Burudika being eliminated

[rteetz]

You said it yourself, they do it every year. That is the reason I can't get too upset. Everybody worries about the performers, and I do too, but there are also people who have a paid job that are responsible for the entertainment. We have history that shows they change out acts "every year" all over the property. Yes, it may not be in spaces they took them from, but it seems to me they refresh it yearly because that is what they do. Didn't Walt want a constantly changing, adapting place? Sure don't want them to pull out the Safari or the restaurants. Changing the acts in the streets is one way to make the park look different from year to year. It does stink for the ones people like, but what about when they change the ones nobody likes?

Like I said I don’t mind changing acts. It’s taking entertainment away and then not adding anything back.

 

[Tigger's ally]

Like I said I don’t mind changing acts. It’s taking entertainment away and then not adding anything back.

yeah, if they don't add anything back, then will be the time, for me anyways, to determine it was strictly a cost saving move and not a normal refreshing of the park entertainment. Would be interesting to sit down and talk to the actual person in charge of these things to see the variables that affect their decisions. Does their budget run out two months before the fiscal end and they make decisions based on that? Is there a strategic "run length" for what they consider their A shows vs. their B and C shows? Do the performers themselves wreak havoc like losing two key members of a band or do they ever make demands (wonder if Off Kilter's following led them to want more $$ or something)? Questions like that would be neat to get an answer too.

 

[peteykirch]

Having live music in the center of Harambe was one of the things that made it feel like a living and breathing town.

It's one thing if Disney wants to bring a new act in to replace one that has been there for ages. It's another if they are just getting rid of live entertainment as a whole.

Knowing Disney they will throw a DJ there and just blast Radio Disney like they do in Dinoland.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

Like I said I don’t mind changing acts. It’s taking entertainment away and then not adding anything back.

The problem is that it's really, really difficult to tell, so that's a tough statement to make. They make take an act away from next to Dawa, but add one over by Ziwani. Do we consider that not adding anything back? There could be 1000 different reasons for it and it's not JUST refreshing the park. It could be changing the flow of traffic to balance the crowds. It could do with lighting, resources, or seating. They could be trying to drive traffic into specific shopping areas. It could be that they have future plans for that area and are clearing it out slowly to make room. We just don't know.

So the only way you can really make the determination that it was cost cutting and removing without giving back would be to track the total number of street shows across the complex at any one time - again factoring in that there may be a few months of transitional work (it's not as simple as saying stop one day and go the next). So really even that only counts as an over time metric. This entire equation gets further complex when you remember that Disney is not a park, but many. It may even be that they want to balance crowds between parks, and street shows ARE a crowd draw and can influence park crowds.

We COULD determine that it was cost-cutting, but I am going to have to say in this example.... give me the math to prove it. And show your work.
Otherwise, i am going to assume this is park refresh.

 

[rteetz]

The problem is that it's really, really difficult to tell, so that's a tough statement to make. They make take an act away from next to Dawa, but add one over by Ziwani. Do we consider that not adding anything back? There could be 1000 different reasons for it and it's not JUST refreshing the park. It could be changing the flow of traffic to balance the crowds. It could do with lighting, resources, or seating. They could be trying to drive traffic into specific shopping areas. It could be that they have future plans for that area and are clearing it out slowly to make room. We just don't know.

So the only way you can really make the determination that it was cost cutting and removing without giving back would be to track the total number of street shows across the complex at any one time - again factoring in that there may be a few months of transitional work (it's not as simple as saying stop one day and go the next). So really even that only counts as an over time metric. This entire equation gets further complex when you remember that Disney is not a park, but many. It may even be that they want to balance crowds between parks, and street shows ARE a crowd draw and can influence park crowds.

We COULD determine that it was cost-cutting, but I am going to have to say in this example.... give me the math to prove it. And show your work.
Otherwise, i am going to assume this is park refresh.

Disney cuts entertainment at the end of the fiscal year to help the bottom line. Fiscal year ends at the end of the month. So this isn’t really a refresh. They may add something back but it won’t be for a little bit to save that money. If this wasn’t a yearly thing in September then I would agree it’s a refresh but it’s a yearly thing to save on the bottom line.

 

[anthony2k7]

Dont get me started! I still haven't forgiven disney for cutting Four 4 a dollar!!!

 

[TiggerBouncy]

Disney cuts entertainment at the end of the fiscal year to help the bottom line. Fiscal year ends at the end of the month. So this isn’t really a refresh. They may add something back but it won’t be for a little bit to save that money. If this wasn’t a yearly thing in September then I would agree it’s a refresh but it’s a yearly thing to save on the bottom line.

I still call no way without seeing your work. Here is why.

A musician for WDW earns 55K annum. Figuring what... 4 people? that's 220K annum. Assuming they only take 3 months between replacing acts, that's a savings of what? 60K max for an act?

Procurement and setup of a new street act, changing all the literature, marketing and relations, payroll, logistics, lighting, etc must easily cost 60K if not more. AT BEST I would bet that the logistics of changing out a musical street act all inclusive is an even swap for them budget-wise (and if you are talking street performers, you can forget it - the equation of forming a new act is a significant loss over the wages saved).

On top of that, Last year, Disney Parks and Resorts had an operating expense of 10.5 BILLION Dollars (I couldn't find the breakout for just WDW or for Animal Kingdom for example in their public filings). Even if you assumed it cost Disney NOTHING logistically - and that's just not feasible - and they did that with say 6 acts - that's only 360K out of 10.5 billion. that's like .00000000065% of the budget. That's not even measurable and as I mentioned, those numbers are ENTIRELY unrealistic.

The logistics of running a park say that the only logical reason for changing out acts is park refresh. I cannot imagine in any way that it's a money-saving venture unless they go a good 5 months, and then they have different problems altogether.

 

[rteetz]

I still call no way without seeing your work. Here is why.

A musician for WDW earns 55K annum. Figuring what... 4 people? that's 220K annum. Assuming they only take 3 months between replacing acts, that's a savings of what? 60K max for an act?

Procurement and setup of a new street act, changing all the literature, marketing and relations, payroll, logistics, lighting, etc must easily cost 60K if not more. AT BEST I would bet that the logistics of changing out a musical street act all inclusive is an even swap for them budget-wise (and if you are talking street performers, you can forget it - the equation of forming a new act is a significant loss over the wages saved).

On top of that, Last year, Disney Parks and Resorts had an operating expense of 10.5 BILLION Dollars (I couldn't find the breakout for just WDW or for Animal Kingdom for example in their public filings). Even if you assumed it cost Disney NOTHING logistically - and that's just not feasible - and they did that with say 6 acts - that's only 360K out of 10.5 billion. that's like .00000000065% of the budget. That's not even measurable and as I mentioned, those numbers are ENTIRELY unrealistic.

The logistics of running a park say that the only logical reason for changing out acts is park refresh. I cannot imagine in any way that it's a money-saving venture unless they go a good 5 months, and then they have different problems altogether.

I don’t need to show work. I’m telling you why they are doing this. It’s rather simple. Each section of the Walt Disney company operates like its own smaller company. Think of entertainment as it down company. Each park has an entertainment budget and a bottom line they have to stay with. Every year in September entertainment acts are cut. They are the easiest cuts to make to save money at the start of the fiscal year.

On top of this several mid level management positions were also cut to save money. I’m look at the time of year and the historical context. It’s just the way it is for Disney. They’ve acted this way for years.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

I don’t need to show work. I’m telling you why they are doing this. It’s rather simple. Each section of the Walt Disney company operates like its own smaller company. Think of entertainment as it down company. Each park has an entertainment budget and a bottom line they have to stay with. Every year in September entertainment acts are cut. They are the easiest cuts to make to save money at the start of the fiscal year.

On top of this several mid level management positions were also cut to save money. I’m look at the time of year and the historical context. It’s just the way it is for Disney. They’ve acted this way for years.

I agree that they have historically made changes in September. I COULD agree that on the books, they are showing a lower operating cost for the end of year accounting. However, that's budget moronicy. It's something that is commonly done when preparing for a sale or a large finance change, but it would be sheer stupidity to do it on a regular basis for budgetary reasons.

Take those middle management cuts for example. It costs an estimated 6-9 months salary on average to replace an employee (Society for Human Resource Management). Some studies pin it at twice their salary (a few at slightly lower - as low as 33%). That means if they replace that manager after 3 months, they have LOST money over retaining them. Again, great when you want to sell because you are doing short-term accounting and not trying to leave the company in an operating condition. However for a company on a growth cycle, it's literally cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Now I have to tell you.... I am not the the best there is at what I do. I am a decent manager, but there are people better than I am. Point being, if I know this, I can guarantee you some of those really high payed people at Disney know it 1000 times better. How do I know they know this? Because Disney participated in these studies and they teach it at the Disney Institute.

For that reason, I HIGHLY DOUBT that they are doing this for purely budgetary reasons. That's a financial loss. You just can't convince me that a company who is recognized for their management training courses teaching the exact opposite of that plan is THAT STUPID. There are likely other reasons why they are trying them to year end. For example, not having to give out bonuses on managers who were going to be turned over anyway. this is the time that reviews are given, and that's when you typically let someone go. They are turning a new crew over and handing out promotions as well. I can think of dozens of reasons why the timing works out. Budget cuts are not one of them unless they truly believe they are over-staffed. And if that were the case, there would be no reason at all to wait for end of fiscal.

So I say to you again... Show me your work where you have determined that it's a money saving venture to cut people for a few months at year end. Because I have shown you mine that proves the opposite.

Reference:
https://www.peoplekeep.com/blog/bid/312123/employee-retention-the-real-cost-of-losing-an-employee
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/how-...rnover-really-cost_b_587fbaf9e4b0474ad4874fb7https://www.enrich.org/blog/The-true-cost-of-employee-turnover-financial-wellness-enrich

 

[rteetz]

I agree that they have historically made changes in September. I COULD agree that on the books, they are showing a lower operating cost for the end of year accounting. However, that's budget moronicy. It's something that is commonly done when preparing for a sale or a large finance change, but it would be sheer stupidity to do it on a regular basis for budgetary reasons.

Take those middle management cuts for example. It costs an estimated 6-9 months salary on average to replace an employee (Society for Human Resource Management). Some studies pin it at twice their salary (a few at slightly lower - as low as 33%). That means if they replace that manager after 3 months, they have LOST money over retaining them. Again, great when you want to sell because you are doing short-term accounting and not trying to leave the company in an operating condition. However for a company on a growth cycle, it's literally cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Now I have to tell you.... I am not the the best there is at what I do. I am a decent manager, but there are people better than I am. Point being, if I know this, I can guarantee you some of those really high payed people at Disney know it 1000 times better. How do I know they know this? Because Disney participated in these studies and they teach it at the Disney Institute.

For that reason, I HIGHLY DOUBT that they are doing this for purely budgetary reasons. That's a financial loss. You just can't convince me that a company who is recognized for their management training courses teaching the exact opposite of that plan is THAT STUPID. There are likely other reasons why they are trying them to year end. For example, not having to give out bonuses on managers who were going to be turned over anyway. this is the time that reviews are given, and that's when you typically let someone go. They are turning a new crew over and handing out promotions as well. I can think of dozens of reasons why the timing works out. Budget cuts are not one of them unless they truly believe they are over-staffed. And if that were the case, there would be no reason at all to wait for end of fiscal.

So I say to you again... Show me your work where you have determined that it's a money saving venture to cut people for a few months at year end. Because I have shown you mine that proves the opposite.

Reference:
https://www.peoplekeep.com/blog/bid/312123/employee-retention-the-real-cost-of-losing-an-employee
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/how-...rnover-really-cost_b_587fbaf9e4b0474ad4874fb7https://www.enrich.org/blog/The-true-cost-of-employee-turnover-financial-wellness-enrich

We will just agree to disagree then. I don’t feel I have to show you anymore than I have. You’re not going to change my mind and I’m not going to change yours so it is what it is.

I’m just sharing what I know about how the Disney company today operates. Entertainment remains the easiest thing to cut and it will continue to be that way. Each area of Disney operates in its own way under the Disney umbrella. Each division gets a budget and they have to use it accordingly.

Entertainment has seen changes within their “division” within the last year or two as well.

Parks and resorts also is the money maker for the company right now. They make up for other areas of the company that may underperform.

 

[pepperandchips]

I found this thread when I was googling Burudika to see if I could find any historical info about them. The liner notes from the Wassalou album say the band formed in "the village" (Harambe) in April 1998. Is Disney really cutting an opening day entertainment component?

Does anyone know whether Kora Tinga Tinga and the Karibu Sisters are still performing in DAK?

A musician for WDW earns 55K annum. Figuring what... 4 people? that's 220K annum. Assuming they only take 3 months between replacing acts, that's a savings of what? 60K max for an act?

It costs an estimated 6-9 months salary on average to replace an employee (Society for Human Resource Management). Some studies pin it at twice their salary (a few at slightly lower - as low as 33%). That means if they replace that manager after 3 months, they have LOST money over retaining them. Again, great when you want to sell because you are doing short-term accounting and not trying to leave the company in an operating condition. However for a company on a growth cycle, it's literally cutting off your nose to spite your face.

To me, the differences are that a.) I really doubt these performers are making $55k a year solely for the Burudika shows and b.) at least two entertainers that regularly perform with Burudika also perform elsewhere for WDW. The female vocalist also performs in the Festival of the Lion King as Kibibi and she has also performed as the main female vocalist (in the silver dress, I don't even know if that character has a name) in Mickey's Most Merriest Celebration during the MK Christmas Party. The sax player for Burudika also performs at Disney Springs. The main male vocalist for Burudika has his own solo act and has put out a few solo albums in the past. I would love to see the outcry get Burudika back on the times guide but the fan demand to bring back Mulch Sweat and Shears or Off Kilter went nowhere. I'm heartbroken as this was my favorite attraction in Animal Kingdom and I have visited the park multiple times to literally just see Burudika - I did so in August and didn't do any other attractions but I also bought a meal and a couple of beverages. Disney probably doesn't care about that lost revenue from me but I doubt I would go out of my way to see a replacement act.

I'm hoping Burudika gets renamed but the heart of the performance remains. I did notice that at some point between January and now they have gone from being listed on the WDW website as "Burudika" to "Harambe Village Street Band - Burudika" and as of right now their webpage is broken.

I'd still love to hear if anyone has the history and/or knows when Burudika started performing at DAK, particularly if they ever performed in the past under a different name...

 

[Canesfan3234]

How can you be so sure? The goal with these cuts is to save money. They aren’t replacing the muppets with a new show in liberty square I can guarantee that.

wait, great moments in history, BUT JUST THE AMERICAN PARTS, is GONE???? WHAT!!! This CAN NOT STAND

 

[TiggerBouncy]

We will just agree to disagree then. I don’t feel I have to show you anymore than I have. You’re not going to change my mind and I’m not going to change yours so it is what it is.

I’m just sharing what I know about how the Disney company today operates. Entertainment remains the easiest thing to cut and it will continue to be that way. Each area of Disney operates in its own way under the Disney umbrella. Each division gets a budget and they have to use it accordingly.

Entertainment has seen changes within their “division” within the last year or two as well.

Parks and resorts also is the money maker for the company right now. They make up for other areas of the company that may underperform.

Well..... alright. But is it okay if I still respect you? Or do we have to give each other ugly stares and move to opposite sides when we cross in the hallways?

 

[Delite]

Look at historical calendars. September has been filled with 1s. Historically it's a 4 or 6 crowd level. Either they overpriced families out or recession is coming. The news is banging the war drum on that front.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

Look at historical calendars. September has been filled with 1s. Historically it's a 4 or 6 crowd level. Either they overpriced families out or recession is coming. The news is banging the war drum on that front.

ummmm. Sorry. I feel like there was something that happened in September that might have had a small effect there. I can't remember exactly what it was.... but I know there was something.... On the tip of my tongue... Just can't quite put my finger on it.

 

[Delite]

The whole of September? Doubtful.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

The whole of September? Doubtful.

September is always a slow month with back to school.

They started locking down August 30th. It didn't really leave the area until September 8th. Plus I figure a lot of people with the uncertainly moved their vacations anyway. So I would not have expected it to pick up again until the 14th since most people don't ravel during the week.

Even with that, Hollywood Studios has been yellow - red the entire month (red monday, yellow yesterday).

I don't think Disney is in any trouble right now. Later in the year many of the hotels are booked solid.

 

[Spaghetti Cat]

I don't think that having loud music close to the animal enclosures is a very nice thing to do to the animals. I thought that band was great but I remember them having a little trouble keeping their hands off the volume knob. I don't know if you've ever been at a gathering where someone keeps turning it up because a song is the greatest and next thing you know you can't talk to anyone. Difficult to resist.

 

[rteetz]

Well..... alright. But is it okay if I still respect you? Or do we have to give each other ugly stares and move to opposite sides when we cross in the hallways?

We’re all good

 

[tinkerhon]

Dont get me started! I still haven't forgiven disney for cutting Four 4 a dollar!!!

Or Matt the juggler ! Or the hunchback show to begin with