Car shopping tips

erin1715

DIS Veteran
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
My husband and I both drive older cars. He drives a 2000 Honda Accord with about 170k miles on it and I drive a 2000 Toyota Sienna with the same mileage, approx 170k.

We've recently had a few things to be repaired in both. We would love to drive them until they die but we also don't want to be nickel and dimed by them. Our mechanic told us that the Honda will need a new timing belt by the end of summer ($400-$600), along with a few other belts that need replacing for about $20/each. Well, the check engine light came on today in my husband's Honda. He drives about 70 miles roundtrip to work Mon-Fri and we live in upstate NY with harsh winters, so we would like to get him a reliable vehicle with AWD but aren't looking to spend $30k on a brand new vehicle.

We have had good luck with Toyotas and Hondas so we'd prefer to stick with those, and so we're looking at a Rav4 or CRV. We are not hagglers (at least not face to face) so I'm wondering if anyone has any tips for car shopping. I'm willing to try to negotiate via email if thats possible. I'm also not a Costco member but we do have a Sams Club locally.

We're willing to travel up to 100 miles for a vehicle.

Sorry this is so long!

Any tips when shopping around?
 
I've owned well over 80 cars...really. Most were used, but some were new, and many bought at new car dealers. As I've mentioned in other auto related threads, they're my professional life and personal hobby.

First, all the things you describe with your current cars are nothing more than routine maintenance that all cars need. So I really wouldn't call that nickel and diming. Keeping the car you own is always cheaper than buying new. A check engine light is also no big deal. Have it checked...most places will do it for free. It could be so many different things, and often it's a very simple fix. Wouldn't scare me at all. The Accord and Sienna are two of the most reliable cars on the planet, so 170k wouldn't worry me.

Having said all that, if you want a new car because you want a new car, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I change cars often, very often. I have two cars right now, neither of which I've had for a year (9 months and 2 months respectively). I change cars simply because I get bored fairly quickly, or am trying to satisfy certain wants/needs.

Not a fan of small SUVs...or most SUVs for that matter, they're just sedans on stilts and don't really do anything better than the cars they're based on. The RAV4 is a Corolla and the CRV is a Civic. They're both incredibly reliable, but you'd be better off with the sedans. Again, unless you want the SUV because you like the design/style. That's purely subjective and nothing at all wrong with that. People buy cars all the time for those reasons.

As for shopping, absolutely you can negotiate via e-mail or phone. You've got to let the dealer know you're serious and not just kicking tires, but you absolutely can do it. They'll probably want to talk to you at some point or other, but 90% can be done via e-mail. I've bought many cars that way. Here's what I'd suggest. Go to the local Honda and Toyota dealer. Test drive the RAV4 and CRV. Kick the tires, poke around, really decide what you like. Once you do that, than the world is your oyster. Why limit yourself to a 100 mile radius? Shop all across the country. Go to places like Autotrader or Cars.com and search for new CRVs or whatever you pick. You can sort your search by price. Find the cheapest dealers in the country and start making them bid against each other until you get it as low as it'll go (whomever is the last one "standing"). If you can save $3000 by purchasing a car 800 miles away instead of buying it 50 miles away, wouldn't that be awesome? It'll only cost you $800 or so to ship the car in. The dealer can even help you do that. Your net savings will be $2200. If it's a brand new car, does it really matter where it came from? It's brand new, so there's no worries about condition. I do it all the time with used cars, but I wouldn't recommend it for a novice. But new cars, absolutely. The car I bought just a few months ago was used. I live in GA, but I bought it in IL and had it shipped here. Saved a ton of money. The new cars we've bought have almost never been from a local dealer. We've saved thousands...we bought a minivan new when we lived in PA. Local dealers wouldn't go below $22k. Found it in very rural VA for $17k. $500 for shipping and I pocketed the $4500 savings.

I know it sounds like a lot to wrap your mind around, but it's really quite easy, especially for new cars.

Good luck!
 
Thank you Klayfish!

I searched this topic on the boards before I posted so I have seen your previous posts about this being your area of expertise. I appreciate all the knowledge that you've shared.

To be honest, we don't really want to get a new car. We'd much rather keep it going as long as we can with no car payment. So I think we will check out what the engine light is all about and go from there.

And the only reason we were looking at a small SUV is for the AWD aspect for winters. Do the sedan's you mentioned have AWD? I just assumed they did not but maybe I'm wrong.
 
I've owned well over 80 cars...really. Most were used, but some were new, and many bought at new car dealers. As I've mentioned in other auto related threads, they're my professional life and personal hobby.

First, all the things you describe with your current cars are nothing more than routine maintenance that all cars need. So I really wouldn't call that nickel and diming. Keeping the car you own is always cheaper than buying new. A check engine light is also no big deal. Have it checked...most places will do it for free. It could be so many different things, and often it's a very simple fix. Wouldn't scare me at all. The Accord and Sienna are two of the most reliable cars on the planet, so 170k wouldn't worry me.

Having said all that, if you want a new car because you want a new car, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I change cars often, very often. I have two cars right now, neither of which I've had for a year (9 months and 2 months respectively). I change cars simply because I get bored fairly quickly, or am trying to satisfy certain wants/needs.

Not a fan of small SUVs...or most SUVs for that matter, they're just sedans on stilts and don't really do anything better than the cars they're based on. The RAV4 is a Corolla and the CRV is a Civic. They're both incredibly reliable, but you'd be better off with the sedans. Again, unless you want the SUV because you like the design/style. That's purely subjective and nothing at all wrong with that. People buy cars all the time for those reasons.

As for shopping, absolutely you can negotiate via e-mail or phone. You've got to let the dealer know you're serious and not just kicking tires, but you absolutely can do it. They'll probably want to talk to you at some point or other, but 90% can be done via e-mail. I've bought many cars that way. Here's what I'd suggest. Go to the local Honda and Toyota dealer. Test drive the RAV4 and CRV. Kick the tires, poke around, really decide what you like. Once you do that, than the world is your oyster. Why limit yourself to a 100 mile radius? Shop all across the country. Go to places like Autotrader or Cars.com and search for new CRVs or whatever you pick. You can sort your search by price. Find the cheapest dealers in the country and start making them bid against each other until you get it as low as it'll go (whomever is the last one "standing"). If you can save $3000 by purchasing a car 800 miles away instead of buying it 50 miles away, wouldn't that be awesome? It'll only cost you $800 or so to ship the car in. The dealer can even help you do that. Your net savings will be $2200. If it's a brand new car, does it really matter where it came from? It's brand new, so there's no worries about condition. I do it all the time with used cars, but I wouldn't recommend it for a novice. But new cars, absolutely. The car I bought just a few months ago was used. I live in GA, but I bought it in IL and had it shipped here. Saved a ton of money. The new cars we've bought have almost never been from a local dealer. We've saved thousands...we bought a minivan new when we lived in PA. Local dealers wouldn't go below $22k. Found it in very rural VA for $17k. $500 for shipping and I pocketed the $4500 savings.

I know it sounds like a lot to wrap your mind around, but it's really quite easy, especially for new cars.

Good luck!
I've owned well over 80 cars...really. Most were used, but some were new, and many bought at new car dealers. As I've mentioned in other auto related threads, they're my professional life and personal hobby.

First, all the things you describe with your current cars are nothing more than routine maintenance that all cars need. So I really wouldn't call that nickel and diming. Keeping the car you own is always cheaper than buying new. A check engine light is also no big deal. Have it checked...most places will do it for free. It could be so many different things, and often it's a very simple fix. Wouldn't scare me at all. The Accord and Sienna are two of the most reliable cars on the planet, so 170k wouldn't worry me.

Having said all that, if you want a new car because you want a new car, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I change cars often, very often. I have two cars right now, neither of which I've had for a year (9 months and 2 months respectively). I change cars simply because I get bored fairly quickly, or am trying to satisfy certain wants/needs.

Not a fan of small SUVs...or most SUVs for that matter, they're just sedans on stilts and don't really do anything better than the cars they're based on. The RAV4 is a Corolla and the CRV is a Civic. They're both incredibly reliable, but you'd be better off with the sedans. Again, unless you want the SUV because you like the design/style. That's purely subjective and nothing at all wrong with that. People buy cars all the time for those reasons.

As for shopping, absolutely you can negotiate via e-mail or phone. You've got to let the dealer know you're serious and not just kicking tires, but you absolutely can do it. They'll probably want to talk to you at some point or other, but 90% can be done via e-mail. I've bought many cars that way. Here's what I'd suggest. Go to the local Honda and Toyota dealer. Test drive the RAV4 and CRV. Kick the tires, poke around, really decide what you like. Once you do that, than the world is your oyster. Why limit yourself to a 100 mile radius? Shop all across the country. Go to places like Autotrader or Cars.com and search for new CRVs or whatever you pick. You can sort your search by price. Find the cheapest dealers in the country and start making them bid against each other until you get it as low as it'll go (whomever is the last one "standing"). If you can save $3000 by purchasing a car 800 miles away instead of buying it 50 miles away, wouldn't that be awesome? It'll only cost you $800 or so to ship the car in. The dealer can even help you do that. Your net savings will be $2200. If it's a brand new car, does it really matter where it came from? It's brand new, so there's no worries about condition. I do it all the time with used cars, but I wouldn't recommend it for a novice. But new cars, absolutely. The car I bought just a few months ago was used. I live in GA, but I bought it in IL and had it shipped here. Saved a ton of money. The new cars we've bought have almost never been from a local dealer. We've saved thousands...we bought a minivan new when we lived in PA. Local dealers wouldn't go below $22k. Found it in very rural VA for $17k. $500 for shipping and I pocketed the $4500 savings.

I know it sounds like a lot to wrap your mind around, but it's really quite easy, especially for new cars.

Good luck!
Question...When you say ship a car in, how can you buy a car that you haven't test driven?
 


Thank you Klayfish!

I searched this topic on the boards before I posted so I have seen your previous posts about this being your area of expertise. I appreciate all the knowledge that you've shared.

To be honest, we don't really want to get a new car. We'd much rather keep it going as long as we can with no car payment. So I think we will check out what the engine light is all about and go from there.

And the only reason we were looking at a small SUV is for the AWD aspect for winters. Do the sedan's you mentioned have AWD? I just assumed they did not but maybe I'm wrong.

Glad I could help. In reading my post again, it didn't come out like I wanted it to...hate to make it sound like I'm bragging, and that's how it came out. But I love to help with car topics. There's a lot I don't know...just ask DW, she'll confirm that :D...but cars are one thing I know.

Like I said, nothing at all wrong with wanting a small SUV, they're very nice vehicles. No, the Civic and Corolla aren't made in AWD. I know a lot of people feel like they need AWD to get through winter, but the reality is you don't. AWD certainly won't hurt you, but it's not a necessity, perhaps except for the most truly extreme environments. For your typical urban/suburban northern winter, front wheel drive and a good set of all season tires are all you need. If you can get snow tires, even better, but not needed. FWD cars do great in bad weather. If you want an AWD small sedan, Subaru would be the first place I'd look. Like I said, you certainly won't go wrong getting an AWD RAV4, but you likely don't "need" it. Go check out the RAV4 and CRV and see what you think of them, can't hurt. Also look at the Mazda CX series and Hyundai/Kia offerings.


Question...When you say ship a car in, how can you buy a car that you haven't test driven?

For a new car, it's really easy. Since it's brand new, it will drive exactly the same as the one you test drive at your local dealer, so you don't really need to test drive the one being shipped in. For a used car, the concept is similar. I'll locally test drive the same make/model as what I'm interested in, to make sure I like it in general. If I do, then I just know what questions to ask the dealer who is far away. Get pictures, etc... From there, it does involve some type of "leap of faith", but I've done it at least a dozen times and haven't gone wrong yet. Doing it for a used car isn't something I'd recommend for a non-car person. But for buying a new car, there's really nothing to lose. It's brand new, so it should be in perfect condition, and it has a warranty.
 


We used cargurus.com to find our car. They show you in a column if the car is a bad/good/great deal. That way, you won't feel the need to haggle when you go in knowing it's a great deal. I found a 2013 Prius in town with 85k for $11,000 out the door. My bank congratulated me on finding a car for that price, considering the value was at $14,000. I could total the car and walk away with a profit. So, I loved the website. It was intuitive, helpful and saved me time from looking at KBB every time I wanted to look at a car to make sure the price was reasonable.
 
@Klayfish - please explain exactly how you go about shipping a new car from a dealer 1000s of miles away.

In the past, I've always played the "email bidding game" with dealers up to 3 hours away and was happy with the results. I would love to include dealers from all over the country to save even more money.

Thanks for any insight you can provide.
 
We used cargurus.com to find our car. They show you in a column if the car is a bad/good/great deal. That way, you won't feel the need to haggle when you go in knowing it's a great deal. I found a 2013 Prius in town with 85k for $11,000 out the door. My bank congratulated me on finding a car for that price, considering the value was at $14,000. I could total the car and walk away with a profit. So, I loved the website. It was intuitive, helpful and saved me time from looking at KBB every time I wanted to look at a car to make sure the price was reasonable.

Thank you for sharing. This site is incredible!

ETA: How do you like the prius? I may be looking into one for myself once my Sienna dies.
 
OP good luck.

I hate car shopping,I would rather walk on hot coals,lol.
 
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Thank you for sharing. This site is incredible!

ETA: How do you like the prius? I may be looking into one for myself once my Sienna dies.

I LOVE the Prius. Great gas mileage, quiet, and I love having a hatch back. It's been so helpful to have space while we were moving and buying things for our new town home. The only negative is that it still get caught by surprise when the engine turns off when I'm sitting still. I'm not used to that happening, but it just means the car is saving energy which makes me happy!
 
@Klayfish - please explain exactly how you go about shipping a new car from a dealer 1000s of miles away.

In the past, I've always played the "email bidding game" with dealers up to 3 hours away and was happy with the results. I would love to include dealers from all over the country to save even more money.

Thanks for any insight you can provide.

Really, it's no different than what you describe. The dealers just happen to be farther away. I'll go to Autotrader and do a nationwide search for the make and model of the car. It'll likely give you several thousand results if you're shopping for a car as common as a Toyota or Honda. So I'll sort by price, lowest first. Grab the first number (4, 5, however many) and read through the ads. Make sure there is no fine print with the ad like "Price includes $5k down and a pinky swear". If it doesn't, then I'll send a feeler out to the dealer. In that e-mail, I make it clear that I'm not kicking tires, I'm really shopping for a car. I also disclose where I live, I want to be upfront about that. You may find a handful of dealers that don't want to do business out of state, but 95% will. From there, again I'm upfront. I'll tell them that I'm not afraid to buy anywhere in the country and am looking for the best deal. Maybe tell them what other offers there are, even if it's a dealer 500 miles from them. See what their response is. It can be as much work as planning a WDW trip....:teeth:...but to me it's well worth it. And since I love cars, it's fun for me. When shopping, make sure you ask what the dealer doc/prep fees are, as they will vary very widely. Some places charge $200 or less, some are $1000, so you have to factor that into the price (that's true if you buy locally or long distance).

Prices for cars can really vary by region, so shopping all over really pays off. I'll give you my most recent example...it's for a used car, but same concept applies. I just bought a Mazda Miata a few months ago...I've had many of them before, so I knew exactly what I was looking for. Well, I live in Atlanta. It's warm here nearly year round, prices stay higher. I had been searching casually for a few months, sort of just poking around. There was a Miata in IL that looked precisely like one I had before, same year, color, trim, etc... The price was lower than local, but not enough to make it worthwhile. However, January became early February and that Miata had been on their lot since June (I could tell from the Carfax). It costs dealers money to have a car sit on their lot. So I started pushing them...said "Hey, it's been on your lot 6+ months. It's winter in Illinois, you know you're going to sit on that car until at least April or May". They resisted at first, but a week or two later they said "Fine, just get it out of here and off our lot". Got it for $2500 or more less than what local dealers wanted. Shipping was $500. Very happy with the car.

Places like Cargurus or Truecar aren't bad, but they won't get you truly the best deal. Your deal won't be a bad one for sure, but it won't be the very best one either. To get that, you have to do your own legwork.

I had a Prius. It was the ultimate love/hate relationship. It is so incredibly good at the mission it was built to do. Get you from point A to point B reliably, comfortably, quietly and efficiently. Darn good at it. I had a ton of respect for that. But I despised the way the car drove. Felt like a 1980's video game, and it made our minivan feel like a sports car. Handling was horrid, just awful. Many non hybrids can get really good gas mileage, so the Prius just wasn't worth it. I got about 40mpg, maybe 42mpg, in a mix of 80mph highway running and stop and go rush hour gridlock. I get mid-30's with my Hyundai Elantra. Certainly not exactly the same, but when you figure out the extra gas cost, it's only a few dollars and worth every penny to me to not have to drive the Prius.
 
One other quick thing I'll add is that it costs dealers to keep new cars on their lot just like it does a used one. Sure, you can "order" a car from a dealer, but you'll pay for it. For a common car like Honda or Toyota, dealers usually have dozens and dozens of them on their lot. Find one that the dealer has had on their lot for a long time (assuming it's a color you want, etc...). You'll get a smoking deal on that car, because they want it gone.
 
Really, it's no different than what you describe. The dealers just happen to be farther away. I'll go to Autotrader and do a nationwide search for the make and model of the car. It'll likely give you several thousand results if you're shopping for a car as common as a Toyota or Honda. So I'll sort by price, lowest first. Grab the first number (4, 5, however many) and read through the ads. Make sure there is no fine print with the ad like "Price includes $5k down and a pinky swear". If it doesn't, then I'll send a feeler out to the dealer. In that e-mail, I make it clear that I'm not kicking tires, I'm really shopping for a car. I also disclose where I live, I want to be upfront about that. You may find a handful of dealers that don't want to do business out of state, but 95% will. From there, again I'm upfront. I'll tell them that I'm not afraid to buy anywhere in the country and am looking for the best deal. Maybe tell them what other offers there are, even if it's a dealer 500 miles from them. See what their response is. It can be as much work as planning a WDW trip....:teeth:...but to me it's well worth it. And since I love cars, it's fun for me. When shopping, make sure you ask what the dealer doc/prep fees are, as they will vary very widely. Some places charge $200 or less, some are $1000, so you have to factor that into the price (that's true if you buy locally or long distance).

Prices for cars can really vary by region, so shopping all over really pays off. I'll give you my most recent example...it's for a used car, but same concept applies. I just bought a Mazda Miata a few months ago...I've had many of them before, so I knew exactly what I was looking for. Well, I live in Atlanta. It's warm here nearly year round, prices stay higher. I had been searching casually for a few months, sort of just poking around. There was a Miata in IL that looked precisely like one I had before, same year, color, trim, etc... The price was lower than local, but not enough to make it worthwhile. However, January became early February and that Miata had been on their lot since June (I could tell from the Carfax). It costs dealers money to have a car sit on their lot. So I started pushing them...said "Hey, it's been on your lot 6+ months. It's winter in Illinois, you know you're going to sit on that car until at least April or May". They resisted at first, but a week or two later they said "Fine, just get it out of here and off our lot". Got it for $2500 or more less than what local dealers wanted. Shipping was $500. Very happy with the car.

Places like Cargurus or Truecar aren't bad, but they won't get you truly the best deal. Your deal won't be a bad one for sure, but it won't be the very best one either. To get that, you have to do your own legwork.

I had a Prius. It was the ultimate love/hate relationship. It is so incredibly good at the mission it was built to do. Get you from point A to point B reliably, comfortably, quietly and efficiently. Darn good at it. I had a ton of respect for that. But I despised the way the car drove. Felt like a 1980's video game, and it made our minivan feel like a sports car. Handling was horrid, just awful. Many non hybrids can get really good gas mileage, so the Prius just wasn't worth it. I got about 40mpg, maybe 42mpg, in a mix of 80mph highway running and stop and go rush hour gridlock. I get mid-30's with my Hyundai Elantra. Certainly not exactly the same, but when you figure out the extra gas cost, it's only a few dollars and worth every penny to me to not have to drive the Prius.

I wouldn't mind doing the leg work to find a good deal, but I think what I'm most concerned with is sometimes the dealers are shady, right? Like locally, and maybe its me, but there are dealers that I trust more than others. I guess I've just always bought from a larger dealer so I feel like they are more reputable. If you shop nationwide for a car, how do you know you aren't getting a lemon from a crappy local dealer?

As for the Prius, it sounds right up my ally lol. I drive slow and am rarely in a hurry to get anywhere. I work about 10 miles from where I live. I would definitely test drive one though first to see how I like it. Just something to think about...

I also am weary of Hyundai and Kia's. They used to get a bad rap, but I have heard they're better than they used to be....so I don't know.
 
One other quick thing I'll add is that it costs dealers to keep new cars on their lot just like it does a used one. Sure, you can "order" a car from a dealer, but you'll pay for it. For a common car like Honda or Toyota, dealers usually have dozens and dozens of them on their lot. Find one that the dealer has had on their lot for a long time (assuming it's a color you want, etc...). You'll get a smoking deal on that car, because they want it gone.

We are not picky with cars at all as far as appearance goes. As long as it's not a neon bright color, then I don't care. You can find how long a car's been on the lot through Carfax?
 
I wouldn't mind doing the leg work to find a good deal, but I think what I'm most concerned with is sometimes the dealers are shady, right? Like locally, and maybe its me, but there are dealers that I trust more than others. I guess I've just always bought from a larger dealer so I feel like they are more reputable. If you shop nationwide for a car, how do you know you aren't getting a lemon from a crappy local dealer?

As for the Prius, it sounds right up my ally lol. I drive slow and am rarely in a hurry to get anywhere. I work about 10 miles from where I live. I would definitely test drive one though first to see how I like it. Just something to think about...

I also am weary of Hyundai and Kia's. They used to get a bad rap, but I have heard they're better than they used to be....so I don't know.

Sure, there are slimy dealers out there, but you'll be able to sniff them out really quickly. I definitely don't think larger ones are more reputable than smaller ones. I'm talking about franchise dealers (Ford, Chevy, Honda, etc....), not the mom & pop lots. Mom & pop lots have much more room to be extra shady, I avoid buying far away from them. But franchise dealers can be good or bad, not necessarily by size. If they're bad, it's obvious...they'll give you a lot of obvious stereotypical car sales pitches. The better ones are much calmer, more respectful and just treat you like a regular person. If you're buying a brand new car, there's no worry about getting a lemon. It's brand new, fresh from the factory. Think of going to buy a hair dryer from Wal-Mart. Does it matter which Wal-Mart store you buy it from? It's new in the box. Same for a new car. The only real variable is the deal you're getting. Always, always ask the dealer for your final, out the door price and ask them to send you the break down of that final cost. If they balk or give you sales talk, walk away. To me, sales talk is something like "Don't worry about final price, how much do you want your monthly payment to be?". You'll know shady when you see it.

Do not write off Hyundai/Kia. You're thinking of the cars they built when they entered the American market in the mid-80s. Those were pretty bad cars. They have come an amazingly long way since that time. Their quality is now on par with Honda and Toyota. The cars are also very competitive in their class. Their big selling point is value. They offer more for your dollar. They're actually starting to even move upmarket. They now have cars that are $80k or more, and are darn good ones. They're worth a look. Both DW and I drive Hyundai/Kia products. I abuse mine...120 miles round trip per day. We've had the Kia minivan for 10+ years and raised 3 kids with them and have never once had any issue with it. Don't forget, Honda and Toyota made pretty poor cars when they entered the market here, but it's been so long ago everyone forgot about it. Conversely, Lincoln and Cadillac used to build premiere cars...now they're fairly awful. Things change quickly in the car market.
 
I start out with the car buying services and then haggle the price from there through email (I do not go into the dealership until I sign for the car). I am in an area that I can put four dealerships against each other to try to bring down the price. When I get close to the end of my dealings with the dealers I might switch to an OTD (out the door) price because that can help bring down the price as well. My last car I bought I was able to get 27% off MSRP. If you can, look for high volume dealers because you can get a better price with them.

FYI, you can also start with true car value and not a car buying service. Just go to the true car value site find out the price and start emailing dealerships. Happy Haggling!
 
We live in metro Atlanta, so we have numerous dealerships around us. We just figure out what we want, and then start dealing with the internet sales departments of the dealerships. Know what you want to pay, and use the dealers against each other.

I purchased a Honda Odyssey touring elite from one local dealer for the same price as the other Honda dealers would sell me a touring model. And at the time, the difference in price of the two models was about $6000.

When the dealers tell you they can't match a price, you know you are about as low as you will be able to buy it for. Except maybe out of state, but I won't buy a car without test driving it. When you have to use the lemon law on a vehicle, you become very picky.

We just purchased our 16 year old a Toyota rav 4 sport. We went to the dealership over Labor Day when they were having a sale. We found the SUV he wanted and the dealer gave us a drive out pice of $5000 below sticker, which is unheard of for us when buying a Toyota. It wasn't the color he wanted, so another metro Atlanta dealership matched the price without even haggling.
 
ALWAYS drive a car before you buy it. I mean the exact car. My mom once refused to buy a van in the color she wanted because after driving it she said something wasn't right. She drove and purchased an identically equipped van in a color she hated instead. When she took her van in for service, the dealership owner told her there was in fact something wrong with the van she refused to buy.
 

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