DAS changes coming WDW May 20/ DL June 18, 2024

[theMoreDisneytheBetter]

But Disney has said it will allow DAS user plus 3 or immediate family which I think is still very generous. But, to touch on this point that I have read often in this thread, I don't get this thinking that IF a party is separated for just the DAS rides (maybe 3-5 per day, some users say even less than that) their vacation is no longer a family one. You are still together (if you want to be) the entire day from the hotel part to swimming, meals, snacks, shopping, fireworks, shows, transportation, hotel touring and so on. The things to do together at Disney as a family are endless. Not to mention all the other rides a family might do together while waiting on their DAS time because of low wait times. It seems that for some that no change Disney will bring about will be good enough unless it is the status quo which shows you how superior the DAS really is and thus the over use and abuse it gets.

When DD was little, ALL she wanted to do was visit the characters. We had one visit where I have pictures of 30-something DIFFERENT interactions. Needless to say DS was “over” princesses pretty quickly, so I took DD and Dad or Nana took my son to do other things. We also had one “bad” trip where DD was afraid of everything (including the drain pipe in one of the rides) so we spent very little time in the parks that year. Now my husband has a lot of rides that he can no longer do (due to claustrophobia and panic attacks), so either he will sit out by himself or someone will decide to stay back with Dad. Or someone will need a snack/jacket/whatever and I’ll skip the ride to take care of things. It’s just part of being a family, and I never felt like our Disney trips were ‘lesser’ because we weren’t always together. If anything, it is nice to be able to give my kids what THEY need instead of forcing everyone to compromise.

 

[SueM in MN]

I wonder if those people had Universal accommodations prior to the card? For the few people I have spoken to, Universal has not changed who qualifies for accommodations, only that the card was required first. We had no issues qualifying, even with a disability that theoretically Disney no longer accepts. Nor did we find the questions more rigorous or detailed.

The people I've seen posting who had no issues getting Universal accommodations WERE mostly people that already had gotten accommodations at Universal

1. I think that would be a huge positive change for G+ users of all types! Still won’t do anything for me because I can’t afford to pay for G+ every time I spend a day at WDW (local who visits often.)

2. Sounds like something others would enjoy! I’m still not paying for G+ lol, but also I never make advance selections now because I don’t know what I’ll want to do on any given day until I’m there. (ETA: I assume I wouldn’t get a free selection as an AP without a resort reservation in the first place in this scenario.)

3. Again, nope: not paying anything extra.

4a. ETA: just realized there were two 4s! VQ is great, but doesn’t take the place of DAS - for TRON, for instance, I’m VQing but then also need to use DAS when my group is called back.

4b. This would be fine for me, since I don't use G+ in the first place.


I’m pretty convinced they do store more than just a note that you've had DAS before - only because the last few times I’ve renewed, I opened with “I’d like to renew my DAS, please, as my 60 days expired a few weeks ago”, the CM pulled up whatever info they have on their iPad, seemed ready to ask what my needs were, then stopped, clearly read something, and said something to the effect of “Oh, yes, no problem. Just a moment… and you’re all set. Do you need to add any other parties today?” I mean, maybe I just happened to have had a few CMs that didn’t feel like questioning - it’s possible, I guess. But I suspect whatever note they have for me in there probably says why I need the DAS and that reason isn’t something that’s likely to have changed over a month or two.

They do have SOME Information on their record. Not sure how much or exactly what.
CMs were supposed to be re-asking the questions, not just renewing (at least from everything I've seen)

Disney will continue to provide accommodations - it’s just a change in how that works.

And I have heard several folks who were denied at Universal for “bathroom-related” needs.

I have heard the same thing. Most of the ones I've seen who posted they were approved for "bathroom - related" need were those who were approved prior to Universal going to the third party verification process and were already in Universal's own system. The ones I've seen who posted they were not approved were mostly not in Universal's system prior

I find this kind of argument so interesting, because here in Europe (including at Disneyland Paris) you provide evidence of your disability or don't get a pass. That simple. And we do not seem to have the issues with misuse that the US does, and I have never heard issues of forged documentation. (I think some conditions that woul qualify in the US, would not easilt here though - there's sort of a threshold of disability...but in exceptional circumstance, there is always the option of a letter from a doctor, that they will look at, no issue.)

The biggest difference is that Europe has a system of registered disabilities that the US doesn't have.
In the US, some people have handicapped parking permits. Some people are approved for Social Security Disability. Some are approved for individual Disability programs in their state. Some military Veterans have various disability levels.
Not all of these things really show an impact for waiting in theme parks.

That's interesting I didn't know they did that in the international parks.
It could be that they want to ask about evidence/diagnosis here in the USA but are afraid because of US law, since some of the other parks that do it are getting sued

Some of it has to do with the ADA around not requiring proof of disability

I am still trying to catch up, but did want to comment on a few things.

I think the idea of having a waiting area/room with bathrooms is fine. However I do not like the idea of requiring people to use it. I don't think this is what the OP was trying to say, but requiring it seems like you are forcing the disabled people out of sight so the general public does not have deal with or think about them.

Rider Switch in its current form takes time! Not sure it is a great option for a group who all can/want to ride. I was thankful for the Rider Switch option when my kids were smaller and we needed. My oldest may be gotten in some extra rides because of it. Overall though, it takes longer to tour with Rider Switch.

Is there anyone happy with the current Genie+ program? I think the fact that G+ is so bad is a big part of the problem. Many have said they were able to make FP+ work for them. When the replacement is worse and costs money, of course there are going to be issues. While I don't think you should have to pay for accommodations, I think if you are offering a paid service, there needs to be some value to it. It G+ was a better maybe demand for DAS would be less.

They can expand capacity by keeping the parks open longer. This will spread out crowds.

I have read Disney is rolling out some changes to Genie+
I haven't seen anything about what the changes might be, but apparently they want to make the changes to DAS before anything Genie+ rolls out

The punishment was always a permanent ban from parks, yet here we are. One thing my career has taught me is that you cannot dissuade people out of crime by listing punishments.

Yes.
The Guest Assistance Card, which was replaced by DAS in 2013 had wording on the card that said the guest agreed they were using GAC because of disability and there would be penalties for lying. I don't remember the exact wording, but it did talk about penalties.
When DAS was a paper card, information pretty much like it is presently was written right on the card. When CM started using a tablet for DAS registration, guests had to read and sign the Terms and Conditions that included pretty much the wording used now. The same Terms and Conditions need to be signed and agreed to on the website before entering into the DAS chat portion. I'm sure some people don't read it, but I'm also sure Disney keeps that as a record to be used if the needed

I do think when I look at various news sources that line about banning has gotten a lot of attention often front and center. Even with it being part of past language most of the time people only saw someone get banned they went into an unauthorized area, climbing the pyramid in Epcot, fighting or combativeness with Disney employees or security or extreme drunken behaviors and even then for the most part that was limited to Disney fan sites less blasted out in the news.

Now the spotlight is on this DAS adjustment and suddenly there's a high focus on the language about banning and the like.

It's really only as good as Disney enforcing it and applying that to all should they actually find issues (and I hope they don't go extreme here but that they do actually put in some teeth) but I think at least at the moment the word is out about the possible consequences in a very public way.

I've seen some blatant misuses by 'influencers' who are live-streaming in the parks. One I saw from Disneyland, the 'influencer' was using his sister's ECV to get wheelchair return times in the park. He was responding real time to comments, things like "yes. It's my sisters, but she's not using it right now, so I thought I'd get myself (and 3 companions) a wheelchair entry time". He was doing a lot of explaining and showing how to 'work the system'. I know he was reported to Disney - conveniently, they could find him from his Facebook and YouTube channels.
Some of the people banned for things like scaling the pyramid in Mexico or jumping in the water in front of Italy apparently are using even banning to get clicks. I doubt most of the people penalized for disability abuse are wanting a lot of publicity about that.

 

[Disturbia]

I am still trying to catch up, but did want to comment on a few things.

I think the idea of having a waiting area/room with bathrooms is fine. However I do not like the idea of requiring people to use it. I don't think this is what the OP was trying to say, but requiring it seems like you are forcing the disabled people out of sight so the general public does not have deal with or think about them.

Rider Switch in its current form takes time! Not sure it is a great option for a group who all can/want to ride. I was thankful for the Rider Switch option when my kids were smaller and we needed. My oldest may be gotten in some extra rides because of it. Overall though, it takes longer to tour with Rider Switch.

Is there anyone happy with the current Genie+ program? I think the fact that G+ is so bad is a big part of the problem. Many have said they were able to make FP+ work for them. When the replacement is worse and costs money, of course there are going to be issues. While I don't think you should have to pay for accommodations, I think if you are offering a paid service, there needs to be some value to it. It G+ was a better maybe demand for DAS would be less.

They can expand capacity by keeping the parks open longer. This will spread out crowds.

They can also raise ticket prices to include the cost of Genie+ and just bring back pre booking at 10 days prior (I believe the surveys indicate that pre booking is the direction they’re moving towards but keeping the cost optional).

Add more after hours events (remember extra magic hours are now being sold for $100+) to make $$$$.

 

[Jeanette Sherman]

Feel like they should take a look at actual ride use data if they want to see who's abusing the system. People who are riding 15-20 rides per day? A lot more likely to be faking than people who are like my family, 3-4 rides max before we go back home. With a family of six people (including four kids, three of whom are too little to be on Disney rides alone, and two including the one who is technically "Disney alone age" who have autism and sensory processing issues), our days at the parks are complicated. It's why we have an AP: there's no way we can be at the parks more than a few hours, six on an extremely good day (this maybe happens once in the whole year). In that time, we'll probably do about one attraction per hour, even if they have a 15 minute wait.

Having met a lot of other DAS parents in the parks, I'd say our pattern of use is very similar to many of theirs. When you have kids with additional needs, you spend a lot of between-ride time doing little tasks other parents and families aren't generally thinking about. It's not the kind of thing where you can just "power through" and go hit up some other lines while you wait. I guess maybe if the ride was Flight of Passage and the wait was forever, but we don't go on that one (and we avoid parks on crowded days for what I assume are obvious reasons from everything else I've said here, so we never see super-long waits on rides we actually do)! I think our most-commonly visited attraction is the Carousel of Progress, not exactly king of the waits there.

I would guess there's a very typical abuse profile for DAS. I'd guess the guests involved in these routinely bring other people to enter their DAS party, use their passes to ride high-wait rides repeatedly, and rarely bother with "low-value"/low-wait lines on their DAS, electing instead to duck into those lines during their DAS wait times for E-ticket attractions.

I promise everyone here who is talking about how they don't like the DAS system, you do not want my special needs kids in the line with you if things go off. I promise you. I would rather be anywhere else when that kicks off, except they're mine and I love them and I need to get them through it. And they love the parks so much. But my three year old's shriek is like something calculated to make people take their birth control. He's the most wonderful, special kid who loves letters and numbers and his family and any ride where you go fast...but in meltdown mode it's so hard. We can't get sitters. We can't go a lot of places. Maybe in a few years the boys will have greater adaptive capabilities, but it's hard to tell. No one knows what the future looks like for these kids, some of them learn good adaptations and coping skills (like I did as a spectrum kid back in the day). Others don't.

I'm grateful that it looks like we'll still be accommodated, at least for now, as a whole family. It would devastate my boys to be separated from our family because of their needs. So we'd probably go in the regular lines. If the meltdown happens, it happens...it would have happened in the bathroom or wherever. We stay out of the regular lines as a courtesy to other guests, so that these meltdowns happen somewhere more private where we disturb fewer people. I don't think Disney (or other guests) have any desire to give me an incentive to just keep him thrashing in line.

 

[lanejudy]

That's interesting I didn't know they did that in the international parks.
It could be that they want to ask about evidence/diagnosis here in the USA but are afraid because of US law, since some of the other parks that do it are getting sued

Different countries have different laws regarding how disabilities are handled for public accommodations. Many countries have a sort of “national registry” or database, along with an ID card or paperwork. The US has nothing like that. The ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) is the primary guidance for public accommodations in the US, and yes it frowns on “proof” for basic accessibility (accommodations that create an “equal” access or opportunity). That is also the basis of the lawsuits against Six Flags, Universal and IBCCES.

Yes, it must be a fear of the laws.

No, not “fear” of the laws. Following the laws. And the laws vary in different countries - which is why so many non-US folks expect to show documentation rather than explaining their needs.

 

[Rowab]

Different countries have different laws regarding how disabilities are handled for public accommodations. Many countries have a sort of “national registry” or database, along with an ID card or paperwork. The US has nothing like that. The ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) is the primary guidance for public accommodations in the US, and yes it frowns on “proof” for basic accessibility (accommodations that create an “equal” access or opportunity). That is also the basis of the lawsuits against Six Flags, Universal and IBCCES.



No, not “fear” of the laws. Following the laws. And the laws vary in different countries - which is why so many non-US folks expect to show documentation rather than explaining their needs.

The fact that universal and similiar can set up a third party to look at evidence seems to suggest that the law is not that clear cut. I know theres lawsuits ongoing, but there's no way they made that move without checking if it was feasibly allowed.

But anyway, my point is less "they should ask for evidence" and more that it does not make sense "they shouldn't ask for evidence cos its easily forged". People aren't forging evidence en masse anywhere else. Laws, CM's not being trained for it, etc, are seperate issues, yes.

 

[nighttowll]

But would a guest who needed disability rider swap really need it for “every single attraction”? If that guest is able to wait in lines of less than about 20 to 30 minutes (which is the wait time in a typical lightning lane) then they should be OK with standby lines of a similar length, where the whole party can still stay together. For example, right now (I just looked) only 4 rides in MK have standby lines longer than 30 minutes. That leaves a lot of rides where DAS rider swap would not be needed if the DAS user is OK with lines of 30 minutes or less.

I do agree that splitting up for only a few rides is reasonable. I was looking at it as if you needed DAS because you need to wait near a bathroom, that doesn't go away if the line is 20 or 30 minutes, so you'd always be using it.

RS may work. It will just depend on how they roll it out. The main issue I see with it are solo travelers, and those in parties of 2, possibly 3. I don't think they should be split up for every line. Does that mean I think they should give them DAS, no. I'm all for letting people wait somewhere together and not allowing them to do other things, so their experience is the same as that of those trapped in the line. That I think would be fair. I'm also not advocating for the whole party to accompany them while they wait either, but I think they should be allowed 1 person at minimum, especially when you have caregiver situations.

Honestly, it's all just speculation right now on what will happen, and I have already stated numerous times, I am not against alternative accommodations as long as they work. I never liked DAS to begin with because I did think it gave everyone the same accommodation which wasn't always what was needed. Can't stand in sun / heat, ok here's a DAS, instead of simply allowing them an alternative place to wait where it is cool for the few lines that are outside. I get that in the past there was no good way to provide custom accomodations, but as the Mod posted earlier, now they could go back to something similiar to GAC electronocally. I would be all for that.

 

[HopperFan]

But Disney has said it will allow DAS user plus 3 or immediate family which I think is still very generous.

This is not directed at you but using your comment to ask the greater audience ~

WHERE has Disney directly shared this information?? I ask because several sources are making comments including "4" and "immediate family" but they all seem to interpret it differently, including what immediate family means. I know what I have sourced as it meaning but lots of folks think differently. Some said 4 is the number period, some say 4 is only the number if non-related, which is sad because some "families" are not related. Very little clarity here.

But, to touch on this point that I have read often in this thread, I don't get this thinking that IF a party is separated for just the DAS rides (maybe 3-5 per day, some users say even less than that) their vacation is no longer a family one. You are still together (if you want to be) the entire day from the hotel part to swimming, meals, snacks, shopping, fireworks, shows, transportation, hotel touring and so on. The things to do together at Disney as a family are endless. Not to mention all the other rides a family might do together while waiting on their DAS time because of low wait times. It seems that for some that no change Disney will bring about will be good enough unless it is the status quo which shows you how superior the DAS really is and thus the over use and abuse it gets.

Excellent point. Families split up at Disney ALL THE TIME. When members are too short they split up to do Rider Switch or different activities, when members have different likes they split up to do different rides, I've seen plenty on here that split up to eat at different locations based on likes or levels of meal, families split up cause some want to ride or shop or see a show or visit a character and others don't. We all stay together at hotel, we eat most our meals together, we ride to parks and enter together (although some trips we have split up and gone to different parks, meeting later in day). Do some do every single thing together? Yes. But the argument that Disney vacation means no one every parts way so they can't be apart doesn't work.

I find this kind of argument so interesting, because here in Europe (including at Disneyland Paris) you provide evidence of your disability or don't get a pass. That simple. And we do not seem to have the issues with misuse that the US does, and I have never heard issues of forged documentation. (I think some conditions that woul qualify in the US, would not easilt here though - there's sort of a threshold of disability...but in exceptional circumstance, there is always the option of a letter from a doctor, that they will look at, no issue.)

Our system is broken here. It has gotten out of control with less stringent requirements. We have no official proof of disability just like there is no proof any dog is a service dog. So we have pets everywhere they shouldn't be. We should have both. Because our medical system is what it is many who have disabilities can't even afford to get care or diagnosis or documentations. There shouldn't be the constant games with the weight on businesses to accept whatever they are told and have to give concessions.

I get the law aspect, and why universal brought in a third party. So that makes it trickier, I just don't agree forgery etc would be a huge issue

I would not be looking at Universal for a role model. I'm waiting for Universal to be watching Disney. Universal thought they were making a good move but they are handing out passes like candy. Seems like if the 3rd party says yes you have a disability, and from what we can see they'll practically take anything which easily can be photoshopped, rather than determine what they will offer if any, they just give a card. I've heard of no one being refused. Here forgery is likely a big issue because there is no verification system.

Yes, it must be a fear of the laws. At DLP, not only do you provide evidence, but mobility disabilities, disgarded for DAS in the US already, get you the highlest level which skips waiting entirely. And yet their system is not buckling like in the US. The only difference can be needing evidence, surely.

But we don't have a valid system for providing evidence. I wish we did. Right now I am jumping through massive hoops to get a public service for my DS, it is stressful and upsetting, and I am providing proof. I know a person who got the same thing who was scamming the system and they got it easily, with lies. We are broken on all levels.

And honestly while I think there are plenty of total fakers ~ I've been in line with them ~ the problem sounds like what it was the last time with GAC ~ overuse. Too many passes given for issues that Disney can address otherwise without impacting operations. Disney will make their operational decisions (and we can be assured it will be legal) and guests can decide if it works for them or not.

 

[Evita_W]

The fact that universal and similiar can set up a third party to look at evidence seems to suggest that the law is not that clear cut. I know theres lawsuits ongoing, but there's no way they made that move without checking if it was feasibly allowed.

But anyway, my point is less "they should ask for evidence" and more that it does not make sense "they shouldn't ask for evidence cos its easily forged". People aren't forging evidence en masse anywhere else. Laws, CM's not being trained for it, etc, are seperate issues, yes.

It is the same system Six Flags has setup and Six Flags is being sued over it, Universal was most smart to start that one at this time.

 

[nighttowll]

So all you do is stand in line and ride? You don’t eat meals together, you don’t spend time at the resort or hotel? You don’t go through shops or see shows?

That's not really my point. What if Disney changed the DAS so only the DAS holder and possibly 1 other person could wait outside the line. The rest of the group would have to go through the standby line, so you could RS. You don't think all the people that still qualify now wouldn't be upset if they had to be separated for every line.

The average number of rides per day at Disney is 9 at an average wait time of 36 minutes, that's 5 and half hours of waiting vs a little over 1 hour of riding together. Yes, you can spend time together outside of rides, but I don't think people should be forced to spend half or more of their vacation apart, and if we say well just do other stuff, then why did I come to Disney? I can take a cheaper vacation somewhere else if I'm just going to eat out, shop, and enjoy the resorts.

 

[Kerr84]

I don’t know a lot about the universal system because we are taking my daughter for the first time this summer. I applied for the card a few weeks ago. I used her evaluation and goals from her BCBA therapist and we were approved less than 48 hours later, so I’m not sure how much they really look at the information. We are still waiting for universal to call us so we don’t know if she will get accommodations or what those will be. This could be coincidence but right after I signed up, I have been getting spam calls left and right. I do think they sold my information to others because I didn’t sign up for anything else recently.

Editing to add that I think universal only added this as a hoop to jump through to deter liars.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

but "it could be easily faked" isn't to me, I think that would be exceedingly rare.

I think because you're more used to it it doesn't seem as plausible but there's not really a universal form for someone's describing their personal diagnosis regarding this topic for doctor's use, nor a universal form used to specify one's needs because it's not something we encounter here much.

People encounter doctor's notes for illness such as cold and flu for work or school, that's not unheard of though difficult to obtain at times, but not for accommodations from a business such that were talking about especially as personal as the information can be pertaining to someone's needs.

I'm not saying that it's a given that a significant amount of falsified documents make their way to the business that is asking for documentation but I would say it's probably more likely to occur here instead of in a country where asking for documentation is normal and accepted and processes are set up with expectations of documentation.

With the third party being brought in, I feel like the OPTION to share documentation (with the third party medical professional, to lessen the burden on CMs) would just make sense for those who can provide it and otherwise fear they may not get the right accomdation.

I don't disagree as a generic comment and I know the angst some people feel that they would really be okay with giving what may be asked because they have legit issues and want to increase the chance that their needs would be accommodated but would say that when the thread came about for the Universal documentation requirement it was filled with a lot of anger, frustration and dissatisfaction with Universal going this route. I think this thread is reflecting that when the change is perceived to be more negative a showing of documentation to some becomes a better solution (which is fair but can't be applied to everyone).

 

[Evita_W]

This is not directed at you but using your comment to ask the greater audience ~

WHERE has Disney directly shared this information?? I ask because several sources are making comments including "4" and "immediate family" but they all seem to interpret it differently, including what immediate family means. I know what I have sourced as it meaning but lots of folks think differently. Some said 4 is the number period, some say 4 is only the number if non-related, which is sad because some "families" are not related. Very little clarity here.


Excellent point. Families split up at Disney ALL THE TIME. When members are too short they split up to do Rider Switch or different activities, when members have different likes they split up to do different rides, I've seen plenty on here that split up to eat at different locations based on likes or levels of meal, families split up cause some want to ride or shop or see a show or visit a character and others don't. We all stay together at hotel, we eat most our meals together, we ride to parks and enter together (although some trips we have split up and gone to different parks, meeting later in day). Do some do every single thing together? Yes. But the argument that Disney vacation means no one every parts way so they can't be apart doesn't work.


Our system is broken here. It has gotten out of control with less stringent requirements. We have no official proof of disability just like there is no proof any dog is a service dog. So we have pets everywhere they shouldn't be. We should have both. Because our medical system is what it is many who have disabilities can't even afford to get care or diagnosis or documentations. There shouldn't be the constant games with the weight on businesses to accept whatever they are told and have to give concessions.


I would not be looking at Universal for a role model. I'm waiting for Universal to be watching Disney. Universal thought they were making a good move but they are handing out passes like candy. Seems like if the 3rd party says yes you have a disability, and from what we can see they'll practically take anything which easily can be photoshopped, rather than determine what they will offer if any, they just give a card. I've heard of no one being refused. Here forgery is likely a big issue because there is no verification system.


But we don't have a valid system for providing evidence. I wish we did. Right now I am jumping through massive hoops to get a public service for my DS, it is stressful and upsetting, and I am providing proof. I know a person who got the same thing who was scamming the system and they got it easily, with lies. We are broken on all levels.

And honestly while I think there are plenty of total fakers ~ I've been in line with them ~ the problem sounds like what it was the last time with GAC ~ overuse. Too many passes given for issues that Disney can address otherwise without impacting operations. Disney will make their operational decisions (and we can be assured it will be legal) and guests can decide if it works for them or not.

Not every operational change Disney makes is legal, they have lost plenty of times, it just gets buried or settled out of court before the loss becomes official. For example, this is why there are crates for service animals at the attractions that service animals can't ride. Additionally, this is why Disney no longer requires proof for disabilities. Back in the 90s, Disney did require proof to get what was called back then a Disability Access Pass (DAP for short) and someone was in the line for Indiana Jones at Disneyland and fell because of their disability that they didn't have proof of. Now this is the sad part, people just walked over and some even stepped on the person. The person and their family sued Disney and the courts ordered them to stop requiring proof. Of course this was a person who was playing by the rules, there were many places around Disney where you could get a doctor's note for $5 to $20 that advertised "beat the lines". The Internet was still in its infancy at that point, so there aren't a lot of people that were aware of this. Many who had annual passes and disabilities became aware of it slowly, usually by talking to others. DH only found out about to by talking to a family member of the person it happened to.

At WOC, Disney tried to move all wheelchair seating to the back, DH made a video showing that it was not equal to the views they used to be able to get, sent it to Disney and their legal team reviewed it, agreed and readjusted the seating because the move was a policy change and was not legal as a result.l since it resulted in poorer views.

So no, not every change Disney makes is legal.

 

[smartlabelprint]

My son does have an AAC device (Wego7 with Proloquo 2 go on it) but he isn't a huge fan of it. He can respond to some questions, thankfully. And we've come to understand his core needs fairly well. As for a stroller, he actually stopped wanting to use a stroller by age 5. I remember bringing it to Disneyland when he was 5 and he refused to sit in it at all. We just pushed an empty stroller the whole time. So we never needed a wagon or a special needs stroller for him. (Though I have several friends who use both for their large kids.) Sensory issues are difficult because he doesn't like to wear noise cancelling headphones. He'll usually just cover his ears and make sounds to try to block things out.

Has he tried loop earplugs? I’ve graduated my 9 yo to them.

 

[nighttowll]

Excellent point. Families split up at Disney ALL THE TIME. When members are too short they split up to do Rider Switch or different activities, when members have different likes they split up to do different rides, I've seen plenty on here that split up to eat at different locations based on likes or levels of meal, families split up cause some want to ride or shop or see a show or visit a character and others don't. We all stay together at hotel, we eat most our meals together, we ride to parks and enter together (although some trips we have split up and gone to different parks, meeting later in day). Do some do every single thing together? Yes. But the argument that Disney vacation means no one every parts way so they can't be apart doesn't work.

We actually do, but I get that that might not be normal for most people, and you are right. Splitting up occasionally I think is perfectly reasonable.

However, I don't think that family groups that split into smaller parties is the same at all as a disabled person using RS all day.

In the first scenario, you are talking about a larger group voluntarily splitting into multiple smaller groups or an individual voluntarily going off to experience one or two things before rejoined the group. That isn't equivalent to one person being forcibly excluded from the group for every ride. If they can have someone with them, I'm fine with that. Different people from the group can take turns waiting with them, it doesn't have to be the whole party. As you pointed out, you don't have to be with the whole party all day. I think as long as they can have one person, so they don't have to wait alone, that would be a fair compromise.

 

[starlite_]

That's not really my point. What if Disney changed the DAS so only the DAS holder and possibly 1 other person could wait outside the line. The rest of the group would have to go through the standby line, so you could RS. You don't think all the people that still qualify now wouldn't be upset if they had to be separated for every line.

The average number of rides per day at Disney is 9 at an average wait time of 36 minutes, that's 5 and half hours of waiting vs a little over 1 hour of riding together. Yes, you can spend time together outside of rides, but I don't think people should be forced to spend half or more of their vacation apart, and if we say well just do other stuff, then why did I come to Disney? I can take a cheaper vacation somewhere else if I'm just going to eat out, shop, and enjoy the resorts.

From my understanding Disney (and any other theme park) is only required to provide accommodations to the guest with disabilities. That they go above that and allow others (4 before, 2 now if we agree that the DAS guest should be allowed a carer) is another thing imo.

Every single other place were I've been with someone that requires accommodations they've only ever allowed 1-2 extra people with them and if you have more family members or other people in your group they are required to line up normally.

 

[Disneychick13]

The fact that universal and similiar can set up a third party to look at evidence seems to suggest that the law is not that clear cut. I know theres lawsuits ongoing, but there's no way they made that move without checking if it was feasibly allowed.

But anyway, my point is less "they should ask for evidence" and more that it does not make sense "they shouldn't ask for evidence cos its easily forged". People aren't forging evidence en masse anywhere else. Laws, CM's not being trained for it, etc, are seperate issues, yes.

There is nothing in the law that would prohibit a theme park for requiring documentation for a service that provides a benefit greater than that able to be obtained by a patron (either at all or through a paid system). For Disney, the DAS user (and the people attached to that user’s profile for which most of them are not eligible for any accommodations) get accommodations (or benefits) that aren’t able to be obtained by anyone else (even via a paid system since it could be credibly argued that in its current form DAS is a better system than genie+). I can’t understand why the first step for any of these theme parks wouldn’t be verifying that the applicant has a qualifying disability.( I think the system in place at universal and six flags is subpar.) A good verification process with audits built into it and lifetime penalties for providing false information should weed out a good percentage of fakers (if you know that say 10% of applications will be audited then you are taking a big risk for submitting fake information). So then you would be left with people that have verified conditions and can look at real solutions that don’t just rely on diagnosis alone ( because just from this thread we can see that it is more complicated than that). IDK maybe this new process at Disney will at least provide proof of concept that a different way of approaching accommodations is viable. But without requiring any kind of documentation of disabilities I fear (as others have said) that people will still abuse it.

 

[Evita_W]

From my understanding Disney (and any other theme park) is only required to provide accommodations to the guest with disabilities. That they go above that and allow others (4 before, 2 now if we agree that the DAS guest should be allowed a carer) is another thing imo.

Every single other place were I've been with someone that requires accommodations they've only ever allowed 1-2 extra people with them and if you have more family members or other people in your group they are required to line up normally.

All Cedar Fair Parks allow the person with a disability and up to 3 additional people. They do not allow extras for immediate family either though.

 

[OurBigTrip]

That's not really my point. What if Disney changed the DAS so only the DAS holder and possibly 1 other person could wait outside the line. The rest of the group would have to go through the standby line, so you could RS. You don't think all the people that still qualify now wouldn't be upset if they had to be separated for every line.

The average number of rides per day at Disney is 9 at an average wait time of 36 minutes, that's 5 and half hours of waiting vs a little over 1 hour of riding together. Yes, you can spend time together outside of rides, but I don't think people should be forced to spend half or more of their vacation apart, and if we say well just do other stuff, then why did I come to Disney? I can take a cheaper vacation somewhere else if I'm just going to eat out, shop, and enjoy the resorts.

My point was the claim that parties would be split up for 82% of the day, which unless one does all day long, start to finish is ride attractions, is not correct.

Once Disney lays out the accommodations, people will make that choice - if it doesn’t give them an experience they feel is worth the cost, they’ll go elsewhere.

 

[starlite_]

Not every operational change Disney makes is legal, they have lost plenty of times, it just gets buried or settled out of court before the loss becomes official. For example, this is why there are crates for service animals at the attractions that service animals can't ride. Additionally, this is why Disney no longer requires proof for disabilities. Back in the 90s, Disney did require proof to get what was called back then a Disability Access Pass (DAP for short) and someone was in the line for Indiana Jones at Disneyland and fell because of their disability that they didn't have proof of. Now this is the sad part, people just walked over and some even stepped on the person. The person and their family sued Disney and the courts ordered them to stop requiring proof. Of course this was a person who was playing by the rules, there were many places around Disney where you could get a doctor's note for $5 to $20 that advertised "beat the lines". The Internet was still in its infancy at that point, so there aren't a lot of people that were aware of this. Many who had annual passes and disabilities became aware of it slowly, usually by talking to others. DH only found out about to by talking to a family member of the person it happened to.

At WOC, Disney tried to move all wheelchair seating to the back, DH made a video showing that it was not equal to the views they used to be able to get, sent it to Disney and their legal team reviewed it, agreed and readjusted the seating because the move was a policy change and was not legal as a result.l since it resulted in poorer views.

So no, not every change Disney makes is legal.

"Back in the 90s" 25 years ago maybe Disney wasn't as careful. But do you honestly think that after the GAC lawsuit they didn't learn anything and didn't have their army of lawyers comb thru their new policies with a Barbie doll brush???