.

Each of our park days is planned so carefully to allow a DAS tap in; then likely a short, shaded, seated ride/show (train, Living with the Land, PhilharMagic, short films...etc); food/drink/bathroom; ride a ride...and then repeat. We use the short rides for shade, cool, and seating. Our script is almost identical every single time we visit each park, because we've figured out what works (we're Annual Passholders).

So, we may (on a good day) accomplish more "rides" than a family that wanders up to the gate, doesnt know the park layout, and wings it, and criss-crosses the park multiple times (we never, ever do that). Our researched and tested method is like a Touring Plan Ultra. So maybe that type of comparison is apples to oranges.

It's also relevant that on a "bad" day, we just don't go to the parks at all. So in our case, you'd need to average in the "zero" attraction days.

I love this analysis, because we all have different needs for our disabilities, the way we plan our days on DAS generally to reduce time and to keep things convenient for myself to always be in the knowledge where the accommodations are at all times, I go in 1 big circle, I don't zig zag, I don't go after 1 ride more in particular, I follow the circle and I use Genie+ and ILL along DAS to keep my circle moving as best as possible, sometimes I don't finish the circle, sometimes I skip a ride because I cant get a DAS time or Genie+ time that makes sense waiting around and I move on to the next nearest ride. Generally, when I have friends going to Disney for the first time, they come to me for advise because they know I've been there over 10 times, and they don't want to waste time on certain rides or where to go first etc., there are many factors to why a DAS user could do more than a standby person than just the DAS gives more access.

 

[Kgrace1989]

I'm not an artist so I can't do it myself but I want a third panel labeled "adapt" with the little dude building a better platform to stand on for everyone or cutting a hole in the fence or watching the game on a TV in a lounge chair.

I really love that analogy, and honestly it is the way the world works for almost everything, when something is a challenge we have to adapt

 

[jo-jo]

If you are allowed a DAS, can you add people to your group at a later date? Thinking getting ticket for DH and if he is approved, buy ticket and add me later.

 

[nalababybear]

I'm not an artist so I can't do it myself but I want a third panel labeled "adapt" with the little dude building a better platform to stand on for everyone or cutting a hole in the fence or watching the game on a TV in a lounge chair.

LOVE it! cutting a hole would be destructive though and the owners may not like such self made accommodations.

The latter certainly would be the VIP FOTL option equivalent - which would be a paid service and not an accommodation if Disney ever to offer such.

One could hope for 'adapt' with the better platform. Would the non-disabled insist on the top platform though?

 

[sprem96]

I feel the same way about people saying Crohns or UC is a "bathroom issue". Until you have lived it, or had a child with it, you cannot understand it.

**I edited/removed previous statement, too specific, could be used by abusers**

 

[voxparse]

Would the non-disabled insist on the top platform though?

Don't care. All I focus on when adapting is how to accommodate my needs and have fun and ensure my family does the same. What others do/demand/whine about isn't important to me. If my adaptation stops working, I find a new way.

 

[sprem96]

Maybe that can happen. That's the 2.5 boxes experience of equity that may actually happen to some DAS holders.

I think things like 2 preselects make that 2.5 boxes happen more often. I was surprised that Disney made that change when DAS 2.0 online became available. We utilize that about 25% of the time if the slot aligns with the DAS holder. If not, that's okay too.

Life is already complex for those with disabilities. I celebrate a society that would give the occasional over assist than under -- which is most of the time in life with disabilities.




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**I edited/removed previous statement, too specific, could be used by abusers**

 

[voxparse]

I think that is what gets lost in all this a lot of the time, people forget that people living with disabilities are at a massive disadvantage every day of their lives, and if it means the odd time they may get a bit more over someone else is okay in my books. A perfect example of this on a more extreme level is MAKE A WISH, my brother had leukemia in 2003 and fought it off thankfully by 2005, in 2006 Disney/Universal agreed to grant him his wish to come to those parks and my family of 5 at the time went to the parks and got to the front of the rides for everything. I think we can all safely agree that we are all okay with people in this situation getting this vastly special treatment, so why is so hard for people to be okay if disabled people may (depending on disabilities and other factors) get a bit more than a them in this one instance. Even when I have DAS and may ride things a little faster, doesn't mean I'm enjoying my day per say if my UC condition acts up all day.

The trick is to stop caring what other people think. They aren't going to help you adapt or be happy in your life so who cares what they think about how you do it? I know it is easier said than done but it is critical.

 

[Kgrace1989]

That thread is kind of part of the issue. A lot of people coaching on what to say, or to anticipate as a question from the cast member to have an answer ready to give back. I also would think a return to line pass for this person would be efficient enough to meet their needs than DAS based on what they describe (being able to fly, but needing to move occasionally and being in a car for 30 minute increments and then needing a movement break), these could reasonably be accommodated by this person leaving the line when they need a movement break and then returning after they have self-soothed.

I agree… if a need can be accommodated by something the person needs to do out of the regular line then it might be reasonable to issue a return to line pass.
I think the folks who haven a need that prevents them from being in the regular line to begin with, that is what might still need to be accommodated with the DAS (or equivalent) that allows them to wait outside the line and then enter a (hopefully) much shorter line.
And please note.. I’m not saying that any condition or issue is deserving or not deserving of that type of accommodation.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I think that is what gets lost in all this a lot of the time, people forget that people living with disabilities are at a massive disadvantage every day of their lives, and if it means the odd time they may get a bit more over someone else is okay in my books. A perfect example of this on a more extreme level is MAKE A WISH, my brother had leukemia in 2003 and fought it off thankfully by 2005, in 2006 Disney/Universal agreed to grant him his wish to come to those parks and my family of 5 at the time went to the parks and got to the front of the rides for everything. I think we can all safely agree that we are all okay with people in this situation getting this vastly special treatment, so why is so hard for people to be okay if disabled people may (depending on disabilities and other factors) get a bit more than a them in this one instance. Even when I have DAS and may ride things a little faster, doesn't mean I'm enjoying my day per say if my UC condition acts up all day.

I really don't think comparing Make a Wish is the route to go. Make a Wish as a program has the following qualifications

(1) children who have reached the age of 3 and are under the age of 18, and (2) who have been diagnosed with a critical illness, i.e., a progressive, degenerative, or malignant medical condition that has placed the child's life in jeopardy.

My husband's coworker's child did Make a Wish last year but with an illness that has an average survival time period after diagnosis of 9-15 months, 90% of those children diagnosed with the condition they have die within 2 years. Of course no one is going to disagree because we're talking about a child's mortality in a very real possibility and potentially quite imminent. That's not at all the same as other situations. It's granting a potentially dying child a trip not a voluntary theme park trip.

And I'm not even in the argument of discussing other disabled people getting a bit more, I don't really have an issue with that. But I can't think of a good reason to compare that with children who qualify for Make a Wish.

 

[Unity]

I wouldn't say adapt should be the outcome we need. But either liberation/justice.

 

[Kgrace1989]

I think that is what gets lost in all this a lot of the time, people forget that people living with disabilities are at a massive disadvantage every day of their lives, and if it means the odd time they may get a bit more over someone else is okay in my books. A perfect example of this on a more extreme level is MAKE A WISH, my brother had leukemia in 2003 and fought it off thankfully by 2005, in 2006 Disney/Universal agreed to grant him his wish to come to those parks and my family of 5 at the time went to the parks and got to the front of the rides for everything. I think we can all safely agree that we are all okay with people in this situation getting this vastly special treatment, so why is so hard for people to be okay if disabled people may (depending on disabilities and other factors) get a bit more than a them in this one instance. Even when I have DAS and may ride things a little faster, doesn't mean I'm enjoying my day per se if my UC condition acts up all day.

Absolutely, without a doubt make a wish kids should get priority.
And I think most people would be fine with those with disabilities getting an extra attraction a day…
I think where it might become a big ask for a lot of people is for them to be in a standby line with their tired toddler while many folks with special needs and 5 or so friends and family members get to ride.
But with several people with special needs in my family, I do understand where you’re coming from. I just think that when everyone has spent thousands to be there… they want the best experience they can have as well.

 

[greeneyedchick]

But I think Disney has to make their paid service more attractive because it’s not attractive at all. “Pay $15-$40 a day per person to ride maybe 3 rides with short lines. May the odds be ever in your favor.” - that’s basically their marketing slogan for G+

The irony is that Disney did have a paid service at Disneyland that worked pretty well and similar to Fastpass. I think it was called MaxPass. We have Universal's disability pass and have used Sea World's in the past. We never had Disney's because fastpass worked well enough for our needs. We haven't been back since covid and the dissolution of FP. I don't know why they can't just use Maxpass instead and charge more for it than they were at Disneyland. It didn't require pre-booking of rides 60 days in advance. It was open to resort and non-resort guests. It didn't sell out, nor require you to wake up at 7am. I feel like Disney (like always) unnecessarily complicated things and made them less attractive for everyone.

 

[rastuso]

E

That thread is kind of part of the issue. A lot of people coaching on what to say, or to anticipate as a question from the cast member to have an answer ready to give back. I also would think a return to line pass for this person would be efficient enough to meet their needs than DAS based on what they describe (being able to fly, but needing to move occasionally and being in a car for 30 minute increments and then needing a movement break), these could reasonably be accommodated by this person leaving the line when they need a movement break and then returning after they have self-soothed.

Exactly. Disney knows those threads exist. They may even keep a log of how many people describe their child's condition in an unbelievably similar way, consistently.

Over the life of online forums, discussion has moved from ECVs and wheelchairs to autism. Not surprisingly, it has followed the changes in assistance passes.

People have been abusing it for decades, and the number is getting worse. And, since Disney refuses to invest to significantly increase ride capacity, it's a MASSIVE problem now.

As one PP said, the parents with autistic kids go WAY out of their way to say all autistic kids are different, but then just brush aside parents who say their "normal" kids have meltdowns too, so shouldn't they get to skip lines too?

Many have abused this system. Those who were faking, AND those who needed it to some degree.

When my late wife's severe bathroom issues from J-pouch surgery got her one, we quickly realized how absolutely incredible the pass was. But we never used more than 3 slots. But usually saw huge groups joining the line with us.

Plus, it's insane to just sluff off those in wheelchairs. I was a single father with an ECV and a 6 year old one trip. I got no accommodations, and had to fight afor a pass for a single trip to HHN. Yet, had I said she was autistic, I would have been set.

I can't wait for severe crackdowns. It's ling overdue, but I won't be surprised if it isn't so severe.

 

[sprem96]

I really don't think comparing Make a Wish is the route to go. Make a Wish as a program has the following qualifications

(1) children who have reached the age of 3 and are under the age of 18, and (2) who have been diagnosed with a critical illness, i.e., a progressive, degenerative, or malignant medical condition that has placed the child's life in jeopardy.

My husband's coworker's child did Make a Wish last year but with an illness that has an average survival time period after diagnosis of 9-15 months, 90% of those children diagnosed with the condition they have die within 2 years. Of course no one is going to disagree because we're talking about a child's mortality in a very real possibility and potentially quite imminent. That's not at all the same as other situations. It's granting a potentially dying child a trip not a voluntary theme park trip.

And I'm not even in the argument of discussing other disabled people getting a bit more, I don't really have an issue with that. But I can't think of a good reason to compare that with children who qualify for Make a Wish.

I did mention I wanted to specify that Make a Wish is the extreme case, my brother went through that process so I know all about it, what I'm saying is a person with a disability in some degree is a smaller dose over a much longer period of time and yet people are so quick to point the finger and say why do they get more than me. These people suffer every day, it affects the way they live, they have real pains, altered plans, extra costs, mentally/physical/emotional exhaustion. If we as a society can give just a little bit to their day to make it a bit more happy for a few hours, then I think they deserve that. Now on the flip side, there has to be a way to properly rule out the abusers from ruining programs like DAS, because as we're seeing, DAS is significantly getting weaker and weaker from what it was before and people with genuine disabilities are the ones losing out in the long term.

 

[smartlabelprint]

If I am interpreting the tea leaves correctly, I am someone (with a legit medical condition) who may fall into overuse (or more provocatively “misuse”)— we used to use FP+ and tried G+ and wheelchair before a spine doctor suggested DAS (even still at DLR we do not use DAS because we can get on enough of the rides my kids love with G+ and ILL and they can understand that some days we just can’t do everything or they can ride with dad while mom does laps around the Matterhorn or curls up in a ball on a bench. I suspect going forward Disney wants me to use rider switch (alone or with one kid) if I want to ride—which isn’t perfect but feels fairer than nothing between DAS and not riding anything over a 30m wait. We might visit a little less, probably ride shorter rides or rides where we buy LL together, and I’ll skip some of the other rides (also easier when one/both kids are old enough to not need an adult)— as I mentioned a hundred pages ago, we didn’t do TT even with LL and/or DAS on our last trip because the line was too long…and we should have skipped BTMRR if we knew it would be as long as it was.

Not sure how others would feel but I would wholeheartedly support Disney tracking park visits via phone/MB and defaulting to denying DAS to users who use DAS and end up with more than say 133% of the average rides completed by a non-DAS user who had been at the park from rope drop to close. Not saying they would definitely be denied, but much more scrutiny should be applied and it would probably be a strong indicator you would be ok with more limited accommodations. I actually think a variety of variations on this theme would hold up in court— “we gave them DAS, saw they did 1.5x as many rides as the average guest, stayed 90% of park hours, and flagged them to modify accommodation on next visit.”

Finally, I do expect DAS to be more centered on children in part because it’s less common for a “faker” to be able to come up with a child with developmental disabilities, but also is the party is limited to 4, even if you are able to convince a family with a special needs child to join you, it’s not going to make your day faster or easier and you can’t bring many of your friends. I really hope Disney is already keeping track of everyone with wrong answers and identical scripted statements because I do fear people who get screened out will keep researching (on boards like this) and calling back until they succeed.

I was just thinking today that they should doubly scrutinize people who have called back after being rejected. Surely they can see the rejection notes?!

I don’t know how they’d implement the tracking and compiling but I think it would be beneficial. The autistic child mentioned above that re-rode the same thing is going to be a fairly common occurrence.
————
I also wanted to add for someone above that mentioned severe cases and how they’ll function as an adult, it’s hard to tell. My son doesn’t like to leave the house. But as he’s aged his reasoning faculties are advancing, etc. My daughter is super social and appears neurotypical, but she’s the one that will scratch my eyes out when dysregulated. You never know. This is why I agree some adults with DD will need DAS as adults. @Kgrace1989 @LongLiveRafiki

 

[greeneyedchick]

Unfortunately the reality is that ride capacity is limited, particularly on the Tier 1 rides, and demand well exceeds supply, and there are only so many ways to bring supply/demand back into balance.

1. increase supply = nonstarter in the near-term
2. reduce demand

Traditionally demand is reduced by increasing prices. No one wants to hear that Genie+ is actually too cheap, but the reality is that if it is selling out it probably is. VIP tours are sold out at $500-1,000/hour, and DLP sells their version of Genie+ (superior product, IMO) for hundreds, not tens, of dollars. Demand is also “reduced” by increasing wait times (because if you are standing in line for Slinky you can’t also be standing in line for Rise).

They could also increase hours. If they were open 8am-2am like they used to be, people with older kids or problems with heat could go later. It would spread out the crowds and open up more slots in genie for rides. People wouldn't feel so rushed. They could also commit to designing more high capacity rides. That doesn't seem to be a priority . I had an imagineer tell me (after Rise opened) that they actually like having people wait in line so that they can appreciate all of the details that Imagineers added to the line.

 

[Jellybean9]

I love this analysis, because we all have different needs for our disabilities, the way we plan our days on DAS (UC disability), generally to reduce time and to keep things convenient for myself to always be in the knowledge where the nearest bathrooms are at all times, I go in 1 big circle, I don't zig zag, I don't go after 1 ride more in particular, I follow the circle and I use Genie+ and ILL along DAS to keep my circle moving as best as possible, sometimes I don't finish the circle, sometimes I skip a ride because I cant get a DAS time or Genie+ time that makes sense waiting around and I move on to the next nearest ride. Generally, when I have friends going to Disney for the first time, they come to me for advise because they know I've been there over 10 times, and they don't want to waste time on certain rides or where to go first etc., there are many factors to why a DAS user could do more than a standby person than just the DAS gives more access.

I think everyone wants to go in a circle and not zigzag but when your only asset is Genie+, you inevitably have to zigzag.